Do Japanese Cars Suck?

[FormulaDz92]

Originally Posted by lunchmeat

What's with the mustang and camaro interiors? Haven't put my ass in a new stang yet, but sitting in a camaro feels like I'm stuck in a WWII era pillbox.

S550 Mustang is not like that at all, the visibility is pretty good in it. It is about the same as a 2G Eclipse. Also the interior quality is pretty good and the seats are fantastic for spirited driving. (and this is the base model EB we're talking about)

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by dizzariot

I really love it when dudes say the ZN6 has no power. My 1988 Silvia Q's has no power. The AE86 has no power. The ZN6 is fine the way it is. In the grand scheme of things, a manual, KA24DE 240SX has enough power. Everyone acts like they can drive a 300HP car with such adept skill. Slow your roll, Ryan Gosling from Drive.

When my mom's astro van pulled on my stock s14 I knew something needed to change. Life's too short to drive slow cars.

[[240sx]]

Originally Posted by spooled240

When my mom's astro van pulled on my stock s14 I knew something needed to change.

😂 Holy hell, this x10000000!!

Sent from my SM-G930P

[LockOn!]

80's and 90's Japanese cars were great because we were at the perfect crossroads of power production, and weight. Safety has regulated weight into oblivion, and emissions standards have steered engine tech in a different direction.


Also, you guys are forgetting the economy in Japan was going nuts in the 80s and has been in decline since the 90s. People just aren't buying the sporty shit anymore.


Cars will never be the same. If we are lucky, we will see a blip of sporty electrics like an all electric BMW M3 or things of the sort. Eventually, all these things will be self driving and probably not owned, but rather leased from a provider. We won't be able to modify our cars, work on our cars, or make changes. You just have "your" car, that the company really owns.

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by dizzariot

I really love it when dudes say the ZN6 has no power. My 1988 Silvia Q's has no power. The AE86 has no power. The ZN6 is fine the way it is. In the grand scheme of things, a manual, KA24DE 240SX has enough power. Everyone acts like they can drive a 300HP car with such adept skill. Slow your roll, Ryan Gosling from Drive.

uh, doods say the ZN6 is slow because... THE ZN6 IS SLOW!!!

Lets use your example along with a few modern market vehicles too...

S13 Silvia Ks/180sx TypeII/TypeX/TypeR - 210hp/205tq
Sileighty - 225hp/215tq
S14 Silvia Ks - 230hp/218tq
S15 Silvia Spec R - 250hp/238tq
Genny Coupe 2.0 1st gen - 210hp/208tq
Genny Coupe 2.0 2nd gen - 274hp/275tq
Mustang Ecoboost - 310hp/320hp
IS200t FSport - 241hp/240tq~

So... what am I missing here given the Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ are price within the same range of ALL those cars (90s cars pricing adjusted for inflation would be around $26,000-$28,000 in current moneys).

Ive made this argument before, and ill pose it again... there is NO reason the FRS/86/BRZ should only be offered with an N/A motor only! 250-265hp turbo model should have been offered for what the cost of the car is AND what the competition is offering for the SAME PRICE. Ford AND Chevy offer the Mustang and Camaro in horese power levels for ALL ranges of buyers instead of what the Japanese do and say "you get one motor, thats it!"

[Mintyboy]

Originally Posted by LockOn!

80's and 90's Japanese cars were great because we were at the perfect crossroads of power production, and weight. Safety has regulated weight into oblivion, and emissions standards and steered engine tech in a different direction.


Also, you guys are forgetting the economy in Japan was going nuts in the 80s and has been in decline since the 90s. People just aren't buying the sporty shit anymore.


Cars will never be the same. If we are lucky, we will see a blip of sporty electrics like an all electric BMW M3 or things of the sort. Eventually, all these things will be self driving and probably not owned, but rather leased from a provider. We won't be able to modify our cars, work on our cars, or make changes. You just have "your" car, that the company really owns.

This worries me because I can see the transition slowly happening.

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by LockOn!

Cars will never be the same. If we are lucky, we will see a blip of sporty electrics like an all electric BMW M3 or things of the sort. Eventually, all these things will be self driving and probably not owned, but rather leased from a provider. We won't be able to modify our cars, work on our cars, or make changes. You just have "your" car, that the company really owns.

Cars that are not self-driven may even be illegal to drive someday. They'll be deemed dangerous and inferior to cars that are controlled by a computer. What a sad day that will be. That's when I'll move to a 2nd world country and retire with my old cars.

[drewc]

I think as far as performance goes, european cars are the way to go right now. I have been patiently waiting for a new s2000 or 240sx for the last couple of years. But sadly I do not think it will happen.

[Davizz]

Originally Posted by Malik

Its also about how creative you are, stock 240's are pretty lame. wheel fitment rules over everything.

I'll leave this pic here; modern nissans are still dope.

Yeah about that,

R35 is a good looking car with high performance, but:
- no Skyline (wtf not?)
- take a good look at what the prices (new) are doing atm (for starters, the prices on a GTR 3years ago and now) ridiculous how the prices went through the roof[emoji33]

As everyone said, Japan lost they're ambition of making great spec'd, affortable timeless models.
No idea where it went, but Toyota made a well comback (GT86) to start with.

[LockOn!]

Originally Posted by spooled240

Cars that are not self-driven may even be illegal to drive someday. They'll be deemed dangerous and inferior to cars that are controlled by a computer. What a sad day that will be. That's when I'll move to a 2nd world country and retire with my old cars.

I hope this won't be in my life time but it's entirely possible. I think there is an ethical question about a person controlling their fate in an emergency situation versus the human themselves, so legislation as well as our votes when we are crotchety and old may really really slow down the process. Murcan's don't take to kindly to the Gubme't taking our riiaghts.


Researchers are projecting that kids born THIS YEAR will be some of the first to never need to drive a day in their lives if they choose not to.


Let that shit sink in for a minute.

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by LockOn!

Researchers are projecting that kids born THIS YEAR will be some of the first to never need to drive a day in their lives if they choose not to.

depressing statement is depressing...

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by LockOn!

I hope this won't be in my life time but it's entirely possible. I think there is an ethical question about a person controlling their fate in an emergency situation versus the human themselves, so legislation as well as our votes when we are crotchety and old may really really slow down the process. Murcan's don't take to kindly to the Gubme't taking our riiaghts.


Researchers are projecting that kids born THIS YEAR will be some of the first to never need to drive a day in their lives if they choose not to.


Let that shit sink in for a minute.

I think by the time all cars are self-driving the main roadways would be overhauled to work in sync with these self-driving cars. It would be like a virtual rail system so "driving" will be similar to taking a train. You punch in your destination and sit back. By that time, AI would not only control cars, but the majority of human life. Skynet would then begin to be self aware begin to control these cars eliminate people against their own self interests. Then there will be a few old people that would actually know how to drive a car manually and be able to save the world.

[lunchmeat]

Just waiting for the day when cars are so full of tech, they gain sentience, rebel against us meat sacks, and reenact Maximum Overdrive.

[R3b]

When I was driving back from my machinist my dad made a comment on the lines of

"You will probably be the last generation that actually gets to do this" aka build/assembly an engine and a car from the ground up.

I took it with a grain of salt but I could see once Ecars and self driving being a thing in the next 20 years easy that no one will mess with combustion and manual anymore. What we have will be a niche hobby sorta how after digital cameras came and film died out. Film is amazing and has its place but you cant beat how commercialized and obsolete it is compared to digital photography.

Im kinda happy its heading down this root, maybe in the next 50 years we will have gundams or a new motorsport like immortal grand prix.

[LockOn!]

Originally Posted by R3b

What we have will be a niche hobby sorta how after digital cameras came and film died out. Film is amazing and has its place but you cant beat how commercialized and obsolete it is compared to digital photography.

Yeah, we like to argue about how "lame" electric cars are, when In all actualilty they kick the teeth of our 20 year old shit boxs right to the back of their skulls. Instant torque, power vectoring for steering, hybrid power storing, its pretty fucking laughable.

If they could just style one the didn't look like a fucking suppository from outer space auto enthusiast's might start buying in.

Seriously, all electic M2,3,4,5 would be savaaaage

[jedi03]

kids that only want their virtual worlds and not one they control are causing a lot of this change...along with inflation and regulations too..

[Ilya]

Do you think it was a fear tactic that drove the mass population to buy shitty safe cars?
- law that requites all cars to have airbags(you are likely to die from an airbag or from the firefighters not being able to cut you out of a car in time due to one of the airbags not going off)

- law that requires all cars to have abs (because every American drives on ice and wet roads every day and they need to be able to stop on ice from 70mph -0mph safely....here is an idea, don't drive like an idiot in hazardous conditions)

- law that requires all cars to have vehicle stability control (it's not a matter of if, but when the Toyota Corolla will lose control, you need computers to keep you safe)

- law that requires trunks to have release hinges (because every person at least once in their life will be abducted via trunk)

I don't know how a s13 got away with no airbags, no abs, no stability control, no lsd...

[Ilya]

You add all the bullshit regulation that got passed without public knowledge, and I understand why we get the shitboxes that are standing in the dealership parking lots.

[Jefro240]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

Ive made this argument before, and ill pose it again... there is NO reason the FRS/86/BRZ should only be offered with an N/A motor only! 250-265hp turbo model should have been offered for what the cost of the car is AND what the competition is offering for the SAME PRICE. Ford AND Chevy offer the Mustang and Camaro in horese power levels for ALL ranges of buyers instead of what the Japanese do and say "you get one motor, thats it!"

I agree. I initially was tempted by the FRS/BRZ/86 idea but N/A vs price was a huge deal breaker. 2018 will see a boosted BRZ I think I read somewhere... I bet the price will be ridiculous.

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by Jefro240

I agree. I initially was tempted by the FRS/BRZ/86 idea but N/A vs price was a huge deal breaker. 2018 will see a boosted BRZ I think I read somewhere... I bet the price will be ridiculous.

I think a loaded S15 spec R was in the 40k range in today's dollars, so I'd expect it to be around there.

[DaiGurren]

Originally Posted by dizzariot

I really love it when dudes say the ZN6 has no power. My 1988 Silvia Q's has no power. The AE86 has no power. The ZN6 is fine the way it is. In the grand scheme of things, a manual, KA24DE 240SX has enough power. Everyone acts like they can drive a 300HP car with such adept skill. Slow your roll, Ryan Gosling from Drive.

^ Agreed. Plus ZN6's are fun to drive, they're everything a 240SX was back in the day a fun affordable 2 door. Plus there's so much aftermarket support for them.

P.S. drive one guys they're fun, I almost bought one for a daily but ended up with a GS300

[LockOn!]

Originally Posted by Jefro240

2018 will see a boosted BRZ I think I read somewhere...

Never going to happen. Abandon all hope. They will never allow that car cannibalize WRX / STI sales. Like it or not, those chassis sell at a way higher volume and I assume are cheaper to produce because of economies of scale. Ergo, why sell a car that costs more to produce then its power equivalent counterpart, which also sells at a lower volume. It makes no sense.


This topic has been beat to death on Ziliva. The reality is we are a bunch of man children interested in fanboi mobiles from decades past. We are not the target demo. Car makers appeal to people who actually have disposable income. Not project car d00ds who may or may not get their hands on one 5 to 10 years down the line.

Originally Posted by DaiGurren

P.S. drive one guys they're fun, I almost bought one for a daily but ended up with a GS300

This exactly, you're an enthusiast, and even you chose a more practical option. Frankly I drove one, and though it was a slow as shit rattle box. Literally everything already sounded like a decade old Honda. The chassis was EXCELLENT though, I'd love to own one once they get around 5kish for a trackmobile. As a daily, not my flavor.

OOOH also those seats. ZN6 seats / drivers position kicks ass.

[R3b]

Originally Posted by LockOn!

Yeah, we like to argue about how "lame" electric cars are, when In all actualilty they kick the teeth of our 20 year old shit boxs right to the back of their skulls. Instant torque, power vectoring for steering, hybrid power storing, its pretty fucking laughable.

If they could just style one the didn't look like a fucking suppository from outer space auto enthusiast's might start buying in.

Seriously, all electic M2,3,4,5 would be savaaaage

My cousin works for tesla, I kinda want to pitch him the idea for them to join FD with a RWD roadster. Just super gutted and with all there R&D they could make some serious car. He knows some pretty well known higher ups. Just 600hp all electric and torque up the ass it will give a lot of the cars a run for there money.

[dizzariot]

Originally Posted by Jefro240

I agree. I initially was tempted by the FRS/BRZ/86 idea but N/A vs price was a huge deal breaker. 2018 will see a boosted BRZ I think I read somewhere... I bet the price will be ridiculous.

There were a lot of comments since I last hopped on, but I'll reply with your quote.

We're talking about sporty cars AS WELL AS the 'boring trends' of automakers today. You have your answer here: they rated the FRS at 200HP...but they also won't turbo it for 'Toyota reasons'. You guys act flabbergasted but it makes perfect sense in my mind.

I'm not arguing the lack of power when compared to TURBO CARS. I'm talking about the car in it's own right. It's a great package off the lot and if you can't have fun in a stock one you're either having a midlife crisis or your cock is super small. I don't recall any rattles in mine. Once I had it lowered and on some nice wheels/tires it was even better. The only thing that sucks? The community...and I say that as an avid part of the Zilvia community lol.

Just apply USDM S-Chassis logic to the FRS:

1.) Buy it stock
2.) Say the lack of power doesn't bother you
3.) Cave and finally SR swap it (in this case turbo kit, GReddy is CARB legal)

The same logic applies. I'm honestly disheartened that I sold mine. It would've been awesome by now. I'm in fucking Japan and That car is still on my shortlist of cars to own.

[e1_griego]

I think a header and tune fixes up about 75% of the complaints.

The community isn't great, but there are enough people who are building semi-serious track/autox cars that there are some decent parts getting developed and ok knowledge sharing.

Mine rattles a bit but that's after I've added poly inserts everywhere and stiffer motor mounts.

Most people are playing playskool my first sports car with their zn6 so there's tons of cringe and doing it wrong.

As far as the rest of the article, it's spot on.

[Malik]

I cant agree with this thread.

its up to the owners to decide what to do with their cars.

If you're creative enough and you understand tasteful mods: modern cars can be just as attractive as cars from the 90's.

[dizzariot]

Originally Posted by e1_griego

I think a header and tune fixes up about 75% of the complaints.

The community isn't great, but there are enough people who are building semi-serious track/autox cars that there are some decent parts getting developed and ok knowledge sharing.

Mine rattles a bit but that's after I've added poly inserts everywhere and stiffer motor mounts.

Most people are playing playskool my first sports car with their zn6 so there's tons of cringe and doing it wrong.

As far as the rest of the article, it's spot on.

I went with the turbo metaphor because the complaint always seems to revolve around forced induction.

I was on the verge of headers/OFT when I ultimately decided to pull the plug and start out.

The majority of dudes bitching about the ZN6 wouldn't be happy with 240WHP. Everything is excess nowadays.

There are so many idiots here buying GTRs, Supras, and Chasers. The first two are normally the only two Japanese cars these guys have ever heard of. The last one is the 'new cool thing' on base. Plenty of people are touching 800HP+ but when asked why they always say "just to have it." Excess. Same shit with the ZN6. How many horses can you really use before you're eating shit or getting multiple tickets.

[dizzariot]

Originally Posted by Malik

I cant agree with this thread.

its up to the owners to decide what to do with their cars.

If you're creative enough and you understand tasteful mods: modern cars can be just as attractive as cars from the 90's.

...no offense but this is typical of a guy that posted a RocketBunny R35 lol.

Just giving you a hard time.

[lunchmeat]

My biggest beef with the 86 is the cup holder location and lack of an arm rest. Yea, I'm a nitpicky bastard.

[Malik]

Originally Posted by dizzariot

...no offense but this is typical of a guy that posted a RocketBunny R35 lol.

Just giving you a hard time.

its all good bro, its just the internet