Godspeed Projects S13/S14 5 LUG Massive Angle Kit - Page 3 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

memphis180sx · 07-13-2011, 04:03 PM

honestly it kinda looks like a copy of the d max angle knuckles witch my buddy has a few sets he imported witch have the s13 sized hub bering so u can run ichiba 5 lug conversion or stock s13 4 lug fronts

s13coupedrfter · 07-13-2011, 04:46 PM

If you run those huge rack spacers wont it stretch the hell out of the steering rack boots?

Tantwoforty · 07-13-2011, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raz0rbladez909

you guys all ride their dicks

I have never bought a godspeed product.
Although i am not against it.
Do not infer that i have.
Do not rope me in with a group of people i am not a part of.
I was simply stating that more than one company can sell the exact same thing.
Is burger king a copy of McDonald's?
that's a knock off big mack son.

raz0rbladez909 · 07-13-2011, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tantwoforty

I have never bought a godspeed product.
Although i am not against it.
Do not infer that i have.
Do not rope me in with a group of people i am not a part of.
I was simply stating that more than one company can sell the exact same thing.
Is burger king a copy of McDonald's?
that's a knock off big mack son.

Cmon mannnnn everybody knows BK is charbroiled

DC Dan MAX USA · 07-13-2011, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellion240sx

how do you qualify for knock off :/ thin line maybe? just wondering.

Heres a good example:

we were the first to make a bent toe rod

This is a knock off

This is NOT a knock off

everyone there is a Zilvia vender

it seems pretty clear. Just put a little effort in to it, its not that hard unless you dont care or know anything about the stuff you sell other than people will buy it from your shady ass if you sell it cheaper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tantwoforty

how many burger places are there in your city?
how many taco places?

The issue is not tacos and burgers or even TV's and cell phones.

when its a blatant copy of one community vender's signature part by another vender, its pretty simple for this community to draw the line there.

We need members, companies and parts that will improve our sport in here and the other stuff can be sorted out on Ebay.

TheRealSy90 · 07-13-2011, 05:15 PM

Not taking any sides but, honestly, how many different ways are there to design a bent toe rod...?

DC Dan MAX USA · 07-13-2011, 05:29 PM

right there are only a few things you can do.

different
design,
shape,
degree of bend,
colors,
materials,
build quality,
rod end,
adjuster,
fork mount,
bearing side spacers,
amount of adjustability,
type of adjustment,
location of adjustment,
strength,
tolerances

TheRealSy90 · 07-13-2011, 05:33 PM

True, but it will still come out looking like a bent toe rod.

Just instigating is all

pbm ftw

Perfect Balance · 07-13-2011, 05:38 PM

If the things you've listed would make it "different", then the Fortune Auto piece isn't a knockoff, and rather a similar piece.

The GodSpeed piece is very clearly meant to look "exactly" like the PBM part. It doesn't obviously, but that is exactly what they were going for.

DC Dan MAX USA · 07-13-2011, 05:52 PM

yes the FA part looks a tiny bit more different than the GS, still an obvious knock off

Let the community choose where the line is drawn, or dont draw any lines, its your community.

Whatever you think benefits you more.

We should put it to a vote in the chat section, Im sure its not cool to talk about this in the advertisers section.

bigs · 07-13-2011, 06:18 PM

DC Dan MAX USA...are you drastically suffering from these other companies and are you on the verge of going out of business?

I see you're coming out with a bunch of new shit for 2011, business must be rough?

PoorMans180SX · 07-13-2011, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raz0rbladez909

Last time I checked none of the mentioned companies in this thread were HUGE corporations. SPL: Produces quite a few products for almost exclusively S/Z chassis, PBM: S/Z Chassis mostly with a few RX/JZ/other drift cars, MA-Motorsports: S-Chassis/GT-R In fact I don't think any of the companies you listed were ever brought up until your own post. AND HKS Pulled out of America, ARC went bankrupt or whatever, and last I saw Greddy USA was still alive and kicking.

We agree here my friend. My point was that none of these companies (even the "big" ones like HKS) are anything compared to multi-national gas and food companies, but people compare the markets like they are. I'm saying that is stupid.

PoorMans180SX · 07-13-2011, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigs

DC Dan MAX USA...are you drastically suffering from these other companies and are you on the verge of going out of business?

I see you're coming out with a bunch of new shit for 2011, business must be rough?

MAX is coming out with new products because they are continuing to innovate and make better, cooler products for us, not because they're super rich, fool. It's called reciprocation. Do you think they would have been able to come out with this new stuff if everyone bought chinaspeed parts?

Om1kron · 07-13-2011, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wangan_cruiser

lol. godspeed let the big boys do the development, design then copy

how much?

I love how everyone on Zilvia has gathered to talk shit on this thread and then goes out to their cars with Varestoen wheels, godspeed bars, and turbos, and knock off body kits.

bigs · 07-13-2011, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

MAX is coming out with new products because they are continuing to innovate and make better, cooler products for us, not because they're super rich, fool. It's called reciprocation. Do you think they would have been able to come out with this new stuff if everyone bought chinaspeed parts?

It takes money to innovate, does it not? And your last question is exactly what I asked. I see all this speculation, but no real figures showing HUGE losses of sales or anything drastic like everyone is making it out to be.

I'm not trying to argue here. I'm just looking for some FACTS instead of a bunch of people whining.

DC Dan MAX USA · 07-13-2011, 06:45 PM

Heres the number to my accountant 1800-ya-right, but seriously....We are not some faceless corporation, we are just a couple of drifters like you who like to make cool parts for our cars and sell them to this community. Thats how we know how to make stuff because we are at the event with you breaking stuff and thinking every day how to make it better.

There is a lot of companies that make parts for our cars that are not here any more. I am lucky enough to not be one of those.

People call me up and they are like man I broke the rod end adjuster on my KPR angle kit and they're out of business so I have to replace the whole thing.
I blew my JIC coilovers and there is no one to rebuild them.
Dont you think that hurts you the end user?

I am aware that our staying power is directly related to where you guys choose to spend your hard earned cash.

Basically I put every dime of profit into development. I am thankful to zilvia for supporting us enough that we even have money to do original parts development.

But I would like to send my kid to school some day, you know have something to show for all my hard work besides legions of companies selling copies of my shit and a cool drift car.

I'll be here working hard on original parts, making parts that you want and need at good prices with good support - hopefully for many more years but thats largely up to you zilvia not me.

hellion240sx · 07-13-2011, 07:23 PM

Wtf ever happened to patents!?!?!?!?

DC Dan MAX USA · 07-13-2011, 07:44 PM

almost useless for small businesses

thats the sport of kings

and we change our designs very fast too

whitepony22 · 07-13-2011, 07:47 PM

That and patents are expensive and can take a while.

bbturbo87 · 07-13-2011, 08:12 PM

lol even to run a single bolt on spacer from george i had to cut inner and outer tie rod. and you end up with close to 50* of angle?

They must be working on installing it still. no way in hell that they will get 4(in total) spacers on any car. dumb fucks.

Only godspeed part i ever bought was a godspeed t28. just because everyone always wondered, i threw it on. worked for 2 weeks. then I just ordered a new s15 turbo.

There is no way in hell, people at godspeed even know what a drift car is. seriously, i want pictures of this kit installed!!

boosted KA24DE · 07-13-2011, 08:12 PM

MOds just need to end this right here and pink everyone for tread jacking with a bunch of bullshit. This is not the place to bash on an advertisers thread. None of this has to do with customer feedback or anything related.
I have purchased products from PBM and GODSPEED none have failed me yet. It comes down to what the customer wants to pay and how much they are willing to risk from cheaper parts. Copy right your parts or get a patent on it AND STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT stolen ideas. Its like going to auto zone and buying a light bulb or a distributor that looks oem but you know its not yet people still put it on their cars. Customers know what they buy and choose to buy it. The wheel can only be invented one time but the design can vary.

hellion240sx · 07-13-2011, 08:14 PM

yeah but if they did have patents you would pput all these smaller copy cat businesses out of business when it's time to pay you since you have the patent. But your right if its always changing then no use... Unless you find a loophole that you can say it's version 2 of previous design. I don't know how it works. hopefully you get what I'm saying.

Advertiser Announcements and Feedback This is where vendors can make announcements about upcoming promotions, events, items, etc. Vendors may also create threads here for the purpose of market research or other customer feedback.

mrchomponthis · 07-13-2011, 10:17 PM

I have emailed many "suspension dealers/designers/makers/vendors," and asked for tensile strength tests. I have yet to hear from any of them so i consider them all in it for the money. Yep that's to you VENDORS!

Tantwoforty · 07-13-2011, 11:09 PM

if i made a dope ass part, and some doucher copied it i would be flattered kind of lol
then there's who whole losing money thing and then i would be pissed.
that's really what it comes down to..
losing money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boosted KA24DE

MOds just need to end this right here and pink everyone for tread jacking with a bunch of bullshit. This is not the place to bash on an advertisers thread. None of this has to do with customer feedback or anything related.
I have purchased products from PBM and GODSPEED none have failed me yet. It comes down to what the customer wants to pay and how much they are willing to risk from cheaper parts. Copy right your parts or get a patent on it AND STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT stolen ideas. Its like going to auto zone and buying a light bulb or a distributor that looks oem but you know its not yet people still put it on their cars. Customers know what they buy and choose to buy it. The wheel can only be invented one time but the design can vary.

I agree, godspeed has always been cool to me when i worked at TekOne
And you other advertisers, I'm not sure it looks good to come bash another advertiser on here.. It kind of makes you look pathetic and unprofessional. I understand how you feel, but like boosted said above, do something about it or shut up.
Im running max rods right now. I support everyone <3
Im out of here. And plan on running a 18g very soon ken

wh0aitznic0 · 07-13-2011, 11:20 PM

Lol looks like GaySpeed winged it with the design.

"Let's just copy three companies' designs, put them in a packaged 'kit' and call it original! But let's completely suck in our attempt."

Bry · 07-14-2011, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrchomponthis

I have emailed many "suspension dealers/designers/makers/vendors," and asked for tensile strength tests. I have yet to hear from any of them so i consider them all in it for the money. Yep that's to you VENDORS!

Such destructive tests are unnecessary, and out of reach financially for many smaller companies that cater predominantly to niche markets.

Tensile strength is irrelevant for the majority of these parts, as pretty much the only time something goes wrong is from an actual impact or shock (ie. a pot hole)

Project3328 · 07-14-2011, 02:26 AM

Im gonna buy these!!!

Brockstar · 07-14-2011, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Project3328

Im gonna buy these!!!

We all anxiously await your "why don't my wheels turn the same amount in both directions?" thread.

But seriously, all other arguments aside, look at the track record for Chinese replica parts that are cast. Greddy replica oil pans? Most all of them leaked because the metal was too porous and weak, which is what made them cheaper. Greddy replica intake manifolds? Most are highly unfinished inside and don't even accept factory hardware accurately. This points to loose manufacturing tolerances and/or bad castings.

And now we have a cast part from China that is meant to bear a lot of load. I wouldn't buy this product simply from a safety standpoint. Also, where is the information on how much angle increase this product provides? What is the reasoning behind the threaded extension spacers? Perhaps that's a cheaper attemp at duplicating the Driftworks solution of offset rack spacers, except straight ones are cheaper to make? Honestly, who knows.

I'm not getting into the replica vs original debate, just pointing out concerns of quality and function.

!Zar! · 07-14-2011, 10:18 AM

qq more.

all of you.

Steinkrunk · 07-14-2011, 11:22 AM

Alittle late for a comeback but the burger/taco/tv/phone argument is moot. You bet you're ass is BK came out with a burger that was EXACTLY the same as a big mac there would be one hell of a lawsuit. All those companies have their own version of a burger/taco/tv/phone. Just like SPL, PBM, ikeya, etc. all have their OWN versions of parts for specific vehicles.

And dont try to rope replacement OEM parts in the same category as this. I feel as though you guys are missing the point and don't even realize what you are actually arguing should happen.

On one side we have people that want to support innovation. The people that know if we support these niche companies then we will only get better and better products for our investments. The more money we give to the innovators, the better materials/research/pricing they will be able to give back to us.

The other side I feel are the kids that copied off of the smart kid in high school. You are saying "it's a business" and that if one company can make a knockoff for super cheap then the original company should have been able to make it just as cheap so it's their fault for charging too much. So in reality you are saying that you would like all these aftermarket companies to use the cheapest metals/bearing/hardware they can find and not test any of their products before selling them. I can't wait for the day I can buy a set of FLCA's for $30 and when I try to bolt them up they aren't long enough, don't have the right shank and when I eventually do get them to work shatter into pieces when I drive two feet down the road. That will be awesome.

I can't really say I haven't bought a knockoff before because I have a set of XXR's. But I have learned from my mistakes, and I'm trying to move in the right direction. No more used parts and no more knockoff b/s. My hard earned money is going to the innovators, no the imitators.

And to the d-bag saying we should all be pinked WTF is wrong with you? This dude created this thread to try to start hype for this blatant copy of a product and it backfired on him. Now he hasn't posted any replies to any of our accusations because we're right. I feel bad because this dude is a middle man and he's just trying to make a buck off some broke-asses.

Still waiting for a mod to come in and make the right decisions and close this thread and ban knockoffs from zilvia. Like Dan said, if I want a knockoff I can go to eBay were there are knockoffs of knockoffs everywhere. I think of zilvia as one of the better s-chassis forums but unfortunately most of the members are fanboys that just want to look like a cool dorifto hellaflush master for as little money as possible.

This is my last rant in this thread, I have gotten my point across and I'll now wait for zilvia's response. If this thread isn't deleted by the end of the week I will delete my account and find a forum that supports its community.

07-13-2011, 05:29 PM	#67
DC Dan MAX USA Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,478 Trader Rating: (79) Feedback Score: 79 reviews	right there are only a few things you can do. different design, shape, degree of bend, colors, materials, build quality, rod end, adjuster, fork mount, bearing side spacers, amount of adjustability, type of adjustment, location of adjustment, strength, tolerances __________________ How To order: You can order directly from our zilvia advertiser threads. When you add to cart, you get an instant shipping estimate, & the cart will remember all of your items as you move between forum threads and our website www.poweredbymax.net until you remove them or check out. I can also calculate estimates manually for you but the cart's estimates are way faster and more accurate. Order Inquiry: IM me your real name and paypal address. Thanks for your business!

07-13-2011, 05:52 PM	#70
DC Dan MAX USA Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,478 Trader Rating: (79) Feedback Score: 79 reviews	yes the FA part looks a tiny bit more different than the GS, still an obvious knock off Let the community choose where the line is drawn, or dont draw any lines, its your community. Whatever you think benefits you more. We should put it to a vote in the chat section, Im sure its not cool to talk about this in the advertisers section. __________________ How To order: You can order directly from our zilvia advertiser threads. When you add to cart, you get an instant shipping estimate, & the cart will remember all of your items as you move between forum threads and our website www.poweredbymax.net until you remove them or check out. I can also calculate estimates manually for you but the cart's estimates are way faster and more accurate. Order Inquiry: IM me your real name and paypal address. Thanks for your business!

07-13-2011, 06:45 PM	#76
DC Dan MAX USA Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,478 Trader Rating: (79) Feedback Score: 79 reviews	Heres the number to my accountant 1800-ya-right, but seriously....We are not some faceless corporation, we are just a couple of drifters like you who like to make cool parts for our cars and sell them to this community. Thats how we know how to make stuff because we are at the event with you breaking stuff and thinking every day how to make it better. There is a lot of companies that make parts for our cars that are not here any more. I am lucky enough to not be one of those. People call me up and they are like man I broke the rod end adjuster on my KPR angle kit and they're out of business so I have to replace the whole thing. I blew my JIC coilovers and there is no one to rebuild them. Dont you think that hurts you the end user? I am aware that our staying power is directly related to where you guys choose to spend your hard earned cash. Basically I put every dime of profit into development. I am thankful to zilvia for supporting us enough that we even have money to do original parts development. But I would like to send my kid to school some day, you know have something to show for all my hard work besides legions of companies selling copies of my shit and a cool drift car. I'll be here working hard on original parts, making parts that you want and need at good prices with good support - hopefully for many more years but thats largely up to you zilvia not me. __________________ How To order: You can order directly from our zilvia advertiser threads. When you add to cart, you get an instant shipping estimate, & the cart will remember all of your items as you move between forum threads and our website www.poweredbymax.net until you remove them or check out. I can also calculate estimates manually for you but the cart's estimates are way faster and more accurate. Order Inquiry: IM me your real name and paypal address. Thanks for your business! Last edited by DC Dan MAX USA; 07-13-2011 at 07:21 PM..

07-13-2011, 07:23 PM	#77
hellion240sx Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NOLA Age: 42 Posts: 1,514 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Wtf ever happened to patents!?!?!?!? __________________ R.I.P. KAIN. YOU'LL ALWAYS BE BY MY SIDE! 240 addict miata addict

07-13-2011, 07:44 PM	#78
DC Dan MAX USA Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,478 Trader Rating: (79) Feedback Score: 79 reviews	almost useless for small businesses thats the sport of kings and we change our designs very fast too __________________ How To order: You can order directly from our zilvia advertiser threads. When you add to cart, you get an instant shipping estimate, & the cart will remember all of your items as you move between forum threads and our website www.poweredbymax.net until you remove them or check out. I can also calculate estimates manually for you but the cart's estimates are way faster and more accurate. Order Inquiry: IM me your real name and paypal address. Thanks for your business!

07-13-2011, 04:03 PM	#61
memphis180sx BANNED Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: where you wish u were Posts: 355 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	honestly it kinda looks like a copy of the d max angle knuckles witch my buddy has a few sets he imported witch have the s13 sized hub bering so u can run ichiba 5 lug conversion or stock s13 4 lug fronts

07-13-2011, 04:46 PM	#62
s13coupedrfter Zilvia Addict Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Socal Posts: 839 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	If you run those huge rack spacers wont it stretch the hell out of the steering rack boots?

07-13-2011, 05:15 PM	#66
TheRealSy90 Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Maricopa, AZ Age: 33 Posts: 7,721 Trader Rating: (10) Feedback Score: 10 reviews	Not taking any sides but, honestly, how many different ways are there to design a bent toe rod...?

07-13-2011, 05:33 PM	#68
TheRealSy90 Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Maricopa, AZ Age: 33 Posts: 7,721 Trader Rating: (10) Feedback Score: 10 reviews	True, but it will still come out looking like a bent toe rod. Just instigating is all pbm ftw

07-13-2011, 05:38 PM	#69
Perfect Balance Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Virginia Age: 33 Posts: 397 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	If the things you've listed would make it "different", then the Fortune Auto piece isn't a knockoff, and rather a similar piece. The GodSpeed piece is very clearly meant to look "exactly" like the PBM part. It doesn't obviously, but that is exactly what they were going for.

07-13-2011, 06:18 PM	#71
bigs Nissanaholic! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Atlanta Age: 33 Posts: 1,674 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	DC Dan MAX USA...are you drastically suffering from these other companies and are you on the verge of going out of business? I see you're coming out with a bunch of new shit for 2011, business must be rough?

07-13-2011, 07:47 PM	#79
whitepony22 Zilvia Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Georgia Posts: 170 Trader Rating: (11) Feedback Score: 11 reviews	That and patents are expensive and can take a while.

07-13-2011, 08:12 PM	#80
bbturbo87 Leaky Injector Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Houston Posts: 90 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	lol even to run a single bolt on spacer from george i had to cut inner and outer tie rod. and you end up with close to 50* of angle? They must be working on installing it still. no way in hell that they will get 4(in total) spacers on any car. dumb fucks. Only godspeed part i ever bought was a godspeed t28. just because everyone always wondered, i threw it on. worked for 2 weeks. then I just ordered a new s15 turbo. There is no way in hell, people at godspeed even know what a drift car is. seriously, i want pictures of this kit installed!!

07-13-2011, 08:12 PM	#81
boosted KA24DE Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 328 Trader Rating: (22) Feedback Score: 22 reviews	MOds just need to end this right here and pink everyone for tread jacking with a bunch of bullshit. This is not the place to bash on an advertisers thread. None of this has to do with customer feedback or anything related. I have purchased products from PBM and GODSPEED none have failed me yet. It comes down to what the customer wants to pay and how much they are willing to risk from cheaper parts. Copy right your parts or get a patent on it AND STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT stolen ideas. Its like going to auto zone and buying a light bulb or a distributor that looks oem but you know its not yet people still put it on their cars. Customers know what they buy and choose to buy it. The wheel can only be invented one time but the design can vary. __________________ JDM Fashion isn't always good!

07-13-2011, 08:14 PM	#82
hellion240sx Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NOLA Age: 42 Posts: 1,514 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	yeah but if they did have patents you would pput all these smaller copy cat businesses out of business when it's time to pay you since you have the patent. But your right if its always changing then no use... Unless you find a loophole that you can say it's version 2 of previous design. I don't know how it works. hopefully you get what I'm saying. Advertiser Announcements and Feedback This is where vendors can make announcements about upcoming promotions, events, items, etc. Vendors may also create threads here for the purpose of market research or *other customer feedback*. __________________ R.I.P. KAIN. YOU'LL ALWAYS BE BY MY SIDE! 240 addict miata addict

07-13-2011, 10:17 PM	#83
mrchomponthis Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: fghjghjfg Age: 36 Posts: 877 Trader Rating: (11) Feedback Score: 11 reviews	I have emailed many "suspension dealers/designers/makers/vendors," and asked for tensile strength tests. I have yet to hear from any of them so i consider them all in it for the money. Yep that's to you VENDORS! __________________ CHOMPONWHAT?

07-14-2011, 02:26 AM	#87
Project3328 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Irvine Age: 40 Posts: 741 Trader Rating: (5) Rides Gallery: Project3328 Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Im gonna buy these!!!

07-14-2011, 10:18 AM	#89
!Zar! Post Whore! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Korea Posts: 14,579 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	qq more. all of you. __________________

07-14-2011, 11:22 AM	#90
Steinkrunk Zilvia Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Rehoboth, MA Age: 36 Posts: 281 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Alittle late for a comeback but the burger/taco/tv/phone argument is moot. You bet you're ass is BK came out with a burger that was EXACTLY the same as a big mac there would be one hell of a lawsuit. All those companies have their own version of a burger/taco/tv/phone. Just like SPL, PBM, ikeya, etc. all have their OWN versions of parts for specific vehicles. And dont try to rope replacement OEM parts in the same category as this. I feel as though you guys are missing the point and don't even realize what you are actually arguing should happen. On one side we have people that want to support innovation. The people that know if we support these niche companies then we will only get better and better products for our investments. The more money we give to the innovators, the better materials/research/pricing they will be able to give back to us. The other side I feel are the kids that copied off of the smart kid in high school. You are saying "it's a business" and that if one company can make a knockoff for super cheap then the original company should have been able to make it just as cheap so it's their fault for charging too much. So in reality you are saying that you would like all these aftermarket companies to use the cheapest metals/bearing/hardware they can find and not test any of their products before selling them. I can't wait for the day I can buy a set of FLCA's for $30 and when I try to bolt them up they aren't long enough, don't have the right shank and when I eventually do get them to work shatter into pieces when I drive two feet down the road. That will be awesome. I can't really say I haven't bought a knockoff before because I have a set of XXR's. But I have learned from my mistakes, and I'm trying to move in the right direction. No more used parts and no more knockoff b/s. My hard earned money is going to the innovators, no the imitators. And to the d-bag saying we should all be pinked WTF is wrong with you? This dude created this thread to try to start hype for this blatant copy of a product and it backfired on him. Now he hasn't posted any replies to any of our accusations because we're right. I feel bad because this dude is a middle man and he's just trying to make a buck off some broke-asses. Still waiting for a mod to come in and make the right decisions and close this thread and ban knockoffs from zilvia. Like Dan said, if I want a knockoff I can go to eBay were there are knockoffs of knockoffs everywhere. I think of zilvia as one of the better s-chassis forums but unfortunately most of the members are fanboys that just want to look like a cool dorifto hellaflush master for as little money as possible. This is my last rant in this thread, I have gotten my point across and I'll now wait for zilvia's response. If this thread isn't deleted by the end of the week I will delete my account and find a forum that supports its community.