Test Mule. Solid Sub frame Risers off ebay and they are legit.

[STEEZxIT]

Originally Posted by holemilk00

I agree to a point, no real harm in trying something out, just be aware of what consumer laws protect you. As for accountability between PBM and ebay, PBM has to have a US Tax ID number, alone with a business license because they are a wholesaler, an ebay seller doesn't. That means that if PBM has problems, they have to carry insurance to cover their liability, can you guess what happens if you buy something off eBay and it fails on you and someone gets hurt? Just read the ToS for eBay, we use it in grad school as an example of loop holing and most of my professors are amazed that the government still allows people to do business on eBay because there are no laws for consumers that cover it. You're basically out in the cold. For example, if I build a gokart and sell it at a yard sale, the gokart breaks and kills or severely injures the kids riding it, I have liability because of how the transaction took place. Now if I had sold the same gokart on eBay then I have no legal liability to the buyer for the failure of the gokart, eBay's TOS protects me as a seller, and any buyer agrees to it when you create an account.

Sorry I know that was really off topic, and these are subframe spacers so even if they fail chances of anyone getting hurt are EXTREMELY slim, just thought I would put some information out there.

No you're right, i see what you're saying. And i support on what PBM's are doing. But to me, this whole 240sx is a phase, like i stated above. Im not tryna to make a career out of it. So something i can swing by and use for a few months or so. Ill go for it. When it comes to really important car parts, water pump, brakes and such. i dont go cheap on those.

[PoorMans180SX]

It's not about the name, it's about the company behind the name.

When you spend more on the PSM risers, you're supporting a company that you know is going to go out and invest that money in developing new, innovative, awesome parts for the S-chassis.

The ebay brand just buys a pair of PSM risers, takes them to a CNC operator, makes a bunch of them, and then sells them for cheaper because they have less invested. Then when another new cool part comes out, they do the same thing. It's not just copying a product, it's stealing an idea.

[Alex@GMS]

Originally Posted by fckillerbee

so you cheaped out and bought ebay for a $42 dollar savings that will save you what? a few hours worth of your paycheck.....all to fuck pbm's rnd? Granted I buy cheap shit....but its from the locals....gotta support your community....they actually do give back.

Actually sir it ends up the place I got the bushings from on EBAY is local. So in other words I am. I live in norcal and the zip it came from is a Norcal Zipcode.

[Alex@GMS]

Originally Posted by holemilk00

Keep in mind there is no accountability for the ebay ones to guarantee they are actually 6061. Its ebay, they can say they are made of titanium and you can't do crap about if when you get them and they are made of chalk except give them bad feedback.

So I took the risers to 2 local machine shops and they all said its 6061 aluminum. WTF is gonna break........?? Its a solid piece of CNC aluminum..

[Alex@GMS]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

It's not about the name, it's about the company behind the name.

When you spend more on the PSM risers, you're supporting a company that you know is going to go out and invest that money in developing new, innovative, awesome parts for the S-chassis.

The ebay brand just buys a pair of PSM risers, takes them to a CNC operator, makes a bunch of them, and then sells them for cheaper because they have less invested. Then when another new cool part comes out, they do the same thing. It's not just copying a product, it's stealing an idea.

Sure..... you might say that. So you know how you can usually go to a place and they sell other peoples product.... like a shop or a distributor or a dealer. Well people have asked VEX motorsports for PBM stuff and PBM does not let anyone make account or sell to shops. So who cares if now they have competition with one place. Maybe they will lower there price a bit also.

[JeremyR]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

It's not about the name, it's about the company behind the name.

When you spend more on the PSM risers, you're supporting a company that you know is going to go out and invest that money in developing new, innovative, awesome parts for the S-chassis.

The ebay brand just buys a pair of PSM risers, takes them to a CNC operator, makes a bunch of them, and then sells them for cheaper because they have less invested. Then when another new cool part comes out, they do the same thing. It's not just copying a product, it's stealing an idea.

THIS

PSM has done so much for the s chassis community. And even STILL continue to develop new and innovative products for our 20+ year old shit buckets, full well knowing 90% of the people in this community are cheap ass pieces of shit who would rather buy a fake or a copy than the original.


PSM sells direct to keep costs down. It's not an uncommon thing.

[ayuaddict]

These are just machined pieces of aluminum.

Many companies offer them.

Is one the original and the others knockoffs?

If so, the PBM pieces would be considered a knockoff as well.

When this company starts making suspension links that are the exact same material and design as PBM's then it would be fair to consider this an issue, until then, I think there is no moral problem here, and i think the OP presented valid information.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Way to buy another Ebay knockoff and screw over PSM who did all the research and development.

This is what I call the "Wal-Mart mentality".

This. Fuck Walmart. Fuck 12 year old chinese slave labor.

[nathanong87]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Way to buy another Ebay knockoff and screw over PSM who did all the research and development.

This is what I call the "Wal-Mart mentality".

i think calling it walmart mentality is a bit harsh..... these are just CAD'ed pieces which probably only took some measuring to see what would actually work. then once the CAD was complete, these can be milled or CNC'd or whatever. OR who knows...they could possibly be re-annodized pieces from the same place ebay got them from? (speculation).... i can probably cad up some risers in pro engineer right now honestly :P

i do not think PBM was the first to make subframe risers nor will they be the last. and when it comes to subframe risers or collars, i doubt any will be "better" than others.

i do agree with supporting a local shop if u can though. ebay cut and modded knuckles probably aren't the same as PBM... lol.

[ManoNegra]

lol... these are such ubiquitous parts that the original company
that R&D them is probably forgotten by now.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

lol... these are such ubiquitous parts that the original company
that R&D them is probably forgotten by now.

I was just gonna say the same thing. While I can understand the anti ebay mantra by many, we can almost all agree that these risers were out much before PSM even existed.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by codyace

I was just gonna say the same thing. While I can understand the anti ebay mantra by many, we can almost all agree that these risers were out much before PSM even existed.

Errr wrong. SPL designed the original solid subframe bushing in the US market and PSM designed the slip fit riser before anyone else. Maybe other people were doing custom subframe jobs before them but no one made a subframe-raising bushing before PSM.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by nathanong87

i think calling it walmart mentality is a bit harsh..... these are just CAD'ed pieces which probably only took some measuring to see what would actually work. then once the CAD was complete, these can be milled or CNC'd or whatever. OR who knows...they could possibly be re-annodized pieces from the same place ebay got them from? (speculation).... i can probably cad up some risers in pro engineer right now honestly :P

i do not think PBM was the first to make subframe risers nor will they be the last. and when it comes to subframe risers or collars, i doubt any will be "better" than others.

i do agree with supporting a local shop if u can though. ebay cut and modded knuckles probably aren't the same as PBM... lol.

Well if they are so easy to make, why didn't you think of it/make them? I'm tired of all these excuses for supporting knock-offs.

[nathanong87]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Well if they are so easy to make, why didn't you think of it/make them? I'm tired of all these excuses for supporting knock-offs.

when an ebay company is offering them 50$ cheaper than psm. i doubt www.nathanongsubframeriser.com can undercut the competition....

supply and demand....

food for thought. 326power has nearly the exact same spacer setup 15+3+5+7mm thing as PBM, but it's green. this is again just speculation, but id like to bet that those spacers are coming from the same factory and are just anodized differently.

these riser / collars / spacers ≠ wheels /seats/ body kits.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

lol... these are such ubiquitous parts that the original company
that R&D them is probably forgotten by now.

I'm sure they care a lot about the lost sales.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Errr wrong. SPL designed the original solid subframe bushing in the US market and PSM designed the slip fit riser before anyone else. Maybe other people were doing custom subframe jobs before them but no one made a subframe-raising bushing before PSM.

I don't recall the brand, but we pressed in a set of them from some no name company in a car a long time ago that we found on ebay.

[Jason913]

Wow, some of you guys are ridiculous. Who the fuck cares if he got them on ebay or from psm? The ones he got look quality, and he had them checked by a shop. They're going to work exactly the same. If it was something that effected his safety... that'd be a different story.

People can buy whatever they want. If psm has as large of a following as this thread indicates... one person roaming on ebay to find virtually the same part isn't going to force them to shut down.

[STEEZxIT]

Did you know when it comes to medicine or cereal, the store brand/off brand, are the same shit as the real ones.

[MattRose]

Come on guys, you all need to stop with the who made this who made that crap. I love PSM and have a bunch of their parts and will continue to buy their parts, but for something as simple as that, fuck it. Take this for example:

It looks like a company called driftwarehouse is doing the same thing but with the parts being called D.W.P, I'm assuming standing for drift warehouse products or something along those lines. Anyways heres the two pictures for you to see in comparison. These were found on their cardomain page, but compare the photos in this link to the PBM stuff below:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2947489






Even the coilovers are damn near identical! The only thing different is the rear top plates...Theres a reason PSM changed them though, they improved on the design, which makes them innovators who went through plenty of R&D to bring us the best product possible. I don't want anyone here to think I'm bashing them, you just need to get out of the mentality that "Once upon a time there was this ONE great company the revealed to us the most epic parts of all time that in now way were created by anyone else". Grow up guys..

Again, probably my $0.03 or so haha,

Cheers

[victorw210]

honestly how do you know they didnt design them themselves? like how much work would need to be put into the design like measure o.d. and i.d of original bushing ,measure height on each side subtract 1/2" on top and add 1/2" on bottom. It is a simple design rom the looks of it and its just machined aluminum unless they are using some super low grade aluminum i dont see what could go wrong.

[PoorMans180SX]

Please try to find these:



Or these:



Anywhere else.

Oh wait, you can't, because PSM designed and fabricated those in-house (and they'll be hitting the market soon).

I've made my points. I'm sorry you all think too short-term and are just looking to save a quick buck. Do as you wish.

[Alex@GMS]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Please try to find these:



Or these:



Anywhere else.

Oh wait, you can't, because PSM designed and fabricated those in-house (and they'll be hitting the market soon).

I've made my points. I'm sorry you all think too short-term and are just looking to save a quick buck. Do as you wish.

OK sweet. But lets see what this other company has to offer also. Apparently they are running Gymkhana grid in LA Dec 3rd-4th. So my money did not go over seas.

[ILoveMyRHS13]

Originally Posted by MattRose

Come on guys, you all need to stop with the who made this who made that crap. I love PSM and have a bunch of their parts and will continue to buy their parts, but for something as simple as that, fuck it. Take this for example:

It looks like a company called driftwarehouse is doing the same thing but with the parts being called D.W.P, I'm assuming standing for drift warehouse products or something along those lines. Anyways heres the two pictures for you to see in comparison. These were found on their cardomain page, but compare the photos in this link to the PBM stuff below:

Even the coilovers are damn near identical! The only thing different is the rear top plates...Theres a reason PSM changed them though, they improved on the design, which makes them innovators who went through plenty of R&D to bring us the best product possible. I don't want anyone here to think I'm bashing them, you just need to get out of the mentality that "Once upon a time there was this ONE great company the revealed to us the most epic parts of all time that in now way were created by anyone else". Grow up guys..

Again, probably my $0.03 or so haha,

Cheers

Of course they're going to outsource for mass produced parts. Oh, and those are made by a company called "Windflower."

However, PBM does R&D all of their other products, such as knuckles, LCAs, etc. I know I'll be purchasing PBM subframe risers shortly.

[mrflip69]

Orangetree..

Found here: GB: Orangetree Front Lower Control Arms s13/s14 - $425

That's from 07, so I'm not sure how long PSM's parts have been out. I think Ikea Formula was the first to make the front and rear control arms like that?

SPL used to sell rear control arms, not sure if they ever did fronts. Maybe they still do, but the rears were something like $800 so you know that didn't sell too well LOL..

Though I don't condone the knockoff companies, some competition is good. It forces innovation and lowers prices.

[ILoveMyRHS13]

Originally Posted by mrflip69

Orangetree..

Found here: GB: Orangetree Front Lower Control Arms s13/s14 - $425

That's from 07, so I'm not sure how long PSM's parts have been out. I think Ikea Formula was the first to make the front and rear control arms like that?

SPL used to sell rear control arms, not sure if they ever did fronts. Maybe they still do, but the rears were something like $800 so you know that didn't sell too well LOL..

Though I don't condone the knockoff companies, some competition is good. It forces innovation and lowers prices.

PBM's design is still different. You can follow the thread here:
POWERED BY MAX: Forums

[MattRose]

Oh I don't get me wrong man I wasn't here to bash PBM. I just wanted to point out in some respects that when people say they're exactly the same, in areas where PBM could make improvements, they did, and thats wicked. I'll be buying as much PBM stuff as I can, well, what I can for my R33 that is. As far as I know most of the s14 multi link will work

I've called the shop many times to place my orders and work with them directly. Great lads and I'll keep my business with them for sure. I just wanted some narrow minded people to open their eyes you know? Everyone needs an equal opportunity to purchase what they want, and see what truely is available on the market.

It's upto you to decide who you'd rather support in the end. Every idea originated somewhere, and others have copied it many times over. Personally, I'll be buying the PBM knuckles and RUCA right away, because they're made in house, and I trust their craftsmanship over any other company on zilvia.

[MattRose]

^^^^And those orangetree ones don't look nearly as tough as the PBM stuff. You can see where the PBM ones were boxed in, making them stronger, which in the end is what you want if you're drifting the piss out of your silvia.

[MattRose]

Originally Posted by ILoveMyRHS13

Of course they're going to outsource for mass produced parts. Oh, and those are made by a company called "Windflower."

However, PBM does R&D all of their other products, such as knuckles, LCAs, etc. I know I'll be purchasing PBM subframe risers shortly.

Thanks man! I spent like a week trying to find out who made them haha

[illvialuver]

Yeah I think psm has fair prices, for great products, and yeah they are local so cal guys.

But I also do see the reasoning that its a damn sub frame riser, not some super complex part that has moving parts, its not like he is buy a knock off turbo, or ecu, or something with joints, its a chunck of aluminum. If he wants to save money and buy these parts then let him, he was just trying to share some information with other frugal members.

[godrifttoday]

SO, WHAT! ITS A LOWER COST FOR SOMETHING THAT DOES NOT MOVE! SO HE SAVED CASH FOR THE SAME THING, AND ABOUT SUPPORTING COMPANIES! NO SUCH THING! THEIR IS BRAND LOYALTY, WHICH PEOPLE ONLY BUY THAT CERTAIN COMPAN. Social darwinism is a philosophy used in evolution to explain dynamics of human social and instituitonal “ survivor of the fitest” so if a business is not being inovative all the time then this is what happens, other companies copy the design called reverse engineering. so by business constantly being inovative then the people stealing the design will never be able to gain market share because their is something better... thats my point of view, i dont think i have ever heard anyone say " let me buy something from xxx business because they might go bankrupt" it just does not happen... only when they are bankrupt and are selling things for dirt cheap... by the way i recently purchased spl solid bushings, i did so beacuse of the reputaion of the business, even though i know their is others, similar, for a lower price, to some that matter to others it simply does not...