This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

[95KA-Turbo]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Why are you guys not using SPL tie rod ends? You making them cheaper or something?

Just thought I'd share this speedhunters article on the Garage Ito R34. Coolest suspension design that I have seen pictures of:

CAR FEATURE>> GARAGE ITO WITH PROSTOCK GT-R - Speedhunters

I don't think SPLs tie rod ends will have enough adjustment for me. I am way lower then any rational grip driver and my LCAs are adjusted down, so I am fairly certain I need a good 3" of adjustment on my tie rod ends.

Which makes it pretty annoying trying to figure out what to do....which will more then likely be me getting new heim joints, misalignment spacers and running the same shank I have in the LCA....as well as drilling the taper out on the spindle. Since I have the drill bit for the taper already it shouldn't be more then....90-100 bucks plus getting the shank that attaches the inner and outer tie rods rethreaded to accept the 5/8th rod end.

[!Zar!]

Originally Posted by az_240

Any opinions on this? I've only seen the washer type spacers like what SPL sells. Apparently you only use 1 of these on the passenger side.

Do you guys that use modded knuckles use steering spacers as well?

Yes, most are running spacers.

Though I wouldn't run those particular ones bolt on spacers. You should go with the Drift Motion ones being as how they correct the tie rod from over extending.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by 95KA-Turbo

I don't think SPLs tie rod ends will have enough adjustment for me. I am way lower then any rational grip driver and my LCAs are adjusted down, so I am fairly certain I need a good 3" of adjustment on my tie rod ends.

Which makes it pretty annoying trying to figure out what to do....which will more then likely be me getting new heim joints, misalignment spacers and running the same shank I have in the LCA....as well as drilling the taper out on the spindle. Since I have the drill bit for the taper already it shouldn't be more then....90-100 bucks plus getting the shank that attaches the inner and outer tie rods rethreaded to accept the 5/8th rod end.

Wow, that's pretty nuts. I was tucking 15" tires and the SPL ends put my tie rods parallel with the ground. Have you spaced your LCA more than it is in the pictures I posted in the OP? Because SPL ends would put the tie rods about parallel with those.

Originally Posted by az_240

Any opinions on this? I've only seen the washer type spacers like what SPL sells. Apparently you only use 1 of these on the passenger side.

Do you guys that use modded knuckles use steering spacers as well?

As far as those spacers go, I don't see why they wouldn't work, although just using one sounds dumb to me, as the steering rack is centered and that would throw it off.

I think what those are for is basically if you need a longer tie rod because of the angle your knuckles can go to. You can only space the tie rods out so far.

Yes, the driftworks ones correct for overcentering, which seems like a better option.

[SoSideways]

Driftworks ones look scary though, because they use a bolt there...

I dunno, didn't someone say those spacers kept failing on the Driftworks cars?

[az_240]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

As far as those spacers go, I don't see why they wouldn't work, although just using one sounds dumb to me, as the steering rack is centered and that would throw it off.

You have to re-center the rack after installing that spacer.

Those driftworks pieces do scare me.... definitely don't want something like that to fail.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by az_240

You have to re-center the rack after installing that spacer.

That's pretty dumb. I'd rather have spacers I install and can at least drive the car to the alignment shop without having to hold the wheel sideways.

Originally Posted by az_240

Those driftworks pieces do scare me.... definitely don't want something like that to fail.

No no no, the URAS ones have broken before.

I'm betting that's an extremely high-grade bolt in there, and it has a ton of support. I can't see it ever breaking. They use them on their S15 drift car, which is a BEAST.

[95KA-Turbo]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Wow, that's pretty nuts. I was tucking 15" tires and the SPL ends put my tie rods parallel with the ground. Have you spaced your LCA more than it is in the pictures I posted in the OP? Because SPL ends would put the tie rods about parallel with those.



As far as those spacers go, I don't see why they wouldn't work, although just using one sounds dumb to me, as the steering rack is centered and that would throw it off.

I think what those are for is basically if you need a longer tie rod because of the angle your knuckles can go to. You can only space the tie rods out so far.

Yes, the driftworks ones correct for overcentering, which seems like a better option.

Would you care to post pictures?

Either way I can build my own for cheaper then paying $250 bucks for SPLs, and it'll be with bigger/crazier/more adjustable tie rod ends.

[SoSideways]

Originally Posted by az_240

You have to re-center the rack after installing that spacer.

I still don't get it...

Why would you install it only on one side?

Wouldn't it make it so like, you can turn like 2.5 turns to one side and maybe like 2 turns only on the other side?

That is just way too weird... It's not working in my head....

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by 95KA-Turbo

Would you care to post pictures?

Either way I can build my own for cheaper then paying $250 bucks for SPLs, and it'll be with bigger/crazier/more adjustable tie rod ends.

Blast, they were on my old car, and my hard drive fried a little while ago. Sorry.

If you can do it, then I guess just go for it.

[Def]

Originally Posted by 95KA-Turbo

Would you care to post pictures?

Either way I can build my own for cheaper then paying $250 bucks for SPLs, and it'll be with bigger/crazier/more adjustable tie rod ends.

Making tie rod ends isn't hard when just drilling the spindle out to 5/8". I had the stuff to make mine, just ended up getting tired of too many projects and got the SPL ones. Not saying they aren't quality pieces, but there is a pretty significant profit margin there... So yes, you can make the stuff yourself with some drill bits, taps and a saw.

[95KA-Turbo]

Yeah I ordered:

2 - Mid West Control 3/4-16 chrome molly teflon race heim joints
2- 3/4-16 jam nuts
2- 3/4 to 5/8 high misalignment spacers
2- 5/8 Speedway Chevy taper long ball joint shanks


So far the total is ~80 bucks, I am waiting on a shipping quote for the ball joint shanks which was like 6 bucks last time when I ordered 4 of them (they're the same ones I am using in my LCAs).

I just need to get my turnbuckle rethreaded to accept a 3/4-16 rod end instead of the 16M one. This should yield nearly indestructible outer tie rods with ~3.5-4" of bumpsteer adjustment.

I am going to order some spacers for the tie rods and LCAs right now from McMaster Carr. That shouldn't cost more then another 15 bucks or so.


I ordered the heim joints, misalignment spacers, and jam nuts from these guys: http://www.barnes4wd.com/index.php

They're only a state away from me and had awesome shipping when I ordered my 4 other misalignment spacers.

I'll post pictures of it when I get it all in.

[PoorMans180SX]

Thanks for continuing to update us on the parts you pick up!

[mikerbike]

I did this a few weeks ago.


It seems to work great. I cooled it in a bucket of sand, but I heard some guys still break them. I made another pair with the spindles I took off the car. I'm definitely installing them on my second car, and making a third pair for when they do break.

I don't use rack spacers with these, but I still have the factory stops on the control arms.

[GripTerror]

^What the hell is happening there

[mmdb]

Looks like the arm was cut and then rewelded to the bottom of the extension to compensate for bump steer as well as give a shorter steering ratio and greater angle.

[!Zar!]

Is that just one huge glob of weld...?

[Csomme]

Sometimes doing that works well. Welds wont always look pretty. Just hope they have enough penetration.

[mikerbike]

Yeah, just cut, shortened and welded. I Heard they break still, even after cooling them slowly and what not. I'm willing to take that chance I guess.
2010 February « C’s Garage (but I actually heard about it from 326 Power)

A few pages back I mentioned that when I lowered my car it ruined the steering. This is a different S13, but it's about the same height and the steering is wonderful.

It's not just one gob of weld, but it is ugly for sure. The other pair I made were more pretty welds.

[timtiminy]

very informative. thanks a bunch for posting this

[az_240]

That spindle does not look like it will last long on a track

[95KA-Turbo]

Got my tie rod parts in!



These things are big as hell!

This is a comparison between my old shit-balls 16MX2.0 china heims and doo-doo bolt I was using to mock crap up. The bolt (which was the strongest one we could find) bent just by pushing the car on and off the trailer.




I am pretty sure the wall thickness of my turnbuckles will be too thin if I bore my current ones out from 16X2.0 to 3/4-16 so I will probably have to fork out another 100 bucks or so to get them done .

My cost on these heims and shanks shipped to me is 93 bucks...so not bad at all!

[!Zar!]

Looks nice, but too much bump-steer adjustment is going to increase the chances of breaking the shank. Even Kuah@spl suggested not using all of the bump-steer adjustment spacers.

No?

[95KA-Turbo]

That shank is designed to be the ball joint/roll center adjuster on stock cars.

There isn't enough room to space it out any more then maybe 1/8th of an inch at most with those misalignment spacers. The ones I got for my LCAs are shorter and will allow me to space the shank up to about 1/2 inch.

[ballinnmiami240sx]

that looks awesome. Bring the knuckles by so i can re-drill them.

[SoSideways]

With that shallow of a taper, I wonder if it wouldn't be beneficial to just use a bolt there instead, that way the diameter will be bigger up there where it goes through the knuckles?

[ballinnmiami240sx]

We tried the bolt method and you can tell that just by rolling off the trailor into the garage it bent. The taper GM stud Im sure can stand the beatings he is going to put on it this year. We are doing alot of R&D on all the suspension mods we did to 95ka-turbo's car. Hopefully in a month or 2 we can report back as to how the car performs.

Danny

[SoSideways]

Yeah but you guys even mentioned that it was a doodoo bolt, and the part that's bent don't even look like it's M16?

I don't know.

I'm doing this also right now, using 5/8" grade 8 bolts, so we'll see how it goes.

[mikerbike]

Originally Posted by az_240

That spindle does not look like it will last long on a track

I don't go out on the track. Just grassroots drift events. I have an event on the 21st. I'll report back if it breaks and I die.

[95KA-Turbo]

Originally Posted by SoSideways

Yeah but you guys even mentioned that it was a doodoo bolt, and the part that's bent don't even look like it's M16?

I don't know.

I'm doing this also right now, using 5/8" grade 8 bolts, so we'll see how it goes.

The shank at the skinniest part on mine is 5/8". I think the other bolt was grade 8, definitely not the right size though.

[zenkifem]

where did you get them 95ka-turbo?

they look legit. If you dont mind me asking how much did they cost?