LuckyX2's S13 SR Build

[LuckyX2]

Perhaps he was tuning with injector timing which would be more complicatd because he would need to make a MAP compensation table. With VE, it's no more complicated than tuning with MAP because you're doing the same exact thing. The TPS table might take a little longer to make though because RPM has a greater effect on VE with TPS than with MAP. VE is pretty much linear with MAP but the relationship between TPS and VE is less clear.

Here's a pretty standard VE table using MAP as the load:

Notice that it's pretty much a linear gradient from left to right since VE primarily changes with MAP, not RPM.

Now here's a TPS map:

Notice now there are two gradients, left to right with throttle position and top to bottom with RPM. This is because the relationship for VE is dependent upon both. We can relate this back to MAP easily.

Think of it this way; VE is nearly linear with MAP, so if we can find a way to relate throttle position to MAP, that relation will then have a linear relation to VE. The problem is that throttle position is not the only thing that determines manifold pressure, RPM does too. At 1000RPM it might only take 10% throttle to reach atmospheric pressure but at 8000RPM, the engine is drawing in much more air and has a much greater potential to make vacuum so more throttle is needed to equalize that vacuum to atmosphere. This is known as "effective WOT" and is why when looking at the TPS table the VE at 40% throttle and 9000RPM is equal to the VE at 6% throttle and 1000RPM. Theoretically, given the load on the engine, these two points will have similar manfold pressure because of VE's direction relationship with pressure. But load is not always the same because the car will be driven in different gears and on different inclines. These load changes will show up as differences in manifold pressure and is the reason why MAP compensation is needed if not tuning with VE which already does MAP compensation automatically.

Furthermore, VE tuning with TPS as the load should theoretically provide a superior tune than with MAP as the load if done properly. The reason is simply because it is accounting for more vaiables, making it a more complete tune. With TPS VE you're including TPS, MAP and RPM but with MAP VE you are missing TPS as part of the equation and relying on the fact that VE is more related to MAP than anything else and dropping off TPS as a variable because its significance is less. It also makes tuning for transient throttle enrichment easier since throttle changes will instantly be recognized as a load increase and enrichment will happen mostly automatically.

I hope that wasn't too complicated for everyone!

[reeskm]

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

I hope that wasn't too complicated for everyone!

Only slightly

[LuckyX2]

Well, some things came up and it looks the the dyno time with the ITBs is going to get pushed back a bit.

I came across a good deal on some Ohlins suspension HERE and worked out a trade for my Konis.

So I took the Konis off, cleaned them and shipped them out.


And this is how my car will sit for a week or two until all my new suspension pieces arrive and the Ohlins get rebuilt.


I have a lot more on the way too: Geomaster 2 knuckles/uprights/offset spacers, Godspeed front and rear lower control arms, aluminum steering bushing and s14 front hubs and bolts to fit the Geomaster knuckles. It's basically going to be a whole new car when it comes down off the jack stands. Better dampers, corrected roll center, corrected bumpsteer, corrected dynamic alignment changes, crisper steering and there's not a single stock bushing left in my suspension now; it's all spherical or poly.

And on top of the suspension overhaul I still have my Nismo GT LSD and ITBs waiting to go on. Lots and lots of work; I can't wait to see how it feels afterwards though.

[e1_griego]

You ditched 8611s for Jdm ohlins?

Why for?

[LuckyX2]

For a few reasons:

-I was advised to take the Ohlins over Konis any day by two guys I know who work for Penske.
-Last season's SMF winner drove my car with the 8611's and an Evo with PCV Ohlins like these and said they were comparable.
-I can get the Ohlins rebuilt very cheap.
-I was given enough cash on top to pay for most of the Geomaster setup.
-The fork mount that the Konis need to retain access to the compression adjustment in the rear does not work with the various roll center corrected rear uprights like the Geomasters.
-If I don't like them, I can make money selling them.

Basically I think Ohlins + Geomasters is better than Koni + some hacked up geometry corrections.

[RalliartRsX]

Who is rebuilding the Ohlins?? I need a line to rebuild my Koni DAs

PM me details and how much they are charging

[LuckyX2]

My Dad rebuilds Ohlins, Sachs and possibly Penske at his motorcycle shop. I'm not sure if he does Koni. And I'm getting it at cost presumably, so I'm not sure what it would cost you. I'll ask though.

[e1_griego]

Alright, well I guess money-wise it makes sense.

Pretty sure s13 ohlins are not the pimpy euro ohlins that everyone loves. They are valved more in line with the other JDM stuff.

PJ is still playing at the pointy end of SM with 8611s -- that seems good enough for me.

[LuckyX2]

It's still the same PCV valve tech, though, isn't it? I could just valve it to whatever specs I want. And I trust that Ohlins wouldn't have licensed out their name for these if it did not meet their specifications; they have a high reputation to uphold.

And I have no doubt in the capability of the 8611's. I really liked the car with them and if the Geomasters were available in a fork mount, I probably would have kept them.

Worst case scenario, I don't like the Ohlins and my car is slightly behind for a season but still better overall with the inclusion of the Geomasters. Penskes after that?
I'm minutes away from their main office in Reading, PA and tempted daily... Only a matter of time before I cave in and punish my wallet.

[Conrad 2NR]

I'll hopefully have the same coilovers on next weekend, did you find any advice on a setting to start them off with?

I hate the fact the ride height must be adjusted with the spring collars.

[LuckyX2]

Originally Posted by Conrad 2NR

I'll hopefully have the same coilovers on next weekend, did you find any advice on a setting to start them off with?

I hate the fact the ride height must be adjusted with the spring collars.

Nope. I'm just going to start full stiff and work my way down until I find where I like it. And yeah, much nice to have preload independent height adjustment but it's not all that bad. Especially on these with the helper springs, they'll get preloaded first and the main spring won't be affected too much by it.

Some other suspension goodies came in by the way.

Godspeed lower control arms:


and Geomasters:




Also should be getting a Cobra Suzuka Pro seat in soon. It's this one:


$200 cheaper than the Cobra branded Suzuka; I just have to put up with that Track Culture logo... I like the blue stitching tho!

[LuckyX2]

And the progress continues...

Control arms are painted and ready to go on.


Ohlins showed up and I will be rebuilding them this week hopefully.


I also ordered a set of 245/40/17 BF Goodrich Rivals since I was tired of my fatass 45 sidwall tires I have now and the Rivals also look very impressive. They're backordered until the end of May tho, so it's going to be a while until I get them. Same deal with the Cobra seat.

I also got to play with a sweet Penske setup the other day.


It not only has the traditional oil piston inside but also a mass that spins as the shaft compresses. In instances where the shaft is accelerating very quickly, the mass up top can provide a considerable inertial load to resist it. Think of it almost like a high-high speed compression adjustment except it works off of acceleration of the shaft, not velocity. Cool tech but waaaay out of the s-chassis league at $10k each...

[andy20det]

i also started the itb projet ! got the same itb setup as you... wich injector are you goig to use ??

heres mine

[LuckyX2]

I love that carbon plenum. Do you post on Nissan Road Racing too? I feel like I may have seen your setup before.

And I'm going to keep my ID1000 injectors.

[LuckyX2]

Update:

Basically a lot of delays...

-Ordered S14 front hubs for the Geomasters and they sent me S13's so I have to return them.
-RLCA's are for an S14 and do not fit my S13 (I think they forgot to include adapter spacers). Currently in contact with the seller.
-Nismo LSD is 31 spline unlike my current 5x1 29 spline axles. So I have to get a driver's side Q45 axle and a driver's side Z32 TT axle. I have the Q45 axle already and I'm going to try my luck with a set from a G35. The G35's/350z's are 6x1 pattern and 31 spline just like the Q45's but I am unsure on length and if they are 29 or 31 spline at the wheel end. Ordered some 31 spline Z32 TT hubs anyway, just in case. Will try and post my cumulative findings on diff/axle/hub combos when I'm done.
-Rebuilding the Ohlins has become a pain in the ass. One day, I can get parts, the next they won't ship them, claiming they only ship to certified rebuilders.
-ITBs are still sitting, waiting at my fab guy's house. Should be getting them back soon.
-Rivals were delayed and delayed again so I just canceled the order rather than having a $750 charge pending on my account for two months, I figured I'll use that money now and reorder when they're finally in stock.

That's all for now I guess. Lots of obstacles and I'm getting tired of blowing through paychecks on unexpected things; I just want to race already...

On a positive note!
I've ordered myself a brand new complete 180sx Kouki front, bash bar and N1 vents and I'm about to pull the trigger on some Chuki skirts and a GT-1 rear bumper. Picked up some ZG flares too but basically just because it's the cheapest way to get extra fender room. Not sure how the flares will look so I might go with replacement/over fenders later and sell the ZG's. We'll see when I get it... Planning on wrapping it all up in 3M matte metallic blue or maybe going a little exotic and doing brushed aluminum. I want it to be eye-catching and unusual but not over the top to the point that it's gaudy.

[e1_griego]

I hope you are not going to run any of the bearings or hardware that came with those godspeed arms. They're really really shitty.

[LuckyX2]

I was going to just throw them on as is temporarily since I'm in a bit of a rush but now that I have the down time, I should probably replace them.

They all seem to be in good tolerance tho, not loose and not seized.

[e1_griego]

My friend snapped one of the pins in his tightening down the castle nut.

Honestly, they all scare me, but if you trust it then go for it.


Is the rear outboard bearing a com bearing + snap ring in that tilted housing? From the pics I've seen it seems like yes, but I want to confirm before I buy a set and start messing with rear roll center correction stuffs.

[LuckyX2]

Here's a picture for you:

So yeah, it's a com + snap ring in there.

If someone could direct me to the part number of the angled rod end that I need, that would be great.
Or I'll probably replace the pin with a grade 8 bolt and keep the rod end since it looks like that won't be breaking any time soon.

I'll just replace the pins with bolts of the same size instead of pressing out the bearings, drilling and pressing in new bearings like here:
http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=1407

Def himself said 3/4" was overkill so I should be fine keeping the stock bearings and only doing a slightly smaller grade 8 bolt.

[e1_griego]

Awesome, thank you.

Are the other bearings on the subframe side just com bearings too?

[LuckyX2]

Yep, same bearings on the inner half.

So does anyone know what I need to do to install the rear lower control arms?
They claimed they fit on both S13 and S14 even though they have different pickup points but it's not fitting on my S13. I figured there would be two sets of spacers, one for S13 and one for S14 but there was only one set. When I asked the seller, he claims there aren't any extra spacers and that it should work on both. He even said out of all he's sold, I'm the first to say they didn't fit.

What am I missing here?

[e1_griego]

What doesn't fit?

s13 should have narrrower joints vs s14 anyway, so it should bolt right in.

[LuckyX2]

The inner half of the RLCAs does not fit. They simply will not line up with the mounts on the subframe.
I'll try and get a picture tonight.

[jp69]

Fuck gsp shit

[ZX88]

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

The inner half of the RLCAs does not fit. They simply will not line up with the mounts on the subframe.
I'll try and get a picture tonight.

my buddy had this problem the rear didnt fit.

[LuckyX2]

Originally Posted by jp69

Fuck gsp shit

Thank you for your insightful post.

Originally Posted by ZX88

my buddy had this problem the rear didnt fit.

Did he ever get them to work?

[LuckyX2]

Figured it's time for an update. Still waiting on the Ohlins parts to come in and trying to get the right driveshafts for the new diff.

As I'm waiting I figured it would be a good time to do some cosmetics!
I picked up a kouki front, chuki skirts, a GT-1 rear bumper and some 30mm front fenders.

Best part is that it's all getting wrapped up in this:


Should be looking great in a week or two and hopefully back up and running not too long after that.

[codyace]

Def's Budget Baller FLCA setup is calling your name! I think i still have some GSP rod ends that I wasn't able to even MOVE with a long screwdriver

[LuckyX2]

Yeah, I'm definitely going to follow Def's guide for the control arms. Probably just going to stick with a stock M18 bolt though instead of sizing up to 3/4" like in his guide. Saves me from having to buy the com bearings, drilling out the arms and then pressing them in. Also, I have to grind down the spacers on the RLCAs to get them to fit.

But that's not what's holding me up, getting parts for my Ohlins and finding a Z32 TT driver's side axle is. Other than that, I have everything to get back on the road. It's really getting annoying having a few things holding up progress...

[LuckyX2]

Time for an update since I'm finally getting this thing together...

I dynoed the Ohlins and found the rears were fine. Since I only have to rebuild the fronts now, I finally caved in and sent them out to Ohlins instead of trying to source parts myself and save some money. They should be back in a week or two and then I'll have everything ready to go on the fronts.

As for the rears, I got the passenger's side installed:


Came together without much hassle using a Q45 driver's side axle and stub shaft along with some Z32 TT hubs. Only issue (aside from the shitty GSP RLCAs that I didn't use) was that my brake caliper does not line up correctly now. Looks like I can fix it with a shorter bolt and some washer shimming but I should not have to do that on a high dollar product like Geomasters. And I'm still waiting on an axle for the driver's side before I can start fitting that. Found a guy with an R32 who has some axles he'll be bringing by. Hopefully one of those will work.

Here's my results on axles for the 31 spline Nismo GT LSD:

-The standard driver's side Z32 TT axle on the driver's side and driver's side Q45 axle on the passenger's side is a known good combo but Z32 axles are near impossible to find anymore. This needs Z32 TT hubs.

-You can use two Q45 axles if you have the driver's side shortened. However, to do this you will need two driver's side Q45 stub shafts since the Nismo LSD takes two short 6x1 stubs while the Q45 only has a short stub on the driver's side. The passenger side stub is longer on the Q45's just like on a 5x1 stub. This also needs Z32 TT hubs.

-350z/G35 axles (driver on driver and passenger on passenger) should work (lengths are close) with two driver's side stub shafts from a Q45. The stub shafts on a 350z are both short 6x1 31 spline but the taper at the end is different rendering them unusable. Luckily you can swap with the Q45 stubs. An important note is that you will need the bolts and nuts for the 350z axles since they use a bolt and a nut where as the axles on a Q45 just use a bolt that threads into the axle. The axles on the 350z are not threaded. One convenient thing about this route is that the outer hub splines are 29's so you can use them with regular 4 or 5 lug hubs and not just the Z32 TT's. To my knowledge, this is new info and should be very useful since 350z's and G35's are the most common in junkyards out of all these and are new enough that replacements are still being made.

-R32 axles should work (driver on driver and passenger on passenger) with the only modification being that the passenger's side stub would need to be replaced by a driver's side R32/Q45/Z32 TT stub that is 6x1, short and the correct taper. I'm assuming the passenger side stub is longer just like on Z32 TT's and Q45's but have yet to confirm this. Also assuming the lengths are correct since S13/R32 subframes are so similar. I will confirm this when I have the R32 axles in hand. This will need the Z32 TT hubs and is also harder to source parts for so I doubt it will be a popular option.

That's all for now!