Ron Paul or Obama?

[kingkilburn]

Social Security is a ponzi scheme.

Medicare/aide are completely miss managed and inefficient.

Military spending is beyond logic. It's like communism. There might be a number on that price tag but it's completely meaningless.

That last 1/4 of the budget can still be cut in half.

[ronmcdon]

Any reasonable speculations are to what will happen with Social Security in the next few decades? The thought of that is just horrifying.
We could, and really should, should cut back on military spending.
That is where I agree with RP & Libertarians the most, is on an isolationist's stance, at least with military interventions.

Obama mentioned in the news the other day, that he intends to have the US gov't help middle eastern countries (egypt, libya, etc) rebuild themselves.
Seems to me this is just Obama appeasing corporate interests again.
That isn't going to go so well with voters.

With the way things are going, the republicans are going to have a chance unless some ultra-right candidate like Palin wins the R-primaries.

[imotion s14]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

Any reasonable speculations are to what will happen with Social Security in the next few decades? The thought of that is just horrifying.

Anyone on this forum who counts on SS being there when we hit retirement age is going to be eating cat food in the future, so I'd suggest they get use to the taste of it.

Yeah it's going to be hard times if entitlements get axed, but the consequences of kicking the can down the road is complete economic ruination for everyone.

The government will fulfill it's promise of cutting your grandpa/grandma a check. They're going to get the money they are promised. They're going to go cash it. They'd going to take cash and then go buy some food or pay bills but then they'll find out that they got their money but it doesn't buy anything. Their purchasing power has been significantly reduced. But it's not just grandma and grandpa, it's going to be the entire country.

We could, and really should, should cut back on military spending.
That is where I agree with RP & Libertarians the most, is on an isolationist's stance, at least with military interventions.

RP is a non-interventionist, not an isolationist, but people use these terms almost interchangeably when they're not even remotely similar.

Also RP is my congressional rep, so of course he has my vote.

[T chop]

I wouldn't vote for a bible thumping,anti abortion,75 year old-ish republican..... so I wouldn't vote for RP

[Csomme]

But you'd vote for a liar and a cheat, someone who supports killing unborn children who already have a heartbeat, someone who has raised the US debt exponentially, who takes vacations every 2 weeks with my hard earned money, who would love to cut ties with Israel, someone who has an addiction for trying to rebuild other countries with the US's money, etc.

[kingkilburn]

You mean you don't want him to vote for any president since Truman. lol

[Mr Miyagi]

Im 16 so my opinion doesnt matter but here it is anyways, id vote 3rd party bro!


But in all seriousness, Obama killed Osama, clearly hes better.

[T chop]

Originally Posted by Csomme

But you'd vote for a liar and a cheat, someone who supports killing unborn children who already have a heartbeat, someone who has raised the US debt exponentially, who takes vacations every 2 weeks with my hard earned money, who would love to cut ties with Israel, someone who has an addiction for trying to rebuild other countries with the US's money, etc.

I'm sure if Bush was able to run again you would probably vote for him.

-Obama is a Muslim
-He was born in Africa
-Osama isn't dead it's a conspiracy
-His birth certificate was forged
-He goes on vacations every week
-He is a puppet controlled by corporations
-The world is flat
-The bible is real

You probably believe all of that.

[Mr Miyagi]

Originally Posted by T chop

I'm sure if Bush was able to run again you would probably vote for him.

-Obama is a Muslim
-He was born in Africa
-Osama isn't dead it's a conspiracy
-His birth certificate was forged
-He goes on vacations every week
-He is a puppet controlled by corporations
-The world is flat
-The bible is real

You probably believe all of that.

[Csomme]

Originally Posted by T chop

I'm sure if Bush was able to run again you would probably vote for him.

-Obama is a Muslim
-He was born in Africa
-Osama isn't dead it's a conspiracy
-His birth certificate was forged
-He goes on vacations every week
-He is a puppet controlled by corporations
-The world is flat
-The bible is real

You probably believe all of that.

No, I wouldn't vote for bush, but I just don't understand why the fuck you want more government. That's just plain stupid.

And no, but I do believe in the Bible, which teaches responsibility, punishment for wrongdoing, etc.

[Csomme]

Originally Posted by Mr Miyagi

But in all seriousness, Obama killed Osama, clearly hes better.

So how did Obama kill Osama? He shot that guy? I could have sworn Seal Squad 6 killed Obama. Shit, thanks for letting me know that he trained for months to complete a mission like that. I could've sworn he just sat on his ass and took credit for it. My B.

[kingkilburn]

Get trolled why don't you.


I think it's high time America wises up to the super duo that is Mike Huckabee and Ross Perot.

[Csomme]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Get trolled why don't you.

Happens every fucking time, I feel like I'm 16 again, I have to comment on everything.

Huckabee is the man.

[Mr Miyagi]

Originally Posted by Csomme

Happens every fucking time, I feel like I'm 16 again, I have to comment on everything.

Huckabee is the man.

Dont take ANYTHING I say seriously


Lets all vote for Jackson!

[Bobafreak]

Donald trump!

[thrax]

Not American but if i were RP. Just purely on wanting to reform the fed and banking system in general. Hopefully he would put in prison all the schemers from Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan etc. and sieze their assets (which would be hundreds of billions at least). Credit default swaps and the way they insure themselves is pure fraud. New laws can be passed to prevent the problems the fractional banking system has as well.
On top of that RP would probably crack down on lobbyists. Both foreign and corporate. It doesn't hurt that he is a long time medical doctor too.

[axiomatik]

As a liberal, I disagree with many of Ron Paul's views. However, I do respect his honesty. He seems to be one of the last true conservatives in modern America (the Republican party having been taken over by big-government neocons).

Anyway, today I read this article that I thought was pretty good. And the comments section seemed to be filled with intelligent comments instead of the partisan demagoguery that you usually see on political sites.

Reaction to Ron Paul shows some Americans are exceptionally stupid | NJ.com

[Corbic]

I'll vote for anyone but Obama, hell maybe Hillary will challenge is lame ass.

Obama, worst president since Linden Johnson. (yes, he's worse then Carter, Carter actually believed his own BS).

[fliprayzin240sx]

Honestly, you can't really blame Obama for everything. The last 4 yrs has been shit due to the bi-partisan bullshit/circus between the White House and Congress. Instead of working together, they fucking wanted to rip into each other to one up each other.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by thrax

Not American but if i were RP. Just purely on wanting to reform the fed and banking system in general. Hopefully he would put in prison all the schemers from Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan etc. and sieze their assets (which would be hundreds of billions at least). Credit default swaps and the way they insure themselves is pure fraud. New laws can be passed to prevent the problems the fractional banking system has as well.
On top of that RP would probably crack down on lobbyists. Both foreign and corporate. It doesn't hurt that he is a long time medical doctor too.

If you are not American should you even be discussing this? I mean seriously you speak from pretty simplistic views above. All of the banks that were bailed out not only paid back their bailout money but also paid interest on it as well. In fact the America did well on the bailout.
Its not so simple to just say lets put in prison all the executives from these banks.
Not all are guilty of wrongdoing and until you have facts which you do not, you know not of what speak of.

New laws have been enacted and its not as easy as it was. Trying to blame people at this stage of the situation does not help the economy. In fact the administration just did that and it put fear in the American consumer thereby stalling the growth we were starting to have.
Its funny that the FHA decided to sue the banks at this stage of the situation as well because they run Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae two of the biggest contributors to the whole mortgage mess. Two contributors that have not paid the U.S. back for their own financial mess up.

There is no one entity that was responsible for this in the end either. Everyone participated. Did you take advantage of easy credit? If so you participated. Did you take advantage of getting a home loan with no down payment or stated income? If so you participated.
Fact is everyone got drunk on cheap and easy credit and in turn got greedy. Did you take a 2nd or 3rd mortgage for a new car or a vacation? If so that was greddy. Did you sign a the dotted line on a loan knowing you would not be able to afford it over time but counting on the value of the house going up to make you money and then refinance or flip it? If so that was greedy.

The list goes on and on and no one I repeat no one is immune.
We all participated and its time we all accept responsibility and stop pointing fingers and get on with correcting things.

Oh and Ron Paul quite possibly would do a better job at that. Oh and cracking down on lobbyists would be good, except its and entrenched system that neither party wants to get rid of.

P.S. I was a registered Democrat, I no longer agree with any of the current parties. The Democrats are to far to the left and the current Republican party is to far to the right. Neither side is willing to cooperate they just want to lay blame like you do and you are not even a citizen.

harsh realities but truth.

[T chop]

Ron Paul will never even get the republican vote, he has zero chance of getting elected. Not saying I would vote for him but a lot of what he says makes sense and then there's the ideas that are "out there" and turn off too many voters.

I can't realistically see anybody but Romney or Perry going up against Obama. Those two kind of remind of Coke and Pepsi keeping everyone else down. I think it's going to end up Obama and Romney.

The thing that bothers me about American politics is that there is too much campaigning blah blah blah, when they could be using that time to work on issues. It seems like the day a person gets elected their next campaign starts. The election is next November? And they have already had a few solid months of campaigning that is wasted. The campaigning and advertising etc should start maybe a few months before an election not years.

[Wake]

Im voting "socialist".

[rc1honda]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

If you are not American should you even be discussing this? I mean seriously you speak from pretty simplistic views above. All of the banks that were bailed out not only paid back their bailout money but also paid interest on it as well. In fact the America did well on the bailout.
Its not so simple to just say lets put in prison all the executives from these banks.
Not all are guilty of wrongdoing and until you have facts which you do not, you know not of what speak of.

New laws have been enacted and its not as easy as it was. Trying to blame people at this stage of the situation does not help the economy. In fact the administration just did that and it put fear in the American consumer thereby stalling the growth we were starting to have.
Its funny that the FHA decided to sue the banks at this stage of the situation as well because they run Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae two of the biggest contributors to the whole mortgage mess. Two contributors that have not paid the U.S. back for their own financial mess up.

There is no one entity that was responsible for this in the end either. Everyone participated. Did you take advantage of easy credit? If so you participated. Did you take advantage of getting a home loan with no down payment or stated income? If so you participated.
Fact is everyone got drunk on cheap and easy credit and in turn got greedy. Did you take a 2nd or 3rd mortgage for a new car or a vacation? If so that was greddy. Did you sign a the dotted line on a loan knowing you would not be able to afford it over time but counting on the value of the house going up to make you money and then refinance or flip it? If so that was greedy.

The list goes on and on and no one I repeat no one is immune.
We all participated and its time we all accept responsibility and stop pointing fingers and get on with correcting things.

Oh and Ron Paul quite possibly would do a better job at that. Oh and cracking down on lobbyists would be good, except its and entrenched system that neither party wants to get rid of.

P.S. I was a registered Democrat, I no longer agree with any of the current parties. The Democrats are to far to the left and the current Republican party is to far to the right. Neither side is willing to cooperate they just want to lay blame like you do and you are not even a citizen.

harsh realities but truth.

I think we are missing the bigger picture of what RP was really saying when he talks about bank reform. I am American and have done a fair amount of research on this.

I have strong feelings about the banking systems in our country. You go so far as to blame the American people for the insolvency of our major banks in 08. This was allowed to happen through the greed of these large banks and their predatory lending tactics enacted on the American people. Naive people, but normal Americans just the same. American's were very enthusiastically sold a dream. The banks would of made billions in interest and still own the collateral through the debtors default. These are powerful and dangerous financial tactics used to make untold wealth. The only reason it didn't work it because everyone seemed to go broke and default at the same time. Then when the markets got wind of the tactics used against the general public everyone saw it for what it was. A elaborate scheme. The banks actually wanted the debtors to default, this way the get the interest and the collateral. It's was a absolutely brilliant, and nefarious scam. And it almost worked.

The people who applied for the loans should not have received them period bottom line. The banks saw a opportunity to make billions on interest alone on the back of underemployed and under-saved Americans and gave them loans they shouldn't have. The ultimate responsibility of the insolvency lies with the banks alone. They should have failed, and the bailout was a huge mistake. If only for the reason the it left the very people the brought the global economic platform crumbling down in less then a decade, still in charge. And let me remind this was just one of the incompetent and predatory tactics used by these banks to generate extreme wealth on the backs of other companies and Americans.

Now RP has some ideas that were not so foreign to Americans 200 years ago when we signed the Declaration of Independence, and ratified our Constitution. That's the free market and trade will rule the financial markets and set interest, and that the government will regulate and distribute currency, not some Ultimate bank.

RP wants to go so far as to abolish the FED completely. And for this reason alone he should have every Americans vote who don't have ties with a large financial institution. Fact is, fiat currency is the way of world as i believe it should be. But, we do not have to borrow it a base interest. The government can mint and distribute currency independently. This alone would save John Q tax payer thousands of dollars in useless income tax that goes to pay down the debt.

The second reason why anyone with any worry of Americas future should vote for RP is that he wants to overturn the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act that was heralded as the greatest way to protect us from scary terrorists, is actually the greatest act of terrorism ever enacted on the American people in and of itself. It completely and utterly undermines every single one of yours and mine personal liberties and rights that our forefathers deemed unalienable.

These 2 reasons alone are enough for me to put up with any of his pro-life bullshit, or any other thing that he may be to conservative on. These 2 things are of the most dire importance to the American people right now at this present day in history.

Vote RP and let him get the these 2 things accomplished. After that go ahead and vote for any big business, green treehugger, war monger moron, tax loving hippy you want. Everything else is arbitrary until these 2 things get accomplished.

[MasonBarnard]

i have to say i prob wont vote, And its more based on the conspiracys and shit honestly. Regardless of who we pick for president, the president doesnt do to much, more like a puppet. But thats why id have to say ron paul, cause if that was the case, then Ron seems like he might be able to change that. Im very very paranoid about our government, and find myself researching to much...and getting scared hahaha

[Wake]

Its not paranoia.

Our government is shady as fuck. Americans know this and care to do absolutely squat about it.
We are dumb and fat and want the most opulent luxury we can have for the least amount of work, as long as it doesnt require thinking for ourselves.
Its more and more obvious everyday right here on zilvia

We are the Rome of the new world.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by rc1honda

The people who applied for the loans should not have received them period bottom line. The banks saw a opportunity to make billions on interest alone on the back of underemployed and under-saved Americans and gave them loans they shouldn't have. The ultimate responsibility of the insolvency lies with the banks alone.

Yes, but AIG does not make loans out to individuals.

They loan money to your local bank who then loans it to you... and they do this because the loan officer gets a bonus for every $1,000 they loan out.

Why are we not raising torches to throw all of the loan offers in jail? They are the foot soliders and are in the best position to see if you can afford the loan, or if the house you are buying is worth it.

The other scumbags out there are realtors. They get 6% of the selling price, its in there best intrest to make the house sell for as much as possible. They are constantly talking people into spending more money. I went through two Realtors before finally being fucked over. All of them wanted to show me houses that where clearly more then I was looking to spend and told them I was going to spend.

Just watch HGTV any of the house buying shows. Couple has $50,000 saved up, they get approved for $250,000.... so? To me this means you look at 200-250,000, you put 50g down and now you have a mortgage of 150-200k.

But, the Realtor always goes "Great! Lets start looking at 300-350k!!" with 50k down that brings you close to your 250k cap and a bank will work with you if your at 270k or so!!"

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by WakeBHR

Its not paranoia.

Our government is shady as fuck. Americans know this and care to do absolutely squat about it.
We are dumb and fat and want the most opulent luxury we can have for the least amount of work, as long as it doesnt require thinking for ourselves.
Its more and more obvious everyday right here on zilvia

We are the Rome of the new world.

Europe is further along.

The problem is that its overwhelming. What can you, WakeBHR personally do that will cause any change or improvement?

The answer? Nothing.

To actually see a drastic shift in politics you need party reform or some form of term limits.

Party reform is not going to happen. The Tea Party tried to do this. Whether your agree with their views or not is irrelevant. They did not see either party offering the solutions they wanted and tried to unit to get their idea of "change" into effect. Both partys and the media shit all over them to ensure the status quo remained the same.

With no viable third party, its a "yes/no" vote every time. Do you want Obamacare - yes or no? Do you want to go to war in Libia, yes or no? Do you want Gay Marriage, yes or no?

The parties even try and boil down complex issues int simple gut reaction yes and noes, just like gay marriage, abortion, gun rights, immigration... this way a heavy pro-gay district will always vote the democrate in no matter how incompetent or corrupt they are. This is how we get Ted Kennedys and Nancy Pelosies for 30 years straight despite their stupidity and corruption.


Term limits sound great - except the very people it will put in the street are the ones you have to persuade to vote for it... good luck.

[thrax]

Originally Posted by rc1honda

I think we are missing the bigger picture of what RP was really saying when he talks about bank reform. I am American and have done a fair amount of research on this.

I have strong feelings about the banking systems in our country. You go so far as to blame the American people for the insolvency of our major banks in 08. This was allowed to happen through the greed of these large banks and their predatory lending tactics enacted on the American people. Naive people, but normal Americans just the same. American's were very enthusiastically sold a dream. The banks would of made billions in interest and still own the collateral through the debtors default. These are powerful and dangerous financial tactics used to make untold wealth. The only reason it didn't work it because everyone seemed to go broke and default at the same time. Then when the markets got wind of the tactics used against the general public everyone saw it for what it was. A elaborate scheme. The banks actually wanted the debtors to default, this way the get the interest and the collateral. It's was a absolutely brilliant, and nefarious scam. And it almost worked.

The people who applied for the loans should not have received them period bottom line. The banks saw a opportunity to make billions on interest alone on the back of underemployed and under-saved Americans and gave them loans they shouldn't have. The ultimate responsibility of the insolvency lies with the banks alone. They should have failed, and the bailout was a huge mistake. If only for the reason the it left the very people the brought the global economic platform crumbling down in less then a decade, still in charge. And let me remind this was just one of the incompetent and predatory tactics used by these banks to generate extreme wealth on the backs of other companies and Americans.

Now RP has some ideas that were not so foreign to Americans 200 years ago when we signed the Declaration of Independence, and ratified our Constitution. That's the free market and trade will rule the financial markets and set interest, and that the government will regulate and distribute currency, not some Ultimate bank.

RP wants to go so far as to abolish the FED completely. And for this reason alone he should have every Americans vote who don't have ties with a large financial institution. Fact is, fiat currency is the way of world as i believe it should be. But, we do not have to borrow it a base interest. The government can mint and distribute currency independently. This alone would save John Q tax payer thousands of dollars in useless income tax that goes to pay down the debt.

The second reason why anyone with any worry of Americas future should vote for RP is that he wants to overturn the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act that was heralded as the greatest way to protect us from scary terrorists, is actually the greatest act of terrorism ever enacted on the American people in and of itself. It completely and utterly undermines every single one of yours and mine personal liberties and rights that our forefathers deemed unalienable.

These 2 reasons alone are enough for me to put up with any of his pro-life bullshit, or any other thing that he may be to conservative on. These 2 things are of the most dire importance to the American people right now at this present day in history.

Vote RP and let him get the these 2 things accomplished. After that go ahead and vote for any big business, green treehugger, war monger moron, tax loving hippy you want. Everything else is arbitrary until these 2 things get accomplished.

well said.

[duffman1278]

My vote is for Ron Paul, no doubt about it. The man is the only candidate that isn't full of BS and says things for how they are. He has a plan, he knows what he needs to do and where to get the resources and he doesn't let anyone get in his way and is sick and tired of the big corporation and government working together.

I agree with rc1honda, these banks have completely abused their powers and are getting worst. Sad part is they arn't even done yet. And as of now they write our laws and control our politicians. They've hurt millions of people and nothings happened to them.

I'm pissed that FOX actually took down their poll on "who do you think won the republican debate" when Ron Paul won by a landslide.

[thrax]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

If you are not American should you even be discussing this? I mean seriously you speak from pretty simplistic views above. All of the banks that were bailed out not only paid back their bailout money but also paid interest on it as well. In fact the America did well on the bailout.
Its not so simple to just say lets put in prison all the executives from these banks.
Not all are guilty of wrongdoing and until you have facts which you do not, you know not of what speak of.

New laws have been enacted and its not as easy as it was. Trying to blame people at this stage of the situation does not help the economy. In fact the administration just did that and it put fear in the American consumer thereby stalling the growth we were starting to have.
Its funny that the FHA decided to sue the banks at this stage of the situation as well because they run Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae two of the biggest contributors to the whole mortgage mess. Two contributors that have not paid the U.S. back for their own financial mess up.

There is no one entity that was responsible for this in the end either. Everyone participated. Did you take advantage of easy credit? If so you participated. Did you take advantage of getting a home loan with no down payment or stated income? If so you participated.
Fact is everyone got drunk on cheap and easy credit and in turn got greedy. Did you take a 2nd or 3rd mortgage for a new car or a vacation? If so that was greddy. Did you sign a the dotted line on a loan knowing you would not be able to afford it over time but counting on the value of the house going up to make you money and then refinance or flip it? If so that was greedy.

The list goes on and on and no one I repeat no one is immune.
We all participated and its time we all accept responsibility and stop pointing fingers and get on with correcting things.

Oh and Ron Paul quite possibly would do a better job at that. Oh and cracking down on lobbyists would be good, except its and entrenched system that neither party wants to get rid of.

P.S. I was a registered Democrat, I no longer agree with any of the current parties. The Democrats are to far to the left and the current Republican party is to far to the right. Neither side is willing to cooperate they just want to lay blame like you do and you are not even a citizen.

harsh realities but truth.

What you do in America affects other parts of the world, especially when they are all linked. That's why non-Americans are interested. Most of what Goldman Sachs did is a form of fraud and they new it was. Blaming the victims is something American media is doing, now that is simplistic in the cases of fraud. The mortgages fraud is just one of many things these guys were up to. They also do the accounting for foreign governments. Of course they won't get prosecuted. Many of the people in Obama's and Bush's admin were Goldman Sach Alumni.
Between RP and Obama, RP will do something about the FED he's been talking about it for years.