Any MMA fans here?

[BlitzRPS13]

Yea i don't think cain is ready just yet to beat brock.. cain has alot of potential... but he's still improving. I think junior dos santos definitely deserves to be up there aswell.. his standup is amazing.. but we haven't seen him fight much on the ground. Roy nelson will be a good test for jds.... nelson is a fat but slippery and experienced fighter.

I'll say this about ufc116.. i paid $60 to watch it on hd and i watched it alone.. and it was one of the best events they've had in a long time. I usually try and get a whole bunch of people together.. but it doesn't always work out that way.

[OptionZero]

Originally Posted by amdnivram

wow do you even know how to make a point? I mean seriously if your going to disagree atleast say something. Yeah i've seen Cain's fights and i don't think his stand up is enough to overwhelm Brock, and im sure brocks extra weight is a huge advantage when it comes to his wrestling and ground game. I never said Cain has no ground game, im just saying that its not enough to go against Brock.

I mean really, i cant remember how many times everyone said the same thing about Brock losing to Carwin, but look at what happened. He didnt get caught, he was just dominated in the second and put away. Everyone was saying that his stand up was enough to destroy brock, and that his div 2 wrestling was enough to stop the ground. Now im not saying Brock cant lose since he does need alot more experience to be great, but he isn't someone to just scoff at. Love him or hate him you just cant deny that hes doing great for the amount of mma experience.

Weight and power aren't the be-all-and-end-all factors in wrestling . . . this thing called SKILL matters too. Brock's takedowns are virtually all double legs; there's no variation to them.

Brock had to work to take RANDY COUTURE down, and Couture is smaller and older than Cain Velasquez. Pretty sure Velasquez has dealt with bigger guys before when wrasslin for ASU.

Brock will have trouble getting down Velasquez down, more trouble than he had in the first round of Carwin and in the Couture fight.


Another point courtesy of Jordan Breen:
Lesnar has a big reach advantage but will have to concede that advantage since he'll want to get inside to take Cain down. Cain is good in the clinch.

Moreover, Cain has shown picture perfect leg kicks against all of his opponents. While kicks normally open up takedowns, Cain has shown that he integrates his striking into his wrestling to avoid being predictable.

It's gonna be a great fight and anyone counting out Cain is stupid.

[upsdude]

didnt lesnar win an ncaa wrestling title? at least he's proven to be mre than hype as opposed to kimbo

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

If you're on the ground and someone is trying to punch you, how would you defend your self?

Covering your face and pushing the attacker away with your legs seems like a VERY intelligent defense to me.

If you ever see me cover my face for more than a few seconds, I'm pretty much done and you can throw in the towel, but that's just me.

This is because I KNOW how to effectively defend against strikes from the top. If I cover up this pretty much means I'm already out or I just don't have any energy to defend properly. Either way it's a wrap.


Now for a Greco guy to do cover up probably wouldn't be a big deal since most likely they don't know how to defend, or even if they've trained enough, their instinct is just to cover up and push away because they're not comfortable on their back. So even if they're perfectly fine they'll still cover up.


I think for this situation you have to know the fighter really well to make a good call.


The early stoppage doesn't bug me as much as inattentiveness by the ref. You can't miss stuff like grabbing the fence, grabbing shorts, nuts kicked, elbow on nut, eye gouching, biting, etc.

I'd rather have early stoppage because at least it shows the ref is paying attention.

We can always do a rematch and make Dana even more money. No harm in that.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

Again . . . what is intelligent defense, if not covering up and blocking punches?

You're a fan of other sports, right? In football, basketball, or baseball, whatever, do refs stop a game because the other team gets a lead? Does a baseball game end when one team is up 3 runs? Does a football game end when the first touchdown is scored?

HELL NO.

The game continues to the end, because then we're certain who the winner is.

That craptastic "intelligent defense" line is a crappy standard AND the refs that enforce it have been woeful.

I want to KNOW who won a fight, not just the fighter who was able to land a good punch or the fighter who appeared to be ahead.

With Lesnar/Carwin, we KNOW who won - Lesnar. Carwin tapped. Lesnar didn't. Lesnar's the better fighter. Clear as can be, and we can now talk about all the things we learned: Lesnar has heart, Carwin has poor decision making, and LESNAR GOT JIU JITSU!

Dude how can you even compare the NBA, NFL, etc to MMA. They NEVER stop a game no matter what anyway. So it;s nothing like MMA. Apples to Oranges man.

Yes, Lesner won, but IMO only because the refs were willing to let it go (which I think they should have. I hate early stoppages. But I agree with them when needed. I'd rather see a fight stopped even if the fighter doesn't think it's necessary then to see them seriously injured), and because Carwin punched himself out.

Even as the champ Lesner had more to prove last night. He had to prove that he wasn't MMA's biggest douche (still up in the air), and that he has recovered from his illness.

No matter what, like I said, another great rivalry has been born.

[MitchellBade]

I think once Carwin works on his endurance more then he will dethrone Brock. Carwin was dominating Brock, then he got winded, and then lost. I like both of these fighters, but probably Carwin more because he is a nice and humble guy and my jaw dropped when he was doing work on Brock. Now that Carwin has faced Brock, he will be better prepared for next time. If Carwin ever gets to the stamina of Brock, then I think Carwin will hold the belt for a very long time. It was a good fight none-the-less and definitely got my moneys worth.

[upsdude]

well even if lesnar is the biggest douche, it'll sell tickets. not all good fighters are humble people.

[BOROSUN]

Originally Posted by upsdude

didnt lesnar win an ncaa wrestling title? at least he's proven to be mre than hype as opposed to kimbo

lol, no need to be proven. good wrestling have always been a great base (lnp). unlike a brawler guy who thinks he can strike. if kimbo ( or any fighter) had any amount of great boxing like james toney then a lot of fighter would be in trouble.



anyways,

they teach you to sprawl out if you can or try to get him on your guard(half also work) by grabbing opponent close to you, head to chest or controlling the head to control him from posturing up. brock didn't do neither. you know why...he was getting fucked up! the ref did let it go, but whatever in the end carwin gave up.

[amdnivram]

Originally Posted by MitchellBade

I think once Carwin works on his endurance more then he will dethrone Brock. Carwin was dominating Brock, then he got winded, and then lost. I like both of these fighters, but probably Carwin more because he is a nice and humble guy and my jaw dropped when he was doing work on Brock. Now that Carwin has faced Brock, he will be better prepared for next time. If Carwin ever gets to the stamina of Brock, then I think Carwin will hold the belt for a very long time. It was a good fight none-the-less and definitely got my moneys worth.

i would completely agree with this, if Brock would stay as he is now. Obviously fighters evolve so i doubt Brock will be the same as he was in this fight.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

Again . . . what is intelligent defense, if not covering up and blocking punches?

You're a fan of other sports, right? In football, basketball, or baseball, whatever, do refs stop a game because the other team gets a lead? Does a baseball game end when one team is up 3 runs? Does a football game end when the first touchdown is scored?

HELL NO.

The game continues to the end, because then we're certain who the winner is.

That craptastic "intelligent defense" line is a crappy standard AND the refs that enforce it have been woeful.

I want to KNOW who won a fight, not just the fighter who was able to land a good punch or the fighter who appeared to be ahead.

With Lesnar/Carwin, we KNOW who won - Lesnar. Carwin tapped. Lesnar didn't. Lesnar's the better fighter. Clear as can be, and we can now talk about all the things we learned: Lesnar has heart, Carwin has poor decision making, and LESNAR GOT JIU JITSU!

Fuck it...let them fight to the DEATH!!! If the other guy is only in a coma...its a fucking DRAW!!!

[ZenkiKid]

Cain Vs Lesnar could happen as soon as 119

[sw20>>s14]

okay, first of all, no one is taking the win away from brock, he weathered the storm and sinked in the choke...hell, im a brock fan, but was rootin for carwin to win (dont you hate being split; e.g. penn vs. gsp)...i think everyone elses point is that there was a high possibility that the fight SHOULD have been stopped but was never acknowledged...no one can reverse the time of events, but something didnt add up...

i realize that its a high profile fight and its better to have a handful of people arguing that it should have than stopped opposed to a slew of people revolting that it was stopped prematurely...

but the point is (mind you i may be wrong because i havent had time to rewatch the fight and we were pretty faded/loud at my friends house) rosenthal never gave brock verbal warnings to protect himself...the usual protocol is after a huge knockdown, the ref comes in for closer examination...after a few unanswered shots, he verbally warns the person to move or do something...rosenthal never did, so lets not even talk about the fight needing to be ended, rosenthal never acknowledged that brock was in trouble, when we can all agree that he was...if thats not slack, i dont know what is...

i said it earlier, john or herb should have reffed the fight...i know its being over dramatic, but i would argue that rosenthal was a tad biased and didnt do his job...

to all that state that brock clearly wasnt hurt entering the second round...thats moot...who knows what he was going through, adrenaline and other factors alter a fighters state dramatically e.g. nut shots, illegal elbows, or illegal strikes while downed and still wanting to continue...

victory or loss aside, rosenthal should have stopped it for brocks safety...as it played out, only a few light shots and a huge elbow got through when brock was in trouble, but what if there were more threatening ones? brock could have had his clock cleaned and still relying on instinct want to continue if it was up to rosenthal...per the rules and NSAC's standpoint, i would argue that brock was "textbook" tko'd...

again, glad brock won, knowing to give up the full mount to transition into an arm triangle was beautiful and he definitely earned the w, but its more a matter of equity...

[soreballz]

^dude, you're putting wayyyyy too much thought into this.

[BOROSUN]

just watch the post fight interview. brock admits and thanks the ref for not stopping the fight.

/the end

its dream time! no big fights until august.

[GabeS14]

Originally Posted by sw20>>s14

rosenthal never gave brock verbal warnings to protect himself...the usual protocol is after a huge knockdown, the ref comes in for closer examination...after a few unanswered shots, he verbally warns the person to move or do something...rosenthal never did, so lets not even talk about the fight needing to be ended, rosenthal never acknowledged that brock was in trouble, when we can all agree that he was...if thats not slack, i dont know what is...
...

there is the point you missed:
brock was defending himself very well.. maybe for the fact that he has forearms and biceps about the size of my waist, when he curled his arms up to cover his face it pretty much blocked all the side and middle access to his face.
but he also defended many of the punches by reaching out and holding the arm or just blocking.
I remember thinking "good at least he isn't just covering up and giving up, he is being smart and looking at the punches and defending as much as he can"
How else do you defend from punches from above?

I didn't think the ref would stop it because he could tell brock was ok.

Brock got pretty bruised but he wasn't out or near being out at any time. so I dont see why the ref should have stopped anything???

when someone is being seriously punished and they pretty much stop fighting and cover upbecause they cant take the beating anymore..thats a reason to stop the fight.


keep in mind I missed the fight and watched it calmly at home with no pressure or exitement the next day.

[exitspeed]

Sis you guys see WEC on Father's Day? You probably already talked about it, but DAMN those were some good ass fights.

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by GabeS14

he curled his arms up to cover his face it pretty much blocked all the side and middle access to his face.
but he also defended many of the punches by reaching out and holding the arm or just blocking.
I remember thinking "good at least he isn't just covering up and giving up, he is being smart and looking at the punches and defending as much as he can"
How else do you defend from punches from above?

There are many more ways.

Control the top guy's position, especially his torso. Move his weight around to throw him off his balance.

Control the biceps and head.

Attack with subs.

Escape and stand up.

Sweep.

[GabeS14]

Originally Posted by g6civcx

There are many more ways.

Control the top guy's position, especially his torso. Move his weight around to throw him off his balance.

Control the biceps and head.

Attack with subs.

Escape and stand up.

Sweep.

And I beleive he did most of those, thats why i said what more could he do.. when someone starts with a flurry of punches, somethime the best thing to do to regain your composure is cover up as best as you can then go on from there..
if your not able to cause damage to someone curled up..then you really suck..lol

[BOROSUN]

man, that's just wrong gabe. if you do that; you will get a stoppage, you will eat more punches, and it gives your opponent a chance for a better position.


is this what we're going to talk about all summer long? lol

[ZenkiKid]

[BOROSUN]

Woot machida wants rashad for internchamp. Originally, he wanted a rubber match but shogun is out. Injury like this is why bas retired and of course still very young is not a good sign.

[ZenkiKid]

I dont see why Lyoto deserves an interim shot right away when he got destroyed in the second fight

[GabeS14]

Originally Posted by ZenkiKid

I dont see why Lyoto deserves an interim shot right away when he got destroyed in the second fight

Well probably for his record up to the time of his loss..
I for one, dont like this interim champ thing, i think there should be at least 3 other fights before determining the replacement champ.

[BOROSUN]

Lol destroyed is the wrong word. If I'm wrong then duffee got destroyed by the blob and fedor got destroyed.

Who can stop machida, anyways?
Why not shut the doubters (me) for good With shogun totally dominating machida.

[sw20>>s14]

Originally Posted by BOROSUN

Lol destroyed is the wrong word. If I'm wrong then duffee got destroyed by the blob and fedor got destroyed.

Who can stop machida, anyways?
Why not shut the doubters (me) for good With shogun totally dominating machida.

sorry, i think destroyed is an appropriate term

[BOROSUN]

Wow, if machida was destroyed...then Forrest must have totally dominated that ass. Gooo Forrest, he wiped shogun like a wet dodo !!

[exitspeed]

Yeah, I'm gonna go with destroyed too.

[GabeS14]

Originally Posted by BOROSUN

Wow, if machida was destroyed...then Forrest must have totally dominated that ass. Gooo Forrest, he wiped shogun like a wet dodo !!

common, a guy gassing and being uber out of shape and fat doesn't totally count.. we all know it would be totally different if they fought nowadays, by the way I would love to see that rematch, like revenge,

[ViciousCesar!]

IMO Shogun already got his revenge on Griffin... the night of UFC 113, Shogun was on espn's MMA live looking like the happiest fighter on the planet holding his title over his shoulder. Then later they interviewed Forrest and he was extremely sad and emo discussing his injuries and some other shit. i lol'd.

[ViciousCesar!]

according to Dana, MIr vs Nog II @ UFC 119. and also rumored for 119, Pride/K-1 veteran Mark Hunt might make his UFC debut against undefeated HW Sean McCorkle.