This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

[Black240Ct]

Originally Posted by Jonnie Fraz

Build the bump stop to hit the knuckle not the rod end...
Like so...

very nice thanks.. i like the bolt idea to set the stop..

have you used the car with this setup? did you have any weird steering with the suspension moving up and down and the knuckle rubbing on that bolt?

[Jonnie Fraz]

Originally Posted by Black240Ct

very nice thanks.. i like the bolt idea to set the stop..

have you used the car with this setup? did you have any weird steering with the suspension moving up and down and the knuckle rubbing on that bolt?

The car is in use. It is my buddy's car, he is using it in the Just Drift pro am series. He runs the car at lock quite a bit and has not expressed any ill feelings in the steering. There seems to be no wear pattern on the head of the bolts, only a small mark where the touch the knuckle. The finished stop has a gusset on the back of the stop to the arm, but I did not get a pic of that before the went back on the car.
Here is the car at Top Drift...

[codyace]

Originally Posted by jaysgottaredtop

^ bingo. manual racks are generally easier to turn because of that ratio, but you also have to turn it more lock-to-lock. a good depowered rack is still easy enough to turn; i personally don't think i'd like to switch over to a higher ratio.

Depowered racks always seem sloppy to me, and require way too much effort. Sure they make work, and sure you can adapt, but I'd still put a true manual rack>PS rack>depowered rack in terms of preference for me, and for most.

I should really get back to playing with the Mustang racks to see if I can make it work.

[conrad_s13.5]

kinda off topic,....anyone verify that 97ish i30/i35 inner tie rod idea.

curious so i can buy some.....lol

[IThaJokaI]

Originally Posted by codyace

Depowered racks always seem sloppy to me, and require way too much effort. Sure they make work, and sure you can adapt, but I'd still put a true manual rack>PS rack>depowered rack in terms of preference for me, and for most.

I should really get back to playing with the Mustang racks to see if I can make it work.

If you make a manual rack that is a bolt in option, I will buy it.

[frifox]

Originally Posted by conrad_s13.5

kinda off topic,....anyone verify that 97ish i30/i35 inner tie rod idea.

curious so i can buy some.....lol

yep, put them on my ride last week and went to a drift even last saturday. worked out pretty good imo... i can take some pix later today if anyone wants.


ps: compared those rods with s14 ones. from the middle to the end that threads into the outer tie rod, s14 ones are 11mm thick and i30 ones are 13mm... so looks like they're longer AND thicker

[Matej]

Originally Posted by IThaJokaI

If you make a manual rack that is a bolt in option, I will buy it.

Second.

The Jegs Pinto rack has a 15:1 ratio.
http://www.jegs.com/jegs/jegsmanualrack.html

[conrad_s13.5]

Originally Posted by frifox

yep, put them on my ride last week and went to a drift even last saturday. worked out pretty good imo... i can take some pix later today if anyone wants.


ps: compared those rods with s14 ones. from the middle to the end that threads into the outer tie rod, s14 ones are 11mm thick and i30 ones are 13mm... so looks like they're longer AND thicker

Holy shit man,. yeah, this is great to hear. Pics would be awesome,.....buuuut prolly gonna buy them regardless....lol

edit: so just to be sure, 97 i30 inners is the right year/model

[frifox]

Originally Posted by conrad_s13.5

Holy shit man,. yeah, this is great to hear. Pics would be awesome,.....buuuut prolly gonna buy them regardless....lol

edit: so just to be sure, 97 i30 inners is the right year/model

looking at FSM for a 95 s14, they say tie-rod standard length "L" is 169mm... then, looking at i30 FSM years 96-99 they label "L" as 202mm (33mm longer than s14). then, FSM for i30/i35 years 01-04 "L" is 193mm (24mm longer than s14).

so yeah, just by looking at FSMs i'd suggest checking out tie rods for i30 years 96 to 99 and when going to buy them, to be on the safe side, always grab an s14 inner tie rod with you and check that the thread diameter & pitch match. i'm pretty sure they do but it doesnt hurt to verify

[ShakotanGazelle]

I usually use NAPA Online whenever i want to compare suspension components.
they've got all of the thread pitches/lengths/tapers listed. Pretty useful!

[ShakotanGazelle]

fail ass double post

[GKTECH]

A little update:

We are now ready to start prototyping. For those that have missed it what we have here is a billet 7075-T6 aluminium modular knuckle for the S chassis (S13 and S14/S15) with Chromoly spindle. The steering arm is completely modular (we currently have a standard and DW spec arm as shown in this image which offers great angle and quick steering response), the brake caliper mount is radial and we currently have the standard position mount (either with or without ABS sensor provision) aswell as a mount to run R33 GTR (324mm rotors) with your standard 4pot Nissan calipers. The knuckle corrects roll center by 40mm's by raising the spindle height and the steering arm is adjustable in height (aswell as being modular). The knuckle provides +/- 2 degrees of camber and is car specific and parts are interchangeable. Ie. you will be able to order the knuckle with S14 spindle, with S14 ball joint insert but with S13 strut bolts (12mm Vs S14/S15 having 14mm). This is NOTHING like any other knuckle on the market. From here we go to prototyping/on car testing and we should see these late 2012. Estimated price at this stage is $599/pair (AUD). Any questions, feel free to ask away.

A breakdown of the specs:

ETA October, 2012

Estimated price - $599/pair (to be confirmed)

For those that have missed it what we have here is a billet 7075-T6 aluminium modular knuckle for the S chassis (S13 and S14/S15) with Chromoly spindle.

Featuring:
- spindle height raised 40mm's to correct roll center
- modular steering arm (choice between 2 arms at the time of ordering)
- adjustable steering arm to correct bump steer (as seen here: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151055582888296)
- modular caliper mount with ABS provision (choice between 2 brackets at the time of ordering; standard and extended bracket to suit 4pot caliper with 324mm R33 GTR rotor
- S13 version is: 2.52kg which is a 24% reduction over standard
- S14/S15 version is: 2.63kg which is a 31% weight reduction over standard and DriftWorks item which weighs in at 3.8kg's
- adjustable KPI/Camber +/- 2 degrees
- mix and match when ordering. Ie. ability to order the knuckle with S14 spindle, with S14 ball joint insert but with S13 strut bolts (12mm Vs S14/S15 having 14mm)
- CAD files available to the general public for steering arm and caliper bracket development



More images can be seen here: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...3379304&type=3

[Motary]

That price is looking very good! What is the projected weight of the knuckle?

[swiftmini]

nice knuckles, cannot wait to see finished product

[GKTECH]

Originally Posted by Motary

That price is looking very good! What is the projected weight of the knuckle?

Standard S13 is 3.3kg, our S13 version is 2.52kg which is a 24% reduction, and standard S14/S15 is 3.8kg and our version is 2.63kg which is a 31% weight reduction. The DriftWorks unit is 3.8kgs Vs our 2.63kg.

That's based on the unit as pictured complete here:




P.s here's a short video of the steering arm in action: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151055582888296

[frifox]

Originally Posted by conrad_s13.5

Pics would be awesome,.....

this is the car setup. maxed out camber plates outwards and extended lca's to get, if my math is correct, 3* front camber... or that's what it was before i raised fronts by 20mm. was rubbing the wheel well & fenders in all possible places








LCAs, Tension Rods, Knuckles, and Coilovers are by Parts Shop Max. Outer Tie Rods are stock s14 and Inner Tie Rods are from Infiniti i30.

[swiftmini]

That's not full lock in the pics is it??

[swiftmini]

got passed this link today. makes some interesting points about camber gain, caster and wisefab kits. its inline with my way of thinking to a certain degree

http://www.inertia-ms.com/blog/?p=781

[frifox]

Originally Posted by swiftmini

That's not full lock in the pics is it??

for now, yes it is... the tie rod and the knuckle arm are pretty much inline at full lock right now so i'll need to move the steering rack forward to allow for more angle. i'll be doing that later since the angle i'm getting right now is more than enough for my 210k half dead KA

[SicBastard]

Originally Posted by GKTECH

Standard S13 is 3.3kg, our S13 version is 2.52kg which is a 24% reduction, and standard S14/S15 is 3.8kg and our version is 2.63kg which is a 31% weight reduction. The DriftWorks unit is 3.8kgs Vs our 2.63kg.

That's based on the unit as pictured complete here:




P.s here's a short video of the steering arm in action: May 31, 2012 2:48pm | Facebook

That looks like a really exciting product! Weight savings, modular steering arm, and radial caliper mounting option!? What calipers are those radial mounting bosses designed for? And being able to increase the king pin angle 2 degrees should raise the roll center as well. Have you calculated how much the roll center is raised by increasing the KPA 2 degrees, but still maintaing say 3 degrees of camber?

[DC Dan MAX USA]

frifox, that L bracket looks like a great quick adjustment between our stock setting and where you need the bumpstop to be. Great idea.

To test weather that will work in all situations with your settings, take out the front spring, and jack up the wheel, and let it down to make sure the stop is making proper contact during all points of compression and droop.

[GripTerror]

Originally Posted by GKTECH

Standard S13 is 3.3kg, our S13 version is 2.52kg which is a 24% reduction, and standard S14/S15 is 3.8kg and our version is 2.63kg which is a 31% weight reduction. The DriftWorks unit is 3.8kgs Vs our 2.63kg.

That's based on the unit as pictured complete here:




P.s here's a short video of the steering arm in action: May 31, 2012 2:48pm | Facebook

that looks really cool and you guys said you will have a grip oriented setup out of this too ey?

[GKTECH]

Originally Posted by SicBastard

That looks like a really exciting product! Weight savings, modular steering arm, and radial caliper mounting option!? What calipers are those radial mounting bosses designed for? And being able to increase the king pin angle 2 degrees should raise the roll center as well. Have you calculated how much the roll center is raised by increasing the KPA 2 degrees, but still maintaing say 3 degrees of camber?

The caliper mount pictured is the standard position. As the product sits, it is a direct fit to any S chassis car.

That's a very specific scenario and unfortunately we haven't calculated the roll center within that scenario. The KPI doesn't need to be changed, that's entirely up to the users preference and how much they want to play around with different settings.

[GKTECH]

Originally Posted by GripTerror

that looks really cool and you guys said you will have a grip oriented setup out of this too ey?

The only difference between the 2 is the steering arm which you can choose at the time of ordering. Alternatively we will have the CAD files available to those with the skills to make their own steering arm and caliper mounts.

Here's the overhead shot of the 2 arm options (more options to come in the future)

[Def]

HHNNNNNNNGGGGGG!!!!

Knuckle is looking great GKTECH. Letting the design be open source is going to make this thing blow up.

I know I've got quite a few plans for additions over time!

[SicBastard]

If you are making both the steering arm and brake caliper bracket modular, why not make the knuckle symmetrical so that the same knuckle could be L or R depending on which side you bolted the steering arm or brake caliper bracket to? Couldn't this decrease machining cost, to be making only one instead of two different knuckles?

[GKTECH]

Originally Posted by SicBastard

If you are making both the steering arm and brake caliper bracket modular, why not make the knuckle symmetrical so that the same knuckle could be L or R depending on which side you bolted the steering arm or brake caliper bracket to? Couldn't this decrease machining cost, to be making only one instead of two different knuckles?

We originally had the design like this however a quick FEA showed that more material was required on the steering arm side, hence the current design.

[travypoo]

Here are the I30 vs the Teins.

[Motary]

They look the same as Nissan X-Trail ones I just bought, I will post pics once I have gotten my s13 ones off the car

[IThaJokaI]

Originally Posted by travypoo

Here are the I30 vs the Teins.

Only downfall is the lack of threads into the rack, so no room to run the slip on spacers. But I bet they would work great with a pair of those bolt on spacers.