There goes the First Ammendment

[Matej]

Originally Posted by RJF

OK, name a better country.

And if we are so f!@^&d up, why does everyone in the world want to come here?

Show me a country where educated people still want to come to America.

This isn't the 1940s.

[JeremyR]

better country is an opinion, there is no definate better country, never will be.

personally i feel canada is a way better country.
universial health car, very low crime and homicide rate. when have you ever seen canada go to war with a country or have a terrorist attack?? hmm?

you act like everyone wants to come to america and no where else. there are people who immigrate to other countries as well. im sorry all of our media is biased towards making people "blind patriots" yeah lets all just believe everything we hear on the news and our leaders tell us. no one ever lies. ever. EVER. its honestly not worth my time or effort to argue with you over politics. i come to zilvia to get away from all political hype not see more of it. people need to get lives.
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[98s14inaz]

Originally Posted by Matej

Obviously it isn't the American way, as even America turns to extreme socialist practices when times get tough.
Let me make it clear that I do not agree with the government buying up banks.
However, as I've already stated, I would be all up for paying higher taxes and having a government funded "free" health care system. That goes back to having a working balance of government involvement in certain areas, where it would actually be beneficial to the people. Socialism and having a smart government involvement are two different things.

I should have said "was". You're right.

[98s14inaz]

Originally Posted by xdarkrune

every been to hicksville nowhere in the bible belt?? THATS ALL THEY DO

"real men love jesus" bumper sticker right next to the gun rack in the back of the truck.

stores all closed on sundays.
gun shops on every street.

HAH.

and i LOVE the fact republicans always bring up terrorists or terror as a way to scare people. and i love the fact they always refer to the news as "the liberal media" when rupert murdoch, ceo of news corp. AND A REPUBLICAN owns most of the worlds media outlets.
News Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

there's a list of everything he controls. how ignorant do you have to be to not see that the repubs control most media in the united states. rupert murdoch, an australian, runs the media and our country. he can put whatever the hell he wants on the news, and most of the retards in this country would believe it! they do anyway. american politics are corrupted, dems and repubs. believe me, if i ahd the money and a job in a different country i would move in a heartbeat. canada, england, australia, wherever. people need to stop acting like america is the best country in the world and that capitalisim is so great. its capitalisim and closeminded thinking that got america so fucked up in the first place.

That is an exaggeration. I've lived in Tennessee and Alabama and it isn't that bad. Yes they are hicks but those people are the backbone of our country. Good people. A few douchbags don't represent an entire population. It's like me saying all minorities steal cars.

[40daws]

Barack is also going to require all forums posters with negative posts about him to advertise thier penis size on the back of there jeans. Tight jeans. Male camel toe tight. And muscle shirts. And carry a little McCain and Palin doll,along with a fanny pack. This is only is he wins. He is. So be ready.

[40daws]

Poor white trash manager: I'm afraid if Obama wins,someone will kill him and then that will start a race war.
Janitor: You ever notice when someone talks about about a race war,they are always white ?
PWTM: Uhhhh...?
Janitor: White people say they are not scared,or fear a certain race of folks,but whats with all the race war talk ?
PWTM: Blarggg..arrgg...Mhh..I'll be in my office.

[SexPanda]

lol this thread is win...

You know what will happen if barack becomes president?
Not shit
You know what will happen if McCain becomes president?
Not shit.

It's all the same smoke and mirrors. Im voting for McCain simply because Obama is far too liberal, but it really doesnt matter.

[cc4usmc]

Originally Posted by RJF

OK, name a better country.

And if we are so f!@^&d up, why does everyone in the world want to come here?

I hate posts like this. You're pretty much saying as long as we're better then the rest, it's ok. This country might be an improvement for others, but what about us?

[KA24DESOneThree]

Originally Posted by Matej

Screw the Constitution.
Yes I said it.
I can't believe people in 2008 want to live by a document written over 200 years ago, back when times were completely different and it was written to suit the needs of the people of that time.
The Constitution is obsolete and needs to be overhauled. Even though I definitely do not trust the current government to rewrite it.

People like you disgust me. Don't try to change my country because you don't like it. The Founders set rules and, if we had lived by them, people would be better off now. We broke them and here we are. We don't change them except by very strict guidelines, which were abused... and here we are.

You want universal health care? Go to Canada or France or Germany. It isn't in the Constitution, and health care back then consisted of a rag soaked in brandy, bed rest, and some luck. You're blessed to have this much access to medical necessities.

America was founded on self-reliance. You may want handouts, high taxes, and increased regulation, but you want another country, not mine. The American Dream pays off, but not if you're a lazy idiot. You need to work, you need to fail, you need to pick yourself up and rise above to live the dream. If you think it's unfair, life's unfair.

Neoliberalism makes me sick. Every cent I donate to political causes will go toward causes to reverse the spread of the cancer and bring down the bloat.

[svensko]

Originally Posted by SexPanda

lol this thread is win...

You know what will happen if barack becomes president?
Not shit
You know what will happen if McCain becomes president?
Not shit.

It's all the same smoke and mirrors. Im voting for McCain simply because Obama is far too liberal, but it really doesnt matter.

I'm voting for Obama simply because McCain/Palin are far too conservative.

[iwishiwas-all*]

gabe calls it now it will never happen .

[TheWolf]

This is about USA being #1. The second place plaque is in the ladies room.

OMG canada being #1... HAHAHA at what? being a big pussy nation. Free healthcare in exchange for tarrifs, taxes, and shitty weather. What a deal! Why don't you move from cali to canada and live there instead. Everything you buy from the US up there costs $8 + 12-15% in Tax just to get it shipped across the border. Throw duty on top if it wasn't made in america.

[RJF]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

You want universal health care? Go to Canada or France or Germany.

Universal health care. You don't even have to go to Canada or Europe. It doesn't even work here.

Hawaii had enacted "universal coverage" for children through HMSA and that program was cancelled after just 11 months and coverage for 2000 kids.

Crisis in Hawaii Healthcare

[murda-c]

So i need to unite the planet so we can stop spending all our resources on war and start spending them on healthcare and galactic colonization?

I'll get right on it.

[Phlip]

You know guys, now that you mention it...
I think I dislike the idea of a liberal president, especially a black one.
I am voting for a Maverick who has mastered the fine arts of hypocrisy and throwing rock and hiding his hands, but puts country first and hoping that his fuckton of horrible ideas actually work somehow.

[RJF]

What's their definition of "rich"?

[WanganRunner]

The right needs to stop being so alarmed at this prospect.

This will ONLY happen if the Democrats attain a super-majority, i.e. 60 seats in the Senate. This is HIGHLY unlikely, so stop stressing out about it.

All that will happen is a house majority, a Dem President, and a Senate majority that is NOT filibuster-proof (i.e. precisely what the GOP had awhile back).

It won't be anything earth-shattering.



That article, however, totally ignores the most profound thing the Dems could do with a super-majority if they ever got one. They could eliminate the electoral college and run Presidential elections on a straight popular vote.

A popular vote would mean that the GOP would never get another President elected EVER AGAIN, barring huge shifts in how population is distributed in the United States. Right now, it's not in the Dems interest to spend time and money extracting maximum turnout from hugely populated areas in safe blue states, they're more motivated to go after a few swing voters in rural Ohio. With a popular vote they could ignore the Rust Belt swing voters and ramp up their turnout on the coasts. The GOP already has very near max turnout, but the Dems have a huge potential to tap more. Given how the population is distributed in this country (i.e. heavy on the coasts), the GOP would never, ever, ever, ever win a Presidential election EVER again.

But a super-majority won't happen, so don't sweat it.



EDIT: As of the most recent census, the total "Blue State" (04 election) population is 167.9 million people while the total "Red State" population is only 125.2 million. Now, of course, there are Democrats in red states and Republicans in blue states, but the way it is right now, the percentage of population that actually votes is still pretty low. If the Republicans maxed turnout in their lower-populated states and the Dems maxed turnout in their much higher-populated states, well.....you get the idea. It would be permanent Democratic rule forever.

[RJF]

Originally Posted by WanganRunner

But a super-majority won't happen, so don't sweat it.

You so sure? It doesn't look that way right now.

[Gnnr]

Vote McCain. He'll probably Die 6 months into office anyway, then the country will be really f'd up. You betcha!

I don't understand how people can be so blindly for one party. How can you possibly agree with every single one of a parties political positions on various matters? That seems almost impossible to me...

[WanganRunner]

Originally Posted by RJF

You so sure? It doesn't look that way right now.

By what metric?

At the moment, there's something like a 20% chance that the Dems will nab 60 Senate seats, but that is trailing the national Presidential polls by a couple days.

As the Presidential race tightens, so too will those of down-ballot candidates. 20% is as good as it'll ever get, I don't expect the chance to be higher than 10% by election day.

You're worrying about nothing.

Hell, I support Obama enthusiastically but even I will admit that a super-majority of EITHER party would be downright terrifying for all Americans.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Here's how I see it:

This presidency will make or break it. There are hundreds of thousands of us who are already chomping at the bit to force change but don't know how to get the rest of the public on our side.

Whomever gets elected will either be moderate or be overthrown. I will not be at the forefront of this movement, but I will be walking in lockstep with whoever is, rifle across my back and pistol on my hip, for they are the defenders of my liberty and the expression of my self-reliance.

We have already endured great hardship at the hands of our own government, and it continues to probe us to see how far our "commitment" goes. The next president, McCain or Obama, will force the issue and will get the answer he was not expecting.

Neoliberalism and neoconservatism alike will be crushed under the heel of liberty. The government will be forced to scale back, to retreat under the rock from whence it came.

[ESmorz]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Here's how I see it:

This presidency will make or break it. There are hundreds of thousands of us who are already chomping at the bit to force change but don't know how to get the rest of the public on our side.

Whomever gets elected will either be moderate or be overthrown. I will not be at the forefront of this movement, but I will be walking in lockstep with whoever is, rifle across my back and pistol on my hip, for they are the defenders of my liberty and the expression of my self-reliance.

We have already endured great hardship at the hands of our own government, and it continues to probe us to see how far our "commitment" goes. The next president, McCain or Obama, will force the issue and will get the answer he was not expecting.

Neoliberalism and neoconservatism alike will be crushed under the heel of liberty. The government will be forced to scale back, to retreat under the rock from whence it came.

That's all well and dandy, but I can assure you right here and now that ANY uprising will be smashed and the perpetrators made out to be terrorists.

Your rifle across your back, and pistol on your hip won't mean shit when you're getting microwaved.

[shade]

You mean give even more welfare to fuckin bums in this country so they can keep leeching on the money that hard working people worked for? Fuck that, work hard for something or get the fuck out. Pussy ass liberals..

Originally Posted by murda-c

So i need to unite the planet so we can stop spending all our resources on war and start spending them on healthcare and galactic colonization?

I'll get right on it.

[WanganRunner]

Originally Posted by shade

You mean give even more welfare to fuckin bums in this country so they can keep leeching on the money that hard working people worked for? Fuck that, work hard for something or get the fuck out. Pussy ass liberals..

I'm not any more for welfare as a handout than you probably are, but telling ANY sizable contingent of the population to "GTFO" doesn't work, even if it's what is fair.

A market-based meritocracy economy is indeed very fair, but it does have shortcomings when applied to reality. A meritocracy (i.e. hands-off free-market economy) produces winners and losers, and we'd all like to tell ourselves that the winner should win, the losers should lose, and everyone should fend for themselves.

Unfortunately that won't really work. The American gene-pool produces born winners, born losers, and then people who could go either way (the latter being the vast majority). What do we do with the born losers, the people who are just not equipped to ever "win" in a winner-take-all economy? This is a decent-sized chunk of society, and you can't have a big chunk of society being consistently marginalized and unhappy unless you want to have crime skyrocket, have economic issues (see: current housing crisis), or potentially breed a revolution (violent or political).

So what do you do with these people? You can't very well kill or deport them, and you also can't expect them to somehow leave on their own. No, unfortunately it is the responsibility of the "winners" to take care of the "losers" to a certain extent, if for no reason other than self-preservation via keeping the nation stable. The assistance doesn't necessarily need to be in the form of a straight-up government handout, but there DO need to be safety nets of some kind.

It isn't exactly fair, and it definitely doesn't fit into the ideological purity demanded by today's GOP, but that doesn't make it not true. Consider it a cost of doing business.

Creating permanent underclasses is a nasty business, as numerous societies throughout history have learned.

[Gnnr]

Originally Posted by WanganRunner

I'm not any more for welfare as a handout than you probably are, but telling ANY sizable contingent of the population to "GTFO" doesn't work, even if it's what is fair.

A market-based meritocracy economy is indeed very fair, but it does have shortcomings when applied to reality. A meritocracy (i.e. hands-off free-market economy) produces winners and losers, and we'd all like to tell ourselves that the winner should win, the losers should lose, and everyone should fend for themselves.

Unfortunately that won't really work. The American gene-pool produces born winners, born losers, and then people who could go either way (the latter being the vast majority). What do we do with the born losers, the people who are just not equipped to ever "win" in a winner-take-all economy? This is a decent-sized chunk of society, and you can't have a big chunk of society being consistently marginalized and unhappy unless you want to have crime skyrocket, have economic issues (see: current housing crisis), or potentially breed a revolution (violent or political).

So what do you do with these people? You can't very well kill or deport them, and you also can't expect them to somehow leave on their own. No, unfortunately it is the responsibility of the "winners" to take care of the "losers" to a certain extent, if for no reason other than self-preservation via keeping the nation stable. The assistance doesn't necessarily need to be in the form of a straight-up government handout, but there DO need to be safety nets of some kind.

It isn't exactly fair, and it definitely doesn't fit into the ideological purity demanded by today's GOP, but that doesn't make it not true. Consider it a cost of doing business.

Creating permanent underclasses is a nasty business, as numerous societies throughout history have learned.

Word. Once you get into higher level politics you start to see that social darwinism doesn't work out. This country learned many times, sometimes brutally, that it can't function without those at the bottom of the pyramid.

[RJF]

Another Democrat that wants to stifle free speech.

[WanganRunner]

Originally Posted by Gnnr

Word. Once you get into higher level politics you start to see that social darwinism doesn't work out. This country learned many times, sometimes brutally, that it can't function without those at the bottom of the pyramid.

Yep.

It's comforting to think that we can apply the "rules of the playground" to running the country and decide everything based on what's fair, but unfortunately that doesn't always sync with reality.

It doesn't work at a macro level. Huge groups of people exert certain influence and can exact certain consequences just by virtue of being a huge group, whether it's fair or not. You can either deal with it and secure your own position or ignore it at your own peril.

[imotion s14]

Originally Posted by Sil-Eighty SE-K

as long as i dont loose my 2nd amendment!

You know that's next.

[ranger240]

Originally Posted by jrocslider

why do you always post threads that are negative towards Barack Obama and the democratic party?

where are the negative republican threads at? we all know how smart and experienced Sarah Palin is

wow your post indirectly supports the fairness doctrine and you didnt even notice that

[imotion s14]

Originally Posted by RJF

What's their definition of "rich"?

put the fear of the deficit behind us?

Who the fuck keeps electing this moron? Oh right.. the educated elite of blue state Massachusetts.