Mosque being built near Ground Zero

[Drift N Dragg]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Christianity IS a fabricated religion and the LDS church isn't any crazier than any of the others.

Is it? I would like to see your Proof on this...

You said your OPINION was based of many types of churches you attend, correct?

But you STATED, Christianity IS a fabricated .. That does not sound like a Opinion...

Please, I am honestly very curious on you input ..

[BustedS13]

Originally Posted by 5pecialist

Mormons are a make believe religion. Sorry.

this is the problem with religious arguments. you guys always take your ball and go home.

Is it? I would like to see your Proof on this...

You said your OPINION was based of many types of churches you attend, correct?

But you STATED, Christianity IS a fabricated .. That does not sound like a Opinion...

Please, I am honestly very curious on you input ..

everything we have has come from man. you have no proof that the men who wrote the bible were actually channeling God. it's a lot more believable that they were either batshit crazy or trying to make a buck.

[Drift N Dragg]

Originally Posted by BustedS13

everything we have has come from man. you have no proof that the men who wrote the bible were actually channeling God. it's a lot more believable that they were either batshit crazy or trying to make a buck.

Again, you also have no proof that it wasn't GOD Channeling.

Not everything comes from man.

This is a Issue that can not be won.. Because no one can go back 20,000 Years to find out.

Originally Posted by BustedS13

this is the problem with religious arguments. you guys always take your ball and go home.

Same is said about your Religious Argument.

Seems to me, that it is your point that you want right. So bring the ball back.

[kingkilburn]

I'll start with Jesus.
In Judaism there is a specific list of things the Messiah must be and also must not be. These things are nonnegotiable and set in stone. Jesus of Nazareth did not fit the bill. He is not the only Jew to claim to be the Messiah but he is one of the most far fetched.

Then we have the accounts of his life. They are all very conflicting and written way after the fact. Now I don't doubt the guy lived in that place and time but there is no way any self respecting Jew did much of any of the things that are attributed to him.

It all goes down hill from there. As the Catholics and Orthodox churches moved further away from Judaism they seem to have lost their connection to what is actually in the bible, specifically the old testament.





My opinion on the Morman church comes from years of searching for God myself. I went from church to church and non of it felt right. The best I could find were the Mormans. If you are going to believe that Jesus is your savior that is not a bad group of friends to have. They were all good people to me. I don't agree with some of the things the church leadership does but the people, the heart of the faith , are good.

What moved me out of christianity was my continued search for God. I ended up in a Chabad shul. Their ideas on God and faith, religion in general more aligned with what I was looking for.

After going and discussing many varying things with them I am still not convinced there even is a God.

Now my mind is going all over the place with different thoughts and ideas on the subject. lol
If there are any more specific questions on the subject you have for me you are welcome to ask. You will probably get a better answer that way too.



I know saying things like this are controversial but I'm not saying it to attack any one for what they believe. These are the conclusions I have come up with after trying to look at the facts of Christianity and Judaism scientifically and historically.

[Drift N Dragg]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

I'll start with Jesus.

I have to say this ... Very well put together..

I am doing a Anthropology Report and this thread seems to be a good basis .. But I am impressed with your statement

[kingkilburn]

Thank you.

[SR240DET]

Originally Posted by Drift N Dragg

Again, you also have no proof that it wasn't GOD Channeling.

Not everything comes from man.

This is a Issue that can not be won.. Because no one can go back 20,000 Years to find out.

The ones making the claim must provide the evidence. Right now there is no proof.

[ESmorz]

Shut the fuck up. People the whole world over just need to shut the fuck up. Some brohammys wanna build a god damn Muslim Community Center dedicated to
their version of the man in the sky, all the power to them.

Technology and World Circumstances vs. The Progression of Morality and Beliefs... is an amusing and frustrating game to watch from the sidelines.

[ronmcdon]

Originally Posted by SR240DET

The ones making the claim must provide the evidence. Right now there is no proof.

Well in science I think that's the general idea.
Like you said, the 'burden of proof' falls on those making the claim.

Also, it theoretically impossible to disprove anything other than math.
Can you disprove there's a magic dragon living inside your house/apartment (assuming you live in one) ?
That's impossible.

[kingkilburn]

It's rather hard to prove a negative.

Can you prove there is a magical dragon? Until you can, all available info/data says there isn't.

[BustedS13]

here's a link to donate to the Cordoba Initiative.

Donate | Cordoba

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

Well in science I think that's the general idea.
Like you said, the 'burden of proof' falls on those making the claim.

Also, it theoretically impossible to disprove anything other than math.
Can you disprove there's a magic dragon living inside your house/apartment (assuming you live in one) ?
That's impossible.

Even Math can not be "proven." There is a infinite number of integers between 0 and 1.

[kingkilburn]

And if you would like one found I can FIND and DOCUMENT it. Math is ABSOLUTELY provable.

Even irrational and imaginary numbers can be proven.

[theicecreamdan]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

And if you would like one found I can FIND and DOCUMENT it. Math is ABSOLUTELY provable.

Even irrational and imaginary numbers can be proven.

"Absolute" is a poor word choice for your argument.
Gödel's incompleteness theorems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

And if you would like one found I can FIND and DOCUMENT it. Math is ABSOLUTELY provable.

Even irrational and imaginary numbers can be proven.

Prove how far 0 is from 1.

[kingkilburn]

Given that 0 and 1 are both known quantities and they are exactly 1 whole apart it doesn't mater how many parts you chop the distance between the two into.

They can be 10/10 1/1 7584632/7584632. It doesn't matter.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Given that 0 and 1 are both known quantities and they are exactly 1 whole apart it doesn't mater how many parts you chop the distance between the two into.

They can be 10/10 1/1 7584632/7584632. It doesn't matter.

What is 1 whole part? and what is the quantity of 1?

But it does absolutely matter

Look, I understand what we accept as 0 and 1. I am just merely pointing out that you can not give an "absolute" definition for it. Just like trying to define the word reasonable. It is just impossible.

[kingkilburn]

The unit of measure is unimportant in the instance you give. You did not give a distance, volume, or anything else to be measured.

0 is EXACTLY 1 whole from 1.

Sorry buddy you are still wrong and by the way you tried to be force being right I would say you need to go take some math classes.

[kingkilburn]

Merriam-Webster

Definition of REASONABLE
1
a : being in accordance with reason <a reasonable theory> b : not extreme or excessive <reasonable requests> c : moderate, fair <a reasonable chance> <a reasonable price> d : inexpensive
2
a : having the faculty of reason b : possessing sound judgment <a reasonable man>



Dictionary.com

rea·son·a·ble
[ree-zuh-nuh-buhl, reez-nuh-]

–adjective
1.
agreeable to reason or sound judgment; logical: a reasonable choice for chairman.
2.
not exceeding the limit prescribed by reason; not excessive: reasonable terms.
3.
moderate, esp. in price; not expensive: The coat was reasonable but not cheap.
4.
endowed with reason.
5.
capable of rational behavior, decision, etc.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Merriam-Webster

Definition of REASONABLE
1
a : being in accordance with reason <a reasonable theory> b : not extreme or excessive <reasonable requests> c : moderate, fair <a reasonable chance> <a reasonable price> d : inexpensive
2
a : having the faculty of reason b : possessing sound judgment <a reasonable man>

So what does any of that mean? Extreme to what? What is extreme? It is just about impossible to define any adjective.

Look man you are missing the point. There is no absolute definition of reasonable, just like there is no absolute definition of an integer. If there existed an absolute definition of anything, there would be no debate about anything. Do you understand that at least? I am not arguing that yes, we all understand that 0 is 1 unit from 1, however, you can never absolutely define what that "1" is. It is just a philosophical debate. Don't let it get you all up in arms.

[kingkilburn]

You are forcing a "philosophical debate" where there is none.

You wanted definitions so I gave them to you. If you don't like the accepted definition that is a personal problem.

Now you want to say you can't define an integer. That's just fucking stupid. An integer by its very nature defined.




You are just blowing hot air. Maybe in your mind you had a legitimate argument going at some point here. Idk or care.


P.S.
A 1 is a 1. There is no dissenting opinion or debate about that.

[kingkilburn]

Originally Posted by ineedone

There is a infinite number of integers between 0 and 1.

I don't know how I missed this before. Even the basis of you argument is flatly wrong. There are NO integers between 0 and 1.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

You are forcing a "philosophical debate" where there is none.

You wanted definitions so I gave them to you. If you don't like the accepted definition that is a personal problem.

Now you want to say you can't define an integer. That's just fucking stupid. An integer by its very nature defined.




You are just blowing hot air. Maybe in your mind you had a legitimate argument going at some point here. Idk or care.


P.S.
A 1 is a 1. There is no dissenting opinion or debate about that.

You gave me an dictionary definition. One in which you could not even begin to tell me what it means. How do you know that a decision is reasonable? By community standards? by your own standards? Is a decision reasonable if it seems so to yourself, but to everyone else it seems not to be. Does God set the reasonable standard, or does Buddha? For example, in law, when you see a "reasonable person standard" that is a very important distinction. You find out what that means when after a jury of ones peers say... hmm yup that seems reasonable. Now, that standard is going to differ just about every single time (which is why people pay attorneys to figure those questions out! why we elect judges/congress to make laws that say this is what we think is reasonable or at least people we believe are least wrong about what reasonable means). You can not point to an absolute definition, yes there are widely accepted definitions and means of reasonable, but how can you being to even believe that it is consistent with no exceptions. And if you know anything about exceptions, they are what disproves "theory" or "truths" correct?

How many times can you divide the number 1 in half? .5, .25, .125, etc. It is never ending correct? So, in theory at least, you can never have a definite knowledge what the distance between 0 and 1 is, because their is a never ending set of number between 0 and 1. .9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999 (this could go on forever) is very close to 1, but will never be 1. So, with that also being true, when does that very large number take you from nothing to 1?

These are certain things we have to accept, and to be honest, quite elementary. Not sure why you keep fighting me on it? And are you sure you have exactly 1, or are you almost at 1 or just a little above 1? Get over the 1st grade math approach and think about it in real terms like science.

[kingkilburn]

I didn't even attempt to engage you on the debate over the definition. It's not that I am unable to but don't wish to.

Yes there are an infinite number of points between 2 points but that does not mean that they are a mystery or undefined. Also the fact that you can infinitely divide that distance does not mean the distance between the original points has changed.


You apparently lack any understanding of how mathematics work. I will not teach you and I will not debate with a brick wall any longer.



Sorry for the ridiculous threadjack. I hope the Muslim community center goes through.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Also, it theoretically impossible to disprove anything other than math.

You said that... not me! All I am trying to say is nothing, at least to my knowledge is "absolute." There always exist exceptions!

Just for some reference for ya!

Why can't we divide by zero?

And ye old wikipedia page, I shudder at the thought of using wikipedia but... eh, easiest way I guess! Philosophy of mathematics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[kingkilburn]

double post

please delete

[kingkilburn]

That wasn't even me.





EDIT

I don't even necessarily agree with the statement.

[Brian]

Thread title change please.

This is now about numbers.

[kingkilburn]

Fuckin' numbers. How do they work?

[Walperstyle]

Back up a second, when did this thread have anything to do with Christians.
...or fucking physics?

Meanwhile the rest of the world is suffering while you losers are arguing over something that wasn't even related to the original topic. Is it any wonder why China owns all the jobs and wealth the USA once had. Holy crap you guys are stupid.