clutch fan delete. DO's and DON'Ts - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

S14Cuhh · 01-25-2009, 07:39 PM

..on a kaDE setup. what do you people out there have to say

-definitely gonna run an e-fan but besides that

singlecamslam · 01-25-2009, 08:13 PM

Clutch fan with shroud is the best most efficient set up.

palmdale_mob · 01-25-2009, 08:15 PM

^^ Seriously?

projectRDM · 01-25-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palmdale_mob

^^ Seriously?

Welcome to Earth. Yes. A clutch fan can move more air than any electric fan and with less drag on the engine. A good size electric fan can pull up to 30amps, putting a drain on the alternator and forcing it to work harder. The clutch fan is bolted to the water pump, it's not much more effort to turn the clutch than to just turn the pump alone. With the shroud in place you're directing 100% of the air through the radiator, maximizing it's efficiency too, keeping the coolant that much cooler overall.

That said, a lot of people remove it to gain room or to reduce noise and do fine with electric fans, and as any FWD car owner can attest to an electric fan does the job fine, but it's only because a clutch fan wouldn't work on a transverse layout.

!Zar! · 01-25-2009, 08:40 PM

Zilvia to the rescue.

projectRDM is 100% right.

palmdale_mob · 01-25-2009, 08:46 PM

^^ Good stuff
I thought that w/o the clutch fan its less weight for the belts to spin, therefore more hp
So even if its deleted that makes the alternator work harder for an electric fan so its kind of a lose-lose on the gaining hp aspect?

projectRDM · 01-25-2009, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palmdale_mob

^^ Good stuff
I thought that w/o the clutch fan its less weight for the belts to spin, therefore more hp
So even if its deleted that makes the alternator work harder for an electric fan so its kind of a lose-lose on the gaining hp aspect?

Exactly. You're not gaining anything by just replacing one draw with another one. Take a clutch and fan off and weigh it, it's virtually nothing. Any gains achieved by removing it are so negligible you'd never notice it.

That being said though, I do not run a clutch fan due to fitment issues. But I also have a very nice shroud that I spent a lot of time making and plenty of ducting in front of it so my two electric fans at least still direct 100% of the airflow needed through the radiator. Simply placing one big fan or even a pair on the radiator's core with those little ziptie deals results in the air blowing across the entire core support, above, below, and around the radiator. Remember that when you're driving the air coming through the radiator is pushing against the air you're creating from the fan. Not channeling it correctly leads to a greater loss of directed airflow. That big fan may do wonders when the car is sitting still but without a proper shroud it's not worth much when moving.

palmdale_mob · 01-25-2009, 08:59 PM

Wow I just learned something, thanks man

slow40sx · 01-25-2009, 09:06 PM

makes sense but i think i'll stick with my slim-fans and air diversion panel

HyperTek · 01-25-2009, 09:09 PM

this might give you some ideas to do it right if you do it.
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/233498...ro-gt-fan.html

Make sure you get a fan with a shroud.. Good junkyard fans are ford Taurus 3.8l fan, and pontiac fiero GT... since they both have shrouds and fit the rads pretty good with little to no trimming.

Dont skimp on wiring.. and you should have a good idea of how things work.. so you dont want to be out driving and see your temps skyrocket and not be able to pull over and quickly diagnose why your fan didnt cool etc etc.

gyula hlavati · 01-25-2009, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palmdale_mob

Wow I just learned something, thanks man

^^^
Same here.

juice.def · 01-26-2009, 12:04 AM

Clutch fan coming through with the clutch....

!Zar! · 01-26-2009, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juice.def

Clutch fan coming through with the clutch....

Wait...

wut?

khmer1 · 01-26-2009, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperTek

this might give you some ideas to do it right if you do it.
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/233498...ro-gt-fan.html

Make sure you get a fan with a shroud.. Good junkyard fans are ford Taurus 3.8l fan, and pontiac fiero GT... since they both have shrouds and fit the rads pretty good with little to no trimming.

Dont skimp on wiring.. and you should have a good idea of how things work.. so you dont want to be out driving and see your temps skyrocket and not be able to pull over and quickly diagnose why your fan didnt cool etc etc.

what year taurus for the people that dont know

g6civcx · 01-26-2009, 07:46 AM

On my V8 I would have preferred to use a clutch fan and shroud, but due to engine placement so far back I couldn't find a clutch fan long enough to fit.

I'm using FAL fans which should only pull 19.5A, but the fans still drive the electronics in my car crazy with noise.

DDSR240 · 01-26-2009, 08:33 AM

First off I wouldn't think that the wieght of the clutch fan wouldbe what causes the most drag it would most certianly be the air resistance it encounters when its trying move x amount of cfm. then you said that it makes the alternator work harder well couldn't you just get a higher amp alternator out of that pathfinder I think its like a 90 amp. Then all you havee to do is choose wisely on you e fan set-up= low current draw+high cfm electric motors are getting more efficiant every day. Not that I'm bashing clutch fans but e-fans are not that bad.

murda-c · 01-26-2009, 08:40 AM

I pulled my clutch fan off without replacing it with another fan kekekeke.

my clutch was seized and i got tired of it sounding like a ups truck.

doesn't overheat because i don't sit in traffic, i'll replace it before summer though.

projectRDM · 01-26-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDSR240

First off I wouldn't think that the wieght of the clutch fan wouldbe what causes the most drag it would most certianly be the air resistance it encounters when its trying move x amount of cfm. then you said that it makes the alternator work harder well couldn't you just get a higher amp alternator out of that pathfinder I think its like a 90 amp. Then all you havee to do is choose wisely on you e fan set-up= low current draw+high cfm electric motors are getting more efficiant every day. Not that I'm bashing clutch fans but e-fans are not that bad.

No one said electric fans are bad. They're fine. They're not as efficient as a clutch fan, simple. A higher output alternator, say even a 110A Quest model will still require more draw as it loads up, and as most Nissan alternators do the gains in amperage are only at higher RPMs, the 90A Zenki SE model outputs the same amperage as the base 80A below 4k RPM. So at idle and cruising speeds a larger alternator isn't doing any better than what you already had.

IStop4NoMan · 01-26-2009, 04:01 PM

I had dual FAL fans with the DIF dual fan controller and it was drawing a serious amount of power when both fans were running. i had to ditch the miata sized battery i had since 5 seconds of the fans on would drop the voltage below 13Volts. I upgraded to a stronger battery and didnt have the voltage problem.
Eventually i went back to the clutch fan and i cant tell a difference in power, but my average temps are only 140 degrees F. I guess the koyo aluminum rad is overkill with the clutch fan haha.

NissanGuy16 · 01-26-2009, 07:22 PM

My s14 has a stock electric fan for the A/C which comes on when the A/C is on or then the motor reaches a certain temperature. The clutch in my belt driven fan seized so I took it off. "UPS truck" LMAO that's exactly what it sounds like. I have no cooling problems with my car and I live an hour away from Myrtle Beach so it gets hot here during the summer.

projectRDM · 01-26-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NissanGuy16

My s14 has a stock electric fan for the A/C which comes on when the A/C is on or then the motor reaches a certain temperature. The clutch in my belt driven fan seized so I took it off. "UPS truck" LMAO that's exactly what it sounds like. I have no cooling problems with my car and I live an hour away from Myrtle Beach so it gets hot here during the summer.

We know this. All Schassis cars have an electric fan as a supplement to the clutch fan. On S14s it's a 2speed unit, low speed comes on at 203 degrees, high speed at 212 or when the A/C switch is engaged. No one said you have to run the clutch fan, it's usually fine without it as long as your cooling system is up to par, but it cools better and more efficiently with it installed.

Keith_Bergen · 01-26-2009, 07:37 PM

I had to ditch my clutch fan due to the blades cracking and almost ready to break off, so i bought myself an fal dual electric designed for my 240, uses the mounts for the stock a/c electric fan which makes it super easy to install, really cleans up the engine bay, covers the entire rad surface area so there is no bypass of the fans so you get best efficiency, and is also wired through a constant so it cools after the car is turned off, never had a problem with battery draw, and also wired to turn on when a/c is on like the stock electric did. I love it and would never go back to the stock clutch fan

96Turbo · 01-26-2009, 08:00 PM

Sorta off topic...but how do you recommend ducting a push-fan setup? Instead of building ducting around the fan and rad (on a pull setup), would i want to duct as much air from the inlet in my bumper to the front of the rad? (i'm thinking like a sheet metal "tunnel" surrounding the rad).

I know it's not ideal (pushing vs. pulling)....but i have no other choice after stuffing in a straight 6 (at least i haven't found any fans slim enough yet...)

projectRDM · 01-26-2009, 09:45 PM

Juts like you said it, make a tunnel to direct airflow to the fan from the bumper opening. Start with cardboard to get your pieces right then step up to sheetmetal, that way you're only making the cuts once. Use door edge guard on the edges to prevent cutting anything and foam tape to seal it tight.

WERDdabuilder · 01-26-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juice.def

Clutch fan coming through with the clutch....

will you be at the laugh factory this week?

LA_phantom_240 · 01-26-2009, 09:59 PM

I removed my OEM fan:
1) For more room in the engine bay.
2) Cause I had Altima fans laying around.
3) Cause I don't like sounding like a dump truck when accelerating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by projectRDM

On S14s it's a 2speed unit, low speed comes on at 203 degrees, high speed at 212 or when the A/C switch is engaged.

This I didn't know. I thought it was just high temp or A/C. I have to rewire my fans soon anyway, so I think I'm gonna try to take advantage of this.

ryguy · 01-26-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NissanGuy16

I have no cooling problems with my car and I live an hour away from Myrtle Beach so it gets hot here during the summer.

Same here, I have owned two S13s, neither of which had any kind of fan on them (besides the stock electric fan). I have 100 degree+ summers, and lots of traffic. Pfft, fan schman.

Mister.E · 01-26-2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryguy

Same here, I have owned two S13s, neither of which had any kind of fan on them (besides the stock electric fan). I have 100 degree+ summers, and lots of traffic. Pfft, fan schman.

it may not make any difference in stop and go traffic or just normal daily driving, but it is crucial to have your shit setup properly if you are hitting the track.

projectRDM · 01-26-2009, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA_phantom_240

This I didn't know. I thought it was just high temp or A/C. I have to rewire my fans soon anyway, so I think I'm gonna try to take advantage of this.

The best way is to use two more relays and leg them off the OE signal from the ECU. That way both fans can be used for both low and high speeds. Fuse the input power to 30A each just like the original circuits.

*wangan_cruiser* · 01-26-2009, 11:16 PM

i have a ford taurus e fan with the shroud. never had the problem.

01-25-2009, 07:39 PM	#1
S14Cuhh Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: 562 Posts: 1,365 Trader Rating: (23) Feedback Score: 23 reviews	clutch fan delete. DO's and DON'Ts ..on a kaDE setup. what do you people out there have to say -definitely gonna run an e-fan but besides that

01-25-2009, 08:13 PM	#2
singlecamslam Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Norcal Posts: 2,534 Trader Rating: (10) Feedback Score: 10 reviews	Clutch fan with shroud is the best most efficient set up. __________________ Nothing says racecar like a stock car with no interior.

01-25-2009, 08:40 PM	#5
!Zar! Post Whore! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Korea Posts: 14,579 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	Zilvia to the rescue. projectRDM is 100% right. __________________

01-25-2009, 09:06 PM	#9
slow40sx Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 1,979 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	makes sense but i think i'll stick with my slim-fans and air diversion panel __________________

01-25-2009, 09:09 PM	#10
HyperTek Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 13,224 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	this might give you some ideas to do it right if you do it. http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/233498...ro-gt-fan.html Make sure you get a fan with a shroud.. Good junkyard fans are ford Taurus 3.8l fan, and pontiac fiero GT... since they both have shrouds and fit the rads pretty good with little to no trimming. Dont skimp on wiring.. and you should have a good idea of how things work.. so you dont want to be out driving and see your temps skyrocket and not be able to pull over and quickly diagnose why your fan didnt cool etc etc. __________________ Keep it Classy

01-25-2009, 08:15 PM	#3
palmdale_mob Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: CA Age: 33 Posts: 825 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	^^ Seriously?

01-25-2009, 08:46 PM	#6
palmdale_mob Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: CA Age: 33 Posts: 825 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	^^ Good stuff I thought that w/o the clutch fan its less weight for the belts to spin, therefore more hp So even if its deleted that makes the alternator work harder for an electric fan so its kind of a lose-lose on the gaining hp aspect?

01-25-2009, 08:59 PM	#8
palmdale_mob Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: CA Age: 33 Posts: 825 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	Wow I just learned something, thanks man

01-26-2009, 12:04 AM	#12
juice.def Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Northern Califoolya Age: 36 Posts: 456 Trader Rating: (9) Feedback Score: 9 reviews	Clutch fan coming through with the clutch.... __________________

01-26-2009, 07:46 AM	#15
g6civcx Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 5,764 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	On my V8 I would have preferred to use a clutch fan and shroud, but due to engine placement so far back I couldn't find a clutch fan long enough to fit. I'm using FAL fans which should only pull 19.5A, but the fans still drive the electronics in my car crazy with noise.

01-26-2009, 08:33 AM	#16
DDSR240 Zilvia Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: South Carolina Age: 37 Posts: 259 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	First off I wouldn't think that the wieght of the clutch fan wouldbe what causes the most drag it would most certianly be the air resistance it encounters when its trying move x amount of cfm. then you said that it makes the alternator work harder well couldn't you just get a higher amp alternator out of that pathfinder I think its like a 90 amp. Then all you havee to do is choose wisely on you e fan set-up= low current draw+high cfm electric motors are getting more efficiant every day. Not that I'm bashing clutch fans but e-fans are not that bad. __________________

01-26-2009, 08:40 AM	#17
murda-c Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montgomery County, MD Age: 36 Posts: 3,197 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I pulled my clutch fan off without replacing it with another fan kekekeke. my clutch was seized and i got tired of it sounding like a ups truck. doesn't overheat because i don't sit in traffic, i'll replace it before summer though. __________________

01-26-2009, 04:01 PM	#19
IStop4NoMan Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: so cal Posts: 310 Trader Rating: (13) Feedback Score: 13 reviews	I had dual FAL fans with the DIF dual fan controller and it was drawing a serious amount of power when both fans were running. i had to ditch the miata sized battery i had since 5 seconds of the fans on would drop the voltage below 13Volts. I upgraded to a stronger battery and didnt have the voltage problem. Eventually i went back to the clutch fan and i cant tell a difference in power, but my average temps are only 140 degrees F. I guess the koyo aluminum rad is overkill with the clutch fan haha.

01-26-2009, 07:22 PM	#20
NissanGuy16 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North Carolina Posts: 8 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	My s14 has a stock electric fan for the A/C which comes on when the A/C is on or then the motor reaches a certain temperature. The clutch in my belt driven fan seized so I took it off. "UPS truck" LMAO that's exactly what it sounds like. I have no cooling problems with my car and I live an hour away from Myrtle Beach so it gets hot here during the summer.

01-26-2009, 07:37 PM	#22
Keith_Bergen Join Date: May 2008 Location: Manitoba Age: 34 Posts: 45 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I had to ditch my clutch fan due to the blades cracking and almost ready to break off, so i bought myself an fal dual electric designed for my 240, uses the mounts for the stock a/c electric fan which makes it super easy to install, really cleans up the engine bay, covers the entire rad surface area so there is no bypass of the fans so you get best efficiency, and is also wired through a constant so it cools after the car is turned off, never had a problem with battery draw, and also wired to turn on when a/c is on like the stock electric did. I love it and would never go back to the stock clutch fan

01-26-2009, 08:00 PM	#23
96Turbo Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: AZ Age: 35 Posts: 1,315 Trader Rating: (11) Feedback Score: 11 reviews	Sorta off topic...but how do you recommend ducting a push-fan setup? Instead of building ducting around the fan and rad (on a pull setup), would i want to duct as much air from the inlet in my bumper to the front of the rad? (i'm thinking like a sheet metal "tunnel" surrounding the rad). I know it's not ideal (pushing vs. pulling)....but i have no other choice after stuffing in a straight 6 (at least i haven't found any fans slim enough yet...)

01-26-2009, 09:45 PM	#24
projectRDM Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Atlanta Age: 50 Posts: 13,812 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	Juts like you said it, make a tunnel to direct airflow to the fan from the bumper opening. Start with cardboard to get your pieces right then step up to sheetmetal, that way you're only making the cuts once. Use door edge guard on the edges to prevent cutting anything and foam tape to seal it tight. __________________ FORMERLY R240NA Learn what's really going on and protect your assets now before they're gone forever: www.paypalsucks.com

01-26-2009, 11:16 PM	#30
wangan_cruiser kouki man Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: downtown oakland,ca Age: 39 Posts: 3,535 Trader Rating: (36) Feedback Score: 36 reviews	i have a ford taurus e fan with the shroud. never had the problem.