Donald Trump For President

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by spooled240

[/COLOR]


Also from the article:
"Because of the differences in both seizure
size and average purity, it is currently not
possible to determine which source, Mexico
or China, is the greater direct threat as a
supplier of fentanyl to the United States.
While seizures likely originating in Mexico
represent the largest total gross weight of
fentanyl seized in the United States"



Not exactly what I took away from reading this section.


I'll read more of this later.

Fair statement. However, if you read a little further, Mexico gets alot of their supply from China and weight isn't necessarily the only issue to focus on

However, that negates the point I am trying to bring across; they are not smuggling across open, sprawling parts of the SWB through "illegal" entry. That has been the entire argument for a wall; to protect these supposed "illegal" smuggling zones that are currently not patrolled or "protected". Actually, there are really no stats to support such an argument come to think of it. That is contrary to what the DEA report surmises and has made mention to on multiple occasions throughout the report. They are smuggling through LEGAL Points of Entry. That has been the argument since day one.

Not saying it doesn't happen through parts of border not patrolled.

And I am going to ask the question again; what is the difference between border security and the wall?? Border Security has been funded (I think there was $20billion+ (don't quote me on that exact number, but it is in the billions) allocated in the budget trump vetoed) every single year for the past 20, 30 or whatever it is years. The fact that the media and trump continue to conflate the two is nonsense. Border Security has ALWAYS been funded. Simple

[SimpleS14]

For now I don't think Roger Stone will cooperate with the SCO. The charges presented to him in the indictment will lead to probably six months of prison time (if convicted). I think there's more potential charges pending against him that the SCO is holding back. Specifically a charge along the lines of "Conspiracy to defraud the United States".

Looking at how these indictments are being laid out, the SCO is building a case and connecting the dots bit by bit ultimately leading to the endgame, which is a conspiracy or attempted conspiracy involving entities in U.S.and Russia.

As for the shutdown, IMO, it highlighted a lot of flaws in the administration and the Republican senate majority. It also highlighted the income disparity throughout the nation and how out of touch those at the top really are (i.e. Wilbur Ross). On a positive note, fellow Americans did come together to support each other through donations, food banks and deferments on financial obligations.

The coast-to-coast physical wall is not getting built. There's topology where it physically can't get built, logistics of getting it built and maintained would be absurdly expensive and people have private property along the border they will not relinquish. George W. Bush attempted land seizure through imminent domain (as part of the Secure Fence Act of 2006) and there are still lawsuits in the court fighting against this. What will most likely happen is additional funding towards the broader concept of border security, which the administration could spin as a "win" IMO.

[RalliartRsX]

^^ great post.

When I mention imminent domain with regards to building a wall up staunch wall supporters and the response I get is "where you host your instagram pictures" then folks have no concept of how any of this works..

[RalliartRsX]

Also in terms of Mueller, it's text book how this all plays out in building a very strong case. .
Perfect example; the mistake in redaction my manaforts lawyers. That is a glimpse into just how much information Mueller has compiled. You pick off the small fry and work your way up.

Just like how you get a mob boss. Interesting to watch his unfold

[RalliartRsX]

PS Roger stone has a tattoo of Nixon on his back.....

That's all I will say about that.

Pandering like he is banking on a presidential pardon. As the Mueller case builds, the chance of him getting the presidential pardon may become less and less likely by the day.

As it stands, I don't think he will sing.....however, he may not need to and Mueller may have all that he needs.

PS Giuliani made the mistake to announce there are tapes, texts and emails lol!

[Phlip]

I think the attempt at a land grab would be the effective murder of the whole thing. Land owners fighting that in court will outlast the administration, then the appetite for the project will have all but waned.

Giuliani is showing to be the kind of lawyer you hire to fight a small traffic ticket and winds up getting you convicted of murder.

[gbaby2089]

nopenopenope

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

I'm not sure the land grab hurts him.

Trump's supporters have shown a desire to have him/his people come up with policies that hurt his voters most and they come back with even more affection for him.

Not that it will hurt him with his fans, but it will drag out so long legally that it will eventually fade and go away before it becomes a real thing.
Granted, the attempts to do so will be STUPID expensive and further argument against the cost vs effectiveness of it, but they will also ignore that part too.

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

I'm not sure the land grab hurts him.

Trump's supporters have shown a desire to have him/his people come up with policies that hurt his voters most and they come back with even more affection for him.

As mentioned by Phlip, its not the action but the execution. Good luck.

In addition, is he declares of state of Emergency and attempts to grab land, the eminent domain laws still very much apply.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

As mentioned by Phlip, its not the action but the execution. Good luck.

In addition, is he declares of state of Emergency and attempts to grab land, the eminent domain laws still very much apply.

He will still be met with a lengthy enough legal fight to the emergency declaration that it will drag on WELL into the 2020 election cycle and beyond.

[Corbic]

Saw this, laughed, then got somber as I realized it's true and just how sad that is....

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[Phlip]

I'm glad all those Benghazi investigations turned up some big-name indictments, charges and convictions.
May those sons of bitches rot in prison, then hell

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Phlip

I'm glad all those Benghazi investigations turned up some big-name indictments, charges and convictions.
May those sons of bitches rot in prison, then hell

I'm glad the federal legal system has not been hijacked by politics and partisans.

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[RalliartRsX]

LOL @ Corbic.

Mexico pay for the way yet?
Where's your proof Obama started a recession?
Anyone from the dnc campaign charged?

I'm just going to keep repeating all the falsehoods you posted until you actually post some proof......

[gbaby2089]

nopenopenope

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

LOL @ Corbic.

Mexico pay for the way yet?
Where's your proof Obama started a recession?
Anyone from the dnc campaign charged?

I'm just going to keep repeating all the falsehoods you posted until you actually post some proof......

What false hoods?

It's a waste of time to even try and have any type of discussion with you.

You obsessed with a single stupid campaign sound bite about "Mexico will pay for the wall". That's been answered 15 times in this thread and all across the internet and media.

Obama started the recession? Uh, how do you not realize that? I'm sure you also think FDR is what saved us from the Great Depression... and is not what prolonged it.

Try Google - first result.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterfe...rst-president/

Remember, a mortgage crisis, a stock market crash, an automaker going bankrupt, those are not "recessions". Those are events, and how you respond to them determine if you are in a recession or depression.

As for DNC being charged... that's like saying "Hitler did nothing wrong, he was never convicted of the holocaust!"

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

THE FBI HAS A LIBERAL BIAS!!!!!1111!!!

That's a joke, right? 3 minutes on the google will review endless instances, text messages from agents, and stories about it. You seriously doubt an agency that was created by politics and whose leadership is chosen by politics isn't political? Have you ever fucking heard of J. Edgar Hoover?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...umn/704815002/

Maybe you need motion pictures and sounds -

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

lolwat!?!? These supplements Alex Jones is hawking are poisoning these guys' brains.

I've never watched InfoWars or Alex Jones, but I will say this. The man is known for the "Chemicals in the Water that turn the Frogs Gay" meme. Except...



Ever hear of Flint Michigan? The Democrat controlled suburb of Detroit? You know, the guys that didn't want to pay for Detroit Metro water system, so they reopened the ancient lead lined pipes laid in the early 1900's and started sending contaminated water to their impoverished minority community. The city government, EPA and other health agencies all then lied about the water all the while it LITERALLY WAS MAKING PEOPLE RETARDED AND KILLING THEM.



Flint isn't even remotely an isolated incident

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/09/u...ationwide.html (OMFG NYT!?!)
.
Alex also howled about the liberal bias in the media and tech industry and how they are trying to censor people... only then to be fucking BANNED from all forms of social media held by a half dozen different companies...

Ya, real out there conspiracy theory.

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

I'm glad you can acknowledge that the supreme court has been tainted into a partisan mockery.

When have I said otherwise? Making ASSumptions? I think the entire court system is insane, biased and legislating law from the bench which goes far beyond their mandate.

Once again, so you have some pictures and sounds to help you pay attention -



Mind you, I'm not posting his videos because that's how I get my opinions or information, but because of bias confirmation - I already agree with what he is saying and he says it in a comical way that will hopefully hold yours and others attention.

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

I just want to know why Obama tanked the stock market during Trump's second year in office. And forced him to do those protectionist tariffs, I thought Trump was a capitalist.

I've honestly not followed the specific reasons for the recent stock tanks, however, it is recovering and the economy remains strong. This goes back to my other point - a bank collapsing, Auto Manufacturer going bankrupt, a tumble in stock prices - these are not "Recessions", these are economic events. I don't see Trump saying he needs to issue $850 Billion of debt to "stimulate the economy" by giving all sorts of big government, not profit driving organizations money.

As for tariffs, unfortunately what recourse do you have when dealing with competitors that manipulate currency, prop up industry, keep their labor forces in a state of perpetual slavery, use their intelligence agencies to collaborate with private industry to steal IP... so forth.

Once again - cool video for you.

[gbaby2089]

nopenopenope

[SimpleS14]

Originally Posted by Corbic

This goes back to my other point - a bank collapsing, a automatic going bankrupt, a tumble in stock prices - these are not "Recessions", these are economic events.

A recession is typically driven by economic events, but the impact is usually not as significant as what happened during "The Great Recession". That recession was the residual effects of economic events you mentioned along with others (i.e. subprime mortgage crisis) that predate the first Obama inauguration in 2009.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

My goodness you have meme brain. I'm so sorry, I didn't know.

What, not going to cry about how Mexico isn't going to pay for the wall?

And you want "meme brain", try this -

"typical liberal, I present an argument and instead of addressing, you just deflect and change the subject"

You've done this multiple times now.

Hell, were even in agreement about thr court system but you still refuse to agree...



Maybe you need the water tested in California... Why else would Google silence AJ?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by SimpleS14

A recession is typically driven by economic events, but the impact is usually not as significant as what happened during "The Great Recession". That recession was the residual effects of economic events you mentioned along with others (i.e. subprime mortgage crisis) that predate the first Obama inauguration in 2009.

It's also maintained by economic policies of a Government. Much of the causes of thr 2008elt down are directly linked to actual Federal Government policies and actions prior too. The Obama administration then ensures that what should have been a 2 year correction became 6-8 years of misery.

There was a significant mortgage/housing bumble around 1990, but that quickly recovered and everyone made money for damn year 20 years.

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[Corbic]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47066311

US Customs and Border Patrol (CBP) has announced their largest ever seizure of the synthetic opioid drug fentanyl.

Agents on Saturday found 254 lbs (114kg) of fentanyl, as well as 395 lbs of methamphetamine in a lorry at an official US-Mexico border crossing

[RalliartRsX]

Corbic, do you know what a Point of Entry is?

Because if you do, you would realize your article in no way or shape is an argument for a wall, but proper border security......something trump has vetoed or voted against in the past....

ALSO, GOP VOTED AGAINST THE WALL TWICE IN JUST AS MANY MONTHS

MEXICO PAY FOR THE WALL YET??

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

Fair statement. However, if you read a little further, Mexico gets alot of their supply from China and weight isn't necessarily the only issue to focus on

However, that negates the point I am trying to bring across; they are not smuggling across open, sprawling parts of the SWB through "illegal" entry. That has been the entire argument for a wall; to protect these supposed "illegal" smuggling zones that are currently not patrolled or "protected". Actually, there are really no stats to support such an argument come to think of it. That is contrary to what the DEA report surmises and has made mention to on multiple occasions throughout the report. They are smuggling through LEGAL Points of Entry. That has been the argument since day one.

Not saying it doesn't happen through parts of border not patrolled.

You did say this earlier which is where the confusion stemmed from:

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

Questions; what is the number one method for drugs entering the country and people entering "illegally"?? Hint; its NOT through the southern border.

And parts of your response are contradictory..are they smuggling across open, unpatrolled parts of the border or are they not? lol


I'll tell you now that they are. There's been footage and photos of it. It might not be as much as how much gets seized at the checkpoints, but the problem is we really just don't know how much gets across because there are miles of open border without checkpoints.


...and this all just focuses on one issue our open SWB. There's also the smuggling of undocumented people, which is perhaps even the bigger issue here. There were already confirmed cases of people on the terrorist watch list entering the US illegally through the SWB.


Can we all agree that there is a problem with the SWB in terms of illegal immigration and drug smuggling and where we differ is the method to remedy this?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

Corbic, do you know what a Point of Entry is?

Yup. So this goes a giant your statement earlier that all the drugs are coming in by plane or ship and from direct route via China.

Also, the only reason this was caught in the first place was because it went through a secure boarder point - not an unsecured open track of desert.

So just imagine all the stuff we are not catching.

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

Because if you do, you would realize your article in no way or shape is an argument for a wall, but proper border security......something trump has vetoed or voted against in the past....

ALSO, GOP VOTED AGAINST THE WALL TWICE IN JUST AS MANY MONTHS

MEXICO PAY FOR THE WALL YET??

1 - it's the BBC
2 - since when did I care or support what the heard of RINOs are doing?
A - are you trying to tell me that whether or not a politician supports something is a valid argument?

3 - still don't care about Mexico paying for shit. Never once did I care. I'd support a $10/wk tax on eveery person in this country to build the damn wall and deport every illegal alien.

The wall will literally pay for itself based on even the most conservative estimates.

The Democrats and Liberals only apose it because they want uneducated socialist voters and to maintain a lower economic class of unskilled under paid employees. PERIOD.

[spooled240]

The funny part is that the people that are saying illegal trafficking is NOT happening through unprotected parts of the border are also saying that people have climbed over/drove through/tunneled under the existing border walls so a wall would be ineffective. So which one is it? Are people coming through the SWB other than the points of entry or are they not? Do we not need a wall because it's unnecessary or ineffective?


Not through a point of entry:



Not through a point of entry: (and look, a wall)



Not through a point of entry: (another wall)



Waiting for people to switch this back to a "walls don't work because people can climb over them" argument.

[VNG704]

Originally Posted by spooled240

The funny part is that the people that are saying illegal trafficking is NOT happening through unprotected parts of the border are also saying that people have climbed over/drove through/tunneled under the existing border walls so a wall would be ineffective. So which one is it? Are people coming through the SWB other than the points of entry or are they not? Do we not need a wall because it's unnecessary or ineffective?


Not through a point of entry:



Not through a point of entry: (and look, a wall)



Not through a point of entry: (another wall)



Waiting for people to switch this back to a "walls don't work because people can climb over them" argument.

What are you even on about? Who said trafficking isn't happening on the border? Never heard that said. Are you saying a wall is effective because you're posting pics that it isn't. Not sure of your point.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by VNG704

What are you even on about? Who said trafficking isn't happening on the border? Never heard that said. Are you saying a wall is effective because you're posting pics that it isn't. Not sure of your point.

Pretty sure gabby and ralli both stated multiple times that drug traffic in across open boarders was insignificant.

All you anti wall folk.... If I had a magic wand that one shake would mean all the illegal aliens would get deported and no more could come in.... Would you support that?

[RalliartRsX]

Ok, so I am going to ask this question one last time, as both Spool and Corbic have decided that completely ignore the question

What is the difference between Border Security and the Wall??

Now let me explain why I have asked this question tirelessly

Building a wall, is just that; a wall. True border security is a much more complex issue that simply deterrence. Deterrence will address 5% of the issue in regards to border security and here are the main reasons why

- The wall needs to be maintained. Simply building a wall with no proper maintenance plan or protocol in place, means the wall, physically will deteriorate in short order. trump's wall plan has no such provision
- Actual border patrol in areas where the wall is built. As Corbic and spool so kindely pointed out, walls can easily be breached. What is the use of a wall, if folks can either scale, tunnel underneath or just walk right through due using the incorrect material (as I have demonstrated above) for the environment in which the wall will be built??
- Technology plan. trump has no idea what the wall will be built out of. No idea on structural engineering. No plan on environmental impacts
- Environmental roadblocks. You literally cannot build a wall across a river (which MUCH of the SWB is permeated by) without an immense amount of engineering involved

That is only a fraction of the issues that will crop up and issues which fall under BORDER SECURITY which trump himself has jettisoned time and time again.

The wall plan essentially has a single line which states "Build a wall" With no engineering considerations in mind.........and this is very evident by the hollow wall steel with whatever material inside being sawed right through.

And again, I will ask, (specificallly Spool and Corbic) , WHATS IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BORDER SECURITY AND THE WALL?? If one really cared about border security, then last I checked, it was funded by some 20 billion as that is a separate budget item and was already approved by Congress (and has been for the past 20 years in varying amounts) THAT TRUMP VETOED!! If Spool or Corbic truely cared about border security, they would be touting proper facets to include in the BORDER SECURITY BUDGET.

And I am going to continuoulys harp on the fact that THE GOP VOTED AGAINST A BORDER WALL TWICE IN AS MANY MONTHS!


Also, I would like to point out, Bush signed the Fence Act in 2006, which the Obama Admin took up and ultimately failed as building a wall wasnt that simple..........but FFaux News won't report on such facts

Nearly 700 Miles of Fencing at the US-Mexico Border Already Exist

But some 700 miles of border fencing had already been completed along the country's nearly 2,000-mile border with Mexico, much of it during Barack Obama's presidency, as part of the Secure Fence Act of 2006, which was signed by George W. Bush.

Building a new 1,000-mile wall could cost as much as $40 billion, according to an analysis published in the MIT Technology Review. Maintenance of barriers along the southern border will also be costly. The Congressional Research Service estimated in 2009 that double layer fencing would cost an estimated $16.4 million to $70 million per mile over 25 years, depending on the amount of damage sustained.

[RalliartRsX]

Either way, I am done on the wall discussion. I have dropped many supporting documents, cited proper sources and substantiated my stance. Even to the point of reading through an unclassified DEA document which really lay out the true facts of drugs smuggled into the country. All supporters of the wall have done is literally nit pick basic and very few elements and provided opinions and random pictures.

While every is sitting here arguing about a literally useless wall, Russia just withdrew from the Nuclear treaty

THAT is what people should be up in arms about. Or the seperation of children at the border the trump admin partakes in. Or the ridiculous tax cuts for the rich......which has driven up the deficit the at the highest rate in the last several decades.......NO passing a budget while holding the presidency, and both the house and the senate and led us to the longest shutdown in history...........and with no WALL budget. The list is endless........

Russia and NK have slowly been building up their Nuclear arsenal while the trump admin have basically handed them the keys to the castle.

Unreal........