Gay rights

[ThatGuy]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I just want a simple explanation of rights gays do not have that straight people have. That's all. Very simple.

The right to walk down the street or through the mall, holding hands with or kissing their significant other, without being stared at, ridiculed, and possibly attacked, either verbally or physically.

[Vision Garage]

My friend asked me this the other day at work.

DO YOU THINK PPL ARE BORN GAY OR IT IS A LIFE DECISION TO BECOME GAY?

Tell us what you think. I say that ppl are not born gay but BECOME gay from life experiences or from how they were raised.

[ThatGuy]

Originally Posted by Vision Garage

My friend asked me this the other day at work.

DO YOU THINK PPL ARE BORN GAY OR IT IS A LIFE DECISION TO BECOME GAY?

Tell us what you think. I say that ppl are not born gay but BECOME gay from life experiences or from how they were raised.

I believe it varies by individual. The same way straight people develop their "taste" for certain body types, hair color, personality, etc. In that right, I think it is as much a choice as a straight man choosing to talk that ONE girl in the group. It's just that in this situation, the guy would chose that one guy in the group to talk to.

Why do some people prefer blondes, redheads, brunettes, tall, short, skinny, etc, etc?

If you can come up with an accurate answer to that, then you should be able to accurately answer why some women prefer women over men, and some men prefer men over women.



Now, I think there can also be extenuating circumstances that help to "sway" some individuals. For example, it has been documented that some abused women have lost their trust of men through their abuse. As such, they are unable to feel intimate with a man, so they turn to other women.

So many factors to consider, and so many issues of the human psyche that we can't begin to understand as of yet.

But the thought process of so many people today seems to be... why try to understand anything, it's so much easier to ridicule and hate what we don't understand.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

The right to walk down the street or through the mall, holding hands with or kissing their significant other, without being stared at, ridiculed, and possibly attacked, either verbally or physically.

They have those rights already. You cant force someone not to stare at you. You cant force someone not to say things to you due to freedom of speech(although this is starting to change due to hate speech laws). However, it is against the law to be attacked physically wheather you are straight or gay, so you cant say that straights are protected and gays are not.

Eventually gays will be able to walk down the street hand in hand without feeling uneasy, but it will take time. It's not like flipping on a light switch. It just doesn't happen like that when it comes to social change.

[slothonaleash]

Originally Posted by Vision Garage

My friend asked me this the other day at work.

DO YOU THINK PPL ARE BORN GAY OR IT IS A LIFE DECISION TO BECOME GAY?

Tell us what you think. I say that ppl are not born gay but BECOME gay from life experiences or from how they were raised.

For me, I feel as if I was mainly born the way I am. I was always more interested in boys--even at a young age. I fell in love with my best friend throughout middle school (a guy), and so I came to terms with my sexuality around ninth grade. I have had passionate feelings for a female; they were just not even close to as strong as they are for the males I have been passionate for.

Nurture has little to nothing to do with me being a homosexual. I grew up in a gay-bashing family, I grew up with gay-bashing friends, and so I was very confused as to what to do. I have 'tried to be straight,' but when it comes down to it, it's just not worth forcing yourself to do things you don't feel right about.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by slothonaleash

For me, I feel as if I was mainly born the way I am. I was always more interested in boys--even at a young age. I fell in love with my best friend throughout middle school (a guy), and so I came to terms with my sexuality around ninth grade. I have had passionate feelings for a female; they were just not even close to as strong as they are for the males I have been passionate for.

Nurture has little to nothing to do with me being a homosexual. I grew up in a gay-bashing family, I grew up with gay-bashing friends, and so I was very confused as to what to do. I have 'tried to be straight,' but when it comes down to it, it's just not worth forcing yourself to do things you don't feel right about.

Just out of curiousity, what are your thoughts about bisexuals? I used to think homosexuality was an "at birth" kinda thing, but then I thought about how bisexuals have a choice. It got my mind turning.

[!Zar!]

Personally I think people who are bisexual have a preference be it man or woman, but they are comfortable enough to have relations with a man/woman. The comfort level depends on the person.

I believe that's why the whole metrosexual thing came to be. People who like to do slightly feminine/masculine things but without having relations with the same party.

Bisexuality is along the same line but they feel comfortable with all people.

I think that a majority of homosexuals are born that way; but there are cases where one was betrayed or done wrong so bad that they will never want to go back to whichever sex they were first interested in.

A majority of the time I think it starts as one questioning themselves, then going through a struggle to figure ones self out. Then after a while be it a long or short time acceptance happens (or at least hopefully) then one would advance feeling relief.

Bisexuality is something that I think comes from more comfort than birth.

[slothonaleash]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Just out of curiousity, what are your thoughts about bisexuals? I used to think homosexuality was an "at birth" kinda thing, but then I thought about how bisexuals have a choice. It got my mind turning.

I believe that many people are bisexual at some level. I am of a low percentage of bisexual--I strongly prefer guys over girls. Most people are on the other end of the spectrum--they strongly prefer the opposite sex, to the point where they will absolutely not even think about a same sex relationship. True bisexuals are somewhere in the middle--most that I have talked to say that they are a bit more attracted to one sex over the other, but they refuse to discriminate between relationships they want over gender. In fact, many that I have talked to have only dated members of one sex, but they find themselves attracted to both sexes; heavily enough that they would consider having relations with either.

I don't deny the fact that environment has some effect on sexual orientation. It most certainly has an effect on who comes out of the closet. I'm willing to bet that someone you know is gay or bisexual, but they are simply not ready to come to terms with it due to environment or other internal struggles.

For me, environment had no factor--all it did was impede me from being myself. I cannot speak for others, but I know that 99.99 percent of all gay people you talk to will say that they did not choose their sexual orientation and that their environment never persuaded them toward being homosexual. That remaining .01 percent is probably in it for the attention.

[slothonaleash]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

A majority of the time I think it starts as one questioning themselves, then going through a struggle to figure ones self out. Then after a while be it a long or short time acceptance happens (or at least hopefully) then one would advance feeling relief.
.

Zar I really like the way you are stating this. Boys (I'm gonna use males for this comment, as we are the majority) grow up told that they like girls. Now, most of these boys certainly do like girls, but there's that percentage that will be confused. They know they're supposed to like girls, so they look at girls and gawk with other guys about their sexual fantasies or whatever the fuck we did in middle school, but then they start to notice that they're looking at other boys more often. This can be extremely troubling--they start to feel as if something is terribly wrong with them. They can't help it but they just find boys more attractive than girls, then they may end up noticing that they don't like girls at all, maybe they like girls just as much as boys, or maybe it's some sort of mix in between. If middle school wasn't already terrible enough, now they have another pile of shit to deal with. Many end up coming to terms with themselves in high school, which is great. Others come out in college, some in their mid twenties, some may never come to terms with their inner feelings--it's a very sad position to be put in to think about

[RNGWLD]

Originally Posted by future240

How many gay people have you actually met and talked to? While there are extreme gay people(there are extremes in all categories of people), all the gay people I have met and talked to have been just regular people.

The media makes it seem like the gay community is so extreme and demanding, when in truth the most of them don't try to force gay on others. There are several gay zilvia members, but have you seen them be the gay extreme and preach about how we are all bigots? No.

I am not calling you a bigot or saying your entire post is wrong. I am just pointing out one part that is a partial untruth.

I've been shouted down in a college class because not agreeing 100% with everything the gay agenda wants to push forward. And if you follow the trends you will see that a big part of what is being pushed for, at least in academic circles and colleges, is a defense of a mentality that says "gay couples are 100% identical to straight couples, there is no difference whatsoever".


Sorry, that is the point where I do not agree. If you put a perfectly functional, loving gay couple next to a perfectly functional, loving straight one, I will still say a child's development will benefit more from growing with a mother and a father than with two men, or two women. Men and women are different, and I think it is good for a child to experience these differences. No matter which way you try to spin it, there are ways a mother can love you and things she does that a father would never be able to imitate, and there are certain ways a father loves and things he does for you that a mother, no matter how much she tries, would not be able to imitate either. The perfect, most beneficial way for a child to grow is to be exposed to the love of a mother and father figure.

If you want to see how extreme the gay right movement can be look at the U.K. For decades, the Catholic Church has been the main provider of foster homes and adoption services. Because Church policy is not to allow gay adoption, not long ago a law was passed which forbid Catholic adoption agencies from operating, claiming they followed discriminatory practices.

If the argument is "a gay home is better than a foster home" why did the gay movement push for this ban, which resulted in adoption agencies shutting down and making it even more difficult for foster kids to find a home? This "with us or against us mentality" is what I have a serious problem with, and one which I will continue to oppose.


Im out of this thread...I joined Zilvia for the marketplace, not to debate gay issues or whatever over the internet.

[driftpolice]

larry johnson hates gays apparently..and is paying for it dearly.

[Walperstyle]

I dont believe anyone should adopt kids.

why? because its the parents responsibility to take care of the children. This includes teaching them, and bringing them up to be respectful hard working successful people.

If you cant do this, dont have kids.

I'll solve this debate right now
let the gays adopt everyone that is in need of adoption, then shoot any future parent in the western world that isnt taking responsibility for having a kid. Even the most f'd up people should be able to wipe a dirty ass or put some food in the mouth of a kid. Its a part of growing up. Some of you might have to do it quicker. There is no excuse for giving up on your children.

[ThatGuy]

You do realize that all the children who are up for adoption aren't necesarily just abandoned/neglected kids, right?

I mean, if no one can adopt kids, then I guess if Timmy loses Mommy and Daddy in a car accident, he'll just have to buck up and take of himself?

I think you've stepped off the path of this conversation into your own debate.

[Walperstyle]

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

I mean, if no one can adopt kids, then I guess if Timmy loses Mommy and Daddy in a car accident, he'll just have to buck up and take of himself?

In my family usually the aunt or uncle, cousins, whomever best suited would take on the job. I had godparents so I was told.

thatguy, i'm just busting balls here, I wish more threads like this were closed because they are re-posts aren't they? lol

[Future240]

Originally Posted by Walperstyle

I dont believe anyone should adopt kids.

why? because its the parents responsibility to take care of the children. This includes teaching them, and bringing them up to be respectful hard working successful people.

This is by far the most ignorant statement I have read in a long time. In the year 2000. 127,407 children of various ages were adopted. (Info taken from How Many Children Were Adopted in 2000 and 2001?: 1. Findings: Children Adopted) If no one adopted all those kinds would just be left sitting in foster homes.

You ever consider maybe the parents are not fit to take care of those kids? Or how about those kids whose parents are dead? You said you had cousins and all that, but obviously if they are being adopted that option may not have been available to them.

I have a close friend who was adopted. Her mother did not have the ability to take care of her and they were no other people to take care of her so she was put up for adoption. A loving family took her in and raised her to be one of the kindest people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. I met her in college as we were both being "be respectful, hard working and successful people".

As I type this your ignorance actual offends me. I am quite literally glaring in anger in the sheer amount of stupidity that I see before. This is one of those rare times when I really do wish stupidity was damn near fatal.








Now back on topic

Question to pose to yall. How do you think it effects(or any effect at all) a child's mine to see too gay people kissing, holding hands, etc.? I think they may be confused but with a simple explanation they will understand that some people are different but that doesn't mean they are bad people.

[dudermagee]

Originally Posted by future240

Question to pose to yall. How do you think it effects(or any effect at all) a child's mine to see too gay people kissing, holding hands, etc.? I think they may be confused but with a simple explanation they will understand that some people are different but that doesn't mean they are bad people.

This is an issue with me as well
or at least it will be in the near future as "Gays" are becoming more accepted and are everywhere media wise
How do I expalain without getting into the reason why gays are really different
I mean the only reason why gays are different is because they have sex with the same sex
thats the biggest issue\only issue that americans and others have with them
Most straight americans don't even want to talk about their sex life let alone have someone else's thrust upon them
For example:
If a dude says he's gay he is saying "I make out with dudes, suck dick, and take it in the butt"
I really don't want to know that, and I don't want my kids to know that
and kids are quick, they'll start noticing that shit before they are 8yrs old
"hey daddy, why are those 2 men holding hands and kissing?"
"uh because they love each other......?"
"oh so I can hold hands with timmy and kiss him?"
"Fuck no!"
shit you shouldn't have to explain sex to your kid until they are at least 11-12

[SUPERSTAR]

Originally Posted by Walperstyle

In my family usually the aunt or uncle, cousins, whomever best suited would take on the job. I had godparents so I was told.

Not everyone has that, I speak for myself and from personal experience.

Adoption is a must, what is wrong with you? Don't believe kids should be adopted, WOW....JUST WOW!!

[dudermagee]

Originally Posted by DTC SUPERSTAR

Not everyone has that, I speak for myself and from personal experience.

Adoption is a must, what is wrong with you? Don't believe kids should be adopted, WOW....JUST WOW!!

ya if anything the adoption system in the us is broken\too tedious
that is why many families go overseas to get babies
easier and faster
they need to streamline the system while maintaining safety

[SUPERSTAR]

I agree with you 100% on this. ^^

Gays should be able to marry and adopt kids. I am willing to bet a steering wheel that they do a better job than some strait couples.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by dudermagee

This is an issue with me as well
or at least it will be in the near future as "Gays" are becoming more accepted and are everywhere media wise
How do I expalain without getting into the reason why gays are really different
I mean the only reason why gays are different is because they have sex with the same sex
thats the biggest issue\only issue that americans and others have with them
Most straight americans don't even want to talk about their sex life let alone have someone else's thrust upon them
For example:
If a dude says he's gay he is saying "I make out with dudes, suck dick, and take it in the butt"
I really don't want to know that, and I don't want my kids to know that
and kids are quick, they'll start noticing that shit before they are 8yrs old
"hey daddy, why are those 2 men holding hands and kissing?"
"uh because they love each other......?"
"oh so I can hold hands with timmy and kiss him?"
"Fuck no!"
shit you shouldn't have to explain sex to your kid until they are at least 11-12

it honestly sounds by your statement above you have some unresolved feelings about the whole Gay issue and or are reacting in a paranoid fashion.

I mean yes Gay men talking about sexual stuff in public and open mouth kissing is offensive to some. Though I can tell you most kids that are straight are going to even think about kissing a guy.

This is where you fail to understand the sexual dynamic. I first kissed a girl at the age of like 4 or 5 much to my sisters shock and my parents scolding. LOL
Fact is I have never been even interested in kissing a guy. LOL
Even If I do see it. Kids are no different. Most kids until the age of 11-12 find the whole interrelationship thing like love and kissing just plain icky.

Truth be told I do feel Gays are born that way. I also feel bisexual people are as well. Its not about a comfort level in my opinion. Some people are just wired differently. In a sense a guy could find a mans body attractive but not have any interest in a love relationship with a man. At the same time the same man could be completely attracted to Women and totally interested in loving relationships with them. I have met women that find womens bodies extremely attractive bu are not the least bit interested in having a love relationship with them. That is a form of bisexuality and I have seen it first hand. I.E. girlfriends. LOL

Let me state two things here that some Gays sometimes get real wrong.

One is a person coming out. A person can come to terms with their sexuality and not even come out and publicly state it. It really is their business and their business only.
I have a friend who I could swear was gay by the things he does and says but he will not say or tell anyone he is. Is he gay? Who knows? Its really his business, not ours.


The other thing Gays get wrong a lot of the time is the whole attitude that they have to be out and in peoples faces to promote their rights.

Sometimes getting in peoples faces, openly flaunting your sexual feelings and what not, getting extremely radical about promoting your agenda backfires. It scares the people that might accept it if it was not so aggressively pushed.

Also the whole business of the Gay community outing famous people, who are gay or anyone for that matter, for the sake of promoting the cause, is a violation of that persons personal rights. Its that's person decision not the gay community.

I think this backfires on Gays.

[dudermagee]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

it honestly sounds by your statement above you have some unresolved feelings about the whole Gay issue and or are reacting in a paranoid fashion.

I mean yes Gay men talking about sexual stuff in public and open mouth kissing is offensive to some. Though I can tell you most kids that are straight are going to even think about kissing a guy.

This is where you fail to understand the sexual dynamic. I first kissed a girl at the age of like 4 or 5 much to my sisters shock and my parents scolding. LOL
Fact is I have never been even interested in kissing a guy. LOL
Even If I do see it. Kids are no different. Most kids until the age of 11-12 find the whole interrelationship thing like love and kissing just plain icky.

Truth be told I do feel Gays are born that way. I also feel bisexual people are as well. Its not about a comfort level in my opinion. Some people are just wired differently. In a sense a guy could find a mans body attractive but not have any interest in a love relationship with a man. At the same time the same man could be completely attracted to Women and totally interested in loving relationships with them. I have met women that find womens bodies extremely attractive bu are not the least bit interested in having a love relationship with them. That is a form of bisexuality and I have seen it first hand. I.E. girlfriends. LOL

Let me state two things here that some Gays sometimes get real wrong.

One is a person coming out. A person can come to terms with their sexuality and not even come out and publicly state it. It really is their business and their business only.
I have a friend who I could swear was gay by the things he does and says but he will not say or tell anyone he is. Is he gay? Who knows? Its really his business, not ours.


The other thing Gays get wrong a lot of the time is the whole attitude that they have to be out and in peoples faces to promote their rights.

Sometimes getting in peoples faces, openly flaunting your sexual feelings and what not, getting extremely radical about promoting your agenda backfires. It scares the people that might accept it if it was not so aggressively pushed.

Also the whole business of the Gay community outing famous people, who are gay or anyone for that matter, for the sake of promoting the cause, is a violation of that persons personal rights. Its that's person decision not the gay community.

I think this backfires on Gays.

Ya I admit it I'm a homophobe
It just wierds me out
but I'm that way with alot of things I don't understand, Just the way I am i guess
But the good thing is that I see that and try to be more understanding

I don't have an issue with gays as long as they're not
making out in front of me (but I don't like it when straight couples do that either)
or are flamboyant

personally I think it is wrong to be gay
immorally, religiously, even scientifically
but also I respect your free choice to do what you want in life
but also I expect the same respect of not pushing your beliefs on me

[dudermagee]

Originally Posted by DTC SUPERSTAR

I agree with you 100% on this. ^^

Gays should be able to marry and adopt kids. I am willing to bet a steering wheel that they do a better job than some strait couples.

studies have shown that they (adopted kids) do just as well and in some cases better with same sex parents, I don't really approve, but I wouldn't vote for or against if a measure was brought up, as I don't feel strongly against it either.

They also said that kids raised by same sex parents don't "turn gay", they said that the chance of them being gay or not is unaffected, which leads to believe that it may be a thing your born with not something that is chosen

I dunno...I still think that they shouldn't be able to get married in the traditional sense
someone came up with a good idea
the government should just get rid of marriage and make it a civil union for EVERYONE, then you get all of the government stuff you get with marriage
then after that if you want to get married you go to the church of your choice (which has no legal bearing, effectively further seperating church and state)
as a christian I would be okay with that

[VROOOM]

my cousin is gay, i used to live next door to a gay couple(women) who adopted 2 kids and i used to work in a store that had quite a few gays that worked there.

ive seen the good and the bad of both sides. my old neighbors were awesome people and were great mothers to thier adopted kids. i dont think a straight couple would do any better job rasing kids than these two women have. the kids dont act gay or anything like that. i dont see a thing wrong with this. thses kids now have parents that love and provide for them in a way that a foster home couldnt. every kid needs that.


the place i worked at that had a large lesbian population was a bit different. the girls would try and "convert" every female that got hired at the store. they were extremely aggresive and it was kind of intimidating for some of the new hires. it kinda bothered me, but in a way its just the same as every guy hitting on the new girl.

i dont care if gays get married or not. i dont think its anyones decision but thiers. i dont see how someone can try and stop someone form doing something that isnt going to harm them in one way. you may not want to see 2 guys kissing, but there are alot of things i see everyday that i dont really want to see either. im not out trying to outlaw it. its not my place to do that.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by dudermagee

studies have shown that they (adopted kids) do just as well and in some cases better with same sex parents, I don't really approve, but I wouldn't vote for or against if a measure was brought up, as I don't feel strongly against it either.

I am curious to know why don't you approve considering the bolded?

Originally Posted by dudermagee

the government should just get rid of marriage and make it a civil union for EVERYONE, then you get all of the government stuff you get with marriage
then after that if you want to get married you go to the church of your choice (which has no legal bearing, effectively further seperating church and state)
as a christian I would be okay with that

As a Christian, I think if you want to get church married you should be able and get your benefits. I also believe that if you just want to be married, you should be able to have a wedding similar to the traditional church style weddings cept you use a judge to marry you, that way for those who are agnostic, atheist, gay (since the church is disapproving of them) they can all still be married and get benefits.

[Walperstyle]

nobody 'got' what I was saying, you read the first line of print then commented. Cheers for getting angry for no reason. lol.

let me know when you solve something on the internet

[Matej]

We should go back to the olden ways of the hedonists. When men could be gay if they wanted to. But they would still get married to women, to make heirs and continue the lineage, and to have someone help out with the household. None of this emotional love business.
And women had no rights.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Walperstyle

nobody 'got' what I was saying, you read the first line of print then commented. Cheers for getting angry for no reason. lol.

let me know when you solve something on the internet

Ok, since you want someone to directly address your previous comments? I will.

First off, there is no doubt that people should not have children if they do not have the ability or desire to raise them.

Unfortunately when it comes to having sex, some people tend to not think about the consequences till after the fact.

So according to your logic these people should be killed. If they have kids and cannot raise them.

Wow genocide, that's a real brilliant idea to correct the problem of people having children and putting them up for adoption.

Lets just kill people for the sake of them being idiots. Eugenics FTW! NOT!

Now you use the above arguments as a way to solve the issue of if Gays should have the right to be married.

Your statement is does nothing towards that issue in fact it obfuscates it.

The issue is about marriage, people use the child raising issue to defer the main issue.

Therefore, your statement does not to solve the issue and is quite honestly patently ignorant of human righst and common sense.

[theicecreamdan]

Originally Posted by Vision Garage

My friend asked me this the other day at work.

DO YOU THINK PPL ARE BORN GAY OR IT IS A LIFE DECISION TO BECOME GAY?

Here's a question in response to that. Why does it matter? Whether people choose to be gay or are "born" gay doesn't change whether they deserve human rights.

"I mean the only reason why gays are different is because they have sex with the same sex"

That's the ONLY difference? Are gay virgins not actually gay? Human sexuality can never be made as black and white as this issue. We don't even completely understand gender and sex.

[BustedS13]

Originally Posted by Vision Garage

My friend asked me this the other day at work.

DO YOU THINK PPL ARE BORN GAY OR IT IS A LIFE DECISION TO BECOME GAY?

Tell us what you think. I say that ppl are not born gay but BECOME gay from life experiences or from how they were raised.

could go either way.
rule of thumb... if you meet some dude and you don't find out he's gay until you've known him for a while, he was probably born gay. if you see two dudes making out in a straight bar, it was probably a life decision.

gays should be able to marry, join the military after it comes out, live safely in Texas, etc etc etc.
anybody who disagrees is either a bigot or is letting their denomination of choice do their thinking for them. and nobody wants to think that maybe their religion is wrong about something, so it's hard to move on the subject.
i wish all religions could deus ex machina primitive laws and bullshit away the way Mormons do.
"uh, had a vision lol, polygamy isn't cool and native americans aren't red because satan marked them. write it down"

[Matej]

Going to write to a representative to see if he could put forth a motion to ban religion.