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Tech Talk Technical Discussion About The Nissan 240SX and Nissan Z Cars |
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08-18-2014, 03:48 PM | #1 |
Zilvia Junkie
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Because NOT Racecar: How to add Sound Insulation to an S14
So, my S14 is not a racecar. If you're reading this, yours probably isn't either. Because my car isn't a racecar, and because I like my Apex'i Worldsport Noir exhaust, and because I also want a premium feel in my car, I'm sound-insulating (not sound-proofing, that's not feasible) my full interior. (On a side note, if you're wondering why my car isn't a race car, check out my ride gallery. Well explained there).
Ok, introduction aside, now lets start. ------------------------------ Estimated Cost (2014 Dollars) not including tool purchases: $300 ($250 for Insulation, $50 for rug doctor, upholstery tool and detergent) Materials (estimated, will update with actual when complete):
Tools
-------------------------------------- Project Overview
1.Strip Interior and Carpet
5.Insulate Rear Seat and Rear Wall of Passenger Compartment 6.Insulate Floor of Passenger Compartment 7.(Highly Recommended) Clean Carpet with Carpet Machine (i.e. Rug Doctor) 8.Re-install Carpet and Interior 9.Remove Door Interior Panels 10.Insulate Doors 11.Re-install Door Panels |
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08-18-2014, 03:58 PM | #3 |
Zilvia Addict
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Glad to see someone else doing this. I plan to at some point in the future. Have you taken any noise level measurements (dB) before the work?
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08-18-2014, 05:32 PM | #4 |
Zilvia Junkie
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No, I have not taken noise measurements. I lack the professional equipment to do so, and my impression is that any amateur attempt (ie an app) would not be worth the time or effort.
Additionally, this is primarily about the qualitative rather than quantitative change. I am interested in stopping the audible gravel ping I hear from the rear wheels and the obvious roar from the exhaust. If that succeeds, it will be worth it to me. I also imagine the difference will be significant enough that a qualitative measure should be demonstrative of the change. |
08-18-2014, 06:21 PM | #6 |
Post Whore!
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If you want to get real fancy you can get some of that expanding high density foam and fill your rockers as well. It'll not only reduce road noise, but stiffen your chassis as well. Has been done and documented.
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08-18-2014, 07:13 PM | #7 |
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I'd be skeptical of expanding foam if you live in an area with high humidity. I've seen some issues with foam and rust.
Wish I knew that peel and stick foam existed when I did this to my s14... |
08-19-2014, 10:49 PM | #8 |
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Yeah, I've thought about the foam since I saw the quiet steel commercial 5 years ago. But I think the tried and true mass loading mat + closed cell foam will achieve enough results for a premium feel.
For those intersted, back seats + rear deck are done, pics and narration soon, my fingers are all bandaged and I'm dead tired tonight. Eta for full project is looking like Thursday. |
08-19-2014, 11:42 PM | #9 |
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I have been thinking of doing this exact thing. I figured since I had to strip my interior to pull my sunroof I might as well stick some dynamat or something down.
if I decide to do so I may take some pics and add to this if that's ok. I was also going to put some in the trunk and behind rear seat area to quiet down exhaust sound but I'm not sure how effective that would be. |
08-19-2014, 11:58 PM | #10 |
Zilvia Junkie
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My install is based on the excellent information on the general principles of how to do this right from the company I bought my materials from.
http://www.raamaudio.com/pages/How%252dTo.html I found this company by reading other installs, and general consensus seems to be that raammat+ensolite is the best price/performace/convenience combination. Almost everyone recommended against dynamat for the same reason no one buys monster hdmi cables. Up to you. |
08-20-2014, 12:06 AM | #11 | |
Post Whore!
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Quote:
Probably better to just put a resonator in your exhaust or get a different one. I hear Luxury Liner works pretty good at keeping sound out though... haven't tried it myself. Also you will be TIRED after doing this... it took me like a week to do 60+ sq ft because it was hot out and just wore me out. I just used 90% isop alcohol and an old/clean T-shirt when wiping the panels down. Also cut slits wherever there were air bubbles to get good adhesion. And yeah, the weight really isn't that much. Last edited by az_240; 08-20-2014 at 03:04 PM.. |
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08-20-2014, 02:21 PM | #13 | |
Zilvia Junkie
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My complete shipping weight for my sound deadening was 39lbs. Worst case, that's what I'm adding to my car. That's the same weight as a grocery run, a cooler with ice and a 6 Pack, my right leg, or a third of a small passenger. For fux sake, this obsession with removing a miniscule amount of weight to reduce the every day functionality of a car is ludicrous. There was one guy trying to strip out the cruise control wiring because "he never used it". Oi! |
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08-20-2014, 04:53 PM | #14 | |
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Quote:
That being said, your not going to make up any significant weight unless you install a custom chassis harness. Back on topic, ive heard its a old racer secret to buy cheap ass blankets from walmart and tear the stuffing out of them and jam pack the empty spaces between the interior and the shell of the car. Supposedly cuts down on huge amounts of noise, mainly absorbing exhaust rasp. Dunno if theirs any truth to it or not. Its something I'm still looking into. |
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08-20-2014, 06:38 PM | #15 |
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Racecar or not, weight affects fuel use and braking and handling.
40lbs. seems like nothing. But every little bit counts. When you spend hours to get at 12.5lbs its hard to go back and add 40 for the sake of comfort. Think of 26mm aluminum brakes people are using to cut back on rotor weight. That just makes sense on a daily. I am not against this at all; Rather I am against the idea of turning up the heat, then turning up the A/C to compensate. In other words, If I spend cash to install a loud exhaust, and then I spend cash to install better sound insulation, I turned up the heat- then turned up the A/C. Should have just left the heat off to begin with. By the way- nice write up. I am interested to see more pictures. I hope you shot everything else you insulated. Very well documented and time spent / effort coordinated. Thank you for sharing. |
08-20-2014, 10:49 PM | #16 | |
Post Whore!
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Quote:
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08-22-2014, 12:40 AM | #17 | ||
Zilvia Junkie
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I understand that new cars and oems do careful tuning at this order of magnitude, but it's not like we're adding dead weight. We're adding a new feature or subsystem. If this were a racing game, this would be a purchaseable option just like suspension or bolt on engine mods. Quote:
A more apt metaphor would be fine scotch. All the pros tell you that you should add water, and everyone (myself included) balks at that at first. Why pay $$$$ for the good stuff and then "water it down." their explanation is that you do what you want with the things you spend your money on. But, if you don't add water, you're missing the subtlety that your paying the money for. Thanks. I did shoot (almost) everything, and pics should be up in the next couple days. |
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08-22-2014, 12:44 AM | #18 | |
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Sound deadening is $300 of materials and 15-20 hours of labor. Don't try to save money on the cheap half and endanger your life. |
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08-23-2014, 09:34 AM | #20 |
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Hey OP, curious as to why you didn't remove the old stock stuff before applying the new sound deadening? I mean I know you don't care much for weight but wouldn't the old sound deadening remove some old dead weight?
I mean I don't know for sure how much the old sound deadening would weight but let's assume that they are the same in weight. Removing and putting a better sound deadening would give you the results you wanted and not adding "dead" weight, am I right? Man, THIS. |
08-23-2014, 01:03 PM | #22 | ||
Zilvia Junkie
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Quote:
Perhaps I was unclear, my exhaust was not loud before, I have the world sport noir and I love it. It's louder than stock and that is something I want. But as many other people have said and can attest to, mid 90s sound deadening leaves a lot of refinement to be desired. This was about refinement, not silence. Because I like metaphors, I wanted a Symphony hall exhaust experience not an outdoor rock concert. Full, deep, and resonant rather than simply loud. Quote:
In terms of my end goal, I wanted more sound deadening, not just different sound deadening. To use (another) metaphor, I could have removed the 3" ratchet extension and used a 6" extension. But I wanted 9" of extra reach, so... |
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08-24-2014, 01:32 PM | #24 | |
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Rotational VS. Unsprung weight
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08-24-2014, 06:59 PM | #27 | |
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Quote:
On another note, people don't really realize just how much noise is coming from the engine through the firewall. The VAST majority of what you think is exhaust noise is actually engine noise coming through the firewall. Those are Tenzo pedals. They're not race pedals, they're RICE pedals... |
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08-25-2014, 05:57 PM | #28 | |||
Zilvia Junkie
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Quote:
3 hours still seems a silly waste to me given my purpose. Quote:
Quote:
I'm going for a gt car. I'm not sure I need "race pedals. " in fact, I think you'll find metal or metal-look petals in past every contemporary production car. They are not race car, either. On a related note, I would be intersted (in another thread) in trying to nail down the meaning of "rice." I understand the concept, I know it when I see it, but that's not a definition. Racepar1, you are by no means responsible for solving this and you are not wrong for calling those pedals what they are. But, it occurs to me that it could be an interesting discussion. |
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08-25-2014, 07:28 PM | #29 |
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Rice (modern definition) is often a slow car, driving fast / loud /carelessly (pointlessly loud, speeding 60mph in a school zone with 105 horsepower) often bound to uneducated short sighted owners
The Opposite is quick car, driving slow / quiet example 95 240sx with stock exhaust / stock sidemount / stock wheels + sr20det So many people are let down when they finally realize... it isn't actually stock. Street rules are different then race car rules. The stock sr20det + 240sx combo rules the street for most comparable 90's technology in the $5k price bracket IMO, partially due to chassis weight and partially due to it's inherent potential for reliability, economy, and perhaps more important, re-sale ability and long-term value when installed properly (which almost never happens). |
08-26-2014, 10:37 AM | #30 | ||
Zilvia Junkie
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1. It's primarily about the driver, not the car 2. It doesnt explain rice-y 240sx because a stock ka pumps out 150 per sticker (please no debates about hp vs. Whp) 3. It doesnt encompass the original impetus in this thread (mainly my cheapo petals) 4. It is broad enough that it's purely a measure of taste (i.e. What's pointlessly loud). Which, I suppose, it really is, but I think we could be a little more precise Quote:
And stock rims can never be said to be on a nicly modified car (this is my opinion, but 1995 was not a good year for oe alloy wheels). It's just such a simple modification with so many quality and affordable choices that it smacks of laziness to leave stock rims on a car you've put any money into. |
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how to, insulator, interior, not racecar, sound deadener |
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