This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

[mikerbike]

Originally Posted by Tinaphps

The point is, the tie rods' pick up point will differ from the FLCAs' pick up point if you move just the FLCAs. One will be higher than the other, which will cause different arcs.

Seems like you're confused. If you only extend the control arm, the 30* of toe out is more a problem than any bumpsteer you can dream up.

If you extend the control arm and the tie rod the same amount, bumpsteer should actually be less, since the CA/TR ratio is closer to 1:1.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

He didn't move the tie rod's pick up point though, which is the correct way to extend them.

I think you're thinking TC rod. The tie rod pickup will move outward the same amount as the LBJ.

[huffandpuff00]

LCA's back, sand blasted and hit with satin black.





Installed them tonight, but it was too dark for decent pics. Crazy toe out!

I'm pretty sure my PBM v.1 inners are too short, probably go miker's route and add on some threads to outers.

[PG BOOSTED]

very very explanatory this guy is a suspension doctor!

[Motary]

I was wondering what extending the front lower control arm length by 30mm does at 100mm bump and droop at -3 degrees camber so I did a Susprog calc and here are the changes:

Camber decreasing improves by 0.03 degrees
Anti dive decreases 3.1%

[GKTECH]

We're just finalizing the designs of the different steering arms that we're making for our billet aluminium knuckles but the question that I have is who actually wants zero ackerman? The DW knuckles from our measurements actually have more toe at full lock than the standard position and they're popular.

Talk to us. Tell us what you want, and then we'll make it

Here's a quick simulation that we put together: GKTECH - Using technology to get more angle out of your S chassis | Facebook

[TrustS13]

With 15mm front spacers + S14 LCA mod.
17x9 +12 before.. dunno after, probably -20 something ish.


Video: https://www.facebook.com/v/10151245662273939

[Silvi]

Hi, I need little help to choose new inner and outer tie rods.
I installed today Godspeed spacer which adding 2.2cm traveling to the steering rack,
But the problem came when I tried to recenter the rack.
I reach to maximum of the rod screwing before the wheels are at straight position(OEM rods), So now I have to purchase new and more screwing adjustable/shorter rods.
Which are recommended?

[swiftmini]

Originally Posted by GKTECH

We're just finalizing the designs of the different steering arms that we're making for our billet aluminium knuckles but the question that I have is who actually wants zero ackerman? The DW knuckles from our measurements actually have more toe at full lock than the standard position and they're popular.

Talk to us. Tell us what you want, and then we'll make it

Here's a quick simulation that we put together: GKTECH - Using technology to get more angle out of your S chassis | Facebook

on motoiq it says that dai yoshihara runs a modded knuckle that retains the standard amount of ackerman.

it has been mentioned a few times that some ackerman is good.

i use dw geomaster and iam pretty happy with them. I only use my car on the track and i tend too adjust the toe at the track depending on how it feels

its a bit of a minefield when you factor in the different caster settings, ride heights and steering rack positions, that different people run

Im guessing there are very few people out there who know exactly what they want and alot of peeps will probably adjust alignment to suit.

the best option is probably to get fink and a track and do real testing with different settings and see what he thinks

[swiftmini]

Originally Posted by Silvi

Hi, I need little help to choose new inner and outer tie rods.
I installed today Godspeed spacer which adding 2.2cm traveling to the steering rack,
But the problem came when I tried to recenter the rack.
I reach to maximum of the rod screwing before the wheels are at straight position(OEM rods), So now I have to purchase new and more screwing adjustable/shorter rods.
Which are recommended?

you can trim 10mm off of the end of the tie rod and 10mm off of the rode end, that will allow the tie rod to thread in an extra 10mm.

10mm is an example, you can go a little further if needed

[Lutz Performance]

Originally Posted by swiftmini

on motoiq it says that dai yoshihara runs a modded knuckle that retains the standard amount of ackerman.

it has been mentioned a few times that some ackerman is good.

i use dw geomaster and iam pretty happy with them. I only use my car on the track and i tend too adjust the toe at the track depending on how it feels

its a bit of a minefield when you factor in the different caster settings, ride heights and steering rack positions, that different people run

Im guessing there are very few people out there who know exactly what they want and alot of peeps will probably adjust alignment to suit.

the best option is probably to get fink and a track and do real testing with different settings and see what he thinks

i believe this year he went with Drift Works tho didnt he?

[Silvi]

Originally Posted by swiftmini

you can trim 10mm off of the end of the tie rod and 10mm off of the rode end, that will allow the tie rod to thread in an extra 10mm.

10mm is an example, you can go a little further if needed

Its about 24-28 mm at passanger side,I guess its too much to cut

[GKTECH]

Originally Posted by swiftmini

Im guessing there are very few people out there who know exactly what they want and alot of peeps will probably adjust alignment to suit.

I think that's a great point. It may more that someone once read *having zero ackerman is the best*

Now there are a few people telling me they need zero ackerman.

We'll cater for anything if there's enough interest.

I'll get a test pair of steering arms machined up. Easy enough

[TrustS13]

I'm running 0 Ackerman, it's pretty sweet.

[godrifttoday]

i want whatever zilvia.net tells me i need

[swiftmini]

Originally Posted by Lutz Performance

i believe this year he went with Drift Works tho didnt he?

Yes he was over here driving for driftworks. He took some Geomasters back with him. But at the time Dw said it was for his practice car. So maybe he liked them a lot i have no idea :/

[swiftmini]

Originally Posted by GKTECH

I think that's a great point. It may more that someone once read *having zero ackerman is the best*

Now there are a few people telling me they need zero ackerman.

We'll cater for anything if there's enough interest.

I'll get a test pair of steering arms machined up. Easy enough

Sooo awesome. Will you sort a UK dealer or only ship from aus? Iam want some real bad becausr iam 100% happy with my Geomasters BUT I want the chance to try some other steering geometries without making new knuckles all the time.

Another thing to consider, would be the use they are intended for. I don't compete or battle anyone. I care most about trying crazy entries and sliding backwards. I think I would want different settings if I was trying to follow on someones door

[TheRealSy90]

I know I want 0 ackerman.

[swiftmini]

Geomasters defo have alot of ackerman. Although to run less ackerman id have to reduce my lock on my sR32

[swiftmini]

Sorry wrong pics my steering isnt even attached. Doh! will edit tonight

[[email protected]]

Our kit gives a true 0 ackerman if desired. It has fully adjustable ackerman set-up.

We have just won the Prodrift championship in Ireland with our kit.
In the last round the car equipped with our kit was able to defeat the visiting Need for Speed driver Fredrick Asboo in his new 86 with 2jz and last years FD champion Dia Yoshihara in a Altezza with 2jz also.

Having the correct geometry dose help in drifting and we understand it properly.

We have now released the Type 3 Knuckle which is over 40% lighter.

[swiftmini]

I like how you say "if desired"

Are you willing to share your thoughts on ackerman?

I love playing around with stuff, but without some kind of guidance on what to expect from different settings, i find the level of adjustment daunting.

Ive learnt to use my geomasters and adjust toe ect to get what i want. Iam 100% i would find the gktech to be same story for me because they are very similar regarding steering geometry, rc correction and general fitment of the part. Iam running a custom front crossmember, so I have 80mm rc correction.

Yours have alot more than 45mm correction yes?

All my questions are genuine 'out of interest' questions. I love the product! cant decide if its for me though!

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by swiftmini

I like how you say "if desired"

Are you willing to share your thoughts on ackerman?

I love playing around with stuff, but without some kind of guidance on what to expect from different settings, i find the level of adjustment daunting.

Ive learnt to use my geomasters and adjust toe ect to get what i want. Iam 100% i would find the gktech to be same story for me because they are very similar regarding steering geometry, rc correction and general fitment of the part. Iam running a custom front crossmember, so I have 80mm rc correction.

Yours have alot more than 45mm correction yes?

All my questions are genuine 'out of interest' questions. I love the product! cant decide if its for me though!

Ackerman should be for track cars doing grip racing and not drifting. In drifting the chassis travels opposite to the grip direction while going around a corner. This is why its no use using a set-up like you have posted above as it scrubs speed of all the time and causes the chassis to want to spin as the front tyres fight each other.

Toe should not really be adjusted to increase or decrease Ackerman. It should be set to make the car stable in a straight line for acceleration and braking.

I don't see how you could move the pick-up point for the inner wishbone and tension rod up by 80mm as they would be in the middle of the chassis leg. Did you also move the steering rack up by 80mm ?

Out kits have a huge sweet spot where they will work and produce excellent results. This is because most of the interesting geometry is machined into the knuckles.

If you examine this photo would will see how the car just wants to drift on lock. Look at the 2 wheels and the contact patches on the ground.



Out knuckles have 100+ roll centre correction meaning that we can run without sway bar without massive front springs.

[Lutz Performance]

for my s13 I think i might go with Cor Chuckles 42mm corrections, i forget how much ackerman he said he has in them, not alot but not zero, her said it felt weird with zero. They also have some rad angle parts ( Curved Tension rod, and custom sway bar)


https://vimeo.com/47847866#

Justin also runs them

[swiftmini]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Ackerman should be for track cars doing grip racing and not drifting. In drifting the chassis travels opposite to the grip direction while going around a corner. This is why its no use using a set-up like you have posted above as it scrubs speed of all the time and causes the chassis to want to spin as the front tyres fight each other.

Toe should not really be adjusted to increase or decrease Ackerman. It should be set to make the car stable in a straight line for acceleration and braking.

I don't see how you could move the pick-up point for the inner wishbone and tension rod up by 80mm as they would be in the middle of the chassis leg. Did you also move the steering rack up by 80mm ?

Out kits have a huge sweet spot where they will work and produce excellent results. This is because most of the interesting geometry is machined into the knuckles.

If you examine this photo would will see how the car just wants to drift on lock. Look at the 2 wheels and the contact patches on the ground.



Out knuckles have 100+ roll centre correction meaning that we can run without sway bar without massive front springs.

Sorry i should have been clearer. The entire crossmember is raised 35mm with the rack moved forward 20mm also. Then i have geomasters which add another 45mm. I do realise that some inboard and some out board isnt gonna add up exactly to 80mm, i was just using as an example.

Nothing has been calculated, i just drive it and then adjust a few things for my preference. The rear subframe has had the same treatment also with geomasters.





I know its not as fancy as you guys can produce. I do it for fun and purely so i can keep my car slammed but have relatively good handling on the road and track

I also agree with your comments on ackerman. But iam also on the band wagon that zero is a bit weird. I made my own rc corrected knuckles years ago that were kinda zero ackerman and really shonky. They had different ackerman side for side which was really messed up but still loads of fun

The reason for altering my toe to tune the feel on lock is purely a compromise because i bought secondhand geomasters and i try my best too make best of what i have. I would have to save or sell one of my cars too change anything at the moment, unless i can make it myself lol

The pictures above were to backup what gktech said above. They measured geomasters and figured they had alot of ackerman. BUT they are popular in a few countries. Could just be jumping on the geomaster bandwagon though i guess.

I managed to find a pic of my shonky homebrews lol. i swapped the lower arms side for side so that i had more clearance for lock

[swiftmini]

pic of shonky hubs on the lock


and geomasters on the lock

this pic shows fuck all really

I think a small amount of scrub from the front end is ok. people drifted fine on stock knuckles for years

[[email protected]]

The diver feed back we get from out kit with close to or Zero ackerman is that is't awesome and the feel of what the car is doing is transmitted through the wheel. Also the drivers report that at big lock the control of the car is very sharp and transition can be made very quick.

I understand that the cost is always an issue. We are focused on making the best kit we can. The cost relative to the design and manufacturing time means that until we sell 100+ kits we will be making a loss. We do it for the love of making quality products.


Robbie

[swiftmini]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

The diver feed back we get from out kit with close to or Zero ackerman is that is't awesome and the feel of what the car is doing is transmitted through the wheel. Also the drivers report that at big lock the control of the car is very sharp and transition can be made very quick.

I understand that the cost is always an issue. We are focused on making the best kit we can. The cost relative to the design and manufacturing time means that until we sell 100+ kits we will be making a loss. We do it for the love of making quality products.


Robbie

sorry man it sounds like iam knocking your product and price. im not though

thanks for your input on ackerman, its good to hear others experiences and also amazing to see all these badass products being made by alot of different people.

id be interested to see some video of your kit in action, especially wild entries

[godrifttoday]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

The diver feed back we get from out kit with close to or Zero ackerman is that is't awesome and the feel of what the car is doing is transmitted through the wheel. Also the drivers report that at big lock the control of the car is very sharp and transition can be made very quick.

I understand that the cost is always an issue. We are focused on making the best kit we can. The cost relative to the design and manufacturing time means that until we sell 100+ kits we will be making a loss. We do it for the love of making quality products.


Robbie

how much do your knuckles cost?

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by swiftmini

sorry man it sounds like iam knocking your product and price. im not though

thanks for your input on ackerman, its good to hear others experiences and also amazing to see all these badass products being made by alot of different people.

id be interested to see some video of your kit in action, especially wild entries

I know your not knocking the product. The reason that other kits dont feel that positive at 0 ackerman is that they dont have out unique centering and jacking system.

Originally Posted by godrifttoday

how much do your knuckles cost?

I have a few dealers lined up for LA. Please e-mail [email protected] me and we will get you a quote asap.

[GKTECH]

Originally Posted by swiftmini

Sooo awesome. Will you sort a UK dealer or only ship from aus? Iam want some real bad becausr iam 100% happy with my Geomasters BUT I want the chance to try some other steering geometries without making new knuckles all the time.

Another thing to consider, would be the use they are intended for. I don't compete or battle anyone. I care most about trying crazy entries and sliding backwards. I think I would want different settings if I was trying to follow on someones door

At this stage we'll be shipping direct from Australia however we are looking at the possibility of getting a warehouse in Europe to dispatch from due to the recent increase in orders from the area. I would say if this were to happen it wouldn't be for another 6+ months.