Nistune information guide - How tos, a guide for you

[DALAZ_68]

Originally Posted by steve shadows

If you taking time out of your schedule to provide free support is costing you valuable time or money then you shoud supply a limited number of free support hours to customers and then charge for time afteer that.

There is no unspoken law that says an ECM or Standalone manufacturer has to provide free and unlimited service or that you have to make up this cost by imbedding it in charging extra to customers to access certain capabilties of the software by limiting licenses

true, but then he would be limiting his time to those who supported his product...he's offering more support to us, his costumers. mind you he's not a huge corporation like other companies, the fact that his work has spread as far as it has is without a doubt impressive...the fact that gives more time to his costumers than other tuners and parts suppliers,and he himself the developer answers the questions being asked is straight up honorable...

see if he were to limit his time, then someone elses argument would be why is he limiting his time...

[steve shadows]

Originally Posted by DALAZ_68

true, but then he would be limiting his time to those who supported his product...he's offering more support to us, his costumers. mind you he's not a huge corporation like other companies, the fact that his work has spread as far as it has is without a doubt impressive...the fact that gives more time to his costumers than other tuners and parts suppliers,and he himself the developer answers the questions being asked is straight up honorable...

see if he were to limit his time, then someone elses argument would be why is he limiting his time...

But only a small percentage of those who buy the unit are going to need extensive support directly from him...

Don't get me wrong again, I think that Nis-Tune is a good unit, but I don't understand by the supporters on this board ARE SOOOO touchy about the smallest critisims, it's really suspicious.

The unit has great potential and is a good deal in the broader scope but limiting licenses, in my opinion is going to limit the amount of support and sales the unit ends up gettnig in the end.

Everyone basically is taking a hit for a few people sucking up his time.

It's not really a way to directly build in costs.

The other manufacturers would argue that their cost is R and D costs and the design and testing of the unit and that Support is free and soley dependent on how much time they have to get back .

Believe it or not even Haltech and Motec are not HUGE companies, they only have a few people stateside who are available for tech support at all...

I think it's just a trick way to force tuning shops and customers to shell out extra money for a "license."

This is not Hondata, nor is it Windows 2000. It's a product modeling itslef on DIY market.

I think it would be a lot more fair to the consumers if the basic tuning software was avaialble and did not need a license.

In the end the money will still be made on the "WorkShops" licenses especailly if there is more access granted with these Licenses.

Just a thought.

[SidewaysGts]

Originally Posted by steve shadows

Don't get me wrong again, I think that Nis-Tune is a good unit, but I don't understand by the supporters on this board ARE SOOOO touchy about the smallest critisims, it's really suspicious.

Its not that were "touchy". The problem with your "smallest criticisms" from what I've seen so far is they were based entirely on your ignorance becuase you didn't take the simple time to properly research the unit (Ie: read the manual), and stemmed entirely from your own mis-understandings. All of which as far as I could see were addressed nicely by Matt Brown. Your "criticisms" have been nothing but false information. It usually helps ones case to know what they are talking about, before they criticize it. And the "supporters" would probably be a LOT more receptive to your criticisms if this wasnt the case.

After all of that the only real criticism you have left that I can see is that they charge money for their software, and you feel it should be free. I guess I just cant see the issue with this. Unless I mis-read Matt there, even if you buy it all brand new from them, its only 430 bucks. Can you list me some comparative systems for that kind of money? New?

Would you be happy if they included the software for free, and just charged 430 bucks for everything instead? It all seems pretty fair to me.

Dont get me wrong, I can see your concerns. Its just that when everything costs so little to begin with, i really cant agree. Even if you decide to re-sell the unit, the software lisence can go with it. The only people I can see this actually effecting, are people who wanted to dl the software and play around with it without the ecu in an offline mode.

[steve shadows]

Originally Posted by SidewaysGts

Its not that were "touchy". The problem with your "smallest criticisms" from what I've seen so far is they were based entirely on your ignorance becuase you didn't take the simple time to properly research the unit (Ie: read the manual), and stemmed entirely from your own mis-understandings. All of which as far as I could see were addressed nicely by Matt Brown. Your "criticisms" have been nothing but false information. It usually helps ones case to know what they are talking about, before they criticize it. And the "supporters" would probably be a LOT more receptive to your criticisms if this wasnt the case.

How was I not correct? The issue was that licensing would not allow me access to the emulator function. After inspecting Nis-tunes own FAQ it mentioned the use of an external Emulator and I requested this be cleared up. unless asking a question is false information, which it is not...

I find it funny people joining on this forum with only a couple posts just to come in this thread and add thier two cents.


After all of that the only real criticism you have left that I can see is that they charge money for their software, and you feel it should be free. I guess I just cant see the issue with this. Unless I mis-read Matt there, even if you buy it all brand new from them, its only 430 bucks. Can you list me some comparative systems for that kind of money? New?

Would you be happy if they included the software for free, and just charged 430 bucks for everything instead? It all seems pretty fair to me.

Dont get me wrong, I can see your concerns. Its just that when everything costs so little to begin with, i really cant agree. Even if you decide to re-sell the unit, the software lisence can go with it. The only people I can see this actually effecting, are people who wanted to dl the software and play around with it without the ecu in an offline mode.

You would also have to agree with me that the "preferred shop list" or limiting the "workshop" software to only shops - will also LIMIT the number of tuners who will be able to fully exlpore the potential of the Nistune units for it's clients.

It is a solution for the same goal and is a way to adjust fuel and ignition on a car but it does require a few things are additonal costs to the user:

I.e. Installation, cost of licenses and limitation on shops that can actually tune the unit withe full "workshop" package.

[sidewaysstarion]

Here Steve, let me break it down for you in simple first grade mathematics

Nistune Single user license $200 AUD
Nistune Dealers license (also includes discount on hardware) $600 AUD
Nistune Board for SR ~ $250 AUD

Apexi Power Fc Commander (what is needed to tune a power FC) ~$300 USD
Apexi Power Fc Unit ~$1000+ USD
Apexi Power Fc Software w/ License ~$400 USD

Haltech... That is $1500-$2000+ (that doesn't include a custom harness for the car)

So lets do some math, so lets price out a nistune board and dealers license

$250 AUD + $600 AUD = $850 AUD
current exchange rate is 1.00 AUD = 0.827908 USD

so all of that would cost you $703.71

so now lets price out a nistune board + a license

$250 AUD + $200 AUD = $450 AUD = $372.46

so for less then half the price of just the Power FC unit you could fully tune your stock computer.

Also how dare FC datalogit sell their software, we should yell at them about not giving it away for free.

Oh yeah steve, you could get a nistune board + a dealers license for less then the cost of a Power Fc that you love so much and still have money left over to rent dyno time from your friend to play with it.

A good friend once told me, You have to pay to play, because there are no free lunches.

Also Steve as SidewaysGTS said in his post please give us an example of something that will do the same thing or more for less money?

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by sidewaysstarion

Haltech... That is $1500-$2000+ (that doesn't include a custom harness for the car)

Just to clarify, you don't need a custom harness for the Haltech. They make a patch harness that allows the Haltech unit to plug right into the factory harness and use all the factory sensors. With the patch harness comes the harness for the IAT and MAP sensors. There are provisions to add other controls as well. Depending on what Haltech unit you go with, you're looking at $1300-$1700, plus the patch harness cost. You can buy a flying lead harness, but I only see that necessary if installing in a custom chassis, or a custom swap situation.

Like stated, Steve is merely pointing out an issue he has ran into. Having a maximum of 3 allowable addresses and 5 ID's does hinder potential secondhand purchaser's. Perhaps the new customer should have to transfer the license into their name (secondhand purchaser) for a minimal fee that allows them to reset the license procedure and have 3 fresh addresses and 5 new ID's available to them for use. This will protect Nistunes assets, and allow the new customer the chance for full access to their system if the first owner has used all the available addresses and ID's.

[hexdmy]

Originally Posted by steve shadows

You would also have to agree with me that the "preferred shop list" or limiting the "workshop" software to only shops - will also LIMIT the number of tuners who will be able to fully exlpore the potential of the Nistune units for it's clients.

It is a solution for the same goal and is a way to adjust fuel and ignition on a car but it does require a few things are additonal costs to the user:

I.e. Installation, cost of licenses and limitation on shops that can actually tune the unit withe full "workshop" package.

Why should there not be a "preferred shop list" ? I paid for the dealer license, and I don't even have a Nissan customer base. I'm also not on the official "preferred shop list" as I don't think I have earned that title yet. The intent of the dealer list is so that people can find a shop familiar with Nistune, what's wrong with that ?

If Nistune only worked with Nistune hardware, I imagine they would have no problem giving out the software for free. Being that it can be used with many different hardware interfaces, it does not make any sense at all, as they would just be handing out all the hard work they put into Nistune with no return. Steve Shadow's, would you give away something that it took you five years to develope, and that you continually support and spend money on ?

Really Steve, although you have toned down your attitude somewhat, it is clear to me that you are still trying to slam this product, either because you have not taken the time to fully familiarise yourself with it (i.e. read and fully comprehend the documentation) , or you are just pretending to be ignorant. Either way, it's making you look bad, not Nistune, so I suggest again, that you stop this foolish behavior while you can.

[steve shadows]

Originally Posted by kandyflip445

If you take a AEM EMS, a guy buys one second hand. Same engine, same car. He can go DL the software for himself and get going with tuning the EMS.

With the Nistune, if you bought the ecu second hand and the licenses were used by the previous owner, then you have to buy a new license.

This isn't ideal for the DIY'er that is trying to score a good deal by buying a 2nd had ecu.

I believe that if Steve really wanted to tune Nistune cars he would purchase the Tuner license. But I can't speak for him.

I think he's mearly pointing out the difficulty his client has had with it and would like insight to what can be done for those 2nd hand buyers out there.

exactly...

And also trying to help other dyno tuner shops who dont have a large customer base of Nis-tune customers but would like to support them in the case that they come to them for tuning of the unit without having to buy a SPECIAL set of licenses to be capable.

these are all perfectly valid questions about this unit.

Nothing is perfect and when a company or "supporters" who are directly tied to a product make massive claims as a tuner as someone WHO IS FAMILIAR with the product I have a perfectly good place to make a comment or a question directly about certain aspects of the unit. I am sure these questions being directly answered by Nis-tune have been helpful to other board members as well.

If you have ever followed me on here and other forums- I was extremely harsh on the AEM unit when it first came out as well, I have tuned hundreds of them now either remotely or on the dyno and eventually AEM worked out it's issues, the biggest being the CAS mis-fire issue, which it remedied with an updated CAS wheel.


I am looking out for my customers and believe it or not - trying to help nis-tune make it's product more accessible and easier to sell to consumers and tuners who would like to recommend the unit to even more potential customers...

[SidewaysGts]

Originally Posted by steve shadows

but would like to support them in the case that they come to them for tuning of the unit without having to buy a SPECIAL set of licenses to be capable

Can you explain this special lisence a bit more for us?