so how about this election

[Antihero983]

honestly, I want someone unqualified in there.

why?

because everyone who has been "qualified" has done jack fucking shit.

[ESmorz]

Originally Posted by RedEvilRPS13

honestly, I want someone unqualified in there.

why?

because everyone who has been "qualified" has done jack fucking shit.

[MaD ViLLaiN]

Well I think for mcaine its become a publicity stunt picking palin to draw in some votes. truth is Palin is definately not ready to be VP, much less take over as president cuz mcaine is like 1000 anyway, and will definately not last his term. We dont want mcaine anyways because it would be exactly more of the same him being a Bush supporter and pretty much wanting to staty the same path, him saying health care is a responsibility, when it should be a damn right! Him and his crew are not what we want in the white house. As for Obama He is not out for publicity so to speak as mcaine, and I dont know much about his history but from what ive seen he has a plan and sticks to the issues But what this election needs to be about is not black not white not female, not making history in the white house. it should only be about whos got a god damn good plan to un-fuck what bush did to this country, we have the lowest employment rate since he took office, we have the highest homeless rate, and now we are heading to a obviouse depression. I served in the army i went to iraq there was no weapons of mass destruction it was about the damn oil! that we cant even take anyways cuz the UN would take a huge shit on us if we even tried. how do i know its about the oil cuz my first several missions over there were to clear occupy and gaurd the oil field/refineries. I feel that obama has shown he has a set plan to lead us out of this crap.

[KA24DESOneThree]

If either candidate says they know the issues, they're lying. There is one single, solitary issue.

Bring America back to its former glory.

That is the only issue we have.

You want to fight for freedom? You're not doing it in Iraq. Hussein's army wasn't about to come over here and censor our papers or search our belongings without our permission. You'll find many enemies of our freedom here. While we're at it, we need to get out of the IMF and tell the UN and NATO to take a hike.

You want your job back? Deregulate the industries and reduce taxes. Stop making it more cost-effective to ship raw materials to other countries so they can do our work for us. Once a country has lost its manufacturing base, everything else begins to crumble. Force the Fed to close and return our money to its true controller. Stop printing so much and stop trying to force band-aids upon the credit market.

You want less taxes? Do without "essential" handouts. Put your hands back in your pockets, or, better yet, on a keyboard, working. Wrap your mitts around a saw or screwdriver or ratchet or wrench; put them at 10 and 2 or on a stethoscope or the Harvard Law Review. Our predecessors didn't have handouts, and they had less technology at their disposal.

Worried about the national debt? John McCain and Barack Obama aren't. They aren't willing to cut back spending by the amount we need. Both of them have neoliberal/neoconservative/socialist views of government's size and scope. Health care is NOT a right. It is up to YOU to take care of YOURSELF. The government was not created to be a nanny for those who cannot care for themselves.

Want to avoid being kept out of your home by machine-gun-equipped troops when a fire or flood comes by? Force them to back the hell off and respect self-reliant people's rights to stay in their home, and let those people keep their firearms to ward off pests.

We need to rein in our representatives and senators and FORCE them to listen to us. We told them what we wanted as far as the bailout bill was concerned (NO!) and they ignored us. No more will our voice go unheard.

Let's face it: the two party system has run its course. On one side we have neoconservative, intolerant people, and on the other side we have neoliberal, intolerant people.

The time for change is now. We cannot continue to operate as the United States of America, a Constitutional Federal Republic, if we ignore the Constitution and have the government's greedy hands in every aspect of our lives.

[MaD ViLLaiN]

Originally Posted by RedEvilRPS13

Simple.

She opens her mouth about shit she has blantantly no idea about constantly, and the whole "oh i'm a hockey mom" thing is FUCKING OLD.

Ok so you got knocked up, popped out a fucking kid, and take them to sporting events. that is supposed ot make me rally behind you?

no.

i fell the same dammn way, there using these types of things maybe to relate the the younger voters maybe, but that dont mean this qualifies you to run the damn counry, your the same as millions of other moms shit even single 2 job working moms that still pull this shit off, instead of playing the hockey mom bs how about you talk about how your gonna help the mom out there that cant enjoy what you get to cuz they working 2 jobs just to survive, while theyre kids have no health care, and are sucked into drugs and or gangs cuz theres not enough support to keep kids off the street, to keep kids interested in school and want an education, how about how your gonna make an education affordable to the common working class person. mcain and palin just horrible, i do support obama, but i dont think either one of the cadidates are worth a damn, but obama is the obviouse best pick!

[MaD ViLLaiN]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

If either candidate says they know the issues, they're lying. There is one single, solitary issue.

Bring America back to its former glory.

That is the only issue we have.

You want to fight for freedom? You're not doing it in Iraq. Hussein's army wasn't about to come over here and censor our papers or search our belongings without our permission. You'll find many enemies of our freedom here. While we're at it, we need to get out of the IMF and tell the UN and NATO to take a hike.

You want your job back? Deregulate the industries and reduce taxes. Stop making it more cost-effective to ship raw materials to other countries so they can do our work for us. Once a country has lost its manufacturing base, everything else begins to crumble. Force the Fed to close and return our money to its true controller. Stop printing so much and stop trying to force band-aids upon the credit market.

You want less taxes? Do without "essential" handouts. Put your hands back in your pockets, or, better yet, on a keyboard, working.

Worried about the national debt? John McCain and Barack Obama aren't. They aren't willing to cut back spending by the amount we need. Both of them have neoliberal/neoconservative/socialist views of government's size and scope. Health care is NOT a right. It is up to YOU to take care of YOURSELF. The government was not created to be a nanny for those who cannot care for themselves.

Want to avoid being kept out of your home by machine-gun-equipped troops when a fire or flood comes by? Force them to back the hell off and respect self-reliant peoples' rights to stay in their home, and let those people keep their firearms to ward off pests.

We need to rein in our representatives and senators and FORCE them to listen to us. We told them what we wanted as far as the bailout bill was concerned (NO!) and they ignored us. No more will our voice go unheard.

Let's face it: the two party system has run its course. On one side we have neoconservative, intolerant people, and on the other side we have neoliberal, intolerant people.

The time for change is now. We cannot continue to operate as the United States of America, a Constitutional Federal Republic, if we ignore the Constitution and have the government's greedy hands in every aspect of our lives.

i agree with you it is our responsibility to take care of ourselves take initiative to go to a clinic hospitol etc... but when such a huge portion of americans are working a min wage job or cant even land a job, when inflation and costs of living are beyond even a middle class persons salary we have a huge problem,cause as it is our governments responsibility to make such necesities available to its citizens yet they are not. I have a HUGE problem not only with this war but we are also spending millions if not billions investing in providing power health aide food water stabilizing theyre economy and government when we have that same problem here!! and that country doesnt even fukin want us there and continue to try to kill us, this isnt worth the damage its caused over here not to mention the thousands of soldiers lives theyve claimed and families affected by that loss. when health care is out of reach for most families cuz the cost is to much and they chose to put food on the table instead and try there best to keep theyre homes, when so many families and multiple families share a 1 bedroom house with like 18 people living in it. in canada health care is free for all its citizens! we here in the usa live in a time where the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor! after the bailout AIG corporation sent several of its big wigs on a 400,000 dollar fukin vacation on our fukin dime! and claimed its a reward for theyre best employees and they always do this, well i say thats great do it when its from money youve generated not bailout money from our damn taxes used to bail your sorry ass company out of your bad business choices gone bad! not to mention the people said NO to a bailout. I for one think we have a corrupt government, to many people looking out for what gets them rich and keeps them rich, and in a position of power! it has been way pass due for change but when you got a government that can claim 9/11 wasnt an inside job and do a piss poor job of covering it up and yet with so much evidence it was our government that allowed this to happen, with so little evidence there was even a plane that hit the pentagon in the first place, when the official pentagon report of what actually happend had so many things either omitted our changed about witness reports. how are we to set in motion the wheels of change? when they have to much control. the systems is definately flawed! so we go on with our lives with the way things are cuz most people in this country can easily just forget ignore and move on cuz its convenient its nearly impossible to make things change the days of overthrowing a government are long gone at least in this country. but god knows we need it.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Originally Posted by MaD ViLLaiN

i agree with you it is our responsibility to take care of ourselves take initiative to go to a clinic hospitol etc... but when such a huge portion of americans are working a min wage job or cant even land a job, when inflation and costs of living are beyond even a middle class persons salary we have a huge problem,cause as it is our governments responsibility to make such necesities available to its citizens yet they are not. I have a HUGE problem not only with this war but we are also spending millions if not billions investing in providing power health aide food water stabilizing theyre economy and government when we have that same problem here!! and that country doesnt even fukin want us there and continue to try to kill us, this isnt worth the damage its caused over here not to mention the thousands of soldiers lives theyve claimed and families affected by that loss. when health care is out of reach for most families cuz the cost is to much and they chose to put food on the table instead and try there best to keep theyre homes, when so many families and multiple families share a 1 bedroom house with like 18 people living in it. in canada health care is free for all its citizens! we here in the usa live in a time where the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor! after the bailout AIG corporation sent several of its big wigs on a 400,000 dollar fukin vacation on our fukin dime! and claimed its a reward for theyre best employees and they always do this, well i say thats great do it when its from money youve generated not bailout money from our damn taxes used to bail your sorry ass company out of your bad business choices gone bad! not to mention the people said NO to a bailout. I for one think we have a corrupt government, to many people looking out for what gets them rich and keeps them rich, and in a position of power! it has been way pass due for change but when you got a government that can claim 9/11 wasnt an inside job and do a piss poor job of covering it up and yet with so much evidence it was our government that allowed this to happen, with so little evidence there was even a plane that hit the pentagon in the first place, when the official pentagon report of what actually happend had so many things either omitted our changed about witness reports. how are we to set in motion the wheels of change? when they have to much control. the systems is definately flawed! so we go on with our lives with the way things are cuz most people in this country can easily just forget ignore and move on cuz its convenient its nearly impossible to make things change the days of overthrowing a government are long gone at least in this country. but god knows we need it.

Jesus Christ, the enter key is there for a reason. Make paragraphs.

It is not the government's responsibility to make health care available to the citizen. The government governs, it does not coddle. If you want to be coddled, emigrate or hope some charity takes pity on you. Otherwise, work harder and work smarter.

In Canada, they pay 5% more per capita in taxes.

The rich stay rich and the poor stay poor? Oh please. People get where they want to get.

The top 1% pay about 33% of the taxes. Do they receive 33% of the benefits? The top 50% pay about 96% of the taxes. Do they receive 96% of the benefits? The rich pay for the poor. Have since 1913.

[Matej]

In my opinion it should be the government's responsibility to make sure that the people of their nation are happy and able to enjoy high living standards, which includes tax-funded health care.

It's easy to say if you don't like it here then get out, but it's not so easy to do. I'm pretty sure you'd actually see a steady stream of "emigration" if America wasn't surrounded by two oceans. You can't just drive or take a cheap bus or train across the border and try your luck in a different country, and if things don't work out you come back a few weeks later, as is common across Europe.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Originally Posted by RJF

I still haven't seen a list of Obama's accomplishments.

you could be afraid if you want but the smear campaign against Obama is reaching.

You want accomplishments? Here's a few:
His sponsorship of a bill that insured 150k ppl, including 70k cpreviously uninsured children
How about his contribution to the Ethics legislation while he was at the state house and in the senate
Or how about his work on the Illinois Immigration Bill?

There's 3 but there's much more, including election reform bills and the Cooperative Proliferation Detection reduction act.

There ARE some that do do their homework and actually chose which side they are going to lye on and not just follow the crowd. You pretend like if EVERYONE did their homework on Obama then they'd change their minds about him.
He'll make a good president, and with the polls the way they are it looks like that's going to be a certainty.

[ESmorz]

Originally Posted by Mi Beardo es Loco

you could be afraid if you want but the smear campaign against Obama is reaching.

You want accomplishments? Here's a few:
His sponsorship of a bill that insured 150k ppl, including 70k cpreviously uninsured children
How about his contribution to the Ethics legislation while he was at the state house and in the senate
Or how about his work on the Illinois Immigration Bill?

There's 3 but there's much more, including election reform bills and the Cooperative Proliferation Detection reduction act.

There ARE some that do do their homework and actually chose which side they are going to lye on and not just follow the crowd. You pretend like if EVERYONE did their homework on Obama then they'd change their minds about him.
He'll make a good president, and with the polls the way they are it looks like that's going to be a certainty.

Seriously.

Stop defending Obama.

He is the exact same as any other candidate in the past 100 years. Screened and ok'd by the people who really run the show. Nothing drastic will happen because of him. He is nothing but someone ready to be a nice show figure with the powers that be hand up his ass.

[RJF]

Originally Posted by Mi Beardo es Loco

you could be afraid if you want but the smear campaign against Obama is reaching.

You want accomplishments? Here's a few:
His sponsorship of a bill that insured 150k ppl, including 70k cpreviously uninsured children
How about his contribution to the Ethics legislation while he was at the state house and in the senate
Or how about his work on the Illinois Immigration Bill?

There's 3 but there's much more, including election reform bills and the Cooperative Proliferation Detection reduction act.

There ARE some that do do their homework and actually chose which side they are going to lye on and not just follow the crowd. You pretend like if EVERYONE did their homework on Obama then they'd change their minds about him.
He'll make a good president, and with the polls the way they are it looks like that's going to be a certainty.

Oh wow...that changes everything.

1. Insurance legislation...more spending to bloat government
2. Ethics legislation....he must not have read that one since his biggest contributor is a convicted felon
3. Immigration Bill...another good one, I'm seeing results everywhere
4. Election Reform.....another fine example considering ACORN (who Obama paid $800,000) and their voter registration is the biggest fraud ever

He's the slickest "used car salesman" to ever come along. Talks a great game and makes everyone feel good, but when it comes down to it, we're all going to get screwed. I just hope everyone is ready for a bad time, because this is going to be "Jimmy Carter - The Sequel" and I'm old enough to remember the gas lines, unemployment at 8% and inflation at 12%

[MaD ViLLaiN]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Jesus Christ, the enter key is there for a reason. Make paragraphs.

It is not the government's responsibility to make health care available to the citizen. The government governs, it does not coddle. If you want to be coddled, emigrate or hope some charity takes pity on you. Otherwise, work harder and work smarter.

In Canada, they pay 5% more per capita in taxes.

The rich stay rich and the poor stay poor? Oh please. People get where they want to get.

The top 1% pay about 33% of the taxes. Do they receive 33% of the benefits? The top 50% pay about 96% of the taxes. Do they receive 96% of the benefits? The rich pay for the poor. Have since 1913.

geez sorry didnt realize i was being graded on this, sorry for the no enter then. So you mean to say its the citizens job to make sure health care is available? its the citizens job to make jobs available? well if its our job as citizens to do such things whos job is it to make these things realisticaly attainable for the average or better yet less than average family whos income wont allow such privilages so to say, if healthcare is not a right, they are privilages then?!?! i am no wise guy but i thought the government and those in power had a responsibility to represent the PEOPLE and demand that the american way of life is attainable. and if that is not theyre role than WTF?! it should be way to many people die each year cuz theyre turned away due to no health care!

Yeah the rich pay a lot more in taxes but they can afford it, im not saying that makes it right. but
Many of those people who paid no federal income tax paid no tax because they are barely supporting their families from paycheck to paycheck and they legitimately owed no taxes to the government.
They paid sales tax. They spent money. They paid unemployement. They paid medicare. They do all they can.
But Bush and the republican party does not want them to get any relief. Only if you made enough to support your family and still owed taxes should you get anything according to them.
Here’s the kicker. One guy works at mcdonalds and has taxes taken out of his check every week. He files his taxes. He gets all of it back because he was supporting his family just barely.
The other guy works construction. Doesn’t have taxes taken out of his check, but pays the amount that he owes at the end of the year. And hes owed only a little money because he made more than the fry cook. He deserves a break while the fry cook doesn’t?
Guy number three is a bigshot at XYZ corp. and makes over $100,000 per year. Doing well. So he gets the biggest break of all.
This is the bush logic of stimulating the economy? Give more money to the people that have more money? They have money in savings. The fry cook doesn’t.
my point is this system doesnt work well and its painfully obviouse now with the crap economy there is now, of course the rich are still rich, and the poor are getting poorer just trying to survive and keep from being homeless jobless carless etc.

[RJF]

Originally Posted by MaD ViLLaiN

This is the bush logic of stimulating the economy? Give more money to the people that have more money? They have money in savings. The fry cook doesn’t.
my point is this system doesnt work well and its painfully obviouse now with the crap economy there is now, of course the rich are still rich, and the poor are getting poorer just trying to survive and keep from being homeless jobless carless etc.

No, that's not how it works. We have a progressive tax system, where the more income the higher the rate.

So, your $100,000 earner pays 28% on his income, while the lower earners pay rates of 10%, 15% or 25%

With this system, the "rich" pay the majority of the taxes, with the top 1% paying 40% of the taxes.

Taxes and Income - WSJ.com

[MaD ViLLaiN]

How many of you make $2000 per month or less? the republican party don’t believe you should receive any relief from the recession they have created. You aren’t valuable to the economy because you didn’t owe enough in taxes. Giving you money will not boost the economy at all.

and families with incomes below $40,000 would at most receive partial rebates.

How many of you make $3333 per month or less? The Bush boys think you are worth giving some money to, but certainly not the full tax break.

But a household with an income of $100,000 or more could get back $1,600

How many of you make $8333 or more per month? You get to add a little more money into your savings account because you likely have one already. You do not need to spend that money right away. That does not boost the economy.
If you are in this category, you likely agree with Bush on this because you want a tax break. However, it’s the economy that needs the boost. What is good for you is not necessarily what is good for the country during a recession.

For the purpose of jump-starting the economy, economists want people to spend extra money as quickly as possible.

By putting that money into the hands of workers who need it, you give them money that will be spent right away and the recession will go away. You will benefit a lot more with the economy doing better than you will with a one-time payment of $1600.

“The president again is focused on broad-based tax relief for those who are paying taxes,” said Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. when asked at a news conference on Friday whether “everybody” would get a tax break. “This is something that has worked well before, has worked in 2001, worked in 2003.”
Administration officials and Republican lawmakers say it only makes sense to give tax rebates to people who actually paid taxes.
“You have to be a taxpayer in order to get a tax rebate,” said Representative Paul D. Ryan, Republican of Wisconsin and a member of the House Ways and Means Committee. “The White House is very clear that this is for people who pay taxes.”

POOR PEOPLE PAY TAXES TOO! The federal income tax is not the only way we are taxed in this country. Poor people and most middle class people also spend almost if not all of their paycheck every single week.
By percentage and by total amount, poor people and the middle class, (the real middle class that makes less than $100,000 per year, not the bush definition of the middle class that makes $200,000+ per year) put more money into the economy than those that make much more money.
Those that make $100,000 per year or more stimulate the stock market, which according to them and the bush administration will eventually boost the economy. Trickle down economics means give a lot of money to rich people and corporations and some of it will eventually trickle down to the middle class and poor of this country, but it should always go to the rich first so they can decide how much of it to give the rest of us.

Robert Greenstein, director of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a research group in Washington, estimated that under the Republican plan, as many as 65 million Americans with low or modest incomes would miss out on part or all of the payments.
“This approach fails on two counts,” Mr. Greenstein said. “It omits or partly omits those who need the help. And it omits the tens of millions of people who are living paycheck to paycheck and who would be most likely to quickly spend every dollar they can get.”

[Matej]

Originally Posted by RJF

4. Election Reform.....another fine example considering ACORN (who Obama paid $800,000) and their voter registration is the biggest fraud ever

That happened locally. After further investigation it was found out that supposedly republicans were behind it. They knew such an obvious scam would get caught, it was done to make the democrats look bad.

[MaD ViLLaiN]

Originally Posted by RJF

No, that's not how it works. We have a progressive tax system, where the more income the higher the rate.

So, your $100,000 earner pays 28% on his income, while the lower earners pay rates of 10%, 15% or 25%

With this system, the "rich" pay the majority of the taxes, with the top 1% paying 40% of the taxes.

Taxes and Income - WSJ.com

well you cant tax the lower income family any more than that cuz they aint got it in the first place! hehe like i said i dont think the system the way it is works well to the benefit of all americans.

We need to rebuild this system, we need to ensure american families arent struggling the way millions of them are! this is america! and sooooo many families are living like they were in 3rd world countries! our government will easily and happily with out a moments hesitation donate money to other countries to aide them in healthcare homes education etc. to look like heroes to some.

While right here on our own soil we dont have such willing aide! education costs an arm and a leg and a left nut! so unless your already wealthy or a whizz kid and get a full ride scholarship its really hard to get that education needed to make a good living. go to community college and work from there yeah, but out of the many that try that how many get buried in debt and fail to finish and follow through and finish school cuz its overwhelming and they need to drop out and get fulltime jobs to survive and pay theyre rediculose student loans!

i feel health care should be a right to american citizens! and why shouldnt it. and anyone that disagrees probably lives in a family that are better off or at least well off enough where theyre family works ok jobs and can afford healthcare. While there is way too many families that dont have this ability alot of low income families work jobs were health care isnt offered as a benefit.

the big picture here is this government and the way its ran needs to be restructured to strengthen not just the economy or its policies but the people in it from the rich to the poor! its clear the people are angry and feeling left out, im not saying turn america into a charity case and hand out awesome lives with fat checks, i think only the hard working and driven should earn such things in life. but make it realisticaly attainable.

[ALTRNTV]

I'd hit it.

[MaD ViLLaiN]

^^ahhahahahahaha^^ funny!

[ALTRNTV]

Pinoy reppin'.

[luckvx]

i agree with esmorz, but fuck mccain still voting for obama i mean shit republicans ran this country for 8 years nothing good came, we do need a change some democrats to run the show again,

and if mccain wins and dies, we will have a dumbass to run the country palin bitch stupid, she went to school for communications thats why she so great at speaches, anybody can bullshit

[Antihero983]

ok so a contributor to obama was a felon....so what?

how does that make it right or wrong?

I'm sure there are some mccain contributors who have some very fucked up skeletons in their closet, but got away cause theyre uber rich.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by RedEvilRPS13

ok so a contributor to obama was a felon....so what?

how does that make it right or wrong?

I'm sure there are some mccain contributors who have some very fucked up skeletons in their closet, but got away cause theyre uber rich.

Hell, there is one in McCaint's BED with him with some skeletons in her closet, how come no one is talking about that?
Let us not forget William Timmons (yes, that is a link, click it), if we're gonna discuss "palling around with terrorists" and such, since people you know and their pasts are apparently things that you're now culpable for and all.

[KA24DESOneThree]

There is no right to health care. Have you checked the Constitution, its amendments, the Declaration of Independence, or the Articles of Confederation? The right DOES NOT EXIST. We must fight to make enough money, to get an education, to get the skills required to get a job that pays well enough to live the American dream.

Taxing people more because they have more money is just about the most backwards idea in history. We do not reward success, we punish it. Make money on your investments? You must pay. Win a state-run game of chance? You must pay.

There have always been those who struggle to survive in the United States. There always will be. I understand that it's hard to bear and that you feel like it should not be happening here, but please also understand that destroying the ideals that the country was founded on will not make the problem better.

[sillyvia13]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

There is no right to health care. Have you checked the Constitution, its amendments, the Declaration of Independence, or the Articles of Confederation? The right DOES NOT EXIST. We must fight to make enough money, to get an education, to get the skills required to get a job that pays well enough to live the American dream.

Taxing people more because they have more money is just about the most backwards idea in history. We do not reward success, we punish it. Make money on your investments? You must pay. Win a state-run game of chance? You must pay.

There have always been those who struggle to survive in the United States. There always will be. I understand that it's hard to bear and that you feel like it should not be happening here, but please also understand that destroying the ideals that the country was founded on will not make the problem better.

well if we lived by them once again and not by made up "rules" to better certain people we'd be goood!

[RJF]

Originally Posted by Matej

That happened locally. After further investigation it was found out that supposedly republicans were behind it. They knew such an obvious scam would get caught, it was done to make the democrats look bad.

Proof?

And it wasn't local. There are investigations happening in 13 states.

Originally Posted by PHLIP

Hell, there is one in McCaint's BED with him with some skeletons in her closet, how come no one is talking about that?
Let us not forget William Timmons (yes, that is a link, click it), if we're gonna discuss "palling around with terrorists" and such, since people you know and their pasts are apparently things that you're now culpable for and all.

Did McCain meet Saddam?

Obama "personally" worked with Ayers. And Obama's political career was launched in Ayer's living room.

[RJF]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

There is no right to health care. Have you checked the Constitution, its amendments, the Declaration of Independence, or the Articles of Confederation? The right DOES NOT EXIST. We must fight to make enough money, to get an education, to get the skills required to get a job that pays well enough to live the American dream.

Taxing people more because they have more money is just about the most backwards idea in history. We do not reward success, we punish it. Make money on your investments? You must pay. Win a state-run game of chance? You must pay.

There have always been those who struggle to survive in the United States. There always will be. I understand that it's hard to bear and that you feel like it should not be happening here, but please also understand that destroying the ideals that the country was founded on will not make the problem better.

+imaginary rep

You nailed it.

Like you said, according to Obama, healthcare is a right. That sounds like socialism.

I don't see that in the Constitution. The Constitution states:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

"Promote the general Welfare" means not impede, in other words stay out of the people's way.

More socialist rhetoric:

Barack Obama was confronted by a plumber in Ohio this past weekend who was concerned about Obama's proposed tax increases. The plumber asked Obama, "Why do want to raise my taxes?" Obama told the man, "I think when you spread the wealth around it's good for everybody."



Spread the wealth? In other words take what I have earned and give it to those that haven't earned it.


Regarding taxes, we see that here running Zilvia. Both Mark and I have full-time jobs and run Zilvia in our "spare" time. If we happen to make alittle extra money beyond our expenses and show a small profit, we get nailed with extra taxes, including self-employment taxes (plus potential penalties for not withholding during the year).

Investments are another story. If you have any savings or investments you in fact are being double-taxed. The first time when you made the money (payroll) and the second time when you get a dividend or interest. Is that fair?

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Originally Posted by RJF

+imaginary rep

You nailed it.

Like you said, according to Obama, healthcare is a right. That sounds like socialism.

I don't see that in the Constitution. The Constitution states:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

"Promote the general Welfare" means promote not impede, in other words stay out of the people's way.

More socialist rhetoric:

Barack Obama was confronted by a plumber in Ohio this past weekend who was concerned about Obama's proposed tax increases. The plumber asked Obama, "Why do want to raise my taxes?" Obama told the man, "I think when you spread the wealth around it's good for everybody."

Spread the wealth? In other words take what I have earned and give it to those that haven't earned it.


Regarding taxes, we see that here running Zilvia. Both Mark and I have full-time jobs and run Zilvia in our "spare" time. If we happen to make alittle extra money beyond our expenses and show a small profit, we get nailed with extra taxes, including self-employment taxes (plus potential penalties for not withholding during the year).

Investments are another story. If you have any savings or investments you in fact are being double-taxed. The first time when you made the money (payroll) and the second time when you get a dividend or interest. Is that fair?

I think we agree on this one. Although, you have to understand that since 9/11 our Constitutional rights have been removed by this administration. Ben Franklin said it best ""people willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both." the Bush administration has led a fear campaign and it frightened enough people to willingly give up those rights. I understand that Obama might not be the BEST candidate, which is why I'm not voting for him, but I also understand that we MUST NOT stay the course.
Also.........FUCK TAXES. The only thing about taxes though is that they will be needed to get out of our financial hole. But all the extra taxes, including the bailout, is nonscence to me! Number one rule of saving is to stop spending money and money will pile up.

[RJF]

What Constitutional rights have been removed?

[WanganRunner]

Originally Posted by ESmorz

He is the exact same as any other candidate in the past 100 years. Screened and ok'd by the people who really run the show. Nothing drastic will happen because of him. He is nothing but someone ready to be a nice show figure with the powers that be hand up his ass.

This is conspiracy theory bullshit.

No one is "running the show". This is not Metal Gear Solid.



The inclination to somehow attribute the complexities of systems one doesn't understand (politics, the free markets) to some kind of "shadow figure" is the same inclination that motivated ancient people to invent religion to explain why the sun moved. You're fabricating fallacy to explain what you cannot otherwise comprehend because, for whatever reason, you're uncomfortable with the idea of not comprehending something.



NOTE: I'd like to see the quote from a RELIABLE SOURCE on that plumber conversation from Ohio. I somehow doubt that the plumber is making more than $250,000 per year, and if he isn't, he will get a tax BREAK under Obama's plan (well, under both plans, technically).

I'll take "Tax and Spend" over "Spend and Don't Tax" any day of the week. Using tomorrow's projected surpluses to fund tax cuts today is a huge mistake. Don't spend the money until you have the money.

[RJF]

Originally Posted by WanganRunner

NOTE: I'd like to see the quote from a RELIABLE SOURCE on that plumber conversation from Ohio. I somehow doubt that the plumber is making more than $250,000 per year, and if he isn't, he will get a tax BREAK under Obama's plan (well, under both plans, technically).

You can hear the quote straight from Obama in the video clip posted above.

What the scary part of that $250,000 number is that it has not been defined. What does it consist of? Gross receipts? Profits? He won't say and that makes the potential very scary.