College education is the largest scam in U.S. history

[GabeS14]

Originally Posted by theicecreamdan

If you only want to do one specific career for the rest of your life.

Not really courses range From 6months To 2 or 3 years. If for some reason you decided you wanted to change directions you could just take another course.
My buddy reently graduated as a respiratory technician who makes $30 + p/h starting pay. After one year he decided he wanted to switch directions he is now doing a different. 1 year Course now when he graduates he will get paid even more since he is qualified for more than one job. In the med field

[ronmcdon]

Originally Posted by GabeS14

I would place college degrees in the same category of scams as I would place cable tv packages. You get you you need out of it but 85% of what your paying for goes to the garbage and you don't ever use so it's a big waist of money. Nothing better then specialized courses or 2 year programs that teach you only what you need to know for that specific career

While I would disagree with 85% mark, I do think a lot of the general ed courses & absurd cost of textbooks are def a 'rip-off'. In the end, maybe 2 and half years of the four years you spend are really dedicated towards something relevant to your bachelors. The same could probably be said for much of the time we spend in high school, esp the senior year.

Getting a master's degree is generally a whole lot more focused however. Working on my master's right now, there is hardly enough bullshit courses, other than a 'cultural diversity' class (lost count on how many times Ive had to take that.) I feel like my time and money is getting what seems to be a more worthwhile ed. Still, I probably couldn't get there without my bachelors.

The ed system isn't a scam, but it there is a lot of inefficiency and profiteering. There's a lot of room for improvement.

[theicecreamdan]

textbooks are a rip off, stay away from campus bookstores. I've actually made money one quarter selling books I got from amazon to the school bookstore.

[ronmcdon]

Yeah def check Amazon. Helps too that they have an app for most smartphones.
Be sure to plan ahead though, as a lot of the independent vendors Amazon works with may be inconsistent with shipping.

What I used to do back in the day was to take advantage of the bookstore's 2 day return policy, and just photocopy the pages required for the more expensive textbooks. It was tedious but I saved at least a few hundred if not more over the years

[duffman1278]

Screw amazon, I just PDF as many books as I can. I didn't even buy a single book for an entire year of college once.

[ZenkiKid]

half.com and look for sellers who are in the same state as you. Thats what i did. Killed two birds with one stone on all of my deals there, found one that was cheap and had super fast shipping.

[Silverbullet]

Originally Posted by theicecreamdan

If you only want to do one specific career for the rest of your life.

Thats a load of crap. People get stuck in one specific field because they dont take the initiative to make changes. Its best to change positions every so often.

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

Getting a master's degree is generally a whole lot more focused however. Working on my master's right now, there is hardly enough bullshit courses, .

I find grad classes more of a joke than undergrad classes. The majority of my class mates are working professionals who have kids and families and such. Typically my professors are in the same boat, therefore not a whole lot of effort is put out on either end IMO.

[bb4_96]

^ speaks the truth. In engineering I have already been in 3 different fields. If you're unmotivated enough to be stuck in a specific career your whole life you should at least join the military, at least you're well compensated while you sit on your ass and wait to be told what to do with your life.

Doesn't matter whether you get a degree or not if you're a turd you're a turd. Always waiting to be told what to do, never striving to beat the curve. And feeling entitled to all the benefits all the while. That is the real problem with this country.

[bb4_96]

Originally Posted by GabeS14

I would place college degrees in the same category of scams as I would place cable tv packages. You get you you need out of it but 85% of what your paying for goes to the garbage and you don't ever use so it's a big waist of money. Nothing better then specialized courses or 2 year programs that teach you only what you need to know for that specific career

I see what you did there

[ronmcdon]

Originally Posted by Silverbullet

Thats a load of crap. People get stuck in one specific field because they dont take the initiative to make changes. Its best to change positions every so often.



I find grad classes more of a joke than undergrad classes. The majority of my class mates are working professionals who have kids and families and such. Typically my professors are in the same boat, therefore not a whole lot of effort is put out on either end IMO.

I can't say the same in my case. The amount of work I put in is about the same, if not more. same amount of reading. I have no tests, but have to write more papers.

I felt the teachers in my undergrad 4-year college really didn't have to do much. a lot of the class sizes were always in lecture halls with a few hundred students, with very little if any chance of interaction. in graduate school, it's all smaller class sizes with 20 or less.

quality of teachers (or even students) is a mixed bag, no different than from undergrad level. As for the students, a lot of the working professionals just go part time, usually night classes. I find that they're usually more serious about school than the kids who go to school full time. This is why I usually opted for night classes. It's no different than the undergrad level.

Of course, I can't speak for your experience. maybe you had a better undergrad experience than I.

[Mr. Camshaft]

I'll be finishing up a masters in materials science this winter. I can't speak for mechanical, but my courses weren't any harder than what I found in my undergrad. In fact I think it was easier. The professors don't put any effort into teaching well with the exception of Lubarda.

College, both undergrad and grad, are only as good as you make it. Success hinges entirely upon YOU. I didn't do as well in my undergrad years and had difficulty landing interviews. I made the effort to.go through grad school and be a part of Formula SAE which has helped tremendously with my job prospects.

[airhead]

Originally Posted by Walperstyle

Watch this:

Ken Robinson says schools kill creativity | Video on TED.com

I know so many post secondary students that spent years in University that come out un-able to apply the knowledge they have. NEVER go into school expecting a job to be waiting for you. Take classes that get you places, or give you the ability to corner a market somewhere. And always expect to move. Never stay planted too long.

This is very true. A lot of students expect a job right after graduating.
It takes hard work and lots of dedication to find a good job.
Never expect anything to be easy or to be handed to you.
Work hard and move foward thats how I look at it.
Stay in school no matter how busy or finnacial problems you may have.
Dont use excuses! Theres always more than one way. hah

[WISH ONE]

My experience with college so far is this:
College is for people who need to be told, who aren’t self starters, and in most cases college is a day care.
Almost everything you need to know can be self taught if you have enough drive and motivation..
College is not for everyone, and like many have said, it’s really up to you what you make of it.

To me the huge question is; Is it worth the investment?
I took classes last semester, finished with a good mark and was extremely disappointed when it was all over.
Having left the class with no new information or knowledge to take with me made me feel like I had wasted lots of TIME and definitely MONEY.
By money I don’t just mean the class and books but also time spent, fuel, commuting, missing out on extra time at work, etc.
Most of the information I could have found with a little research online or even in a book.
Sure, not all courses are like this, but a majority are.

[ronmcdon]

There are professions out there that require formal training.
I wouldn't want to go to a doctor who was 'self-taught', but to each and their own.

[ZenkiKid]

Update:

So I have posted a couple times in this thread and a little over a month after graduating here has what happened to me:

-On the verge of possibly being laid off from my current job. San Diego County thinks that it would be a bright idea if they cut even more money on top of what they already cut, yet they still expect us to churn out the same amount of revenue. I may be out of a job by the end of next month if things indeed do turn out for the worst.

-Applied to 10+ entry level positions. 2 out of those 10 positions I should have in the bag at the very least because of connections I have. The other 8 I am still very confident in because of the amount of field experience I already have on top of my degree.

So all thats left for me is to play the waiting game.

[WISH ONE]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

There are professions out there that require formal training.
I wouldn't want to go to a doctor who was 'self-taught', but to each and their own.

I completely understand this, but not everyone is going to school to be doctors.
Same idea goes for many other professions, the more technical types.
I'm in that boat right now, If I had degree in ME I could be an engineer at my company. This is the exact reason I am contemplating going back to school, but then again is it worth the time invested, and chances are ill probably land the engineering job in a few years if work for it.
Bottom line is I don't want to work for someone forever, the degree or the current career I chose is just a vessel to realize my future plans.

[bb4_96]

^It depends on what type of engineering you are doing. I work at a company where we are all designated design engineers. Most people I work with don't even have 4 year degrees. But it was also a long road to get here for them. Most of them spent 10+ years in the shop sweating over an NC machine and on top of that had to make time for overtime and night school for a two year degree. I'd say they earned this position. I on the otherhand went to school, graduated, and walked right in the door. The thing is this, if the doors closed tomorrow I would have another job of equal pay in a week, my coworkers...

Thats all well and good but it depends on the level of engineering involved as to whether or not a hard working self taught person could pull it off. There are many calculations that I honestly wouldn't expect hard working anyone to know or be able to learn without a formal education. Or if you were going to go through all the trouble to learn it why the fuck not shell out a couple dollars to invest in your intellect. If you can do a mechanical engineers job without formal training it probably isn't mechanical engineering. I wonder what it is people think that engineering students do all day.

I know alot of people who worked really hard and went a long way in life. I admire it. But it wasn't for me. I don't like to travel for work, Don't want to be reliant on my body, don't want to be reliant on tenure, don't want to be reliant on networking. My uncle was ranting and raving about how he made so much of himself the other day without college. The fact of the matter is if his dad's firm went tits up he'd be out on the street.

College isn't required but if your going to get a degree that makes sense it's good insurance.

[duffman1278]

Originally Posted by bb4_96

^It depends on what type of engineering you are doing. I work at a company where we are all designated design engineers. Most people I work with don't even have 4 year degrees. But it was also a long road to get here for them. Most of them spent 10+ years in the shop sweating over an NC machine and on top of that had to make time for overtime and night school for a two year degree. I'd say they earned this position. I on the otherhand went to school, graduated, and walked right in the door. The thing is this, if the doors closed tomorrow I would have another job of equal pay in a week, my coworkers...

Thats all well and good but it depends on the level of engineering involved as to whether or not a hard working self taught person could pull it off. There are many calculations that I honestly wouldn't expect hard working anyone to know or be able to learn without a formal education. Or if you were going to go through all the trouble to learn it why the fuck not shell out a couple dollars to invest in your intellect. If you can do a mechanical engineers job without formal training it probably isn't mechanical engineering. I wonder what it is people think that engineering students do all day.

I know alot of people who worked really hard and went a long way in life. I admire it. But it wasn't for me. I don't like to travel for work, Don't want to be reliant on my body, don't want to be reliant on tenure, don't want to be reliant on networking. My uncle was ranting and raving about how he made so much of himself the other day without college. The fact of the matter is if his dad's firm went tits up he'd be out on the street.

College isn't required but if your going to get a degree that makes sense it's good insurance.

Couldn't have said it better myself. There's a vast amount of information that engineering students learn and which is usually just the fundamentals yet there are things most shop workers wouldn't be able to learn on their own from working extra hard at the shop.

The degree is what you need to do the REAL engineering work. Time studies and management isn't really technical engineering, plenty of people can do that. Hell, from what I've seen and done stuff dealing with overall production and plant production line studies can be done by interns with a little bit of training. But real calculations, studies, analysis, reports, etc can't just be taught to anyone.