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Chat General Discussion About The Nissan 240SX and Nissan Z Cars |
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11-19-2014, 04:18 PM | #1 |
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Opinions on Most Streetable LSD?
So I'm considering purchasing a LSD for my S14 soon but I've heard a lot of mixed opinions on getting one. I wanted to make a thread with definitive information about them. I'm starting to think it's a matter of opinion but there has to be a threshold somewhere right?
From what I collect,there were conflicting opinions on whether or not to shim a VLSD, some say that's too aggressive. Some people said get a diff with adjustable breakaway settings like a KAAZ and set it to around 70 ft-lbs of breakaway torque. I read not to get a 2-way diff for daily driving but someone else said that they think 2-way diffs are better and that 1.5-way diffs are made for inexperienced drivers? I don't think the latter is true to be honest but I wanted to hear some opinions. Also, as far as differential oil should one just ask the manufacturer of the differential for best thickness or is there a recommended thickness for all aftermarket differentials? People at my college autoshop keep recommending I weld my diff but I'm really not trying to do that as this is my daily driver lol. I'm also looking for maximum reliability. |
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11-19-2014, 04:35 PM | #2 |
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I'm going to provide input on this...as I just literally about a month ago ask a similar question to numerous of members on this forum AND I made a thread in the tech section.
What we need to first clarify is, what do you mean by "most streetable" For me: Streetable = can be daily driven without extra "work" on the driver OR severe lost in "comfort" in various of conditions and circumstances (weather, roads i.e). *work & comfort is also subjective Anyways, before the most "streetable" question can be answer, you also need to ask what is your goals? Is it a street drift car? is it going to see more DD than drift? more drift than DD? are you circuit lapping? Because in my opinion, this is the most crucial information needed before you a decision can be made. I have a VLSD (I love driving spirited on the freeways) but I have recently acquired an welded diff that needs to be reinforced (my thread is in the tech section, ill post it in a minute) and I got the welded because I'm ready to take the next step in improving my drifting. I was going to save up for a 2 way to do it the right way, but a welded for $50 and with the diff in amazing condition...I couldn't pass it up lol. I'm getting ready to install it in the coming days to test it. So I can possibly provide some input as a newbie to welders when I drop out my VLSD But there is tons of other guys on here who has experience in welders and LSD, so hopefully they chime in. Oh yea my car is a DD also, so we are in the same boat.
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11-19-2014, 04:58 PM | #4 |
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completely silent + maintenance free = S15 HLSD
streetable + change oil every 15-30k miles of normal driving = KAAZ or Cusco loud as shit but locks up tighter than a pair of your sisters jeans = ATS 2 way almost silent + change oil every 15-30k miles + EXPENSIVE = Carbonetics 2 way |
11-19-2014, 05:14 PM | #6 |
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I totally <3 my S15 HLSD never been happier... very different than a clutch type in that it never locks, it just transfers torque, but for daily driving and occasional spirited driving or drifting, its perfect!
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11-19-2014, 05:45 PM | #7 | ||
Zilvia Junkie
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To answer your question more directly it is my daily driver that gets thorough use and occasionally goes on trips up to 500 miles round trip. I also enjoy thrashing it around stop signs and what not while I'm getting the handle on keeping the car controlled in a drift. I just make sure not to push my limits too far, if you or anyone else thinks that I'm stupid and should take it to a track I don't really care lol I've heard it all before. I also enjoy being able to handle well through curves so the HLSD that has been mentioned is appealing but not if I can't lock up my wheels and slide! I think I would rather get the hang of driving a car that can lose traction on hard acceleration and deceleration and will grip and push you through the curves still at a moderate throttle. Moreso than a car with HLSD should it have no means of locking the wheels but can handle through curves extremely well, which it clearly can aha. Quote:
Also, thanks for the list of options earlier it clarified a lot of points I was confused about. |
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11-19-2014, 05:51 PM | #8 |
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I agree with above..I've heard the s15 helical was good for road racing and street but suck for drifting..is like to hear what you guys have about it
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11-19-2014, 06:13 PM | #9 |
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I run helicals on all my cars - IMO, the best LSD money can buy.
VLSD is cheap and good. Only drawback I recall was that it slips a tiny bit before it actually engages, but for a street car they work and work well. No maintenance. HLSD is just superior, it works like magic and the rear stays planted. They're also pretty indestructible and require no maintenance. Be warned though, if you attempt to do the S15 HLSD upgrade be prepared to buy the whole parts list: HLSD + output shafts + nismo ring gear bolts. If you're a cheap fuck you can sleeve the bolts. Clutch type would be for competition use. Clutch discs require servicing. |
11-19-2014, 06:24 PM | #10 | |
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11-19-2014, 07:05 PM | #11 |
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I had a nismo 1.5 way clutch type in my RB S13. I loved it. It clunked a little but was absolutely not a problem as a daily driver. If you're drifting I would say just go for a clutch type, you might as well.
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11-19-2014, 07:25 PM | #12 |
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11-19-2014, 07:44 PM | #13 | |||
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HLSDs dont lock. They transfer torque between the wheels with the most grip. R200 rear ends are R200 rear ends, there are no compatibility issues. S15 diff will fit just fine an S14 pumpkin. S15 pumpkin is just an small evolution of the S14 pumpkin. I think Nissan just added a spot for the speed sensor as it was moved from the tranny to the diff. |
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11-19-2014, 08:31 PM | #14 |
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Another crucial step is cleaning out the threaded holes of the ring gear thoroughly. They are always gunked up with old loctite and oil. Once cleaned, apply fresh loctite to bolts and tighten in an even star pattern with an impact gun that can handle the job. FSM states 98-112 ft/lbs of torque on the ring gear bolts.
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11-19-2014, 10:25 PM | #15 |
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I had an s15 HLSD...it wasn't my favorite as far as "drift novelty" but it was very consistant with what it did, and it was veeeeeery smooth for an "old" nissan diff. Way more reliable than the average VLSD that I can't even get to lock up half the time.
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11-20-2014, 06:18 AM | #16 |
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Informative thread! Not an LSD, per se, but I daily drove on a welded diff for around 2 years and had no issues.
I'm not trying to bring up the whole welded diff debate that usually stems from this but just some food for thought if you're tight on cash and can't make the leap to a nice LSD. I'll keep it short but keep in mind that in daily use from a responsible driver, you will actually understeer more than oversteer with a welded. A lot of people are under the impression dailying a welded is an impossible feat to do. PM me if you have more questions or just search, welded diff discussion has been talked over and over again. I'm level-headed and will answer any questions you have about it. |
11-20-2014, 07:37 AM | #17 | ||
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All that matters if your being responsible, not trying go FnF Tokyo Drift and attempt to be sliding in the middle of traffic like pretending to be the DK, and not putting any bystanders in harms way, other than that, learning on the street is good. Of course it may not give you track etiquette or whatever, but you will learn to adapt to unpredictable changes and learn to be more aware of things. But anyways back on topic, more or less you sound like me and the direction I'm heading with my car. I'm currently in the process of building a street "spirited" DD drift car per se. I love drifting, but I love freeway running (and no not street racing) also. I believe in your case to sum it up, you should check out a welder or opt out for a 1.5 way (if your budget allows)? I know a lot of guys have mention the Helical, I have not experience nor knowledge so I can't help you with that, but I have been in a 1.5 way that hot laps on the circuit and seen tons of welders. I truly don't think driving a welded daily is as bad as people made them out to be. I think most people just don't want do the extra work, pay extra attention to what they're doing and drive even more defensive on daily. lol. (which is good actually) EDIT: Since you do drive 300+ miles occasional round trips. One thing to keep in mind, a clutch type LSD needs to be service sooner or later and needs it's oil change more often the others. If your looking for up-most reliability, to be sincerely honest, I think the welded would probably be the most reliable IF AND ONLY IF IT'S WELDED PROPERLY. You don't have to worry about no servicing or anything, just change oil maybe if you feel like it. The HLSD based on the other's responses sounds also the same. Essentially it sounds like these two would be the best picks for your application. Quote:
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11-20-2014, 09:54 AM | #19 | ||
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As dorki said, a helical differential is not a locking differential. Its a torque sensing differential. If my understanding is correct, when one side slips it applies the percentage of the slip to the opposing wheel.
There are a lot of white papers out there that you can read. Google information on the TORSEN brand differentials (or QUAIFE) and you will find more than enough information on how these gems work. These differentials come stock on numerous high performance applications from Supra Turbo, Mustang Cobra, McLaren F1, Miata, Audi Quatro, etc. I thought it was interesting that McLaren current 12C does not have a limited slip diff. From what I gather its all managed with fancy electronics. Still, I prefer mechanical. If you ever look at the insides the helical gears remind me of a nice precision watch. I still think its all voodoo magic. here are a couple links: http://torsen.info/files/Torsen%20T-...al%20Sheet.pdf http://torsen.info/files/Torsen%20T-...al%20Sheet.pdf http://torsen.info/files/Torsen%20Pe...al%20Sheet.pdf If you guys need a source for used JDM differentials, contact Gordon @ DUAX MACHINE. He's the man. Quote:
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People who skimp out on shit like this just blow my mind. |
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11-20-2014, 11:17 AM | #21 |
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+1 for Gordon @ DUAX machine. He sells on ebay frequently but you can contact him off ebay and he'll still sell you one.
Between both my cars I've had 3 helicals and for the money they can't be beat. However, I prefer clutch type diffs because they're more linear and don't transfer power back and forth. For daily driving it doesn't matter at all, but for autox especially it becomes a distraction and it's harder to place the car. As far as my diff preference, OS Giken are the smoothest diffs I've driven (and now I have one in each s13) and work beautifully. No clunks, pops, skittered tires, or any of the typical clutch type behavior. Plus, they have a 20k km fluid change interval, though the fluid is expensive as hell. But I suspect the fluid is a big reason the diffs are so unbelievably smooth given the mount of friction modifier in it. |
11-20-2014, 12:51 PM | #22 |
Zilvia Junkie
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One of these is not like the others lol.
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11-20-2014, 01:13 PM | #23 | |
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friction modifier can be a bad thing in clutch and torsen based diffs. before using a gear oil that you either add friction modifier to or has it included, you should check with the manufacturer prior to the gear oil change. friction modifier can actually burn the clutch plates out much faster. |
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11-20-2014, 01:18 PM | #24 | |
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You're talking like I'm adding extra modifier. I just use OSG fluid, as prescribed by OSG.
Giken also states that their diffs don't need a break-in or rebuild. Quote:
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11-20-2014, 02:05 PM | #26 | |
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11-20-2014, 02:24 PM | #27 | |
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I've heard talk of welded differentials causing broken axles and other complications which is the only reason I wouldn't get one despite the low budget and maintenance-free manner of them. I don't mind paying extra attention while driving, slowing down on turns, etc. It's just I don't want anything done improperly if it's going to cause problems later. Thanks for all the input on welded diffs though seems they're not as bad as I thought. |
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11-20-2014, 02:32 PM | #29 |
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im gonna be blunt, dont do some ghetto ass shit and weld your diff, especially for daily driving. do it RIGHT the first time and buy an actual diff, be it 1 way HLSD or 1.5/2 way clutch type LSD. its one thing if youre building a car that is nothing but a drift mule to weld your diff... but i can tell you from experience, if you want something to work right the first time and LAST... do it RIGHT the first time!!!
PS: regardless of what people are saying about clutch type diffs... i daily drove mine for YEARS with NO issues. just occasionally change the gear oil and youre fine. if youre constantly beating on the diff via track/drifting then clutches will wear out after a few years worth of abuse... but if youre seeing light track duty, standard clutch packs will last your 5-7 years with interval gear oil changes. the reason we are suggesting the HLSD is that it NEVER wears out, for daily/spirited driving and light track duty theyre awesome and can be had very easily AND cheaply... usually around the price range of $500 for a complete one. aftermarket 1.5 and 2 ways will usually run past $1000 now. the S15 diffs also hold their price value IF you sell them with the proper output shafts... DO NOT BUY AN S15 HLSD WITHOUT THE S15 OUTPUT SHAFTS!!!! S15 OUTPUT SHAFTS ARE 30 SPLINE!!! EVERY OTHER DIFF NISSAN HAS MADE USES 29 SPLINE!!! |
11-20-2014, 02:38 PM | #30 |
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Yeah, for the money s15 helical can't be beat. It's 1/3 the price of OSG and works great. No maintenance, no noise, nothing.
It wasn't until I went to r-comps that I wanted to upgrade. |
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