Solved: CD009 trans on SR20DET - Vibration at 4000rpm? (Posts #79, 108)

[canadians14sr20det]

So I've thought about this issue a lot lately lol as I had my GT3076R grenade itself (waiting on parts).

Here's what I have:

• Makes the noise slightly in neutral (clutch pedal out) and in gear (clutch pedal in) with the car stationary.
• Makes the noise BADLY under load (driving or rear wheels in the air with ebrake dragging)

My thoughts on causes are now only the following:

• Transmission is shifting hitting the body under load.
  (I really doubt it's this, as the shifter barely moves and I have clearanced the shit out of the tunnel, ensuring there's at minimum half an inch. I've also tested this by moving the transmission down another inch on its mounts, still makes the noise.)
• Resonance in the z33 transmission.

I think it's resonance. I'm using the S-chassis mount on the transmission with a crossmember I fabricated. If you look at the oem nissan mount it's a completely different design. It's also secured to the crossmember by a bolt nissan itself calls a "damper bolt". Nissan also uses a dual mass flywheel to smooth vibrations as well. I'm thinking this transmission is just super noisy by design.

Solution? I don't really have one, but I'm gonna build a new crossmember that uses nissan's mount system over the winter, but until the snow flies I'm just gonna drive it.

[wurley]

Originally Posted by canadians14sr20det

I even went so far as to measure the frequency of the vibration

Could you explain to me how you did this please? It might help my cousin dealing with a similar vibration on a different car.

Originally Posted by canadians14sr20det

• Makes the noise slightly in neutral (clutch pedal out) and in gear (clutch pedal in) with the car stationary.

My thoughts on causes are now only the following:

• Transmission is shifting hitting the body under load.
  (I really doubt it's this, as the shifter barely moves and I have clearanced the shit out of the tunnel, ensuring there's at minimum half an inch. I've also tested this by moving the transmission down another inch on its mounts, still makes the noise.)
• Resonance in the z33 transmission.

If clutch pedal is pressed in with the car stationary, doesn't that mean nothing is moving in the trans?

Originally Posted by canadians14sr20det

I think it's resonance. I'm using the S-chassis mount on the transmission with a crossmember I fabricated. If you look at the oem nissan mount it's a completely different design. It's also secured to the crossmember by a bolt nissan itself calls a "damper bolt". Nissan also uses a dual mass flywheel to smooth vibrations as well. I'm thinking this transmission is just super noisy by design.

When converting from a dual mass to regular flywheel, people often talk about having more vibration and noise. I have seen threads on bmw and volkswagon forums about this.

[loucal]

You all realize that these transmissions right out of the box are extremely loud right?

Go on a 350z forum and you will see plenty of complaints about how loud they are and that is in a car that has much better sound deadening than our cars. I have about 3,500 miles on my setup and am making 400whp and the trans is perfectly fine, and loud as hell.

I wouldn't worry and go ahead and enjoy the car.

Lou

[canadians14sr20det]

Originally Posted by loucal

You all realize that these transmissions right out of the box are extremely loud right?

Go on a 350z forum and you will see plenty of complaints about how loud they are and that is in a car that has much better sound deadening than our cars. I have about 3,500 miles on my setup and am making 400whp and the trans is perfectly fine, and loud as hell.

I wouldn't worry and go ahead and enjoy the car.

Lou

This isn't just this car being loud, trust me. This is some sort of resonance that vibrates the entire chassis, feels like the car is gonna come apart. Also the fact it happens at one part of the rev range is concerning. Resonances like that can be highly destructive.

Could you explain to me how you did this please? It might help my cousin dealing with a similar vibration on a different car.

Get a vibration measuring app for your phone. I used "Vibrations" on a samsung s6 edge. It uses the accelerometer and microphone to figure out the mechanical and audio vibration. It's pretty accurate surprisingly. I just set my phone on the valve cover and opened the throttle to 4000rpm. Then you can convert the vibration from Hz to rpm by doing this:

http://www.kylesconverter.com/freque...ons-per-minute

If you get a Hz reading of say 134, you know the vibration is occuring at 8000RPM or twice every crank rotation if your are revving the motor to 4000RPM and holding it there. Generally, if it happens in the first order, look at your rotating assembly (flywheel, crank, pistons/rods and balancer). If it happens at the half order (or less) look at your valvetrain. If it happens at the second order good luck, it can be a ton of things. Read up on vibration analysis in machinery for more on this. Hope that helps!

If clutch pedal is pressed in with the car stationary, doesn't that mean nothing is moving in the trans?

If the clutch pedal is pushed in with the car in gear it means nothing is moving in the trans. If the pedal is pushed in but the transmission is in neutral drag on the clutch disk and input shaft snub will still rotate the transmission a bit, but not a lot.

[jedi03]

did you make your own rear crossmember or use someone elses?

[loucal]

Hey All,

I've had this up and running for a couple of years now. You are 100% rubbing on the chassis. It literally hits somewhere on every side of the trans/tunnel.

Also what deff said, when i was first fitting everything up i was hard up against the top of the tunnel.

What cross member are you using?

Lou

[LovetoSlide]

Man all these suggestions but none coming from someone who actually uses the trans......I bought a brand new OS giken twin plate, brand new cd009 when everything was swapped in. using maverick's adapter plate where the bellhousing was trimmed to fit.

The noise is super obvious on decel and it sounds like a fighter jet....before the old mounts (they were either stock or nismo) it would sound like a freight train coming off it's rails....now after my mech switched it to solid mounts....the noise is bearable at the most but still apparent.

I notice the noise goes away a lot when you muzzle the shifter....I want to say that's the best we can do at this point is just get a shit load of sound deadening in the area.

My buddy has the same set-up and gets the same sounds......the car feels and shifts great, grabs so hard that v8 stang, STI's are child's play. even my friend's s14 with 300+ versus my stock turbo set-up could only pull away from me by inches.

It sounds awful but it's definitely not mechanical, sounds like what loucal says about chassis rubs.

[TheRealSy90]

Originally Posted by LovetoSlide

Man all these suggestions but none coming from someone who actually uses the trans......I bought a brand new OS giken twin plate, brand new cd009 when everything was swapped in. using maverick's adapter plate where the bellhousing was trimmed to fit.

TS2BD clutch? What flywheel bolts did you use? Did you have to cut them shorter like the instructions say?




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[TheRealSy90]

I'll be using it myself, haven't installed it yet. These transmissions ARE "noisy", but shouldn't be anything crazy. But they are louder than the stock trans for sure.


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[R3b]

Just my .02 but I think its normal if your running a puck clutch. I have a similar issue with my ka-t setup. I had spec before and had crazy vibration around 3.5-4k on decel, did literally everything from mounts, bushings, driveshaft and even cracked open the bell housing and everything checked out.

Just rebuilt the motor and had the whole rotating assembly balance with comp bunny clutch for more power and right after starting up the car and driving down the block the noise was still there but less aggressive.

Its just "racecar" problems and something you have to deal with, running a puck clutch in any sorta car will make crazy noise having less dampening and stuff outside of oem shifter, mounts, flywheel etc will just make it louder than it should be.

Does it sound like this? Asked the guy and he told me the exact thing just being the puck clutch and is "normal" @17:33

[Teambadrun]

ok so
the z33 transmission is always noisey, and being a SMF it will be even noisier then stock.
i wouldnt worry about it
we have done loads of conversions of the z33 box to RB, JZ and SR20's and most are noisey, unless its a totally new transmission then the noise is minimized
thanks

[insa]

Nope, it doesn't sound like in the video at 17:33. In my case, we are also still running a dampened organic clutch...

It's not about noise. Don't really care about noise. It's about vibrations, as these can be harmful to other components.

I guess I will make a video next year...

[fatduece]

Teambadrun what is smf?

[R3b]

Originally Posted by fatduece

Teambadrun what is smf?

So much fun

[hanzbrady]

Originally Posted by fatduece

Teambadrun what is smf?

Single Mass Flywheel.

[fatduece]

Originally Posted by hanzbrady

Single Mass Flywheel.

Thank you.

[fatduece]

^What balancer shafts are you talking about? Pictures would be great.

[hanzbrady]

Originally Posted by fatduece

^What balancer shafts are you talking about? Pictures would be great.

He's talking about balance shafts that are OEM parts to engines like the 4G63

[fatduece]

I know about the ag63 but he said harmonic weights attached to the back of the transmission. I've. Ever herd of that before.

[travon47]

Originally Posted by fatduece

I know about the ag63 but he said harmonic weights attached to the back of the transmission. I've. Ever herd of that before.

There are 2, one on each side right below the shifter
http://www.slidegood.com/nissan/03-n...sion-weight-mt

[fatduece]

Originally Posted by travon47

There are 2, one on each side right below the shifter
http://www.slidegood.com/nissan/03-n...sion-weight-mt

Thank you. Man that's weird. I bought a new cd009 and it didn't come with those.

[hanzbrady]

Originally Posted by fatduece

Thank you. Man that's weird. I bought a new cd009 and it didn't come with those.

I sell new CD009's and I've never seen those lol

[travon47]

Originally Posted by fatduece

Thank you. Man that's weird. I bought a new cd009 and it didn't come with those.

Makes sense because its an add on to the trans. I am not sure if they would fit with a custom trans mount in a s chassis( I took mine off before installing into car) but if I can find mine I could send them to whom ever if they pay shipping

[insa]

Originally Posted by travon47

Makes sense because its an add on to the trans. I am not sure if they would fit with a custom trans mount in a s chassis( I took mine off before installing into car) but if I can find mine I could send them to whom ever if they pay shipping

Thanks for the input! Never heard of or seen these either

Originally Posted by gaz_moose

if your going to pull the thing to pieces then maybe have a look at your spigot bearing in the back of the crankshaft as if the adapter plate sits the box out of line ever so slightly it can wear the spigot causing the input shaft to wiggle around.

Thanks, will be replacing this.

[gaz_moose]

if your going to pull the thing to pieces then maybe have a look at your spigot bearing in the back of the crankshaft as if the adapter plate sits the box out of line ever so slightly it can wear the spigot causing the input shaft to wiggle around.

[travon47]

Here is another pic showing where it sits. Its right at the tall section on the side before the shifter extension


http://www.soarerworld.com/forum/att...8&d=1358163820

[fatduece]

Weird! Keep updating this. Makes me nervous about mine.

[Kingtal0n]

make sure the engine exhaust system does not contact the chassis in any point. If you use a hanger for the exhaust to drivetrain, tie it to the trans crossmember like a factory mount (use the same sort of bushing the OEM uses).


I think you are having two issues. One is the mounting/vibration/noise related to the way the trans and exhaust system is mounted.

The other, resonance/vibration at specific RPM under load sounds like a pinion angle issue. The trans tail shaft and differential input flange need to be at identical angles (equal and opposite), with the trans higher than the differential so the driveshaft has a downward slope.

[canadians14sr20det]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

make sure the engine exhaust system does not contact the chassis in any point. If you use a hanger for the exhaust to drivetrain, tie it to the trans crossmember like a factory mount (use the same sort of bushing the OEM uses).


I think you are having two issues. One is the mounting/vibration/noise related to the way the trans and exhaust system is mounted.

The other, resonance/vibration at specific RPM under load sounds like a pinion angle issue. The trans tail shaft and differential input flange need to be at identical angles (equal and opposite), with the trans higher than the differential so the driveshaft has a downward slope.

So I have run the car without exhaust, ensuring nothing is touching in any way. Vibration is still present.

Also the vibration is present with the car in gear and clutch in. The pinion angle was measured and set correctly. Its also not speed sensitive. I'm positive it's not driveshaft related.

There is another thread about this on here where the op mentioned it may be caused by worn input shaft bearings allowing some slop. Thats gonna get replaced when/if I do a mazworx vq->Sr bell housing. Next up is the damper on the side of the tranny and then the ATI super damper. Transmission rebuild and new bellhousing is the last resort.

[hanzbrady]

Originally Posted by canadians14sr20det

So I have run the car without exhaust, ensuring nothing is touching in any way. Vibration is still present.

Also the vibration is present with the car in gear and clutch in. The pinion angle was measured and set correctly. Its also not speed sensitive. I'm positive it's not driveshaft related.

There is another thread about this on here where the op mentioned it may be caused by worn input shaft bearings allowing some slop. Thats gonna get replaced when/if I do a mazworx vq->Sr bell housing. Next up is the damper on the side of the tranny and then the ATI super damper. Transmission rebuild and new bellhousing is the last resort.

I'm not of any help to your current issue, but when it comes time to buy that adapter shoot me an email and I'll cut you a deal on it!