GT2871 USERS. SR motor

[jaysgottaredtop]

Originally Posted by AsleepAltima

It's an easy check - check the voltage with the engine at idle. If it's running 11volts - that wiring is shit. I had the same issue with running lean, wired in a relay directly from the battery to jump the voltage and it was literally night and day. The idle jumped up, air/fuel ratio changed and the voltage was rock steady alternator voltage.

Martin at RS Enthalpy checked the tune on a car he had there with a similar setup and said the ECU was functioning fine on his end.

after getting fuel pump rewired, i took the car back out yesterday and it felt better. AFRs are richer in boost and whatnot. i think that was probably the main issue.

thanks for the input!

[codyace]

Originally Posted by Mile High Silvia

You may want to think about a staggered set of Cams. Seems to be popular right now and that's what I've always run on my vw vr6 turbo engines. Shit makes sense. Great spool and top end. I'm sticking with stock cams for now.

I'm a firm believer that staggered cams are not worth the hassle on the sr20, as no one has the time to setup the cam timing through gears to really know. And even then, the gains are minimal for what you get.

Originally Posted by aga

doesnt the snow performance kit have any failsafes? i thought about failsafes on mine , since aquamist has them, will work like this:

i will have the map over 1 bar tuned for water meth, and below 0.8 without. i will set the actuator's mechanical pressure at 0.8, and connect a relay from the failsafe to the boost controller's solenoid. if the failsafe turns on, it will cut power to the boost control solenoid, thus turning the boost to low, where engine is tuned safely.

The failsafe is to tune it safely on pump, and to use the meth to keep IAT low to make more power. Trusting a produce sprayer for a 'kill tune' isn't my idea of safe.

Originally Posted by derass

Can we make 400 whp, stock cams, on pump gas and no meth? Or does it require 20+ psi, lots of timing and higher octane/charge cooling?

I'd say 425/430 on pump with a 2871r is possible with the right tune and boost. You will need cams, and not cheapy ones.

Originally Posted by derass

My datalogs show my 52 Trim .64 A/R, hitting my full 15 PSI at 4200 RPM. I have read in here of people hitting full boost sooner, ie. under 4k. What can be done to improve this? Is a matter of more timing advance in that range? AFR closer to stoich? Still using internal wastegate.

Boost controller, wastegate, tune, timing...all 4 of them can change that sort of number. If you have the controller soft it'll roll boost in slow, or if you have the gain high it'll wait and throw it all at once (helping spool faster).
\

[aga]

Originally Posted by derass

My datalogs show my 52 Trim .64 A/R, hitting my full 15 PSI at 4200 RPM. I have read in here of people hitting full boost sooner, ie. under 4k. What can be done to improve this? Is a matter of more timing advance in that range? AFR closer to stoich? Still using internal wastegate.

definetly before 4000rpm... from personal experience, having tuned lots of cars, the effect of the fuel/ignition tuning to boost threshold is so negligible, it really makes no difference. some people may think it does, because after the tune, their car has better power, so they think it boosts better. i would look into the actuator first. If you have an electronic boost controller, try setting the gain higher, so the actuator will delay opening. or for more ghetto applications , you can tie a small spring on the actuator arm and the actuator bracket, for more resistance, this will make you run a bit higher boost , mind you.

[aga]

Originally Posted by codyace

The failsafe is to tune it safely on pump, and to use the meth to keep IAT low to make more power. Trusting a produce sprayer for a 'kill tune' isn't my idea of safe.
\

you may find that if you do that, you may actually lose power. water , meth, and even 100 octane gas, burn slower, which makes the engine lose power unless the ignition is advance to compensate for it. the only reason to run water meth is to allow your engine to run where it couldnt before. for example using 95 octane gas we couldnt run more than 1 bar, the ignition would have to be retarded so much to prevent knock, that the car was not performing as it should. thats where water meth comes into play. i can't wait to get finished with the rest of the car so i can get on water meth tuning...

[ultimateirving]

Originally Posted by aga

you may find that if you do that, you may actually lose power. water , meth, and even 100 octane gas, burn slower, which makes the engine lose power unless the ignition is advance to compensate for it. the only reason to run water meth is to allow your engine to run where it couldnt before. for example using 95 octane gas we couldnt run more than 1 bar, the ignition would have to be retarded so much to prevent knock, that the car was not performing as it should. thats where water meth comes into play. i can't wait to get finished with the rest of the car so i can get on water meth tuning...

So much work that can be done with converting to e85 and a bomb tune. Do it the easy wayyyyy

[aga]

we don't have e85 over here... (greece)...unless you become a crazy hermit and make your own out of rotten fruit :P

[EsChassisLove]

I'm with Cody on the non-staggered cam setup. Hardly any benefits after hours and hours of tuning.

[cotbu]

wrong thread my bad!
But i have a staggered cam setup didn't need any tweaking with the greedy easy cams!

The tuning of water injection from from my experience is much like cody describes it, I haven't tuned a water setup to be used for power but for detonation resistance. If the tune is good adding meth, helps keep the intake temps low, we're just cooling the charge. The effects are the same, meaning 20deg up top doesn't get pulled to soon. All on top of an 11.8 -11.5 afr Which should be safe without meth.

[Mile High Silvia]

ill trust your guys' word on the staggered cams. i think it only had benefits on the vr6's because its a staggered inline design.

hey cody, got any dyno numbers with the new GTX?

[Mile High Silvia]

Originally Posted by cotbu

wrong thread my bad!
But i have a staggered cam setup didn't need any tweaking with the greedy easy cams!

The tuning of water injection from from my experience is much like cody describes it, I haven't tuned a water setup to be used for power but for detonation resistance. If the tune is good adding meth, helps keep the intake temps low, we're just cooling the charge. The effects are the same, meaning 20deg up top doesn't get pulled to soon. All on top of an 11.8 -11.5 afr Which should be safe without meth.

exactly. i added my meth on top of a good pump gas map tune, via aem ems. I've told a few buddies that are thinking of upgrading injectors/tune to look into the enthalpy setup like cody has. just seems like an awesome setup. i like my map tho, no maf sensor in my bay

[livelovesole]

Just wondering if I run HKS Step 2 Cams 264 duration with 11.5mm lift, will BC valvesprings and retainers be compatible/ drop in or will they need modifications ? Also, with a stock bottom end, should I go with a stock thickness aftermarket headgasket ?

[Mile High Silvia]

I think the consensus is that BC sucks. And everyone is running Jim wolf s3 HL cams.

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by Mile High Silvia

ill trust your guys' word on the staggered cams. i think it only had benefits on the vr6's because its a staggered inline design.

The Kelford cams are a staggered set. Probably the only ones I would consider to the JWTs.

[pacotaco345]

Sooo I think this is the first time I've posted in this thread.. Long story short I spun a bearing in my stock SR and bought a bottom end with a crack in one of the sleeves that had weisco 9:1 pistons and eagle rods. I'm about to order tomei 260 procams (I have bc valvesprings) because my stock cams are scored to hell and some kind of 550cc injectors. My goal for this motor is 350whp with a rs enthalpy tune. Is this doable with a s15 t28 or would I need to step up to a 2871 or 2867. I pretty much want a setup that will spool as quickly as possible and wont run out of breath by 8k.

[Tom N]

Originally Posted by pacotaco345

Sooo I think this is the first time I've posted in this thread.. Long story short I spun a bearing in my stock SR and bought a bottom end with a crack in one of the sleeves that had weisco 9:1 pistons and eagle rods. I'm about to order tomei 260 procams (I have bc valvesprings) because my stock cams are scored to hell and some kind of 550cc injectors. My goal for this motor is 350whp with a rs enthalpy tune. Is this doable with a s15 t28 or would I need to step up to a 2871 or 2867. I pretty much want a setup that will spool as quickly as possible and wont run out of breath by 8k.

S15 T28 will run out of steam by 7k rpms and will not make 350hp.
Also 260 cams would not be a good choice for a 300hp turbo.

[S14DB]

You are going to fight to get the T28 above the 300 mark. GT2860RS will probably peak close to there. GTX2863R Should get you there easy. 2871/2867 no problem.

That's more cam than the T28 will ever use.

Considering the investment I would go with the GTX wheels now.

[pacotaco345]

Originally Posted by Tom N

S15 T28 will run out of steam by 7k rpms and will not make 350hp.
Also 260 cams would not be a good choice for a 300hp turbo.

Originally Posted by S14DB

You are going to fight to get the T28 above the 300 mark. GT2860RS will probably peak close to there. GTX2863R Should get you there easy. 2871/2867 no problem.

That's more cam than the T28 will ever use.

Considering the investment I would go with the GTX wheels now.

So you two are saying that it will run out of steam because of the cams or it would still run out of steam with a stock bottom end and head by 8k? Anyways, how do you think an 8k rpm, 9:1 comp, poncam (256), t28 setup would do? Sorry if I am sounding like a noob, this car is still my daily and I just want a reliable setup that I can still flog the crap out of at a drift event and do 3rd gear with no issues.

[e1_griego]

It will run out of steam because the turbo can't flow that much air for 350.

[Tom N]

A S15 turbo will run out of steam by 7k rpms and will max out in the low 300hp range regardless on the cams and has nothing to do with the bottom end.
I can run my boost controller on 100% and the turbo will will not make more than 20psi. Typically hits 20.5psi and bleeds of to 18 by redline and I have a S15 spec r T28.
Can wait to get a 20g on this thing.

[pacotaco345]

Originally Posted by e1_griego

It will run out of steam because the turbo can't flow that much air for 350.

350 is not a requirement, I would be happy with ~320 so long as it has a good powerband.

Originally Posted by Tom N

A S15 turbo will run out of steam by 7k rpms and will max out in the low 300hp range regardless on the cams and has nothing to do with the bottom end.
I can run my boost controller on 100% and the turbo will will not make more than 20psi. Typically hits 20.5psi and bleeds of to 18 by redline and I have a S15 spec r T28.
Can wait to get a 20g on this thing.

I get what you're saying. Like I just said above though, if I had a ~13 psi low boost setting and a 17-18 psi high boost setting should a t28 be able to hold that 18 psi all the way to 8k and make some decent power?

Also, just in case someone says my bottom end or these cams is way overkill... I got the bottom end plus bc valve springs, arp headstuds, new oil pump, eagle rods and wiesco 9:1 pistons for a steal. And I'd be keeping stock cams if mine weren't scored to hell from my squirters being all clogged. A bulletproof low-to-mid 300 sr is really what I'm going for here.

Thanks for all the advice and non-flaming by the way hah

[Tom N]

Not sure what your not understanding. If you want to make power past 7k the T28 is the wrong turbo. To stay in its power band you will be shifting around 7k rpms.
Why are you so set on reving to 8k?

To my understanding from someone who tunes 100's of these cars. Exceeding 300hp on. T28 is not the norm. High 200's is far more common. On a perfect set up and a generous dyno 320-330 has been seen.
Of coarse dyno numbers with out a trap speed at the track don't always mean a lot.

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by pacotaco345

350 is not a requirement, I would be happy with ~320 so long as it has a good powerband.



I get what you're saying. Like I just said above though, if I had a ~13 psi low boost setting and a 17-18 psi high boost setting should a t28 be able to hold that 18 psi all the way to 8k and make some decent power?

Also, just in case someone says my bottom end or these cams is way overkill... I got the bottom end plus bc valve springs, arp headstuds, new oil pump, eagle rods and wiesco 9:1 pistons for a steal. And I'd be keeping stock cams if mine weren't scored to hell from my squirters being all clogged. A bulletproof low-to-mid 300 sr is really what I'm going for here.

Thanks for all the advice and non-flaming by the way hah

GTX2863R. Should feel like the T28 but flow a lot more.

Don't need to worry about the bottom end at those levels. The cams will shift the powerband higher in the RPM range. I don't know if you would be happy with the lag.

If you have the T28 already. Bolt it up and try(max) it out. If you are buying a turbo get a GTX. The only thing I would worry about is that your goals are at or above the theoretical limit of 550cc injectors.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by Mile High Silvia

hey cody, got any dyno numbers with the new GTX?

Not on same dyno as it's changed owners1

Originally Posted by Mile High Silvia

I think the consensus is that BC sucks. And everyone is running Jim wolf s3 HL cams.

BC sucks big time. Get the HL JWT cams..

Originally Posted by pacotaco345

,.... of 550cc injectors. My goal for this motor is 350whp with a rs enthalpy tune. Is this doable with a s15 t28 or would I need to step up to a 2871 or 2867. I pretty much want a setup that will spool as quickly as possible and wont run out of breath by 8k.

550cc of fuel is good for 375whp. Go with a 28rs.

Originally Posted by S14DB

GTX2863R. Should feel like the T28 but flow a lot more.

Don't need to worry about the bottom end at those levels. The cams will shift the powerband higher in the RPM range. I don't know if you would be happy with the lag.

If you have the T28 already. Bolt it up and try(max) it out. If you are buying a turbo get a GTX. The only thing I would worry about is that your goals are at or above the theoretical limit of 550cc injectors.

550's kll limits....

[BlackZenkiS14]

I can honestly say that my S15 T28 runs out of breath after 7k you can see it in the boost gauge and feel it seat of pants. On throttle snap is awesome, but I'm going GTX2867R this winter

[aga]

personally i dont like high rpm limits... they sound good over two cups of coffee, but the strain on the engine is exponential... too much stress and risk for a street car.

i haven't ran the 2871 in high boost yet, only up to 0.7 bar, but compared to the 2860rs, i liked the instant power of the 2860... now if the new GTX's are a bit more than the old 2860 it sounds perfect. but they are so damn expensive... i bought the 71 for 820 euros, and the same turbo in GTX was over 1200e...

[jamg]

Originally Posted by Mile High Silvia

I think the consensus is that BC sucks. And everyone is running Jim wolf s3 HL cams.

dang, really?

i posted a couple of pages back about them. i have some BC 264's in my car...

[Kingtal0n]

I have seen Brian Crower 264's go into several SR20 engines. All of them are working well. The idle is nearly stock if not completely stock sounding. They are well behaved. And they will give you a flat VE anywhere from 3800~rpm to 7500rpm~.

You cant ask for more?

Okay, You can. S3's go into these engines on OEM valvesprings and do the same exact thing. They are slightly less lift of course, which is a good thing for a daily driver.
It might mean slightly less VE but... well worth the trade if you can keep a stock spring.

[jaysgottaredtop]

Originally Posted by BlackZenkiS14

I can honestly say that my S15 T28 runs out of breath after 7k you can see it in the boost gauge and feel it seat of pants. On throttle snap is awesome, but I'm going GTX2867R this winter

this.

i just switched from a DBB S15 T28 to a 2871R. the s15 turbo was quicker getting in to boost, but dear jeebus the 2871 has gobs more top end.

[pacotaco345]

Originally Posted by codyace

550cc of fuel is good for 375whp. Go with a 28rs.

Awesome, that's what I was thinking about injectors... I never heard of needing 720cc for 350 hp. Also, 28rs is a straight bolt on affair correct? Same intake and hotpipe size?

Originally Posted by BlackZenkiS14

I can honestly say that my S15 T28 runs out of breath after 7k you can see it in the boost gauge and feel it seat of pants. On throttle snap is awesome, but I'm going GTX2867R this winter

I'm looking for a fun setup, if I'm gonna end up spending 1k more just on a turbo for 50 more hp up top its not worth it for me right now. Not saying I'm cheap and broke, just that there's other things I'd like to spend my money on. I'm sure low 300s will still be fun coming from a stock sr that I only had for 2 weeks before a bearing spun.

Originally Posted by aga

personally i dont like high rpm limits... they sound good over two cups of coffee, but the strain on the engine is exponential... too much stress and risk for a street car.

I would hardly call 8k a high rev limit on a motor with a forged bottom and fresh head with bc valvesprings... but that's just me.

Originally Posted by jaysgottaredtop

i just switched from a DBB S15 T28 to a 2871R. the s15 turbo was quicker getting in to boost, but dear jeebus the 2871 has gobs more top end.

2871r and s15/s15 bb t28 is what I'm debating between. If I can find a used 2871r for around 6-700 I'll probably run that though. What all is needed to run one though? (Intake setups and hotpipe size). I would probably go z32 maf as well...

[ultimateirving]

Originally Posted by pacotaco345

Awesome, that's what I was thinking about injectors... I never heard of needing 720cc for 350 hp. Also, 28rs is a straight bolt on affair correct? Same intake and hotpipe size?
Get 740s at least if your gonna buy injectors. Trust me, if you get a 2871, you're going to want to crank the boost. do yourself a favor


I'm looking for a fun setup, if I'm gonna end up spending 1k more just on a turbo for 50 more hp up top its not worth it for me right now. Not saying I'm cheap and broke, just that there's other things I'd like to spend my money on. I'm sure low 300s will still be fun coming from a stock sr that I only had for 2 weeks before a bearing spun.


I would hardly call 8k a high rev limit on a motor with a forged bottom and fresh head with bc valvesprings... but that's just me.
Agreed


2871r and s15/s15 bb t28 is what I'm debating between. If I can find a used 2871r for around 6-700 I'll probably run that though. What all is needed to run one though? (Intake setups and hotpipe size). I would probably go z32 maf as well...
z32 maf is a must for this turbo, You can get bolt in turbos both the s15 and 2871r can be bolt in depending on what variation you find, some need 3" custom intakes made..

See above bold