Need Opinions-tough decision to make

[Adirondackjack]

Here goes-

I have a 1989 240sx restoration that I put together a few years ago with a lot of blood, sweat, and tears. I only drive her now and then. My daughter just started college and I need to raise money to pay for it. This has been a hard thing, but I realize that I have to sell the car. The car is really nice and I went first class on her. Spent about $50,000 putting her together.

I am looking for opinions as to the best way to recoup my investment and have come up with a couple options:

1. Try to sell her for what I have in her- problem here is nobody has that kind of scratch, even though the 50K doesn't even include a huge amount of "sweat equity" I put into her. But, best to recognize that this option has about as much chance of happening as nothing at all.

2. Part her out, and take the chance that I won't get stuck with some big portion of her which doesn't sell, and which is useless without the rest of the car. Also, it seems like a sacrilege to take her apart, after I worked so hard putting her together. She is really quite unique, and cool, and beautiful the way she is. . . . . .2,300 lbs., and 344 hp RWHP!

3. Resign myself to taking a loss on her and put her up for sale at a deeply discounted price that I know people can afford, and take the tax loss to help my 1040 and improve my daughter's financial aid situation for school.

I am leaning toward #3 above, but would be real interested to hear from people here about what they think. Anyone out there been in my situation? And if so, what did you do?

Thanks in advance for your valuable input,

Adirondackjack

[LOUD240]

how do you put $50,000 into a 240?
pics or it never happend

[Adirondackjack]

I'll try, but my pics are always too big to post, and I am a poor pic poster as well. Also, I'm Ok with you thinking it never happened. My problem is still my problem, regardless of what you believe. I'll try to post pics (no promises), but thanks anyway for the help.

Dave R.

[harrypotter]

This is going to be epic!

[jonsparrow]

if you put 50k into it, it better look/perform like this...

[Adirondackjack]

Trying to figure out how to post the pics. Any thoughts as to which way I should go on this?

[harrypotter]

Let me google that for you

Or

http://zilvia.net/f/forum-suggestion...pics-here.html

Originally Posted by Adirondackjack

Trying to figure out how to post the pics. Any thoughts as to which way I should go on this?

The best of the best 240 on this site will barley have half of what you claim to have in your yet to be posted car. Minus the Weld S14 and the audio beast S14 of course cause those are high dollar. Best way you should go is to be honest on how much you spent on the car.

[enkei2k]

50k invested is a lot. But 50k = 344 hp RWHP? I was hoping for more.

At least can you list your mods and whatever you did to it?

Please don't be another GTRmain.

[Adirondackjack]

harrypotter-

Thanks for the pic posting info. I'll try to get them up and running as soon as I can.

I do have all the receipts for what I spent, but the whole reason for this post was to get good info. on how to re-coup my investment. I didn't believe it when I was told that I would be wasting my time here, because folks were more interested in tearing each other apart and debating their own self-appointed agendas. Now I'm not so sure. I realize the importance of honesty and credibility, but my paint job/bodywork alone, cost $16,000 plus.
You all can say I spent too much for that, but you weren't there.

I'll put up the pics when I can get some time to use the links you sent me, but it's looking like this probably won't be the place to get good information about what is the best way to proceed. Sounds like you guys are used to scammers (who is GTRmain?), so it's hard for you to take anyone at face value. The concept I was thinking of here is one we are one of the only countries in the world to supposedly have: innocent till proven guilty. Starting to think that doesn't apply here.

Like I said, I'll post pics when I get a chance, but I am anticipating (from this initial genuine and well-meant inquiry) that the posts will degenerate into a feeding frenzy on some issue I didn't raise, so I'll probably never get the help I need here.

Thanks anyway guys,

Dave

[harrypotter]

Originally Posted by Adirondackjack

....Sounds like you guys are used to scammers (who is GTRmain?)....

No we see the reason you are here.

[jonsparrow]

you cant really expected to be taken serious when you show up out of no where saying you have a $50k 240sx with no evidence to back it up. its the internet. for all we know you are a 13 year old kid.

[Adirondackjack]

Understood. Point taken. On the other hand, guilty until proven innocent doesn't sit well either. First post was "how do you put $50,000 into a 240?
pics or it never happend" ? Not a very friendly intro. Will post some info as soon as I can. Thanks.

[sil80owner]

We are not here to make you feel warm and fuzzy so do not expect a friendly welcome. Im sure people are more than willing to help. im also sure they do not want to waste their time. Before you can receive any sort of advise they must know what exactly you have to help you determine what's the best route to take. At the very least post list of mods. for all we know you are just posting bs like gtrmain so better info is key GL with your situation

[Darren]

Sorry to break it to you, you will never recoupe an "investment" in a car unless it's a collectable car. Paint is not an asset, it's an expense, once you've paid for it, it's not something you can recoupe unless you only spent a couple hundred on it.

Not trying to bash you, just telling you the straight hard facts...

Good luck, and btw, this is what RESPs are for

[georgeasorous]

I have built 4 cars in my life and one thing i have learned is that you never get back what you have put in! I also have a few friends with shops and built track cars and they dont even reach $50,000 in mods, and there cars are beasty! if what you say is true i would like to see pics!

[Adirondackjack]

I appreciate all the candid advice. That is what I am looking for. Forgive me. The tone of other forums I am on is significantly different. No reason to expect the same degree of kindness I've experienced as a participator on those over the last five or six years. My bad. I get how you guys treat each other here now, and won't build any kindness or civility expectations. I actually have some lifelong friends from my other forum experiences. Interestingly, I invented a product which I got a patent for and am now manufacturing and selling both direct on the internet, and through dealers. As a business owner, I would not opt to sell to a crowd like I've just experienced here. I think one of the posters here mentioned that this forum was definitely not warm and fuzzy. I'm not sure that is something to be proud of. I had enough of that as a LEO on the job. I can tell you that I have only offered my product in forum settings where folks are kind and friendly to each other, and have had great success and interaction with those folks. It is very easy to be friendly only to those folks you have known a long time. Half the fun in life is making new connections with folks who share your interests. That includes newbees who don't know what they are doing, but are well intentioned. Again, it's easy to alienate and exclude. Not so easy to make new connections. Thanks again for the quick education, and more info to come.

[SupaDoopa]

You have 6 posts on Zilvia. You have no pictures. Expect people to flame until you post a picture. Fuck it. E-mail it to someone and they'll post it.

[Arireese]

Originally Posted by Adirondackjack

harrypotter-

Thanks for the pic posting info. I'll try to get them up and running as soon as I can.

I do have all the receipts for what I spent, but the whole reason for this post was to get good info. on how to re-coup my investment. I didn't believe it when I was told that I would be wasting my time here, because folks were more interested in tearing each other apart and debating their own self-appointed agendas. Now I'm not so sure. I realize the importance of honesty and credibility, but my paint job/bodywork alone, cost $16,000 plus.
You all can say I spent too much for that, but you weren't there.

I'll put up the pics when I can get some time to use the links you sent me, but it's looking like this probably won't be the place to get good information about what is the best way to proceed. Sounds like you guys are used to scammers (who is GTRmain?), so it's hard for you to take anyone at face value. The concept I was thinking of here is one we are one of the only countries in the world to supposedly have: innocent till proven guilty. Starting to think that doesn't apply here.

Like I said, I'll post pics when I get a chance, but I am anticipating (from this initial genuine and well-meant inquiry) that the posts will degenerate into a feeding frenzy on some issue I didn't raise, so I'll probably never get the help I need here.

Thanks anyway guys,

Dave

my buddy brian spent 16k in paint too. some jerks shot his car with guns and his nos tanks exploded...scumbags..

[Broadfield]

Originally Posted by harrypotter

The best of the best 240 on this site will barley have half of what you claim to have in your yet to be posted car. Minus the Weld S14 and the audio beast S14 of course cause those are high dollar. Best way you should go is to be honest on how much you spent on the car.

Really? Because at any given time I have $50,000+ wrapped up in mine... and that doesn't include the thousands of hours of my time/labor.

OP, if you do indeed have this car with $50k into it, then I look forward to seeing it. As for selling the car outright, you won't get even half what you have invested into it. If you post a picture of it inside, outside, engine bay etc I could give you a good idea of what a high dollar, mint 240 is worth. It's going to come down to the styling though. If it's all molded in body kit, audio crap everywhere etc. then it's not going to be worth near as much if it had a mean motor and clean styling. As for the difficult choice, I have been there. I had to sell a bad-ass STi for monetary reasons. But since then, I have slowly built a really nice 240. And since you are doing this for your daughter's future, then losing an object like a car is not really that important in the end. You can always build another one down the line. I know I would do anything for my two daughters... and objects have much less importance once you are a father. You are obviously doing the right thing... like you said, it's just a matter of what method will best help your daughter obtain as much funding as possible for her schooling.

I would say #2 depending on what parts are on this thing. Parting out always seems to yield more than selling it as a whole... especially with the 240 crowd. Even if the individual parts are expensive ones, you can always find a buyer willing to spend $2000 on nice used wheels etc. It's just when you try to sell the car as a whole, you are asking someone to like everything you did to it AND be able to afford it. Good luck man! Lets see those pics and parts list.

[harrypotter]

Sorry I left you out Toby, didn't know you had that much into yours. But you get what I was saying I'm sure.

Originally Posted by Broadfield

Really? Because at any given time I have $50,000+ wrapped up in mine... and that doesn't include the thousands of hours of my time/labor.

OP, if you do indeed have this car with $50k into it, then I look forward to seeing it. As for selling the car outright, you won't get even half what you have invested into it. If you post a picture of it inside, outside, engine bay etc I could give you a good idea of what a high dollar, mint 240 is worth. It's going to come down to the styling though. If it's all molded in body kit, audio crap everywhere etc. then it's not going to be worth near as much if it had a mean motor and clean styling. As for the difficult choice, I have been there. I had to sell a bad-ass STi for monetary reasons. But since then, I have slowly built a really nice 240. And since you are doing this for your daughter's future, then losing an object like a car is not really that important in the end. You can always build another one down the line. I know I would do anything for my two daughters... and objects have much less importance once you are a father. You are obviously doing the right thing... like you said, it's just a matter of what method will best help your daughter obtain as much funding as possible for her schooling.

I would say #2 depending on what parts are on this thing. Parting out always seems to yield more than selling it as a whole... especially with the 240 crowd. Even if the individual parts are expensive ones, you can always find a buyer willing to spend $2000 on nice used wheels etc. It's just when you try to sell the car as a whole, you are asking someone to like everything you did to it AND be able to afford it. Good luck man! Lets see those pics and parts list.

[Broadfield]

Originally Posted by harrypotter

Sorry I left you out Toby, didn't know you had that much into yours. But you get what I was saying I'm sure.

LOL, I wasn't worried about being left out... I just think people have more into their cars than they or others realize. It's scary once you start adding everything up. When I sold my entire SR setup, drivetrain etc. I added up what the stuff cost and it was $20,000. I couldn't sell the whole setup for $9,000... but parted it out and got $10,000. It didn't get me too far on my LS3 build, but it was a good start.

[Adirondackjack]

Thanks Broadfield. Thought there might be someone with similar experience to mine who might appreciate my dilemma.

Winning Best Tuner at Boston World of Wheels:












And here are the Mods:

1989 240SX


Body/Exterior
• Custom 2-tone PPG finish: Diamond Black + Sunburst Pearlcoat Red Metallic/Airbrushed Platinum
Pearlcoat belt graphic, Super Clear-coated (total of 13 coats of finish)
• Molded full body kit, Carbon Fiber front Splitter, APR Carbon Fiber GT-3 Racing Mirrors: Custom
adapted to OEM bases
• Carbon Fiber Matrix Racing full 62” molded and contoured rear wing w/bright custom stainless standoffs
• Carbon Fiber VIS Cowl-Induction hood w/bright hood pins, PIAA 1200 Driving Lights, + Kouki front bumper position lights
• Fully functioning Race-ready Roof Scoop and NSX rear brake body vents, Shaved antenna and rear wiper

Interior
• Phantom-series Autometer dual-pod A-pillar-mounted gauges, Indiglo (blue or green) White-faced guage cluster
• Color-matched Dash Panels and Trim, OMP composite pedals, 5% Deep limo tint
• Color-matched custom harness bar, OEM “240sx” embroidered OEM premium carpeted floor mats
• Competition Naugahide racing seats w/ 4-point harnesses, Hella emergency-racing battery shutoff
• Momo “Thunder” leather steering wheel, Momo Leather shift knob, and Momo Leather and stainless E-brake handle
• Apexi SAFC 2 multi info guage, Greddy Profec B SpecII Boost Controller, Greddy Turbo Timer
• Power assisted steering, Power door locks, Tilt steering wheel
• Custom Interior: Leather door panels, Head and hatchliner, Carbon fiber custom trim panels, Power windows, Power Locks

Suspension
• Cusco front and rear strut braces (rear: red neon accent lighted), KYB-AGX adjustable struts, Tein Drop springs
• Suspension Techniques front and rear Anti-sway bars, urethane bushings and end links
• 300 ZX fr. Big-Brake upgrade, Stillen Cross-drilled rotors/Hawk HPS pads/Goodridge SS Lines
• Kics 15 mm (front) wheel spacers, Willwood manual brake proportioning valve
• RO_JA Motegi Formula-7 Gunmetal 18 inch rims w/staggered Falken Ziex 512 tires

Drive Train
• Redtop SR-20 Det Motor Swap w/25,000 true miles, Greddy FMIC, Hard Pipes/HKS Down-pipe, SSQV Blow-off Valve
• Custom re-worked stock sr20-DET turbo charger to increase boost and performance
• 5-speed JDM manual transmission, Limited slip rear differential ideal for drifting
• Invidia 3” SS Catback/Random Tech. Hi-flo cat, Exedy 6-puck racing clutch, CR industries Alum. Radiator
• Airinx cold air intake, plus Greddy oil and coolant billet aluminum catch cans
• Nismo and Greddy engine dress-up, with Body-Color valve cover and Carbon Fiber spark plug cover
• Aft-relocated Optima Red-Top battery w/ billet aluminum tie-down (red neon accent lighted)

Stereo/Electronics
• Pioneer AVH-P6600DVD fully motorized 6 ½” TFT LCD In-Dash Touch-Screen head-unit, Memphis Belle amp
#16ST1300D, Farenheit DVD w/aft-mounted 7” Boss BV-7 2nd. TFT Monitor, Cabin-mounted stealthy
antenna system, 14-speaker audio system utilizing: Memphis midranges & tweeters with
Crossovers, and Memphis Studio 10”&12“ sub-woofers
• Front and rear AV Camera monitoring of Engine bay and Backup area (2 Cameras)
• Custom Leather Entertainment center replacing back seat and trunk


BTW, I have no illusions with regard to whose got the fastest/coolest/best tuner on this site. I know it's not me! I also understand very well that this car is nothing compared to many others I have seen. However, I did spend a lot of $$ on this car, and I know we did a credible job on the customizing/restoration of the 240.

All I wanted from this group was a little advice as to the best way to help me re-coup what I can from my investment. I have already resigned myself to losing money on the project, but realize that if it helps me get more financial aid for my daughter, then it will have served a good purpose. Kind of like a sacrifice bunt to bring in another home run and win the game.

We can all sit around criticizing how in an ideal world I could have done this mod or that mod, but that is all 20/20 hindsight. I know that this car runs really sweet, and that someone will have a lot of fun with it buying it at a bargain. We did a real good job at putting it together, and someone will take it and finish customizing it their way.

Thanks again, in advance, for any thoughts, as long as they are constructive and help me get down the road of financing my daughter's education. I'm sure all you hotshots could have done a much better job than I did, but since I'm already admitting that, can we stay on message and get this thing in the hands of someone (at a killer price) who will appreciate it for what it is and what a bargain they got?

Best,

Dave R.

[harrypotter]

Wow I stand corrected! Not my cup of tea, but you put in some work to that car!

Post up some interior pics!

[Broadfield]

Yeah Dave, I will tell you right now that it is not 99% of the members on here "cup of tea". The other bad thing is that a good portion of the money you spent went into body work and paint... which unfortunately you cannot part out paint. Which now seeing the car, I will retract my statement of going with the #2 option and instead just try to sell it as a whole. If most of your $50k was in parts, then I would of stuck with my original plan of #2. The worst part is that you will not get even $20k for it.... maybe not even $15k.

I really wish you the best of luck! I like to see good things happen to good people... and you seem like a really good person/father. Obviously post it up for sale on EVERY 240sx forum imaginable. When I really need to get rid of something I will post it on no less than 15-20 240sx forums. Then I would highly suggest Ebay. This type of styling sometimes will get sold on Ebay for more than what you could pull on an S-chassis forum. Let me know if you need any help with anything.

Toby

[holemilk00]

As someone who has built and sold a half a dozen cars that aren't driftmissiles or track cars, which a well built show/street car will usually cost more than a track car so I don't understand that argument from some people, I'm going to tell you how to approach this with some real numbers. Part your car out, and be prepared to scrap the body when your done and be happy if you end up finding a buyer for it instead. Plan for the worst, hope for the best. Also take the time to go down your "mod" list and research used prices for the parts you can actually take off your car. That will give you a realistic idea of what you can get for the car parted out. Which I'm guessing will be under $20,000 and that's going to be more than what you would ever be able to sell it for because to be honest the styling is outdated. The car looks like it was finished in the late late 90's or possibly the very early 2000's. That styling is just gone man, you'll be hard pressed to find someone that wants it looking like that now a days. But that's just my point of view.

[Adirondackjack]

Toby-

Thanks so much for your words of wisdom. I am not afraid of candid, great advice like you are giving here. Not sure how I am going to proceed cause I have some very serious commitments both business and personal in the next month, but wanted to get a jump on making plans for 2012, the tax year I need the help in. Both my manufacturing business and my other business are slated to do real well in 2012, so I need all the tax deductions I can get. I even thought of doing a fund raising with the car for a friend of mine who lost his house ($150,000 of equity) in the storms we had this spring and summer in the northeast, but not sure quite how that would work.

Again, thanks for your input, Toby. don't worry, I recognize that I will have to find a special buyer for this car, and (now I know) that the venue for this car is definitely not this forum. The weird thing is that when we've gone to car shows we have always come home with lots of awards, and many "tire kickers" have salivated over the car.

Will stay in touch, Toby.

Thanks again,

Dave R.

[holemilk00]

Originally Posted by Adirondackjack

I get how you guys treat each other here now, and won't build any kindness or civility expectations. I actually have some lifelong friends from my other forum experiences. Interestingly, I invented a product which I got a patent for and am now manufacturing and selling both direct on the internet, and through dealers. As a business owner, I would not opt to sell to a crowd like I've just experienced here. I think one of the posters here mentioned that this forum was definitely not warm and fuzzy. I'm not sure that is something to be proud of.

I want to take a minute and address this if I could. And while there are plenty of posters on here that have taken what I"m about to say way to far I want you to give me an open ear for a minute.

This is a 240sx forum as you know, and you should probably know because you're a 240 owner, that this comes with a stigma. We have about 20-30 threads a week that are kids full of pipe dreams and nonsense coming in here and telling lies that would make Pinocchio's nose look like a telephone poll. They come in here and ask for our advice and are full of a million questions about these huge hopes and dreams. Some of us use to take the time to "try" to help these people out, only to have them never do anything about it, and come back on a new forum name and ask the same questions again a month later. It got frustrating and old really fast as you can tell. Then the trolls started, where they come in and ask the same 10-15 questions in every subforum on the boards, making multiple threads for the same purpose with the intent of starting arguments. You can only take so much of this before you get snappy and unwilling to help anyone on a forum that is new until they prove that they have what they say they have, or possess the skills and mind set to achieve these goals. So that slowly turned into everyone that is new getting met with a harsh attitude. With all that still said, I've made some of the better "car" friends I have from this site and met some really great people throughout the years. You just have to take the time to prove that you're not someone here only to start trouble or lie more than a whore at confession. Every week we get 15 year old kids that own their own shop that builds 10000whp honda's and now they have $60k to spend on a 240 and want to put one of the motors out of the space shuttle in it and completely replace everything piece of metal in the chassis with kevlar. <<--And to top it off they type in run on sentences like that. So just forgive the harsh welcoming this forum has, its a product of being a forum dedicated to one of the most fanboy cars in history.

/rant
Shane

[Adirondackjack]

When I was on the job I learned to call a spade a spade, and many times it even saved my life. Notwithstanding your extensive explanation, I can't pretend to endorse the approach here. Even so, some very kind and compassionate souls managed to come to the surface, for which I am grateful. I still stand by my observations as being real and valid to me, and I don't hold any grudges. Neither would I ever want to conduct any of the very successful group buys I've done on some other truly excellent forums on the web. Sorry, I guess I can only give you the unvarnished truth, just like all the rest of your posters who don't work at being "warm and fuzzy". Difference is, all I've changed is my expectations on this forum, not my basic personality or attitude which is always oriented toward helping others who deserve my help. I have always contended that (just like guys like Toby, here) human beings are at their best when they are doing something nice for someone else. More here should try it. I think you will find that you like the feeling. No harm, no foul.

Peace.

Dave R.

[holemilk00]

Something you might want to accept, some of those super nice guys on other forums that are buying in on your group buys and very helpful with everyone's questions, are probably some of the biggest assholes on this site. So you're only fooling yourself. Most of the people around here are only rude HERE. And that's just me being real and giving the unvarnished truth.

[Adirondackjack]

You may well be right.