Zilvia Gun Thread

[dtfdanyo]

Originally Posted by K_style

Question for you all..

I am planning to purchase my first pistol. I have shot before quite few times @ shooting range. More I live in the states more I feel I should have one for my own protection.

I have shot many different handguns. Of course I do not remember names of pistols but it was for sure .22 and .357 revolver and some more.

What kind of pistol would you all recommend for 1st time purchaser?

Also do you all think buying used pistols from gun store are ok or stick to new one?

I think a 9mm is the best way to go for a first time buyer. Many indor ranges let you pay the range fee (usually for an hour), and try out as many guns you want included in the fee.

A Glock 17 is what I got for my first handgun and my brother got and M&P 9mm. We are both super happy with our purchases.

Personally, I like buying a firearm new when I can unless I buy a gun from a friend or someone I know personally.

[silvia-junkie]

A good first gun is one you can and will shoot. Practice, practice, practice, so get a caliber you can afford. Keep in mind the cost doesn't stop with the gun. You will need a good holster, you may want extra mags, and lots of practice ammo. 9mm is about half the price of .45. As for the gun there are lots of good guns out there. My personal favorites are Sig Sauer and Springfield. My buddy swears by Glock, while almost everybody I work with likes Smith & Wesson. Rugger, CZ, Beretta, H&K, just to name a few also make some great guns.

I really don't believe in stopping power. Getting shot sucks no matter what caliber. You want to shoot to stop, so any caliber that does tissue damage to cause pain to stop you attacker and goes deep enough to hit vital organs will work. FMJ ammo to practice and a hollow point from a reputable manufacturer to carry for protection and you are good.

[kyles1988]

Originally Posted by silvia-junkie

I really don't believe in stopping power. Getting shot sucks no matter what caliber. You want to shoot to stop, so any caliber that does tissue damage to cause pain to stop you attacker and goes deep enough to hit vital organs will work. FMJ ammo to practice and a hollow point from a reputable manufacturer to carry for protection and you are good.

Agreed. No round out there is going to pick a guy up and set him down across the room. It's better to get a caliber you can shoot well and get more shots on target.

[jesse_s13]

New christmas present?

[Double-R]

Originally Posted by S14DB

Is the fist picture you posted a SBR or a carbine model? I know the one you just posted is the SBR. The pistol version just looks stupid.


.40 has less mass than a .45 but much better terminal ballistics. Is not just about the weight its also about the speed.

Spec Ops guys use subsonic suppressed .45's for the power to sound ratio.

.357SIG is an interesting round. As fast as a 357mag but none of the kick. Can use most .40 mags. But it's still to much of a wildcat to invest in.

Kstyle is this for Home Use or carry? Home I would get a long slide .40sw like a glock 35. Carry is all about comfort. Comfort to carry and to use. .22 to .45 can be devastating in the close ranges you will be in(.32/.35 auto crap excluded).


Class III all depends on you local Sheriff and if he will sign the paperwork. It's usually all or nothing. Ether rubber stamp everything that passes checks or nothing but LEO's.

All Vectors come as 2nd pic "short barrel" although CT regulation requires it to be considered as class 3 based on its weight and size. So ppl send them to gun smiths to perminately add the carbine to make it a SBR 16". Personally I would rather have the stock version for the mobility, close range home protection.

@silvia-junkie, don't believe in stopping power?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stopping_power
try stopping a crack head Running at you in YOUR home with a knife without a head shot (keep in mind you'll catch the homicide charge and the headshot under pressure is a hard shot). A 9mm or 22 will sting not stop. Ppl home invading wear leather jackets over hoodies for a reason... A 9mm what? Lmfao
50cent and all these rappers getting shot up 9x and survive thanks to 9's and 22's

[silvia-junkie]

Just because there is a wiki article does not make it true. I have been working with law enforcement for a while now and have talked to coroners and have a very good friend who is a combat medic. Between us we have seen one shot kill with a .17 pellet gun to the head a .22lr to the heart. 9mm, .40 and .45 kills. We have seen people survive rifle shots to the chest. It really does boil down to shot placement and what the round hits. Even an inch to the side can mean the difference between life and death.

Simple physics says for every reaction there is a equal and opposite reaction. If we play the bullet energy game it's weight and speed. E=(1/2)m x (v^2). So slow and heavy or fast and light. In fact since it is velocity squared adding more speed imparts more energy then upping the weight. If somebody were to be knocked back by a round hitting them then so to should the shooter be knocked back. And if you shoot somebody in self defense where the shot is placed is of no consequence. Hitting a moving target is difficult. The hit rate of LE is about 30%. Practice, practice practice. If the target is hopped up on drugs pain compliance (what most non fatal shooting stops are) wont work. Any round that goes deep enough to hit a vital organ will kill. All modern rounds will go that deep (really only needs to go ~6in). Placement and round capacity. Most departments issue the 9mm the .357Sig and the .40. Even the military uses the 9mm round now.

If you want to stop somebody quickly and reliably then you need a long gun period. People carry pistols for portability and ease of use. My home defense gun is a shotgun loaded with slugs. My work gun is a Sig in .357Sig. I carry a pistol at work because I can't walk around all day with a rifle.

Ok. I'm now off my soapbox and not getting back on. My wife has fallen in love with the M1A. What are the pros / cons on getting a Scout Squad vs the standard length?

[kyles1988]

Originally Posted by Double-R

All Vectors come as 2nd pic "short barrel" although CT regulation requires it to be considered as class 3 based on its weight and size.

Kriss makes a 16" barreled version with the fake "supressor" barrel shroud. If you remove the fake suppressor, it is a normal 16" barrel under there.

Originally Posted by Double-R

So ppl send them to gun smiths to perminately add the carbine to make it a SBR 16".

This sentence is a mess. The world of NFA items is confusing enough without bad english adding to it. "Add the carbine"? "SBR 16"? What? I'm just worried about other members here who aren't as informed as they could be getting the wrong idea about what is legal and what isn't. NFA items are serious business.

Originally Posted by Double-R

Personally I would rather have the stock version for the mobility, close range home protection.

It isn't about "personal preference" in most cases, it's about the legality of it. Many states do not allow NFA items. Anyone who is interested in this type of weapon would gladly give up the muzzle velocity that the longer barrel adds for the mobility, but that just isn't an option. For example, in Illinois we can not have NFA items (SBR in this case) unless we have a specific type of FFL.

And as far as stopping power goes: it's pretty hard to argue with the logic of 1 hit with a 9mm is better than 5 misses with a .45. 5 misses are entirely likely with an inexperienced shooter. A person is better off buying a $500 9mm and spending $500 on training courses and ammo than they are buying a $900 .45 1911 and $100 on ammo. Practice, Practice, Practice.

[VNG704]

Your last three words would explain why a .45auto can miss or hit just as much as a 9mm. Just saying. With practice and a semi auto, lethal shot placement(s) can be had.

[Double-R]

@kyle, sorry for the mix up... it's considered a SBR unless the carbine is a perminate fixture and non removable. Kriss does have the carbine "barrel" option avail but it will not affect the gun's categorization to a rifel from a SBR. barrel length of Atleast 16" for rifel. Trying to avoid taxes and the special lic to own here in ct. The comment about the saving 500 bucks on a gun based on the higher cost of a larger caliber?! And cheaper ammo?! Lol crazy.... it's your life how can you budget that? Id stick with a .45 want my shot to count even if placement is poor.

@silvia-junkie, regardless of the shot placement (not to give the handicap just a random novice chest shot) from a .45, .22 and a 9mm. My point is what will stop without relying on luck? Dont need to ask a combat medic for that lol half of my family are Marines

[silvia-junkie]

Well the stretch cavity of the 9mm and the .45 aren't that different in size. They just aren't, so we talk about the physical size of the hole they make, the permanent cavity. Now a 9mm bullet is .355 caliber so the difference in hole size in your target is .2 of an inch. That's not a big difference and in relation to say an 18 inch cross section of a chest the percent difference is negligible. Pistols are pistols and according to the reports I have read 80% of people shot with pistols survive. I have never shot anybody and hope I never do. I don't know if your Marine family have shot anybody with a pistol but being LE, a Marine, A gun owner doesn't make you a ballistics expert. I go by reports I have read, real world experience my friends have had and a mechanical engineering degree. I trust my life at work to a .357Sig and my personal life to a 9mm or .357Sig clothing dependent.

As a P.S. I didn't want to argue about about ballistics like every gun thread inevitable happens. I would call this more of a discussion, everyone is being very mature. But I am done, no more from me. So here is some M1A porn to get this back on track.





I am leaning toward the standard length as I have no need for a shorter rifle but damn does the Scout Squad look good in a JAE stock.

[Double-R]

I hear that it's simply discussion nothing to lose sleep over lol. Simply stating If it didn't hold truth or was not that significant, such ammo/calibur wouldnt have a categorization or designation "stopping" potential. History does hold truth and without the discovery of "stopping power" hundred + years ago (45 or equivalent ammunition/pistol) battles would have had different outcomes. There is much more to the logistics all i can say is research it. Why is the double and triple tap method taught? With which caliber? Not the .45 For a reason.
Overlooking the significance in caliber in a huge misconception some have for example a .223 can be shot from a .556 rifel not vice versa!! That's crazy close in size... That is an extremely "insignificant" size in ammo. But!!! Why market the sizes? The ammo? Why not eliminate The .223 all together? Or vice versa!? Because all about what you are doing with the equipment and slight changes will be highly beneficial to it's task. Close combat? Civilian? Target? Keep us informed about your pistol purchase!! Lol DEBATE!!

[sr20sean]

Christmas present to myself is an m1a with a sage ebr stock and nightforce stock with a harris bipod.

pretty much this gun:

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by Double-R

@kyle, sorry for the mix up... it's considered a SBR unless the carbine is a perminate fixture and non removable. Kriss does have the carbine "barrel" option avail but it will not affect the gun's categorization to a rifel from a SBR. barrel length of Atleast 16" for rifel. Trying to avoid taxes and the special lic to own here in ct. The comment about the saving 500 bucks on a gun based on the higher cost of a larger caliber?! And cheaper ammo?! Lol crazy.... it's your life how can you budget that? Id stick with a .45 want my shot to count even if placement is poor.

@silvia-junkie, regardless of the shot placement (not to give the handicap just a random novice chest shot) from a .45, .22 and a 9mm. My point is what will stop without relying on luck? Dont need to ask a combat medic for that lol half of my family are Marines

Kriss makes 3 different semi-auto models to comply with differing state laws.
Carbine with 16" barrel to be a Rifle:
http://www.kriss-usa.com/carbines/crb-45-acp
SBR modeled after the SMG. For locations where you can get a SBR.
http://www.kriss-usa.com/short-barre...tor-sbr-45-acp
And the Pistol for when you want the short barrel but can't get an SBR.
http://www.kriss-usa.com/pistols/vector-sdp-45-acp
Note the lack of stock or fore-grip.

The SMG is what comes in one configuration to be modded afterwards.
http://www.kriss-usa.com/sub-machin-...tor-smg-45-acp

They have 4 different "models" to fill the different category's.


Force is Weight(mass) x Speed. You are forgetting how slow the .45 round travels. Why I said a .40 has better terminal ballistics than a .45. Hell, a .357SIG is a 9mm in a necked down .40. Lighter weight round but it's moving.

Only takes one .22 to go between the ribs and ricochet in the chest cavity like a pinball. Most people can dump a .22 magazine before they can place a good .45 shot.

It all depends on if you have the 3 or 4 point rule in your state or "no longer a threat" for how many rounds you can get off.

Originally Posted by sr20sean

Christmas present to myself is an m1a with a sage ebr stock and nightforce stock with a harris bipod.

pretty much this gun:

Going for the M39 EMR look?

How much that run yah?

[Double-R]

Just got home w/it

[Double-R]

4 slide bolts literally 5-8 seconds

[S14DB]

You bought the Carbine model.

[sr20sean]

Originally Posted by S14DB

Going for the M39 EMR look?

How much that run yah?

Mk14 EBR actually if you want to be specific.
Was in Afghanistan and Iraq with a navy seal.


I'll let you guess the price on this lol.

[Double-R]

Yes and no, it's a used model. this specific model was the SBR and carbine later added to avoid class 3 as I clearly re-explained earlier (sorry for the confusion) sales rep explained scenario before purchase. I'm fully aware of the Kriss line up and yes your right they do offer a carbine model but again it wasn't the case for this specific SBR now "rifle".

Yes more mass less velocity etc etc and Yes ANY caliber can kill, didn't challenge that. I'm from Bridgeport, CT at one point it was the homicide capital I know from personal experience not some ballistics gel experience that a 22 or 9 will not stop a junkie.

Again caliber has its pros and cons for each specific use but a whole .22clip before a decent hit from a .45? Lol your factoring a veteran .22 user over a novice .45 user in that statement to get your point across.

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by Double-R

Yes and no, it's a used model. this specific model was the SBR and carbine later added to avoid class 3 as I clearly re-explained earlier (sorry for the confusion) sales rep explained scenario before purchase. I'm fully aware of the Kriss line up and yes your right they do offer a carbine model but again it wasn't the case for this specific SBR now "rifle".

Then why does the build plate say CBR?

[Double-R]

Actually says "CRB" I've read that plates have to be re-issued and approved once barrel mod has been made. Although your discovery has me thinking a possible misrepresentation on behalf of the gun shop. Also wanted to bite my tongue off when i noticed it lmfao! That's funny because they have 3 in stock and are very fimilar with the model. In any event I stand corrected. Thanks! I'd rather have a un-modified unit over a rigged one any day. Thanks again! Lol

[speedgod^s13]

9mm vs 45acp- OVER PENETRATION Test - YouTube
Just some food for thought.

[sr20sean]

Ok so what I thought was originally an m1a conversion turned out to be a real mk.14 ebr....

Anyone have experience with the sig 1911 scorpion? Right now next purchase is between that and fn fiveseven.

[speedgod^s13]

Here are my 2 newest additions. Glock 21, and M&P chambered in .22. The Glock feels like the cheapest quality, of the 3 that I've acquired, and I hate the slide lock. It's so flat, that I'm forced to pull the slide back, to release it. The XD feels very well built, and solid. Shot 400 rounds through it last Saturday, and not a single failure. The M&P feels well made, as well, although I'm not really liking the trigger design. Going to see how I feel about the Glock, after the range this Saturday. But so far, it's not looking like I will be keeping it.

Here are all 3 of my pistols.

[dtfdanyo]

you can buy an extended slide lock lever

very inexpensive part to replace. I did an extended mag release too.

[speedgod^s13]

Originally Posted by dtfdanyo

you can buy an extended slide lock lever

very inexpensive part to replace. I did an extended mag release too.

If I decide to keep it, that's what I was going to do. I just don't understand, why they would design the slide lock like that.

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by speedgod^s13

If I decide to keep it, that's what I was going to do. I just don't understand, why they would design the slide lock like that.

Low profile, no snags drawing from a holster.

[speedgod^s13]

Originally Posted by S14DB

Low profile, no snags drawing from a holster.

That's a good reason. I still don't like it though.

[kyles1988]

Originally Posted by speedgod^s13

If I decide to keep it, that's what I was going to do. I just don't understand, why they would design the slide lock like that.

Well the current thinking is that you shouldn't release the slide with the slide lock as it will wear over time and eventually not do what it was designed for: catching the slide and locking it open on the last shot. Several manufacturer's have come out over the last few years and said that the slide should only be dropped by racking it. If you notice the grip grooves on the slide lock lever are facing up, meaning that your thumb is supposed to grip them with upward force (like when you were locking the slide open to hand the pistol to someone else)

[TitanRb25]

So brand ammo do you all trust to go into your firearms? Do you recommend one more than another?

Only handgun I own at the moment is the Springfield XdM .45 acp.

Range: Blazer Centerfire

Home protection: Hornady Tap Fpd

[VNG704]

Originally Posted by TitanRb25

So brand ammo do you all trust to go into your firearms? Do you recommend one more than another?

Only handgun I own at the moment is the Springfield XdM .45 acp.

Range: Blazer Centerfire

Home protection: Hornady Tap Fpd

I try to shoot at the range what I plan to use in my guns, but if you're just plinkin' for the fun of it, I go with cheap but okay accuracy, american eagle fmj. I carry hornady xtp in my .45 acp.

Here is a site that did some work to help you pick a well performing ammunition. Try and see what works well in yours.

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo