This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

[ov1989]

subscribed!!

[ska]

Is anybody else having trouble with the new MAX forged knuckles?

The driver side knuckle; with the rotor on, if I try to put my caliper bracket on, the upper part of the caliper bracket makes contact with the rotor. The bottom of the caliper bracket has plenty of rotor clearance though. So at first I thought my rotor or wheel hub was bent, I used the rotor and wheel hub from the passenger side and same result, the upper part of the caliper bracket makes contact. I then put together the passenger side knuckle and everything is fine, everythin cleared so It had to have been the driver side MAX knuckle.

So I took a look at it and the UPPER part of the caliper bracket mount on the knuckle seem to have a very poor/unfinished machining. Which probably means the mounts are unevenly machined. Either that or the spindle is crooked.

Here is the UPPER caliper bracket mount. It looks like the machining wasn't complete and was painted over anyways.



Here you can see either my caliper racket is sitting crooked or the spindle is making the rotor sit crooked; makin contact at the top.



Anyways despite this inconvinience, I hope its just the bracket mount, that way all I would have to do is grind it down a little bit.
I can't wait to test these out, my rack is moved forward 25mm, my tierod is totally parallel with the LCA.

[xilovelsdx]

Originally Posted by ska

Anyways despite this inconvinience, I hope its just the bracket mount, that way all I would have to do is grind it down a little bit.
I can't wait to test these out, my rack is moved forward 25mm, my tierod is totally parallel with the LCA.

Im pretty sure this is why they are sending out washers to even this out.

[ska]

Originally Posted by xilovelsdx

Im pretty sure this is why they are sending out washers to even this out.

No no. There is just simply not enough room on the UPPER part of the caliper bracket to allow for the rotor to spin. If anything, I would need to grind OFF some metal on the upper caliper bracket mount on the knuckle.

[Def]

Yea, not sure how you remove metal with washers. They missed the machining by a mile.

Looking at the pic, I'd say the lower caliper mount is probably what is off more. And is that with the rotor pulled to the hub? Stock rotors are horribly loose on tolerance and fall off the hub without being torqued down.

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by Def

Yea, not sure how you remove metal with washers. They missed the machining by a mile.

Looking at the pic, I'd say the lower caliper mount is probably what is off more. And is that with the rotor pulled to the hub? Stock rotors are horribly loose on tolerance and fall off the hub without being torqued down.

DEF!!!! WHERE YOU BEEN MAN!?>??

And as to suspension related on topic posting for discussion purposes:

"I just bought a new(ish) 240sx. I want to keep the chassis in great shape- prevent unwanted "sagging" as cars tend to acquire high mileage often do. What should my suspension adjustments / modifications consist of?"

Answer: I Would add a Nismo power brace, and front/rear strut tower braces to help prevent the mileage related sag. ??
Please adjust my answer to be correct. Please add anything that is missing. Any of suspension mods/adjustments one can make?? Real question with real curiosity. thanks!!!
ps. only stock ride height components are being considered.

[Def]

For a high mileage car where I wanted a nice, controlled stock ride I'd just replace tie rods, ball joints, dampers and the few factory bushings that don't age well on our cars (FLCA and tension rod, maybe sway bar/endlinks).

Cheap strut tower bars are worth it, but I wouldn't waste the money on anything fancy.

[ska]

So this was how the driver side upper caliper mount on the knuckle looked in comparison to the passenger side. You can't see it in the picture but the driver side mount had more metal then the passenger

Originally Posted by Def

Yea, not sure how you remove metal with washers. They missed the machining by a mile.

Looking at the pic, I'd say the lower caliper mount is probably what is off more. And is that with the rotor pulled to the hub? Stock rotors are horribly loose on tolerance and fall off the hub without being torqued down.

Yea that is with the rotor tightened down with 2 lug nuts. So I grinded the upper mount and now it has clearance. Yay. The only worries I have is that I hope this misalignment of the knuckle on one side doesn't have a negative effect on the knuckles performance.

[KAs14slider]

Any one else that got pbm's new knuckles care to chime in on this? Or is this just an issue ska is having? I am still waiting on more parts to install my fronts. I hope I don't run into this.

[xilovelsdx]

Originally Posted by KAs14slider

Any one else that got pbm's new knuckles care to chime in on this? Or is this just an issue ska is having? I am still waiting on more parts to install my fronts. I hope I don't run into this.

I put mine on and didnt really run into any issues but I will say that I really havent driven my car but down the street and back after installing them. I didnt even look to see if mine had caliper issues but it didnt seem like it when I was installing them. I will have to take a look whenever I get a chance.

[Blk96t]

I installed my pbm knuckles this weekend. All the machining seemed fine on my set.. I drove
About a mile to do some doughnuts, it felt great.
First impression of the quick steer is fucking rediculious!
I don't have pbm lca's yet.or an alligent. I have a lot more angle and know where near maxed out. It hits full lock in 1 1/4 turns! It's gonna be sick! Ill be testing at drift event this weekend..

[tobroketobuildarealcar]

Originally Posted by ska

Is anybody else having trouble with the new MAX forged knuckles?

The driver side knuckle; with the rotor on, if I try to put my caliper bracket on, the upper part of the caliper bracket makes contact with the rotor. The bottom of the caliper bracket has plenty of rotor clearance though. So at first I thought my rotor or wheel hub was bent, I used the rotor and wheel hub from the passenger side and same result, the upper part of the caliper bracket makes contact. I then put together the passenger side knuckle and everything is fine, everythin cleared so It had to have been the driver side MAX knuckle.

So I took a look at it and the UPPER part of the caliper bracket mount on the knuckle seem to have a very poor/unfinished machining. Which probably means the mounts are unevenly machined. Either that or the spindle is crooked.

Here is the UPPER caliper bracket mount. It looks like the machining wasn't complete and was painted over anyways.



Here you can see either my caliper racket is sitting crooked or the spindle is making the rotor sit crooked; makin contact at the top.



Anyways despite this inconvinience, I hope its just the bracket mount, that way all I would have to do is grind it down a little bit.
I can't wait to test these out, my rack is moved forward 25mm, my tierod is totally parallel with the LCA.

In your last pic where you have the caliper bracket and rotor installed what do you have holding the rotor up flush against the hub. To me it just looks like your rotor is not up against the hub causing it to look like the caliper mounting tabs are causing the problem

[TheRealSy90]

Yeah it doesn't look like the rotor is all the way on, throw some lugnuts on there!

[jaysgottaredtop]

Originally Posted by tobroketobuildarealcar

In your last pic where you have the caliper bracket and rotor installed what do you have holding the rotor up flush against the hub. To me it just looks like your rotor is not up against the hub causing it to look like the caliper mounting tabs are causing the problem

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Yeah it doesn't look like the rotor is all the way on, throw some lugnuts on there!

hey guys, feel free to actually read once in a while

Originally Posted by ska

Yea that is with the rotor tightened down with 2 lug nuts. So I grinded the upper mount and now it has clearance. Yay.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by ska

So this was how the driver side upper caliper mount on the knuckle looked in comparison to the passenger side. You can't see it in the picture but the driver side mount had more metal then the passenger






Yea that is with the rotor tightened down with 2 lug nuts. So I grinded the upper mount and now it has clearance. Yay. The only worries I have is that I hope this misalignment of the knuckle on one side doesn't have a negative effect on the knuckles performance.

To be honest, that looks like text book missed QC. Considering that these knuckles are from the first set, and that PSM more or less shipped them to end users once they actually received the product, this sort of thing is to be expected, although it's still kind of annoying.

There's a certain point in time where you make a trade off as an early adopter, you sacrifice waiting some period of time to get a known and proven product for getting in sooner and occasionally there are glitches. Thus is life.

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

"I just bought a new(ish) 240sx. I want to keep the chassis in great shape- prevent unwanted "sagging" as cars tend to acquire high mileage often do. What should my suspension adjustments / modifications consist of?"

I've actually been chasing this sort of stuff on my S14. Thus far, I've replaced the tension rods, LCA ball joints, inner tie rods, outer tie rods, steering rack bushings, etc. A while back I did the same sort of stuff on the rear, along with tossing on a rear sway and the car feels significantly better. Looking into bracing options now, I've got a tanabe tension rod brace that I scored for cheap - might replace it with a Nismo power brace eventually.

There's this part of me that wants to track now some of the OEM S15 Spec-R bracing and see if it can be made to work on an S14. I kind of hate most of the bracing options out there right now, most of the 'good' stuff either doesn't work on an S14, or is part of an incomplete product line (manufacturer XXX makes awesome part 1, but not awesome part 2)

[hks4life]

^^^ idk about that. i had to do alot of modding for my caliper to fit with their rear knuckle. witch i dint expect to have to do/want to do.. but oh well lol

[swiftmini]

If you guys think grinding the lugs a little to make brakes fit correctly is a pain in the butt.... whatever you do, dont buy driftworks knuckles haha you would have a mental break down pmsl

[swiftmini]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

looks awesome but in the battles he lost much too far off of the inside clipping point and almost stopped.

I think he is using wisefab parts

[scir16v]

Originally Posted by swiftmini

looks awesome but in the battles he lost much too far off of the inside clipping point and almost stopped.

I think he is using wisefab parts

Some of the other problem that it seems like he has is not utilizing the kit right. He's trying to get too deep of angle in the drift where he almost stops. Then he has to straighten in order to pull the speed back up.

He's trying to hard to look cool

[PoorMans180SX]

Or he's just doing it big. That corner is really low speed and I'm sure it's hard to keep a normal SR20 car spinning the tires, let alone when you're coming in backwards. Props for trying backwards entries in competition. Yes the kit is wisefab.

[Def]

It'd be a lot cooler if he hit the apex (and no, I refuse to ever call it a "clipping point" - that's what you find on directions on how to make a dress, not out on a track).

[tobroketobuildarealcar]

Does any one know how much static camber is gained per 1/4th inch of extension of front lower controol arm on s13

I am trying to figure out how much I want to extend my front lower controol arm with out ending up with to much static camber for a car that is a daily driver/weekend track fun car

[swiftmini]

Originally Posted by tobroketobuildarealcar

Does any one know how much static camber is gained per 1/4th inch of extension of front lower control arm on s13

I am trying to figure out how much I want to extend my front lower controol arm with out ending up with to much static camber for a car that is a daily driver/weekend track fun car

its impossible to say because it depends on ride height and other things, but you could probably get a good idea by using some measurements from your car and some maths.

Its funny how you dont want too much camber for daily driving.

My drift car has 1 degree rear camber and 6ish front but my street car has like 8* allround haha

[tobroketobuildarealcar]

Mainly trying to maintan a decent contact patch for daily driving for a supprise stop situation where I will be able to stop the car quick enough with out locking the front tires up

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by tobroketobuildarealcar

Mainly trying to maintan a decent contact patch for daily driving for a supprise stop situation where I will be able to stop the car quick enough with out locking the front tires up

What else is going on with your front suspension? Depending on how you've currently got everything setup, you should be able to do the following:

Set your desired camber at the camber plate in your coils and then measure the amount of positive travel you still have left in the adjustment. That is the amount that you can extend your LCA and maintain the desired camber. On my car, the slotted mounts max out somewhere around 5deg negative camber and then have a solid 1.5in or so of positive (outward) travel, meaning I could get away with something like a 35-40mm LCA extension and maintain my 5deg camber.... With that being said, I would leave a little adjustment in the top hat on the positive side, just in case.

Also, if you find yourself in a situation where you've run out of camber adjustment and are still outside of your desired range, you can do the following:

- Slot the coilover mount at the knuckle

- Make your LCA's Adjustable.

IMO, I would make the LCA adjustable to some degree if you're going to get them extended. Do an extension between the ball joint and tension rod mount as a sort of 'coarse' addition to help with clearance at lock, and then use an adjuster at the cross member for fine tuning things.

[godrifttoday]

Def banned what!!!????

[Croustibat]

From marketplace only (i guess if he wanted to talk about it he would have already done)

[tobroketobuildarealcar]

[QUOTE=thefro526;5321354]What else is going on with your front suspension? Depending on how you've currently got everything setup, you should be able to do the following:



Currently front setup is coilovers , adj tension rod , dMAX knuckles , gktech steering rack offset spacers b/c I was having over centering issues with the tie rods

Other than wheel clearance issues I am also having a problem with the inner tie rods being to long to adjust toe enough. This is whi I origonally posted about the camber gain on extending lower ctrl arm if I bring the knuckle out from the rack by extending the flca I will gain the ability to adjust toe properly but I don't want to much camber either

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by tobroketobuildarealcar

Currently front setup is coilovers , adj tension rod , dMAX knuckles , gktech steering rack offset spacers b/c I was having over centering issues with the tie rods

Other than wheel clearance issues I am also having a problem with the inner tie rods being to long to adjust toe enough. This is whi I origonally posted about the camber gain on extending lower ctrl arm if I bring the knuckle out from the rack by extending the flca I will gain the ability to adjust toe properly but I don't want to much camber either

Sounds like you have everything you need to dial in just about whatever you want up front if you were to extend your LCA.

Like I said in my previous post, if you're happy with your current camber, then check to see how much adjustment you have left at the plate. If your positive (owtward) adjustment is X, then don't extend your LCA's more than X or you'll have too much camber.

Or, like I said before, you can have your LCA's reworked with a 2 part extension - a static extension between the tension rod mount and the ball joint to increase clearance at lock, and a dynamic extension (adjustable) at the bushing location to allow you to tune the setup should you have too much or too little camber/want a larger track.

As far as your tie rods being too long, it's not really that they're 'too long' as much as they're too far away from the rack thanks to the offset spacers. IIRC, they're .625"-.75" thick, so to compensate for them, you'd need to shorten your tie rods by the same amount... Also, since they've been relocated, and the path between the rack and the pickup on the knuckle is effectively shorter, that's going to have some effect as well, though I don't know how much off hand.

[PoorMans180SX]

[QUOTE=tobroketobuildarealcar;5325324]

Originally Posted by thefro526

What else is going on with your front suspension? Depending on how you've currently got everything setup, you should be able to do the following:



Currently front setup is coilovers , adj tension rod , dMAX knuckles , gktech steering rack offset spacers b/c I was having over centering issues with the tie rods

Other than wheel clearance issues I am also having a problem with the inner tie rods being to long to adjust toe enough. This is whi I origonally posted about the camber gain on extending lower ctrl arm if I bring the knuckle out from the rack by extending the flca I will gain the ability to adjust toe properly but I don't want to much camber either

You can do like thefro said, or you can measure how much you need to move the tie rod to zero out your toe, then extend the lower by that much.


I'm having a similar problem with my kit, the tie rods are too long to let me run the LCA's at their shortest (because of the way I have upper mount set), so I have to trim down the really long sleeve on the tie rod end. So I have a lot of camber right now.