The Future Automotive Thread

[dorkidori_s13]

uh, because its 2016 and theres NO reason to have "underpowered" cars anymore.

[zenkicpe]

I guess.. seems like a good reason. What else "shouldn't" we have anymore now that its 2016?

[dorkidori_s13]

ok, its 2016... the idea of making cars barely eeking out 200hp that are supposed to be "sports cars" or "performance cars" from Japanese manufacturers is just stupid. 200hp is the mark that most entry level sedans are pushing. take a look at Ford and Chevy with their 4 pot turbo motors they are stuffing in the Camaro, Focus, ATS and Mustang. 280hp to 310hp easy. thats what most domestic V8s in the 90s were pushing and they were top of the line. hell, youre hard pressed to see their big V8 brothers pushing out anything below 400hp now.

so again, its 2016... why do the Japanese refuse to offer their 4 bangers with numbers that far exceed 200hp when its easily, reliably and economically done!

[dudermagee]

The fact that the BRZ\FRS didn't have an STI or whatever performance edition blows my mind. They could have just simply used the STI long block\turbo configuration and it would have been amazing imo.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by zenkicpe

I dont understand why having a Rwd somewhat underpowered cars for sale is some kind of gripe. I mean we are on a 240 site, 240's were underpowered.

Except no.

In 1989 155hp from an NA 4-pot was pretty bad ass. A turbo Dodge only made 150-175hp.

A Civic only made 85hp.

A Porsche 944 only made 165hp.

Also, nobody; NOBODY buys a 240sx for the stock power. They buy them because you can drop a huge array of engines into what is an attractive, inexpensive and lightweight RWD coupe.

No one wants to spend $25-$30k on a new car to then spend another $5-10k swapping an engine.

The Japanese designers/managers are just plain stubborn.

Go watch Midnight Waggan and watch as the arrogance of the Japanese tuning mindset unfolds.

[Dutchmalmiss]

They seem to only have the formula right for a select few new RWD cars (Lexus IS, Infiniti Q60, that's probably it huh? haha); they only reward the hp-hungry to the ones with cash to burn.

Meanwhile, you get a Fiesta ST over here for the same price as a Corolla S or a Hellcat for $20k less than a GS-F. What do japanese brands swear they have over US brands nowadays other than reliability? Or is reliability alone enough?

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by zenkicpe

I dont understand why having a Rwd somewhat underpowered cars for sale is some kind of gripe. I mean we are on a 240 site, 240's were underpowered. I thought we all enjoyed wrenching on our shit and making it better and more unique. Why is it that there is this attitude that we need everything to come from the factory with high power. Did everyone get lazy and apathetic. The miata/124/frs/brz platforms are awesome. Buy em, improve em... its what hot rodding is all about!

We're on a 240sx site because we all wanted Silvias and this was the best we could get. Turbo Silvias were in no way underpowered for their vintage. Nor did they require a damn engine swap or sketchy aftermarket turbo kit to realize much greater power.

If we had a choice, I'm pretty sure most of us would opt for a more powerful factory engine at a good price. Personally, I refuse to believe that Hyundai could bring a 274hp 2.0t to the market & sell it for $27k (BY THEMSELVES!) but Toyota and Subara working together could not. That was a choice they made. And fuck them for it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I can't give one solitary fuck about a 240sx successor. I want a Silvia successor.

Ecoboost Stang is the closest we've got right now. Just weighs about 400lbs more than most would like and has an ugly hood profile. But I still spend time dreaming about what could have been if the GT4 Stinger were actually released.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Dutchmalmiss

They seem to only have the formula right for a select few new RWD cars (Lexus IS, Infiniti Q60, that's probably it huh? haha); they only reward the hp-hungry to the ones with cash to burn.

Meanwhile, you get a Fiesta ST over here for the same price as a Corolla S or a Hellcat for $20k less than a GS-F. What do japanese brands swear they have over US brands nowadays other than reliability? Or is reliability alone enough?

What is this "reliability" you speak of?

Since 2008 I would take a Chevy orFord over any Japanese rival.

[Dutchmalmiss]

Originally Posted by Corbic

What is this "reliability" you speak of?

Since 2008 I would take a Chevy orFord over any Japanese rival.

See that's the thing. Reliability's been improving for domestic brands so much so that japanese brands can't use that solely as their competitive advantage anymore. Are brand loyalists that blind?

[Matej]

GM recalled 4.3 million cars last week over air bags not inflating.

Although they use Takata airbags, so you either split your head on the steering wheel or get a face full of shrapnel.

Also, 'domestic' loyalists are just as stubborn and annoying as JDM nerds.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by zenkicpe

I dont understand why having a Rwd somewhat underpowered cars for sale is some kind of gripe. I mean we are on a 240 site, 240's were underpowered. I thought we all enjoyed wrenching on our shit and making it better and more unique. Why is it that there is this attitude that we need everything to come from the factory with high power. Did everyone get lazy and apathetic. The miata/124/frs/brz platforms are awesome. Buy em, improve em... its what hot rodding is all about!

Except depending on where you live? It's not always exactly legal to hot rod your vehicle anymore unless it's older than 35 years. Now when I mean not legal what I am talking about is emissions laws that implicitly state very strict requirements. For instance here in California you can only technically install an engine that is same model year or newer. Oh and while you install a newer engine try getting it all up to par with what the State BAR emission referee will want to see to make it officially legal.
We live in a time when a lot of Automobile manufacturers are actually delivering stock high powered cars to the showroom floor.

See Suburu and Toyota screwed up on the FRS/BRZ. It's not the HP that's the problem with the car it's the TQ it's an abysmal 150 ft lbs.
The Fiesta ST with a smaller engine delivers 3 ponies less but 60 more ft lbs of TQ in car that weighs the same and comes in at between 3-5k less. Plus it was designed by Ford Germany and pretty much is the hottest handling hatch ever built.
Now granted its FWD but they did such a great job it will put a grin on a RWD lovers face if they drive it.

Thing is there was no reason to not deliver the goods in the FRS/BRZ. They released a modern day 240sx sure but the thing is 30 years should spell improvements not same. It's like oh wow this feels like my stock S13 which always could have had more power easily. Except Nissan did not want to take the chance of hampering Z car sales.

Was Suburu afraid of effecting BRZ sales? Did they have a massive brain fart and go oh 150ft lbs of TQ is plenty. It's really what everyone complains about.

As far as the Miata goes they did make it lighter which helped and the fact is Miata's have always been underpowered unless Madzaspeed.

Of course the Lotus Elan which is what Mazda copied the Miata from was no great shakes in the power department either, very few British Roadsters where. Which is what the Miata owes its heritage to.

P.S. some of us while liking hot Redding might also on occasion get a car that has enough power stock to just jump in and drive and enjoy.
Not lazy just easy, we still usually have our project machines. Hell even I have back to the roots projects planned. Yet having a nice stock daily that has power and does not need to be fucked with is nice.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Matej

GM recalled 4.3 million cars last week over air bags not inflating.

Although they use Takata airbags, so you either split your head on the steering wheel or get a face full of shrapnel.

Also, 'domestic' loyalists are just as stubborn and annoying as JDM nerds.

Yeah, but that same recall has effected nearly every brand on he market including BMW. To call out only the latest recall is pretty silly.

Reliability across the board is so much better than it was just 15 years (essentially 2.5 generations) ago. The domestics have either caught up or surpassed the Japanese manufacturers and have really leap frogged them in technology.

And back on topic, the bang for your buck out of the Mustang and Camaro, in any trim, is untouched by anything coming out of Japan.

[lunchmeat]

My 08 Silverado has the airbag recall. So what? Reliability wise, the only issue I've had with it is a tire pressure sensor shit the bed a month ago. I've owned that truck since Feb 09 and have put 100k miles on it since.

[zenkicpe]

Well I guess im not really looking for the same stuff as you guys, most cars these days that have the power youre describing only have that power because they are inflated overweight bland pieces of garbage. Styled like ass with their high waistlines and gotta have them huge ass wheels too. Shit has gotten fat and stupid.

Ford and Chevy LOL thank god I dont swing on their nutsacks. How many chevy cruze's do you know that havent blown the fuck up with 40k miles.

Citing a silverado as an example of reliability is a little disengenous at best, how much was that truck new?? How much R&D goes into a WORK TRUCK?? How about all you Spark owners out there chime in and let us have your reliability testimonies LOL

How long before all the turbo mustang owners trade their hunks of shit in when their heads are full of carbon gunk and it breaks a valve oe smokes a turbo? Anybody on here know about what happens to the DI ford turbo engines when they hit 80-100k?? Wanna service it and clean it, good luck to your turbo sitting downstream from chunks of carbon lol i could go on all day. Google it yourself.

And I pity anyone who has to use the dealer for any service or warranty work as those jackasses dont even need me to say anything about their modus operandi.

The way the world operates in reality vs. online is vastly different.

How many JD Power and assoc. best initial quality awards does it take to convince me?? Theres not enough in the world my 240 brothers!

Commence Chevy Ford lovefest.

[dorkidori_s13]

did like a mustang anally rape your mother while it forced you to watch or something?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by zenkicpe

*lots of crying*

[zenkicpe]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

did like a mustang anally rape your mother while it forced you to watch or something?

nope just not buying into the new car hype, marketing firms spend millions forming your opinion, not mine.

Drink the KOOL AID

[zenkicpe]

Feel free to refute any of the points covered in my post though. I enjoy being critiqued.

[Corbic]

Let's address your dumbassory one step at a time.

Originally Posted by zenkicpe

Well I guess im not really looking for the same stuff as you guys, most cars these days that have the power youre describing only have that power because they are inflated overweight bland pieces of garbage. Styled like ass with their high waistlines and gotta have them huge ass wheels too. Shit has gotten fat and stupid.

Cars are heavier because they are larger, safer, more comfortable and have more features. This is across the board and note in anyway unique to the Domestics.

BMW F82 M4 is 3,556lbs
BMW E30 M3 was 2,568lbs

GTR R35 is 3,840lbs
GTR R32 was 3,146lbs

The bigger wheels are to accommodate bigger brakes. Yes, most 18-20" OEM wheels are heavy and ugly, but most OEM 15-16" wheels where also heavy and ugly.

Originally Posted by zenkicpe

Ford and Chevy LOL thank god I dont swing on their nutsacks. How many chevy cruze's do you know that havent blown the fuck up with 40k miles.

All actually...

Originally Posted by zenkicpe

Citing a silverado as an example of reliability is a little disengenous at best, how much was that truck new?? How much R&D goes into a WORK TRUCK?? How about all you Spark owners out there chime in and let us have your reliability testimonies LOL:

This doesn't even make sense....

Originally Posted by zenkicpe

How long before all the turbo mustang owners trade their hunks of shit in when their heads are full of carbon gunk and it breaks a valve oe smokes a turbo? Anybody on here know about what happens to the DI ford turbo engines when they hit 80-100k?? Wanna service it and clean it, good luck to your turbo sitting downstream from chunks of carbon lol i could go on all day. Google it yourself.

You are a fucking idiot.

Carbon build up on Direct Injection engines is a universal issue, it's not unique to Ford.

Look at all the issues the FRZ twins have had with chirping fuel pumps and what not. Volkswagen FSI engines are known for carb build up.

Turbo failure? Do you not know how the global supply chain works? Fucking peasant. Ford is using Borg Warner turbochargers... are you saying Borg Warner turbo chargers are unreliable? That's like crying about Chevy Airbags when the Airbags are made by a Japanese company and are the same Airbags used in Japanese cars.

Originally Posted by zenkicpe

And I pity anyone who has to use the dealer for any service or warranty work as those jackasses dont even need me to say anything about their modus operandi.

So Jordan Ford is terrible but Jordan Toyota; which shares the same building, will be amazing?

What about Gurley Leep Chevy vs Gurely Leep Subaru? Is Basney Honda going to be better then Basney Ford?

Originally Posted by zenkicpe

The way the world operates in reality vs. online is vastly different.



How many JD Power and assoc. best initial quality awards does it take to convince me?? Theres not enough in the world my 240 brothers!



Commence Chevy Ford lovefest.

Not like you could even afford a new car anyways.....

[dudermagee]

I love it when Corbic uses his powers for good.




Hell even the new American sedans, SUV's, and hot hatches are better than what Japan is putting out.


If anyone is swinging off nutsacks its you zenkicpe. Japan is lagging behind in their design, performance, and technology so much that I would buy a fucking Hyundai before I would buy a new Nissan, Toyota, or Honda. And I'd buy a new ford over all of those.

[zenkicpe]

I never said japan is banging out hot new cars either, though I would much prefer a BRZ/FRS over some crap ford or chevy junk. The 90's and to some extent the early 00's has the last of the fun cars.

Personally witnessed more than 1 cruze driven by average non-sporting drivers have their turbos/headgaskets fail. yeah both right about 40k.

Borg warner makes nice turbos, but when a manufacturer engineers a drivetrain which is junk and slaps a BW on it, I guess anything can happen.

ALL dealers blow balls.

Can afford a new car really easily, just like every other american idiot out there.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

did like a mustang anally rape your mother while it forced you to watch or something?

:r ofl:

Originally Posted by dudermagee

If anyone is swinging off nutsacks its you zenkicpe. Japan is lagging behind in their design, performance, and technology so much that I would buy a fucking Hyundai before I would buy a new Nissan, Toyota, or Honda. And I'd buy a new ford over all of those.

Yeap. Ford is hitting all cyclinders on performance right now. Want an AWD hatch that handles like a mofo? Ford Focus RS. Want a turbo 4 coupe? Ford's got you. Want a burly v8 coupe? Ford's got one for you. How about a high revving v8? Yeap still ford. Ok, how about a Balls to the wall boosted V8 with over 600hp. The ford dealership is right this way.

[zenkicpe]

1999 Honda Civic Si Compare Car 0-60 mph 7.1 | Quarter mile 15.5

2014 Ford Fiesta ST Compare Car 0-60 mph 6.7 | Quarter mile 15.0

ALL THAT PROGRESS LOL
hey its 2016!!

[spooled240]

The '99 Civic SI back then was like a $26k car in today's dollars.

Fiesta ST starts at $21k. You just don't get much bang for your buck with Japanese cars anymore.

[zenkicpe]

Originally Posted by spooled240

The '99 Civic SI back then was like a $26k car in today's dollars.

Fiesta ST starts at $21k. You just don't get much bang for your buck with Japanese cars anymore.

agreed, anymore...

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by zenkicpe

1999 Honda Civic Si Compare Car 0-60 mph 7.1 | Quarter mile 15.5



2014 Ford Fiesta ST Compare Car 0-60 mph 6.7 | Quarter mile 15.0



ALL THAT PROGRESS LOL

hey its 2016!!

So the Fiesta is faster, safer, more practical and better handling with a better interior... and that's not progress?

That FiST is actually faster then the previous 2014 Civic Si.

If that FiST doesn't have enough umph, go buy the FoST for $3k more.

How's that new Sentra SER Spec-V? What about the Celica GTS or MRS or Corolla S or Eclipse and Evo?

You are fighting an idiotic and losing argument.

In 2002 Japan basically said "we did it, fuck it all we're done here".

Newer Subarus have never been as cool as the 22B. Newest Hondas have never been as cool as the CRX and EG. Nissan could not follow up their short run from 88-94 and again with the 350Z. Toyota peaked with the 3rd Gen 4runner. Mitsubishi peaked with then Evo VI.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by zenkicpe

1999 Honda Civic Si Compare Car 0-60 mph 7.1 | Quarter mile 15.5

2014 Ford Fiesta ST Compare Car 0-60 mph 6.7 | Quarter mile 15.0

ALL THAT PROGRESS LOL
hey its 2016!!

Hmm let me see
Si Coupe FWD 5M 7.6 sec 16.1 sec @ 87 mph Car and Driver
Si Coupe FWD 5M 7.2 sec 15.7 sec @ 88.4 mph Motor Trend


Those are Car and Driver and Motor Trend quarter mile times, so I trust they are pretty on the mark.
Did you know that real world tests have shown the Fiesta ST is quicker and faster? Did you realize the Fiesta ST is doing it with a 1.6 liter?
Did you know the Fiesta has real world tested top Speed of 149 mph on the Autobahn and is actually quite drivable at that speed? Probably not but I can guarantee a stock 99 Civic si is not going to do 149 mph.

Next question is have you even driven both cars? I have, lol my friend owned a Civic of that era and I drove it. Did not drive bad I give you that.

Did not drive anything like a Fiesta ST lol . 99 Civic si can you say boring grocery getter?
Fiesta ST, balls out go kart track in disguise.
The Fiesta ST is such a leap up the scale in hatchback cars it's crazy.

I can personally attest to the comment one reviewer made of its the FWD car that thinks it's RWD and behaves that way.

Seriously dude your picking a losing battle in singling out the Fiesta ST as Ford really did get everything right with the car. It is being considered one of the hottest hatches of all time.

Now to use it as example as how Ford has not progressed our outperformed the Japanese at their own game? Well buddy you picked the wrong car and failed miserably in doing so.

Oh and I did compare it to what's considered to be one of the best current Japanese hatches the Mazda 3 and I also compared it to the Ford Focus ST.

The Fiesta ST pretty much smokes everything but the Focus RS( seriously bad ass) and the GTI and given my experience with German cars. I would say in terms of reliability that the Ford is going to own the Volkswagen.

Final word... See it's not that we are all screaming how great Ford is these days errr cough cough ... Well except for Corbic, hahahhaha but that we are recognizing that American car companies are actually starting to get it. Ford morso than even GM though GM is not doing bad but Ford is doing really well.

In contrast like others have said outside of Mazda, I see both Toyota and Suburu fumbling.
Sure the BRZ/FRS has a lot of the right stuff, but it failed in the most critical area that ties the whole package together in desirability, Torque! There I said it and so many miss it. HP ain't shit without decent TQ and a modern 2.0 only putting out 150ft lbs of TQ is abysmal in a 2750lb car.
For contrast the ST drops 202, over 50 more ft lbs. It actually makes a big difference in acceleration.
( Let's not even discuss Nissan as under Frenchie they seem to be resting on the laurels of their past glory)
Oh and that 99 Civic rings the TQ bell at a whopping 111ft lbs.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by Corbic

In 2002 Japan basically said "we did it, fuck it all we're done here"..

Yeap. Look at the WRX/STI. Same 2.5 ej engine (minus the 2.0 fa20t the 2015 wrx has) for years. same 305hpr. Meanwhile Ford came along and dropped a 2.3L 350hp turbo AWD hatch that spools hella quick and is faster than the STI around the track.


Nissan has one car worth shit and it is out of most peoples price ranges. The 370 is old tired, and out of its league with comparably priced cars. Sure the infiniti line has a 3.0T engine but its mated to all auto cars.


Honda-pfft, the nsx is even more than the GTR


Toyota--the frs, nuff said


Mitsu-killed the evo in may


ford- turbo stang, v8 stang, flat plane v8 stang, supercharged v8 stang


Gm-v8 Camaro, zl1 Camaro, super charged Camaro, corvette, z06 corvette

[drift freaq]

I should add this as well, who is kicking ass in Gymkhana and Pro Rally? Hint 4 letters and two hot hatches and not Japanese.

I mean I get it, I grew up in a time when the Japanese were ringing bells hard with their cars. That lasted for a good 30 years. Unfortunately they seem to be slipping into the same kind of malaise that hit the American car companies during those same 30 years. Like the American companies back then, the Japanese companies seem to think they can do no wrong in what they make.
I love Nissan but not so much today's Nissan.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

I love Nissan but not so much today's Nissan.

Agreed today's Nissan is boring. Even when they make cool engines they mate them auto only.


I'd love to Nissan drop a boosted 2.5L 4banger couple making 350HP, take the new 3.0T and drop it in a Z and make the GTR even more bad ass.


Of course that will never happen so I am pretty sure at this point my S14 will be the lastest model Nissan I will own.