The Future Automotive Thread

[Dutchmalmiss]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

So back to the topic at hand. I have yet to see a sporty coupe that's 2500 lbs or less, makes somewhere in the 250 to 300 horsepower range, and costs around 35 grand or less.

2500 lb car with 300hp calcs out to an 8.33 p/w ratio.

That slots between a '14 AMG C63 and '14 Mustang GT according to the below link
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/02/b...atios-feature/

Has there actually ever been a car that satisfies that? Now I'm curious.

To start, the S15 Spec-R topped out at 1270kg (~2800lbs) and 250hp. (source http://www.goo-net-exchange.com/catalog/NISSAN__SILVIA/)
11.2 p/w ratio for about $22k in 2002 ($29k in today's money)

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by kashira kureijii

I was gonna say they were fuel injected because that's what I thought he meant , didn't want to sound like dumbass haha.

Also was talking about the sw20, not the Mr-s . I don't really like to think of the mr-s as an mr2. Because it's gross

Yeah, my bad on that. I may or may not have been a little drunk when I typed it. I'd actually like to own either an NSX or a second gen MR2 at some point but it would still be nice if you could get something similar that's a little newer. Heck, Imagine if the 370Z found a way to lose about 500 lbs.

[exitspeed]

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/03/25/n...r-dead-report/

Well not new news certainly but it's another confirmation that Nissan isn't going to play ball.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

I actually thought it was Fuel Injected.

EFI and MFI guys.

Electronic Fuel Injection
Mechanical Fuel Injection


FI does mean Forced Induction with references Turbos and Superchargers.

The MRS is slow, but it was still faster then its equivalent Miata. A 3SGTE also drops right in.

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/03/25/n...r-dead-report/

Well not new news certainly but it's another confirmation that Nissan isn't going to play ball.

Good lord, no firm date for the future Z, and "we'd like to do X and Y" with it, implies that they haven't even started working on it. The fact that they've essentially been selling the same car for a decade and a half now and apparently there's no new model in sight, might have something to do with the dismal 370Z sales.

[kashira kureijii]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

Yeah, my bad on that. I may or may not have been a little drunk when I typed it. I'd actually like to own either an NSX or a second gen MR2 at some point but it would still be nice if you could get something similar that's a little newer. Heck, Imagine if the 370Z found a way to lose about 500 lbs.

Get a second gen mr2 , much better and cheaper than an NSX. NSX"s have this Arton senna bullshit fanboy tax, and were/are expensive . NSX"s are much heavier than mr2"s and aren't much better in the power dept. you can build a kickass sw20 with more power and less weight, and better handling, and it would still cost probably 15,000 less than a stock NSX.

Also that Nissan article makes me sad. There was also an article on autoblog earlier this week on how Ghosn thinks electric cars are the future, sigh

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by kashira kureijii

Also that Nissan article makes me sad. There was also an article on autoblog earlier this week on how Ghosn thinks electric cars are the future, sigh

I almost posted that. It's very telling.

[dorkidori_s13]

the 180sx was made for 11 years... funny how it sold consistently and without waver in that time period; yet for some reason, nissan cant seem to recognize that!

the 370z is boring, fat and just too goddamn expensive for how little you get! the GTR, lets face it... 90% of us will never own one (at least, one of the 2008+ models since we all know a JDM GTR IS what we really want). the fact that nissan ignores the S-Chassis altogether (nevermind it was produced for over 40 years) is just sad!

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

the 180sx was made for 11 years... funny how it sold consistently and without waver in that time period; yet for some reason, nissan cant seem to recognize that!

Except no.

The 240sx sold like crazy from 89-91, then it dropped off dramatically for the DE cars. Sales absolutely crashed for the S14 with the Kouki being a complete dud.


In Japan the 180sx remained strong for the same reason as.... The Fox Body Mustang in America *gasp*.

It was the last, ultra cheap, easy to work on RWD performance platform they had.

The Fox sold from 1979-1993, 14 years. It's chassis carried on into 2004. 25 years. Sounds just like the S13-S15 saga.

The 370Z is a turd. Period. It launched to lame sales that everyone blames on the 2008 Recession. Problem is all the competitors have recovered and are doing very well.

I really think a major overlap exists for buyers in this segment. The 350Z was popular not because "ZOMG Imports!", It was "ZOMG Bros!".

Young Douche Bros buy these entry level sports cars. They don't care about Ford, Nissan or Chebby. They don't care about V6, DOHC, OHV or whatever. They just want a sick badass whip to throw some subs in and get that pussy with.


I made that statement about MY350Z years ago (and got pinked). The original Z buyers where all douche-canoes who's only mods consisted of shitty Chris Foose wheels, subs, and Pepboy add ons.


In 2003 the Camaro was dead. The Mustang was long in its teeth and made 260hp. The Z launched for a few grand more and had 287hp, a nicer interior, modern styling and modern suspension.

The Z was able to meet the Mustangs power rise in 2005 (300hp Rev Up) and the hard retro styling likely turned off some Douche-Bros.

But then the 2010 cars got more fluid modern styling. Camaros and Challengers dropped, WRXs took a more mainstream look and everyone went apeshit in the power department.

[kingkilburn]

How did Ghosn keep his job after the Datsun Go shit show? I really don't understand it. Nissan has dropped the ball on literally every model and segment in the last decade while Renault is as meh as it's ever been.

[Frank_Jaeger]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Except no.

Read what he said again. You seemed to almost grasp it but you missed the mark.

They didn't produce the S13 and the S14 simultaneously for no reason.

[Matej]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

I actually thought it was Fuel Injected.

No, it means that each cylinder has its own individual fuel injector, as opposed to only some cylinders being injected.

Golly.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Frank_Jaeger

They didn't produce the S13 and the S14 simultaneously for no reason.

In Japan only. Japan doesn't count. They sell more GT86s there then they do here. There are 90 million Japanese to the 320 million Americans.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Corbic

In Japan only. Japan doesn't count. They sell more GT86s there then they do here. There are 90 million Japanese to the 320 million Americans.

It counts because it gives a manufacturer a reason to keep it around. We talk about dismal sales of the 86 here but it sells well there. Well the X Box 360 and One sell like crazy here but sold like 1000* consoles ever in Japan. Doesn't make it a failure.

An article on Autoblog reiterates what I've said over and over, that sales don't ultimately = success to every manufacturer out there (just Nissan apparently). The Chevy SS is an amazing car it sells poorly, but it sells what they expect it to and so it's worth having for what the car represents and the box it checks in their line up. Not every car needs to sell 60k units a year to be labeled a success. Sometimes you build cars for people that actually WANT cars so you can sell cars to people that only see them as appliances.

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/03/25/c...future-report/



*sarcasm. I don't feel like looking up the actual number but it's less than the Wii U sooooo.

[Frank_Jaeger]

Originally Posted by Corbic

In Japan only. Japan doesn't count. They sell more GT86s there then they do here. There are 90 million Japanese to the 320 million Americans.

I thought Nissan was a Japanese automaker. It seems it would count more, no?

That's a rhetorical question, please don't answer it.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Frank_Jaeger

I thought Nissan was a Japanese automaker. It seems it would count more, no?

That's a rhetorical question, please don't answer it.

The short answer to that is Nissan sells more cars here, so here should be more weight. It doesn't excuse the lack of balls though. Even if you make a car that is more popular in one region to the next it's a total. Nissan Japan sales could totally bolster sales of a car like the IDX or a Silvia. They CHOOSE not to do it.

[Matej]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

the 180sx was made for 11 years... funny how it sold consistently and without waver in that time period; yet for some reason, nissan cant seem to recognize that!

They should have kept selling it in Latin America and the Middle East where God does not care about modern safety features.

You can go to Mexico and buy a 2016 B13 Sentra. Innovation that excites.

[future]

In Mexico you were able to buy brand new bugs up to 2010 I think


And can still get a 99 body jetta

[JoshuaLogan]

Originally Posted by kashira kureijii

Get a second gen mr2 , much better and cheaper than an NSX. NSX"s have this Arton senna bullshit fanboy tax, and were/are expensive . NSX"s are much heavier than mr2"s and aren't much better in the power dept. you can build a kickass sw20 with more power and less weight, and better handling, and it would still cost probably 15,000 less than a stock NSX.

Also that Nissan article makes me sad. There was also an article on autoblog earlier this week on how Ghosn thinks electric cars are the future, sigh

lolwut?

First, although the MR-S/final-gen MR2 is not as attractive, it's significantly lighter and better handling than the previous gen MR2 that everyone thinks they love (based on looks).

Second, the NSX is a way, way better car in every way. Its handling and all-around potential with mods are on another level vs the MR2s. Despite both cars being MR platforms, they aren't even remotely in the same league.

As for Nissan, they're not the same company anymore. IDx project killed off, no Silvia revival, seemingly no progress on a supposed smaller/lighter Z... I don't have high hopes at this point.

[kashira kureijii]

Originally Posted by JoshuaLogan

lolwut?

First, although the MR-S/final-gen MR2 is not as attractive, it's significantly lighter and better handling than the previous gen MR2 that everyone thinks they love (based on looks).

Second, the NSX is a way, way better car in every way. Its handling and all-around potential with mods are on another level vs the MR2s. Despite both cars being MR platforms, they aren't even remotely in the same league.

That's not really accurate florida cuz

In 1991 when these cars first came out, the nsx was priced at $62,000 weighed 3100ibs and did a 5.7 sec 0-60. The mr2 turbo of the same year was priced at $25,000 weighed 2700ibs and did a 6.3 sec 0-60.

They aren't in the same league because no sw20 owner at the time was dumb enough to pay 37k more for .5 seconds. I dunno what you are talking about either with "mod-ability" the 3sgte was and is a much more easily modable engine because it was put in a bunch of other toyota cars, while the nsx engine to my knowledge, was only placed in an nsx. This makes parts availability much better for sw20's than it does for an NSX.

Even later in the 90's when NSX was updated for less weight and more power, the sw20 got the 3rd gen 3sgte which made the data differences above basically the same.

It only takes probably 5 or 6 k for an mr2 to make more power, "handle better" , and basically be better overall than an NSX which cost 37k dollars more (or like 32k more if you count what it would take to make them equal) the 3sgte is like toyota's sr20, you coudn't really match it for mod-ability with the one-off f1 inspired engine of the NSX.

Don't know why I'm arguing with someone from florida though, a little research and lack of fanboy opinions would have made you change your mind without me needing to explain.

Also no one said the sw20 handled better than the MR-S, I just said the MR-S is slow and ugly as Fuck

[dorkidori_s13]

not to throw fuel on the fire and all...

id take an NSX over an MR2 ANY day! MR2 is like a boy racer car... NSX is the "get you laid" and still mod the fuck out of it car.

just saying.

[kashira kureijii]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

not to throw fuel on the fire and all...

id take an NSX over an MR2 ANY day! MR2 is like a boy racer car... NSX is the "get you laid" and still mod the fuck out of it car.

just saying.

NSX isn't an inherently better car was the point, I can't really attest to the get u laid part of it haha. Mr2"s are just to cute to get u laid maybe? NSX"s look more rich guy exotic, that's probably what it is

[JoshuaLogan]

Originally Posted by kashira kureijii

That's not really accurate florida cuz

In 1991 when these cars first came out, the nsx was priced at $62,000 weighed 3100ibs and did a 5.7 sec 0-60. The mr2 turbo of the same year was priced at $25,000 weighed 2700ibs and did a 6.3 sec 0-60.

They aren't in the same league because no sw20 owner at the time was dumb enough to pay 37k more for .5 seconds. I dunno what you are talking about either with "mod-ability" the 3sgte was and is a much more easily modable engine because it was put in a bunch of other toyota cars, while the nsx engine to my knowledge, was only placed in an nsx. This makes parts availability much better for sw20's than it does for an NSX.

Even later in the 90's when NSX was updated for less weight and more power, the sw20 got the 3rd gen 3sgte which made the data differences above basically the same.

It only takes probably 5 or 6 k for an mr2 to make more power, "handle better" , and basically be better overall than an NSX which cost 37k dollars more (or like 32k more if you count what it would take to make them equal) the 3sgte is like toyota's sr20, you coudn't really match it for mod-ability with the one-off f1 inspired engine of the NSX.

Don't know why I'm arguing with someone from florida though, a little research and lack of fanboy opinions would have made you change your mind without me needing to explain.

Also no one said the sw20 handled better than the MR-S, I just said the MR-S is slow and ugly as Fuck

lol a little research? Please. MR2s are cool cars, but come on. 0-60 times? Stock NSXs were never about straight line speed. There are tons of other less expensive cars out there that out performed it there (RX7, Evo, etc.)... It's still in a different league as a car. Far better engine. Far better handling. Far more refined.

[JoshuaLogan]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

not to throw fuel on the fire and all...

id take an NSX over an MR2 ANY day! MR2 is like a boy racer car... NSX is the "get you laid" and still mod the fuck out of it car.

just saying.

Uh, yeah, it is inherently a better car. The suspension design is on another level altogether. The engine can make much more power with FI, and the transmission can handle much torque. Look at cars like the FXMD time attack NSX. That thing is fast as hell and literally still uses a factory 5 speed transmission. Sure, the car is modified all to hell, but look at what it's capable of with stock suspension geometry and a factory transmission. The handling is just on another level.

There's WAY more to a car than 0-60 times. If that's what you care about, why are you even talking about MR2s? There are way faster stock cars out there, including terrible handling old school muscle cars.

[Yardjass]

I'd like to own an NSX or an R8 someday for the same reason. They're not the fastest or fanciest thing around and there are cheaper cars that can outperform them. However, they're both decent performers themselves, they're gorgeous, and they're just in general, bad fucking ass. Not everything is about performance stats from a sheet or how much power you can make. If the model year 2045 civic si outperforms the McLaren F1, I'd still rather have a McLaren F1. Same goes for the MR2 vs an NSX.

[kashira kureijii]

Originally Posted by JoshuaLogan

Uh, yeah, it is inherently a better car. The suspension design is on another level altogether. The engine can make much more power with FI, and the transmission can handle much torque. Look at cars like the FXMD time attack NSX. That thing is fast as hell and literally still uses a factory 5 speed transmission. Sure, the car is modified all to hell, but look at what it's capable of with stock suspension geometry and a factory transmission. The handling is just on another level.

There's WAY more to a car than 0-60 times. If that's what you care about, why are you even talking about MR2s? There are way faster stock cars out there, including terrible handling old school muscle cars.

explain, how the geometry is better, as from looking at them, the suspension setups look very similar......

Also as far as power goes, from a quick you tube search, I'm not seeing very many NSX's above 700hp, there are mr2's at that hp level with a 4banger, Other than opinion, from basic performance data, pricing as well as the mr handling, the NSX isn't titanically better than an sw20 relative to cost, parts availability and all the stuff I mentioned.

Just saying "dude them NSX's are so fast and the suspension and handling are so much better" without showing any actual reason as why isn't going to prove anything.

I assume you have owned an MR2 and NSX and can tell us from personal experience? Otherwise show some real evidence or calm the fuck down

[kashira kureijii]

Also just cuz you like one better cuz it looks nicer doesn't make it a better car at all, It just means you are a bunch of damn senna fanboys.

The mr2 existed before the NSX as for Historic value and MR experience goes, Toyota had more experience.

Just cuz a dead racecar driver endorsed your favorite car doesn't make it god's gift to carkind and worth 62k

[Yardjass]

^^^^ This is true. The fact that it was limited production, looks like a Ferrari and performs on par with one, while having the reliability and maintenance costs of a Honda, does. Everyone nutswings on the Supra and Skyline but the NSX was way better. It just wasn't the star of any movies and can't make huge power fairly easily so idiots don't worship it.

[kingkilburn]

The mr2 didn't force the super car market to modernize. This isn't even a debate.

[kingkilburn]

It's not a reason not to own an mr2, just a dumb comparison. Buy the one you like and leave others to do the same.


It's like arguing that Porsche shouldn't make the boxster and 911 at the same time.