3rd Debate - Are you really undecided...still?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by LEG1T

I guess that is clear with you and that's cool, but let's talk about Romney "trying" to sell himself as what? Can you confidently say that you know what he sells himself on? Agreeing with the president on most of foreign policy, after going against him weeks before?

Romney is "Not Obama", and I think that is his only appeal. I certainly would have never put him on the Republican ticket, then again now way in hell would I put McCain and Pallen on one either!

Bush made sense back then, it was more about values and American traditions. People cared about our failing schools, gun control and stem cell research - everything changed with 9/11.


But back to the Romulan and Obmao. By and large the majority of people that voted for Obama don't know him or care. It's all about the marketing campaign of Hope and Change, people are enthralled with his cult of personality.

I've had more than one person say "how could you not vote for him, it was like making history..."

This is Ben Harris vs LBJ.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

I did not blame the economy on Bush. I blame the two wars on his regime, I don't put the economy at his feet.

Obama controlled the entire Government for two years, we actually stayed longer in Iraq under Obama's plan then what Bush had intended.

Also, we killed Binladen, so ask Obama why are we still in that shit hole.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

Would love to see your 'proof' that FDR extended the Depression.

"I" don't need to prove it. It's a done... Deal.

Google "FDR prolonged the depression" and you'll find plenty of news articles and academic journals about it, from both American and foreign economists.

You can also check out the book "New Deal, Raw Deal". It will shock the shit out of you how much your 9th grade text book omitted.

[LEG1T]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Romney is "Not Obama", and I think that is his only appeal. I certainly would have never put him on the Republican ticket, then again now way in hell would I put McCain and Pallen on one either!

Bush made sense back then, it was more about values and American traditions. People cared about our failing schools, gun control and stem cell research - everything changed with 9/11.


But back to the Romulan and Obmao. By and large the majority of people that voted for Obama don't know him or care. It's all about the marketing campaign of Hope and Change, people are enthralled with his cult of personality.

I've had more than one person say "how could you not vote for him, it was like making history..."

This is Ben Harris vs LBJ.

Fair Enough, I see where you are coming from.

[gbaby2089]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Obama controlled the entire Government for two years, we actually stayed longer in Iraq under Obama's plan then what Bush had intended.

Also, we killed Binladen, so ask Obama why are we still in that shit hole.

We killed Osama in Pakistan though.

I honestly can't tell you why we're still in Afghanistan. It was a moronic choice to try to develop a functioning state there, it will never work. The arbitrary national borders put so many different groups in there, combine that with the terrain which make true interaction between nearly impossible, make it a pipe dream to have a real gov't.

Originally Posted by Corbic

"I" don't need to prove it. It's a done... Deal.

Google "FDR prolonged the depression" and you'll find plenty of news articles and academic journals about it, from both American and foreign economists.

You can also check out the book "New Deal, Raw Deal". It will shock the shit out of you how much your 9th grade text book omitted.

I could find things that say exactly the opposite from equally credible sources. We don't know what would have happened had we let the invisible hand guide the US economy.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

We killed Osama in Pakistan though.

I honestly can't tell you why we're still in Afghanistan. It was a moronic choice to try to develop a functioning state there, it will never work. The arbitrary national borders put so many different groups in there, combine that with the terrain which make true interaction between nearly impossible, make it a pipe dream to have a real gov't.



I could find things that say exactly the opposite from equally credible sources. We don't know what would have happened had we let the invisible hand guide the US economy.

If they are saying the opposite, then they are not creditable.

Nobody is supporting the "invisible hand" theory, which is better left to 9th grade teachers and middle school logic.

The policies put in place did not target economic growth, but the increased power and control of the central government. These also strangled communities and industry. The entire farce was well planned and staffed to help FDR consolidate power.


I love how many people gloss over the fact that while every president before him graciously stepped down from the ballot after two terms, FDR was content to make it a "for life" positions.

These are the same people that scream and cry over what Putin is doing.

[gbaby2089]

Originally Posted by Corbic

If they are saying the opposite, then they are not creditable.

Nobody is supporting the "invisible hand" theory, which is better left to 9th grade teachers and middle school logic.

The policies put in place did not target economic growth, but the increased power and control of the central government. These also strangled communities and industry. The entire farce was well planned and staffed to help FDR consolidate power.


I love how many people gloss over the fact that while every president before him graciously stepped down from the ballot after two terms, FDR was content to make it a "for life" positions.

These are the same people that scream and cry over what Putin is doing.

One would have to be naive to complain about what Putin is doing, he's exploiting the system he's in to its fullest.

And FDR didn't have to be reelected, the American people wanted more.

[dluevanos01]

I'm still undecided. in terms of policy, Obama is better unless you're rich. In terms of the economy, both of them have NO clue of what they are talking about. As an economics major, the debates where like a comedy show because all they were saying was non sense, I think only one statement by Obama in yesterdays debate actually made sense, but I can recall it. When Mitt Romney talks about creating X number of jobs(believe he said 2 million) he can't do that with out significantly increasing the national debt since it will throw his budget way off.

but aside from that there is an economic model that we reviewed in class dealing with presidential elections, and the result was that Romney will most likely win(this was done after the first debate)

Basically you have both left and right wing parties. From both sides we have people who will vote for the smaller parties no matter what, then we have the people who are either republican or democrats, and in the middle we have the undecided(medium) voter. they are the ones who basically decide elections.

Now in 2008, there were significantly more voter than in previous elections. That was because a large portion of the medium voters actually voted. Now, the economic model says that they will only show up if there is something significantly different than before. and in 2008, there was a candidate that was from a minority group(African american) thus they wanted to make history, by electing him.

Now in 2012, they do't have that motive anymore so experts expect the number of voter to be less than in 2008.

Now after the first debate, the media said Romney won, thus people opinion change when there is new information available to them, so after the first presidential debate Romney had pulled a greater percentage of the Medium voter.

finally, It is not decisive because of the last two debates and the uncertainty and error of the economic model, but in order for Obama to win he has to swing a large portion of the medium voter to his side. If he did that or not it's up to each and every individual but we'll see come election day

[Highway Riding]

Originally Posted by dluevanos01

I'm still undecided. in terms of policy, Obama is better unless you're rich.

One of the greatest misconceptions. His policies will in fact bury the middle class further into debt with soaring health costs and day to day costs of living. He speaks of making it more affordable to those looking to get higher ed but all this is doing is increasing the debt owed to the government without creating jobs. He acts as if he is the greatest savior to the middle but he is not. Now this can be said of the poor. When he speaks of the middle class he almost always says " AND THOSE STRIVING TO GET INTO THE MIDDLE CLASS" . (meaning fixing the middle is not his real agenda) What he really has done has driven the middle closer to poverty. Extending those devilish BUSH era tax cuts while providing no tax plan of his own which was worthy. The real life now is the evidence to all of this. Cronyism at it's worst. There is a reason all the mickey mouse polls are now showing a different picture. Let's just hope it's a not a bait and switch so the media can get back some respect if any at all!

[gbaby2089]

Originally Posted by Highway Riding

One of the greatest misconceptions. His policies will in fact bury the middle class further into debt with soaring health costs and day to day costs of living. He speaks of making it more affordable to those looking to get higher ed but all this is doing is increasing the debt owed to the government without creating jobs. He acts as if he is the greatest savior to the middle but he is not. Now this can be said of the poor. When he speaks of the middle class he almost always says " AND THOSE STRIVING TO GET INTO THE MIDDLE CLASS" . (meaning fixing the middle is not his real agenda) What he really has done has driven the middle closer to poverty. Extending those devilish BUSH era tax cuts while providing no tax plan of his own which was worthy. The real life now is the evidence to all of this. Cronyism at it's worst. There is a reason all the mickey mouse polls are now showing a different picture. Let's just hope it's a not a bait and switch so the media can get back some respect if any at all!

Where are these soaring health costs? I don't feel that.
Day-to-day costs are rising yes, but how is the president going to control this? Subsidize EVERYTHING?

What's wrong with wanting people to be able to rise in socioeconomic class? An inability to elevate one's class is a recipe for instability within the country.

[Highway Riding]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

Where are these soaring health costs? I don't feel that.
Day-to-day costs are rising yes, but how is the president going to control this? Subsidize EVERYTHING?

What's wrong with wanting people to be able to rise in socioeconomic class? An inability to elevate one's class is a recipe for instability within the country.

Well i can speak for my self. My heathcare has gone up in preparation by about $200 per month in the last 3 months after 11 years employment. And yes nothing wrong with improving classes but at what cost? Again your are not un-decided if you don't see what is wrong today and it is ok. This is why we have a multi party system.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

One would have to be naive to complain about what Putin is doing, he's exploiting the system he's in to its fullest.

And FDR didn't have to be reelected, the American people wanted more.

Negative Ghost Rider.

Read that book. Its a easy read. Part of the whole "shovel ready" thing comes from basically district bribery. No-Vote - no money.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

Where are these soaring health costs? I don't feel that.
Day-to-day costs are rising yes, but how is the president going to control this? Subsidize EVERYTHING?

What's wrong with wanting people to be able to rise in socioeconomic class? An inability to elevate one's class is a recipe for instability within the country.

Why not remove the laws restricting insurance companies from competing across state lines?

How is making it mandatory to have insurance going to make it less... seems like they can then charge whatever they want... since we HAVE to pay.

Obviously you don't pay your own rates, it has gone up DRAMATICALLY in the last 4 years.

[gbaby2089]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Negative Ghost Rider.

Read that book. Its a easy read. Part of the whole "shovel ready" thing comes from basically district bribery. No-Vote - no money.

I'd rather not read it. Political opinion pieces are boring, I read enough political trash as it is. If I'm reading a book for something other than class, I'm reading something I enjoy.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

I'd rather not read it. Political opinion pieces are boring, I read enough political trash as it is. If I'm reading a book for something other than class, I'm reading something I enjoy.

It's hardly a "political opinion piece." Its a historical book full of factual information. It tells you about all those other programs and laws omitted from your 9th grade text book.


So what, your not going to read a book about the Nazi's cause the author may have a bias against them?

[gbaby2089]

Originally Posted by Corbic

It's hardly a "political opinion piece." Its a historical book full of factual information. It tells you about all those other programs and laws omitted from your 9th grade text book.


So what, your not going to read a book about the Nazi's cause the author may have a bias against them?

Why do you keep throwing out the 9th grade?

I wouldn't read about Nazis, outside of Mario Puzo's "Six Graves to Munich."

[Phlip]

Corbic: Would it kill you to quote all of one person's points in one post, or is it a tactic of yours to combat your horrible spelling and grammar to spread it out over 2-5 posts at a time?

Damn!


Also: 45 posts in, Mike Godwin wins again

[TheWolf]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

uch as that, but he doesn't have the power to reverse a drop with the drop of a bill.

And from ok to worse doesn't make sense since unemployment is back to where it was and the stock market is booming.

Yes stock market is booming...... new 7 week low today... I'll even put $10 on the fact that unemployment gets revised above 8% from the last fake jobs report.

Dow tumbles 240 points to seven-week low - Oct. 23, 2012

Show me the growth!!! For the financials on obamacare, SSN and medicare to work out, GDP should be at 4+% for the next five years. It's at 1.3% down from 2% down from a peak of 3% where it was preceded by a 1.8%, 1.3%, 0.4% quarter. Show me the growth!!! Words are nice but at the end of the day there's alot more said than done. Obama proves that in spades. Runs his lips. Sits on his ass.

Along with the fact that obama's platform is basic class warfare. Surprise no one with any money wants to hire. "Social Justice" is for thieves plain and simple.

No one should have to work for my existence, and I shouldn't have to work for someone else's.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Phlip

Corbic: Would it kill you to quote all of one person's points in one post, or is it a tactic of yours to combat your horrible spelling and grammar to spread it out over 2-5 posts at a time?

Damn!


Also: 45 posts in, Mike Godwin wins again

Eye blaim TAKATAWK an der iFone. Brake to hard up one qwote and respawn to eech point.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

Why do you keep throwing out the 9th grade?

I wouldn't read about Nazis, outside of Mario Puzo's "Six Graves to Munich."

So you have no intrest in either history or better educating your self on world events?

That explains a lot.


9th grade has become even more relevant because I'm sure that is the total extent to what you know about FDR. 9th grade is referenced (in place of say 10th) because that is the year I personally had a lengthy American history class in which we covered all the presidents and had to write a paper about the most important.

I still remember how half the class wrote about FDR as if he was fucking Jesus Christ returned to us. I in my youth I wrote about Teddy. If I was to do it again I would clearly pick Lincoln, like any other rational person.

[ZEB808]

I never got a job from a poor person! Vote Romney! That's all...

[dluevanos01]

Originally Posted by ZEB808

I never got a job from a poor person! Vote Romney! That's all...

that's good, but If you're implying that Rich people, create jobs then, you are probably miss informed. about half of the people who are employed in the US are hired by small businesses and not the big firms(LINK). Now I don't know if Romney wants to keep the Bush tax cuts but I'm assuming he is, then the Rich people, those who make above $250,000 a year, invest in stocks or in another for of nominal asset, rather than in actually opening a business. Thus the trickle down theory of Reaganomics does not work because buying stock and similar assets doesn't help create jobs nor help the production process. all it does is give a revenue to the stock holders in the form of dividends.


As far as poor person hiring someone is not possible, but how about a middle class person?

Originally Posted by Highway Riding

One of the greatest misconceptions. His policies will in fact bury the middle class further into debt with soaring health costs and day to day costs of living. He speaks of making it more affordable to those looking to get higher ed but all this is doing is increasing the debt owed to the government without creating jobs. He acts as if he is the greatest savior to the middle but he is not. Now this can be said of the poor. When he speaks of the middle class he almost always says " AND THOSE STRIVING TO GET INTO THE MIDDLE CLASS" . (meaning fixing the middle is not his real agenda) What he really has done has driven the middle closer to poverty. Extending those devilish BUSH era tax cuts while providing no tax plan of his own which was worthy. The real life now is the evidence to all of this. Cronyism at it's worst. There is a reason all the mickey mouse polls are now showing a different picture. Let's just hope it's a not a bait and switch so the media can get back some respect if any at all!

Well his Healthcare reform wasn't that great. But through economics, this health care was included when calculating the wage you get paid form the benefits part of the equation. Assuming healthcare was paid by your employer. So like taxes, no matter if you or your employer your would have to send a check to the Government. And the middle class was affected by the tax cuts because the government did not get that revenue in order to have a balanced budget or help with transfer payments or government expenditure. and actually I think he mention eradicating the Bush tax cuts on people earning $250,000 or more. Now if you're hoping to see all the information in the media, as in TV, newspapers or even some internet sites, I don't think it's ever going to happen, since they are sponsored and not free media.

[gbaby2089]

Originally Posted by Corbic

So you have no intrest in either history or better educating your self on world events?

That explains a lot.


9th grade has become even more relevant because I'm sure that is the total extent to what you know about FDR. 9th grade is referenced (in place of say 10th) because that is the year I personally had a lengthy American history class in which we covered all the presidents and had to write a paper about the most important.

I still remember how half the class wrote about FDR as if he was fucking Jesus Christ returned to us. I in my youth I wrote about Teddy. If I was to do it again I would clearly pick Lincoln, like any other rational person.

I'm fairly well versed in the Nazis, how/why they rose to power, etc.

My education on FDR goes well beyond the 9th grade, we obviously believe in different economic models. I'm a firm believer in Keynes' theory, you're not.

[Highway Riding]

Originally Posted by dluevanos01

that's good, but If you're implying that Rich people, create jobs then, you are probably miss informed. about half of the people who are employed in the US are hired by small businesses and not the big firms(LINK). Now I don't know if Romney wants to keep the Bush tax cuts but I'm assuming he is, then the Rich people, those who make above $250,000 a year, invest in stocks or in another for of nominal asset, rather than in actually opening a business. Thus the trickle down theory of Reaganomics does not work because buying stock and similar assets doesn't help create jobs nor help the production process. all it does is give a revenue to the stock holders in the form of dividends.


As far as poor person hiring someone is not possible, but how about a middle class person?


Well his Healthcare reform wasn't that great. But through economics, this health care was included when calculating the wage you get paid form the benefits part of the equation. Assuming healthcare was paid by your employer. So like taxes, no matter if you or your employer your would have to send a check to the Government. And the middle class was affected by the tax cuts because the government did not get that revenue in order to have a balanced budget or help with transfer payments or government expenditure. and actually I think he mention eradicating the Bush tax cuts on people earning $250,000 or more. Now if you're hoping to see all the information in the media, as in TV, newspapers or even some internet sites, I don't think it's ever going to happen, since they are sponsored and not free media.

I'm not hoping for a garsh darn thing other than electing Mitt Romney. His theories on Job creation are spot on. The POTUS had 4 years to address the inevitable and did not. He focused on healthcare and nothing else. Let's not forget that the POTUS also wasn't the abortion advocate he is now being portrayed thanks to Biden. I have ZERO confidence that the POTUS will do anything different in the next 4 years other then increase debt. Which in turn will increase the decay of this country. Fiscal cliff also looming. But that gets swept under the rug.

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by ZEB808

I never got a job from a poor person! Vote Romney! That's all...

No you just sell them goods and services. Vote Obama so the poor and middle class actually have money to drive the economy.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

I'm fairly well versed in the Nazis, how/why they rose to power, etc.

My education on FDR goes well beyond the 9th grade, we obviously believe in different economic models. I'm a firm believer in Keynes' theory, you're not.

Oh do tell.. what is Keynes' Theory besides some snarky news bites and rhetoric.

Did you actually do any research into various economic theories, read about actual economic events, how certain mandates where put and place and what the real life consequences where?

ND/RD has nothing to do with Romney, Tea Party, Reagan or any other modern garbage. It is exclusively about the 20's and 30's and the poor choices made back then. Those who refuse to learn from failure and study history are doomed to repeat it.

[gbaby2089]

Man, you hop all over the map in order to give yourself some sort of feeling of superiority.

You brought up the ND, you brought up LBJ, you keep repeating that today matters, pick a side and stick to it, Mitt.

[word sux]

This debate was pretty hilarious. It was funny watching rommney reverse many of his statements that he used to woo republicans and pander like the sleezeball he is. Not that I like obama any better. Republicrats and demicans are two sides of the same coin to me. Honestly I really don't know who I would prefer get elected but rommney and ryan scare the crap out of me. After hearing some of ryan's statements he seem like a warhawk.

[ZEB808]

Liberalism is a mental disorder!

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by ZEB808

Liberalism is a mental disorder!

Well Churchill once said..

"I'd call any young man who is not liberal heartless, but any old man who is an idiot".

Or something to that effect.