The Future Automotive Thread - Page 277 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Matej · 01-30-2016, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corbic

Do you know how epic fucking awesome the FRS would be if GM, Chryselr or Ford had that car?

As awesome as the Dodge Dart?

SoundEfx · 01-30-2016, 03:36 PM

Ok, now I'm confused as to what you really want and arguing for. Do you want a factory sub $30K RWD car or do you want a foreign RWD car to run with the big dawgs? Because honestly, I don't think you can have both.

If you want the big engine, forget about the sub $30K. Again, I might be wrong, but I don't see it happening.

All I'm saying is that if you want a sub $30K RWD car, expect lack of power and features. If you want to run with the bigs, expect to spend more either through a swap because you like the chassis or another car, it's that simple.

kashira kureijii · 01-30-2016, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corbic

People would drop $35k-$40k all day and the car could actually run with the big dogs.

They already make turbo I4 yota's , I can't understand what would be so hard about tweaking them to be a frs/brz engine .

I would say toyota just wants to make money, but they made like several billion dollars last year, and have a bunch of it banked with no debt. they are also like the largest "brand" automaker in the world they can afford to make fun stuff.

I can't understand what they are so afraid of, they wasted a shit ton of money on those dumb LFA's a while back, why didn't they spend that extra money putting a non shitty engine in the fr's. instead they opted for some boxer bullshit blegh

they should've just paid yamaha to design some badass shit like they used to

vanish1 · 01-30-2016, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoundEfx

Ok, now I'm confused as to what you really want and arguing for. Do you want a factory sub $30K RWD car or do you want a foreign RWD car to run with the big dawgs? Because honestly, I don't think you can have both.

If you want the big engine, forget about the sub $30K. Again, I might be wrong, but I don't see it happening.

All I'm saying is that if you want a sub $30K RWD car, expect lack of power and features. If you want to run with the bigs, expect to spend more either through a swap because you like the chassis or another car, it's that simple.

msrp of the new mustang v6 is 25k what features and powers am I missing?

Corbic · 01-30-2016, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanish1

msrp of the new mustang v6 is 25k what features and powers am I missing?

Same with the 300hp turbo Mustang.

*exitspeed* · 01-31-2016, 07:36 AM

I know everyone likes to ignore the Camaro, despite its superior performance, but it's msrp is $25,700.

And so if you think about what a car slotted UNDER the Camaro it would have to be a more svelte, lighter, lower hp, well handling car i.e. a FRS/BRZ kinda car.

Corbic · 01-31-2016, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exitspeed

I know everyone likes to ignore the Camaro, despite its superior performance, but it's msrp is $25,700.

And so if you think about what a car slotted UNDER the Camaro it would have to be a more svelte, lighter, lower hp, well handling car i.e. a FRS/BRZ kinda car.

And the FRS costs more....

Under 25k barely buys you a Si these days.

At $16,108, a 1990 240sx is $29,210 today.

Hell, when this thread was started in 2006, $25,000 is now $29,391.

Inflation is a bitch.

Yardjass · 01-31-2016, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanish1

msrp of the new mustang v6 is 25k what features and powers am I missing?

This.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corbic

Same with the 300hp turbo Mustang.

And this.

Fact is, the Toyoburu's aren't selling because they've got gutless power/torque and even if you subscribe to the "slow car fast" philosophy, you at least have to dump a couple grand into a proper wheel and tire setup to replace those prius tires and bicycle wheels, before you'll be able to get any results tracking it or autocrossing it. They're also overpriced. If they were somewhere in the 20-22 grand range, they'd be flying off the lots even with their poor power numbers.

Whether they know it or not, what little sales demographic they have is mostly 19 year old girls and hairdressers who think the car is cute. The lightweight, RWD nutswingers who will buy anything that fits that description, bought theirs all up the minute they hit lots at release. Now they're rabidly defending the car as it sits because if a FI model comes out, their car will be old news. Meanwhile, all the potential customers who would buy a faster version are opting for Z's or pony cars because they actually offer some fucking power.

This car won't be around much longer and it isn't because its a failure. Its because Toyota and Subaru never gave it a chance.

*kingkilburn* · 01-31-2016, 09:27 PM

One really has to wonder what stupid contractual obligation is preventing Subaru from putting the turbo on that engine it was clearly designed for.

BOROSUN · 02-01-2016, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

One really has to wonder what stupid contractual obligation is preventing Subaru from putting the turbo on that engine it was clearly designed for.

California

Yardjass · 02-01-2016, 04:14 AM

If that's true, put one in anyway and sell it in the other 49 states. Fuck California.

Corbic · 02-01-2016, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yardjass

If that's true, put one in anyway and sell it in the other 49 states. Fuck California.

It's not even close.

***dorkidori_s13*** · 02-03-2016, 12:12 AM

big ouch...

http://www.motortrend.com/news/break...brand-the-axe/

not a surprise though given Toyota really hit the nail on the head again after the 1st gen TC and 1st gen XB... the XA and XD were duds, the only saving grace theyve had for the past few years has been the FRS (which may become a Toyota model after this downturn)

*exitspeed* · 02-03-2016, 05:11 AM

Wow that is huge news. Brands aren't killed off in the auto industry very often.

The FRS should be a Toyota anyway. Plus having it as a Toyota fits with Akio Toyoda's plan to make the brand have some sportiness again.

EDIT:

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/02/03/t...s-scion-brand/

Yep, the FRS will be a Toyota.

This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. It's a youth oriented brand and these kids don't give a shit about cars. I think this can help the FRS actually. This give them a reason to add more power for the next gen because it doesn't have to be a cheap RWD, it can be a GOOD RWD car now. IMO the next one should have virtually the same curb weight, same MSRP and 50hp more. It'll be in 4 cyl Mustang/Camaro territory then, but with better handling. Keeping the cost down sounds like a long shot, but hey, they won't have to spend millions of dollars on marketing another brand.

Dutchmalmiss · 02-03-2016, 09:28 AM

We all saw it coming. FRS will probably be named GT86 now. iM and iA are probably staying since they're brand new. If the TC stays, I can see it being the revival of the Celica moniker. xB can die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Wow that is huge news. Brands aren't killed off in the auto industry very often.

The FRS should be a Toyota anyway. Plus having it as a Toyota fits with Akio Toyoda's plan to make the brand have some sportiness again.

EDIT:

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/02/03/t...s-scion-brand/

Yep, the FRS will be a Toyota.

This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. It's a youth oriented brand and these kids don't give a shit about cars. I think this can help the FRS actually. This give them a reason to add more power for the next gen because it doesn't have to be a cheap RWD, it can be a GOOD RWD car now. IMO the next one should have virtually the same curb weight, same MSRP and 50hp more. It'll be in 4 cyl Mustang/Camaro territory then, but with better handling. Keeping the cost down sounds like a long shot, but hey, they won't have to spend millions of dollars on marketing another brand.

Yardjass · 02-03-2016, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchmalmiss

FRS will probably be discontinued now.

Fixed. They're not keeping something with those kind of sales numbers unless Subaru decides they want to keep selling them. Highly unlikely since they sell even fewer than Toyota does.

Corbic · 02-03-2016, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yardjass

Fixed. They're not keeping something with those kind of sales numbers unless Subaru decides they want to keep selling them. Highly unlikely since they sell even fewer than Toyota does.

Bingo.

Change of brand may even require recertification. That's millions. Then of course the whole marketing, badges, dealer info...

If a 2nd Gen is in the work, then that would be a Toyota. Maybe they'll be smart and call it a Celica. American buyers don't give two shits about the AE86 nor the MR2.

If Toyota was smart, they'd increase the size to compete with the Mustang, give it a Targa Top like the Vette, and offer a 350hp V6 and 560hp Twin Turbo.

They would then call it a Supra and sell them for $34k and $50k.

Factory V6s should feature forged cranks, rods and Pistons. They would be MAP based with 450cc and 740cc injectors. Engines would NOT be DI and would use the V160 transmission in both versions.

***dorkidori_s13*** · 02-03-2016, 12:22 PM

meh, changing it over to a Toyota may actually broaden the appeal... instead of a 30-40 something saying "i own a Scion FRS" and his peers saying "what are you, 16 again?", the car would probably carry more of an appeal if the same person were able to say "i own a Toyota GT86" or "Toyota FRS".

*exitspeed* · 02-03-2016, 01:02 PM

The FRS/BRZ will see a second gen. Toyoda himself said so. I agree that it being a Toyota will help its sales.

Dutchmalmiss · 02-03-2016, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exitspeed

The FRS/BRZ will see a second gen. Toyoda himself said so. I agree that it being a Toyota will help its sales.

You think now that it's now going to not be sold under Scion's "fully equipped for one price" strategy, they'll offer a cheaper, lesser-optioned entry-level trim? That may spice things up a bit.

*exitspeed* · 02-03-2016, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchmalmiss

You think now that it's now going to not be sold under Scion's "fully equipped for one price" strategy, they'll offer a cheaper, lesser-optioned entry-level trim? That may spice things up a bit.

That and a better, higher priced one. It can't cannibalize anything in Toyotas stable.

feito · 02-03-2016, 03:03 PM

I woulnt mind an frs with manual windows, open diff, and steelies

future · 02-03-2016, 03:07 PM

I think the FRS already comes pretty bare. What else are you going to take from it?

kashira kureijii · 02-03-2016, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corbic

If a 2nd Gen is in the work, then that would be a Toyota. Maybe they'll be smart and call it a Celica. American buyers don't give two shits about the AE86 nor the MR2.

If Toyota was smart, they'd increase the size to compete with the Mustang, give it a Targa Top like the Vette, and offer a 350hp V6 and 560hp Twin Turbo.

They would then call it a Supra and sell them for $34k and $50k.

Factory V6s should feature forged cranks, rods and Pistons. They would be MAP based with 450cc and 740cc injectors. Engines would NOT be DI and would use the V160 transmission in both versions.

isn't the frs already supposed to be the second gen 86?

Seriously though, if they're gonna keep it as an 86, all it really needs is a turbo 4 to be fun, having any jap car that isn't a supra or gtr isn't really about insane power.

It's been a long time since celicas were rwd, calling it a celica might conjure up thought of boring fwd cars with consumers.

Toyota hasn't mentioned anything about mr2's in years, I don't know why mr2's are being mentioned.

What would be cool to see out of toyota would be a gt86 with turbo four, and maybe a Manual IS200 with a turbo I6 or even the turbo 4 redesigned (maybe they could call it a chaser too

)

What enthusiast buys new cars anyway? we are on a forum dedicated to 20 year old nissans, it's obvious where our car allegiances lie.

I might consider a new car if I was convinced it was super special awesome, but I'm sure everyone here has their concerns about the ease of repair/modification on newer cars.

Anyway if they bring in new cool stuff it had better not be front-mid, gawd I hate front mid

Matej · 02-03-2016, 05:54 PM

It would be cool if every automaker just made the Mustang.

kashira kureijii · 02-03-2016, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

It would be cool if every automaker just made the Mustang.

holy fucking shit, I'm crying, good job.

I wish I was this clever

Corbic · 02-03-2016, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feito

I woulnt mind an frs with manual windows, open diff, and steelies

Never going to happen.

Manual Windows cost more than auto Windows because of the finishing volume and dual installations.

Corbic · 02-03-2016, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

It would be cool if every automaker just made the Mustang.

Many have tried...

Chevy Camaro
Pontiac Trans Am
Dodge Challenger
Plymouth Barracuda
Nissan Silvia
Toyota Celica
Hyundai Genesis Coupe
Mazda RX8
Mercury Cougar

*kingkilburn* · 02-03-2016, 07:14 PM

Look at that list half full of cars not even remotely trying to be a mustang, and literally a mustang with a different fascia.

Yardjass · 02-03-2016, 08:22 PM

Yep, nobody wants to spend 25 grand on a new Toyota-Subaru when used, that price gets you:

Cayman
C5 Z06
Base C6 vette
Couple year old V8 pony car
SL500
EVO 10
A very nice 370Z
High mileage 911 if you're lucky
All sorts of lightly used douchebag BMW's

And even less money gets you:
S2000
FD RX-7
Z32 TT
Mid 2000's STI or EVO
NA/NB/NC Miata, including most turbo or v8 swapped
A very well sorted 240
Base C5 vette
Audi TT
More douchebag BMW's

Seriously. Who the hell is thinking about an NA 4 cylinder car with no balls and joke tires at that point?

01-30-2016, 03:36 PM	#8282
SoundEfx Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: WA Posts: 1,250 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Ok, now I'm confused as to what you really want and arguing for. Do you want a factory sub $30K RWD car or do you want a foreign RWD car to run with the big dawgs? Because honestly, I don't think you can have both. If you want the big engine, forget about the sub $30K. Again, I might be wrong, but I don't see it happening. All I'm saying is that if you want a sub $30K RWD car, expect lack of power and features. If you want to run with the bigs, expect to spend more either through a swap because you like the chassis or another car, it's that simple. __________________

01-31-2016, 07:36 AM	#8286
exitspeed aWingThing.com Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 44 Posts: 20,900 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I know everyone likes to ignore the Camaro, despite its superior performance, but it's msrp is $25,700. And so if you think about what a car slotted UNDER the Camaro it would have to be a more svelte, lighter, lower hp, well handling car i.e. a FRS/BRZ kinda car. __________________ What I do for a living...www.mhrussell.com

01-31-2016, 09:27 PM	#8289
kingkilburn Philosopher King Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: FresYes Posts: 3,042 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	One really has to wonder what stupid contractual obligation is preventing Subaru from putting the turbo on that engine it was clearly designed for. __________________ G O L D E N B E A R R E P U B L I C

02-03-2016, 12:12 AM	#8293
*dorkidori_s13* ITS LISA'S FAULT!!! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Las Vegas Age: 42 Posts: 7,487 Trader Rating: (41) Feedback Score: 41 reviews	big ouch... http://www.motortrend.com/news/break...brand-the-axe/ not a surprise though given Toyota really hit the nail on the head again after the 1st gen TC and 1st gen XB... the XA and XD were duds, the only saving grace theyve had for the past few years has been the FRS (which may become a Toyota model after this downturn) __________________ Check out my IG for what I'm up to! DORKIDORI INSTAGRAM!!!

02-03-2016, 05:11 AM	#8294
exitspeed aWingThing.com Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 44 Posts: 20,900 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Wow that is huge news. Brands aren't killed off in the auto industry very often. The FRS should be a Toyota anyway. Plus having it as a Toyota fits with Akio Toyoda's plan to make the brand have some sportiness again. EDIT: http://www.autoblog.com/2016/02/03/t...s-scion-brand/ Yep, the FRS will be a Toyota. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. It's a youth oriented brand and these kids don't give a shit about cars. I think this can help the FRS actually. This give them a reason to add more power for the next gen because it doesn't have to be a cheap RWD, it can be a GOOD RWD car now. IMO the next one should have virtually the same curb weight, same MSRP and 50hp more. It'll be in 4 cyl Mustang/Camaro territory then, but with better handling. Keeping the cost down sounds like a long shot, but hey, they won't have to spend millions of dollars on marketing another brand. __________________ What I do for a living...www.mhrussell.com Last edited by exitspeed; 02-03-2016 at 08:48 AM..

02-01-2016, 04:14 AM	#8291
Yardjass Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Mt. Pleasant, SC Age: 36 Posts: 408 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	If that's true, put one in anyway and sell it in the other 49 states. Fuck California.

02-03-2016, 12:22 PM	#8298
*dorkidori_s13* ITS LISA'S FAULT!!! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Las Vegas Age: 42 Posts: 7,487 Trader Rating: (41) Feedback Score: 41 reviews	meh, changing it over to a Toyota may actually broaden the appeal... instead of a 30-40 something saying "i own a Scion FRS" and his peers saying "what are you, 16 again?", the car would probably carry more of an appeal if the same person were able to say "i own a Toyota GT86" or "Toyota FRS". __________________ Check out my IG for what I'm up to! DORKIDORI INSTAGRAM!!!

02-03-2016, 01:02 PM	#8299
exitspeed aWingThing.com Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 44 Posts: 20,900 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	The FRS/BRZ will see a second gen. Toyoda himself said so. I agree that it being a Toyota will help its sales. __________________ What I do for a living...www.mhrussell.com

02-03-2016, 03:03 PM	#8302
feito Nissanaholic! Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 1,999 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I woulnt mind an frs with manual windows, open diff, and steelies

02-03-2016, 05:54 PM	#8305
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	It would be cool if every automaker just made the Mustang.

02-03-2016, 07:14 PM	#8309
kingkilburn Philosopher King Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: FresYes Posts: 3,042 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Look at that list half full of cars not even remotely trying to be a mustang, and literally a mustang with a different fascia. __________________ G O L D E N B E A R R E P U B L I C

02-03-2016, 08:22 PM	#8310
Yardjass Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Mt. Pleasant, SC Age: 36 Posts: 408 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Yep, nobody wants to spend 25 grand on a new Toyota-Subaru when used, that price gets you: Cayman C5 Z06 Base C6 vette Couple year old V8 pony car SL500 EVO 10 A very nice 370Z High mileage 911 if you're lucky All sorts of lightly used douchebag BMW's And even less money gets you: S2000 FD RX-7 Z32 TT Mid 2000's STI or EVO NA/NB/NC Miata, including most turbo or v8 swapped A very well sorted 240 Base C5 vette Audi TT More douchebag BMW's Seriously. Who the hell is thinking about an NA 4 cylinder car with no balls and joke tires at that point?