This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

[SicBastard]

So the larger your initial roll couple, the less (percentage wise) it will change in cornering?! Crazy... I never knew there was even a slight advantage to a larger roll couple!

[GripTerror]

meh i weight lift, i dont have hand strength problems. Most people who drive my car with a 330mm thought it was 'heavy' but I find it too light still ha ha ha ha... Driving 'regular' cars on the other hand feels like paper that I can rip into pieces lmao

[SoSideways]

Originally Posted by GripTerror

meh i weight lift, i dont have hand strength problems. Most people who drive my car with a 330mm thought it was 'heavy' but I find it too light still ha ha ha ha... Driving 'regular' cars on the other hand feels like paper that I can rip into pieces lmao

Sounds like a personal problem to me.

[GripTerror]

I just got back from the gym hahahahahaha feels good doing it >

[Def]

Originally Posted by SicBastard

So the larger your initial roll couple, the less (percentage wise) it will change in cornering?! Crazy... I never knew there was even a slight advantage to a larger roll couple!

I wouldn't call it an advantage so much as a side effect of a larger(to an extent) roll couple. Believe me, there really isn't anything good about a roll couple a few feet below the ground like most cars on Zilvia.

Plus when arm angles start getting really severe the roll couple starts moving a TON under cornering(mostly laterally). So there's definitely a sweet spot where the percentage increase is small enough to make the car consistent, but the overall roll couple is still fairly small. It never involves the roll center a huge amount away from the CG.

[95KA-Turbo]

Got half of my front suspension put back together. I still need to deal with the driver's side and the brakes.

The new spindles are cut better then the first ones were, and I was able to get all of the holes done at my friend's Dad's machine shop, who told me I could get stuff made for super cheap if someone designs something worthwhile enough to be actually produced.



No over-centering if I recall the information right. I was also able to clearance the LCA so the rotor no longer hits it, I think I may have taken enough off to put the 10mm spacer I had made in it, so I am going to try that out.

[SoSideways]

Yeah, I didn't clearance my FLCAs enough, apparently, as I kept hearing rubbing noises when I would turn the steering wheel.

This is what I saw last night.



Oh well.

At least the rotors (this happened on both sides) rubbed the arms and gave me a clear idea of where they were rubbing, so I was able to take off more material in the places where they rubbed.

Hopefully this time I took off enough material to not rub anymore... but if not, I'll have just to wait and see where I'm rubbing still.

[PoorMans180SX]

Hahahahahha, it's like wheel fitment.

"Yo bro, so I was trying to get my FLCA's real flush the other day, but I kept having to grind them because they would rub at full lock."

95KA-turbo, that looks like a decent amount of overcentering to me. The side of the ruler pointing in towards your car should be on the other side of the tie rod.

Like this:

[codyace]

they said to scribe where it hits, not machine just teasin!

[SoSideways]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Hahahahahha, it's like wheel fitment.

"Yo bro, so I was trying to get my FLCA's real flush the other day, but I kept having to grind them because they would rub at full lock."

I didn't even get to full lock and it rubbed lol

I think actually, it didn't rub at full lock, but it did rub on the way to full lock hahaha

95KA-turbo, that looks like a decent amount of overcentering to me. The side of the ruler pointing in towards your car should be on the other side of the tie rod.

Like this:

Yes. 95KA-Turbo, you have mad overcentering. You should notice it when you go to turn the wheel to full lock via the steering wheel, while the car is in the air, and when you try to turn it back towards the center, you'll feel like it's kinda stuck there, unless you give it a pretty good tug, then it kinda feels like it goes over a notch and you can turn it smoothly again.

Originally Posted by codyace

they said to scribe where it hits, not machine just teasin!

I'm working on my new line of weight reduction Z32 rotors, seeing as they're heavy as hell

[GripTerror]

lol if ONLY that would be the new standarrd of 'flush fitment' on zilvia...

[Def]

Originally Posted by SoSideways

I'm working on my new line of weight reduction Z32 rotors, seeing as they're heavy as hell

[zilvia]hey, if the car can continue scraping around town with a groove machined through the rotor, then it didn't need to be there in the first place[/zilvia]

[95KA-Turbo]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Hahahahahha, it's like wheel fitment.

"Yo bro, so I was trying to get my FLCA's real flush the other day, but I kept having to grind them because they would rub at full lock."

95KA-turbo, that looks like a decent amount of overcentering to me. The side of the ruler pointing in towards your car should be on the other side of the tie rod.

Like this:

Ah shit...I didn't realize that picture was on the other side of the tie rod.

It felt pretty smooth turning it back and fourth. I only have one side together right now though, so I am going to get the other side together and make an assessment as to what is going on with it....I will probably have to make a bump stop or something.

[Jonnie Fraz]

Originally Posted by 95KA-Turbo

Ah shit...I didn't realize that picture was on the other side of the tie rod.

It felt pretty smooth turning it back and fourth. I only have one side together right now though, so I am going to get the other side together and make an assessment as to what is going on with it....I will probably have to make a bump stop or something.

Can you move the rack forward? Also you might find once you get it all done your tire may rub the frame and or the TC rod. If I remember correctly you have some pretty aggressive offsets so it may not be an issue.

[VIPDRFT]

Originally Posted by DC Dan MAX USA

according to Kawabata, Nakamura and others getting backwards initiations, having the car slightly up in the front, and down in the rear is part of the formula.

How much lower/higher are we talking? One inch or like a few MM's?

[PoorMans180SX]

That's probably because raising the front made the roll center come back to less than 5000ft below the earths surface, thus improving performance.

[95KA-Turbo]

Originally Posted by Jonnie Fraz

Can you move the rack forward? Also you might find once you get it all done your tire may rub the frame and or the TC rod. If I remember correctly you have some pretty aggressive offsets so it may not be an issue.

I am running a 25mm spacer on my 10+7 up front, so it is a 10 -18 effectively, so I have plenty of inner clearance.

The old knuckles bound a little lock to lock, but it was only the last little tiny bit of a turn that would do it. With the one side on it didn't feel like it was binding, so I will see how it feels when the other side is on. I still have 7mm spacers on the inner tie rods, so I will take those off first before I do anything else and see if that helps.

[swiftmini]

Originally Posted by VIPDRFT

How much lower/higher are we talking? One inch or like a few MM's?

Iirc nakamura raised his front end 10-15mm. Although he didn't say how much rake he was running before.

[swiftmini]

95ka-turbo:

In the pic it looks like the rule is in line with the ends of the studs, not inline with the balljoint centreline. If the lines are projected through the balljoints properly, by my eye it looks like its just overcentring at that point. How much caster do you run?

[VIPDRFT]

Originally Posted by swiftmini

Iirc nakamura raised his front end 10-15mm. Although he didn't say how much rake he was running before.

From pics I've seen of Nakamura's S13, it appears that he runs a 17/18 stagger and is higher in the front by more than a few mm's. The stagger makes it hard to tell how much though. Could be an optical illusion. It looks like he has a good amount of reverse rake in drift as well.

[PoorMans180SX]

It's also funny because Nakamura could care less about suspension geometry.

Fix your front roll center, and you won't have to run ghey reverse stagger. Save that for the JDM fanbois.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

It's also funny because Nakamura could care less about suspension geometry.

Fix your front roll center, and you won't have to run ghey reverse stagger. Save that for the JDM fanbois.

LOLLLLLLLLLL

This is most certainly true. I'll never understand some's fascination with these japanese drift guys...they hold them to such a false podium it's almost sickening.

[conrad_s13.5]

^ werd..........

[95KA-Turbo]

Originally Posted by swiftmini

95ka-turbo:

In the pic it looks like the rule is in line with the ends of the studs, not inline with the balljoint centreline. If the lines are projected through the balljoints properly, by my eye it looks like its just overcentring at that point. How much caster do you run?

I am not sure exactly how much caster I am running, but I have like 1/3 of an inch of thread showing on the heim joint side of my cusco tension rods. I might shorten up the arm a few more turns.

I drew a line through the center of the bearings rather then through the studs, and it is definitely a different angle.




I will be messing with the other side tonight, so I will get it all even and see how the steering fees.

[DC Dan MAX USA]

It really does not matter if its centered or over center, either way its not good.

Its pretty much in a straight line which is bad, wait till your car's weight is on it and you initiate at speed and you hit max angle - its gonna be hard as hell to turn that out of its steering lock, and its gonna completely screw you up.

Whats the story behind the green knuckle that angles the end joint into the LCA?

[nathanong87]

Originally Posted by VIPDRFT

i'm pretty sure the key to backwards entries are pink crocs...haha so awesome

[95KA-Turbo]

Originally Posted by DC Dan MAX USA

It really does not matter if its centered or over center, either way its not good.

Its pretty much in a straight line which is bad, wait till your car's weight is on it and you initiate at speed and you hit max angle - its gonna be hard as hell to turn that out of its steering lock, and its gonna completely screw you up.

Whats the story behind the green knuckle that angles the end joint into the LCA?

My friend made the knuckles. Are you saying I could get the same angle, but have proper alignment with the tie rod if I had a different angle on the tie rod pick up on the spindle?

[swiftmini]

[quote1288095519=Martin]
Drift Tengoku, May, 2009. Pg169~175

Tanaka Saimi from PARADE and Nakamura Naoki from BURST are two of the most looked drifters from Kansai(southern part of Japan)area right now. Not only they have been placing in bunch of local drifting contests but ranking high on Msc and D1stree legal. They are team mates when it comes to D1SL because of the same sponsor backing but for MSC and local contests, they are rivals....we decided to take a closer look at both of them and compare their drift cars and their life style.

BURST Nakamura Naoki
age: 27years old
Heights:170cm
weight:75kg
Occupation: landscaping, broker
hobby:just drifting
girlfriend? i'm married.two kids
First time? when I was 15
First drift? when I was 17, my older friend took me to the mountains in his kei truck. I thought it was "cool"
How many times do you drift in a month? 2~3tmes to the mountains in my silvia,2~3times to the track. I also drift kei truck on dirt for 5~6 times a month.
How much do you spent a month for drifting. $600~$700,thats for gas mostly.
What are you good at when you work on your car. changing Exhaust manifolds. I use to change the exhaust every month and use to take off manifold like at least once a month. I can change the stock exaust manifold on the SR in 40min!
First coverage on Drift heaven magazine? summer of 2005. when you guys did the "shakotan special with a~bo~moon"

What do you think of Tanaka's drifting?
Complete opposite of me, he uses his head. when he is on, he is scary good.

Machine check....
"I like s13, because to me s13 is gangster looking" This chassis is Naoki's third one and even the front end is actually been hit really hard and has another chassis's front end welded and strengthen. Naoki believes that s13's weak point is weakness of an old chassis. Adding roll cage, stitch welding the engine bay, and minor support bars around the fire wall keeps his S13 the way he wants. "One year ago I raised his front end about 1.5cm and found out that the car feels better for my driving style, so when people asks for advice I tell them to create a car that understeers. 10mm toe out in the front, 2º negative camber in the rear."

Front Federal RSR 235 40 17
Rear Federal ss595/kenda 265 35 18
D-max suspension
section arms
Risky knuckles
TD06SH-20G turbo


PARADE Tanaka seimi
age: 31
Heights: 163cm
weight: 55kg
occupation: gas station manager
hobby: karaoke,outdoor
girlfriend? haven't had one for 2~3 years
first time? summer of sophomore year
first drift?when I was 19, in ca18 NA silvia.
How many times do you drift a month? I go to the mountains once a month, 5~6 times a month to the track.
How much do you spend a month for drifting? $800~2000. mostly tires and gas. when I have extra, I save it for D1SL.
what are you good at when you work on your car? I can change the diff in 30 min. I've done it at the track way too many times.

What do you think of Nakamura's drift? I don't like it but he is extremely good! his style looks rough but actually a really define driver. He seem to have a really good reflex.

Machine check....

SMS body...(seimi mawaranai system=seimi never spin system) Seimi believes that his old twisted cracks every where body is good for holding extreme angle while drifting. He says that "since my chases is so old and crashed so many times that every time I jack up the car, the car feels little bit different. so when the car doesn't feel right, I loosen every suspension bolts and retightening them,,this helps a lot. I don't even have roll cage in my car." "I believe that when the chases is weak, it acts like big a rubber band,,, giving you more room for extreme angle etc.." He also says that raising the front of the car by 1cm gave him better feelings. "You basically setting more weight in the back for traction and slide the front end more."

Front federal RS-R 235 40 17 (some times ss595 235 40 17)
Rear federal ss595 255 35 18
Dmax suspention
Yanak arms (Toes at 0 Camber is at 1 and a half to 2 and a half depending on the track)
Ryo knouckles
Nismo 6 speed tranny (final gear of 4.1)
T300 turbo+Tomei 265º cams

[/quote1288095519]

Sorry if I come across as a fan boi, but that's just because iam haha

I find it hard to believe that he runs that much rake just too look cool, it must be for a reason cose it looks utter shite.by the look of those pics it would appear that he is running a good couple inches of rake, which as stated before probably helps with rc height more than anything else

My car needs 80mm of rc correction just too get the rc at ground level. 10mm correction to place it 70mm above ground. And that would still be 5.5 inches below CofG.

[swiftmini]

Originally Posted by 95KA-Turbo

I am not sure exactly how much caster I am running, but I have like 1/3 of an inch of thread showing on the heim joint side of my cusco tension rods. I might shorten up the arm a few more turns.

I drew a line through the center of the bearings rather then through the studs, and it is definitely a different angle.

On my car and setup I found that i am further away from going over centre at 6* caster than when I was running 9* caster.

I can get you the length of a stock tension rod if you want an idea where you are right now!!

[s14unimog]

Not that I'm entirely on topic, at this point in the discussion, but I thought I would add some pictures of the bump stops I've added to my flexes. I'm running the higher rates (8kgf/mm front - 7kgf/mm rear) and am not quite as slammed as some of you. I'm still working on the setup but the car has a good alignment and is quite controllable at high speed cornering and braking

The Tein bump stops are under the dust boot. These extensions are 2.5" long and have an interference fit with the strut so that they stay at the top. I have ~2-2.5" of travel in the rear with a 245/40/18 on slightly pulled fenders. I'm running about -1* rear camber - 18x9.5 +20







This is full compression, sitting on the stops with about 3/8" clearance with the inner fender


All together


Here you can see the rubbing I was talking about. It only happens when I three wheel to traverse an entrance or something.