My new Wideband (JAW) what ya guys think?

[MegasquirtCA]

BigVinnie. If you read my comment above the pic I posted I stated it was primitive. This system will hook up to most engine managment systems and you can datalog using that engine managment. If you dont mind can you find a equal wideband kit that offers the same features that is sub $100? The next one is LC-1 but that doesnt even come with a display, than your hitting $200+ .

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by MegasquirtCA

BigVinnie. If you read my comment above the pic I posted I stated it was primitive. This system will hook up to most engine managment systems and you can datalog using that engine managment. If you dont mind can you find a equal wideband kit that offers the same features that is sub $100? The next one is LC-1 but that doesnt even come with a display, than your hitting $200+ .

Point is you are taking an item which the engineer or developer intended it to be cheap and you chose to add more devices to it, call it your own and sell it for a higher price.. I don't buy it. If you even call it being primitive than it is what it is...PRIMITIVE. Most developers spend years in there garage before trying to effectively sell a product to the consumer that works well. You simply just caught an idea to make a quick buck, plain and simple.

I'm actually making the smart decision to save my penny's on an innovate LM1 which does everything more than what you wouldn't expect from a wee wide band.

[MegasquirtCA]

Originally Posted by BigVinnie

Point is you are taking an item which the engineer or developer intended it to be cheap and you chose to add more devices to it, call it your own and sell it for a higher price.. I don't buy it. If you even call it being primitive than it is what it is...PRIMITIVE. Most developers spend years in there garage before trying to effectively sell a product to the consumer that works well. You simply just caught an idea to make a quick buck, plain and simple.

I'm actually making the smart decision to save my penny's on an innovate LM1 which does everything more than what you wouldn't expect from a wee wide band.

BigVinnie you do realize I lose money on this? I make NO PROFIT what so ever. All Im doing is offering a service to assemble. The price you see is my cost theirs no hidden tricks. I've lost probably $30 since I started. I've stated hundreds of times in this thread that I AM NOT the creator, I AM NOT PROFITING, etc etc. The developer intended this to be a cheap wideband kit, he only designed the software so he can give something to the customer and allow them to update the firmware. The intended purpose of this kit it A. Act as a Wideband reader. B. Hook up to your engine managment system as a controller.

So I dont appreciate you coming in here accusing me of making money of this kit, and thinking Im claiming its better than most wideband, cause it shows you obviously didnt read the thread as your posts were all false.

Thats great that your gonna buy a LM-1 I've used it before and I know its a great system no doubt it. Yes it may have more features but come on how many people are even gonna use them. Plus the cost difference between this kit and the LM-1 is like 5 times.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by MegasquirtCA

BigVinnie you do realize I lose money on this? I make NO PROFIT what so ever.

Welcome to business 101. Every one starts out with losses. Through learning through your losses there is more to gain in the future..
Anyway if thats the case stop wasting your time. The JAW is cheap and not very accurate and I wouldn't recommend it for anything else than testing stock OEM set up's.
When you start getting into engine set ups that become more expensive you wouldn't want your investment to go down the crapper testing with sub par equipment.
Bosch sensors suck (which NGK does offer a compatible sensor that works much better)
Also to make a note, no one knows this backyard developer of the JAW and people haven't cared to even put it on a level for testing to much more effective and superior equipment, and you can probably answer the question to that yourself.

[MegasquirtCA]

Originally Posted by BigVinnie

Welcome to business 101. Every one starts out with losses. Through learning through your losses there is more to gain in the future..
Anyway if thats the case stop wasting your time. The JAW is cheap and not very accurate and I wouldn't recommend it for anything else than testing stock OEM set up's.
When you start getting into engine set ups that become more expensive you wouldn't want your investment to go down the crapper testing with sub par equipment.
Bosch sensors suck (which NGK does offer a compatible sensor that works much better)
Also to make a note, no one knows this backyard developer of the JAW and people haven't cared to even put it on a level for testing to much more effective and superior equipment, and you can probably answer the question to that yourself.

Umm im not running a business Im not doing this to make money, I'm donating my time to help people. So get that through your head. Theirs no business, theirs no profits.

As for bosch sensors according to a article that was posted on this forum of a company that put a bunch of wideband kits to the test. Innovate was pretty much number 1, and the NGK was near last from what I recalled. I see a lot high HP people using Bosch sensors for their widebands must really suck.


Stop making assumptions and do some research, just because you dont know him doesnt mean anything. He has received a bit of help and guidance from very respected tuner, software/electrical engineers in the honda industry.

When the JAW kit came out the firmware wasnt as great as the current release and its actually quite accurate. I borrowed my buddies LM-1 and the reading were practically identical.

Anyways its pointless to argue, but thanks for shitting in this thread all though their was no real reason to be a douchebag because no claims were made. But hey your exactly the reason why I'm not offering my services to this forum anymore, shit on a person/product because its not High Dollar.



EDIT: Found the thread, my bad bro NGK was dead last.

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...tout/index.php

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=174599

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by MegasquirtCA

Umm im not running a business Im not doing this to make money, I'm donating my time to help people. So get that through your head. Theirs no business, theirs no profits.

As for bosch sensors according to a article that was posted on this forum of a company that put a bunch of wideband kits to the test. Innovate was pretty much number 1, and the NGK was near last from what I recalled. I see a lot high HP people using Bosch sensors for their widebands must really suck.


Stop making assumptions and do some research, just because you dont know him doesnt mean anything. He has received a bit of help and guidance from very respected tuner, software/electrical engineers in the honda industry.

When the JAW kit came out the firmware wasnt as great as the current release and its actually quite accurate. I borrowed my buddies LM-1 and the reading were practically identical.

Anyways its pointless to argue, but thanks for shitting in this thread all though their was no real reason to be a douchebag because no claims were made. But hey your exactly the reason why I'm not offering my services to this forum anymore, shit on a person/product because its not High Dollar.



EDIT: Found the thread, my bad bro NGK was dead last.

O.K then smart ass, to make it short with you widebands have a short life cycle compared to narrowbands. An NGK wide band sensor will last longer with less defects than the bosch wideband sensor, I've done my research. There is less error using the NGK sensor over a longer duration of time. I'm simply talking compatibility between sensor type, not the actual units used.

Also whats the sample rate on the JAW? You mind giving me the answer, or let me guess it doesn't come in the instruction manual.

Now in the case of the JAW there is interchangeability between the Bosch and NGK type sensors. With the LM-1 it is fine tuned to using a Bosch only sensor from what I understand. Now in the case with the JAW and interchangeability there will also be variables involved using different sensor types so you mind explaining that to me?

NGK sensor used for a wide range of wide band systems, including OEM DSM's.
http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...roducts_id/352

[boozels]

add me to the list
sooo down

[xpl2007]

BIG V knows his shit!

[MegasquirtCA]

Originally Posted by BigVinnie

O.K then smart ass, to make it short with you widebands have a short life cycle compared to narrowbands. An NGK wide band sensor will last longer with less defects than the bosch wideband sensor, I've done my research. There is less error using the NGK sensor. I'm simply talking compatibility between sensor type, not the actual units used.

Also whats the sample rate on the JAW? You mind giving me the answer, or let me guess it doesn't come in the instruction manual.

Now in the case of the JAW there is interchangeability between the Bosch and NGK type sensors. With the LM-1 it is fine tuned to using a Bosch only sensor form what I understand. Now in tghe case with the JAW and interchangeabilitythere will also be variables involved using different sensor types.

Im not the smart ass, your the one coming in here shitting in this thread, where were you months ago when this thread started why now.


If I remember correctly dont hold me to it I think the sample rate was tenth of a second or hundreth of a second.

JAW can only work with the Bosch LSU 4.2 sensor, its not even compatible with the Bosch LSU 4.9, let alone the NGK.


A replacement sensor for the NGK is $160, the Bosch is $50.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by MegasquirtCA

Im not the smart ass, your the one coming in here shitting in this thread, where were you months ago when this thread started why now.

I took a long break from these bullshit threads and zilvia. I'm back bitches!!!!!

Originally Posted by MegasquirtCA

I tried to mimick the functionality of the Innovate LM-1 the only difference is mine is just smaller.

The only difference is yours is smaller??WTF?
This statement of yours on page 1 is what got my blood boiling. If you don't like the heat of the comments your getting ,just do the best thing you should do and take it down.

You cannot come close to having a copy of an LM-1 using a JAW, just for reference. It's the statements that you made that are getting you into trouble with your reputation, which I've been kind not to hit you with the rep stick yet, rather yet just deal with the humility. It makes you look like a sleezy, cheezy, salesman.

[MegasquirtCA]

Originally Posted by BigVinnie

I took a long break from these bullshit threads and zilvia. I'm back bitches!!!!!



The only difference is yours is smaller??WTF?
This statement of yours on page 1 is what got my blood boiling. If you don't like the heat of the comments your getting ,just do the best thing you should do and take it down.

You cannot come close to having a copy of an LM-1 using a JAW, just for reference. It's the statements that you made that are getting you into trouble with your reputation, which I've been kind not to hit you with the rep stick yet, rather yet just deal with the humility. It makes you look like a sleezy, cheezy, salesman.

Im sorry but I said Mimick Functionality. Last time I checked LM-1 is a wideband controller with display and dataloging. Last time I checked JAW is a Wideband controller with display and datalogging. NO WHERE ABSOLUTLY NO WHERE does it say its better, has more features, is more accurate than the LM-1 or any wideband for that matter.

Your just nit picking anything to justify your comments. Do you seriously think I care if you neg rep me? Not to mention yours would barely do anything at all, I wouldnt be surprised if I'm back in the green soon. You gotta be pathetic if you truly think thats gonna mean something by neg repping someone.


Again im not a sales person not making any money yada yada, learn to read blah blah.

This thread originally started to show everyone the JAW kit. Everyone got excited and I realized some people wanted to try it but didnt have the skills to put it together, so I offered to help. Some of the comments I made was to help people understand what we're talking about.

Soo anything else? I reread the first post and I still dont see why your being a bitch.


EDIT: Dont post in this thread anymore, your just ruining it and this thread is filled with great information regarding widebands in general.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by MegasquirtCA

Im sorry but I said Mimick Functionality. Last time I checked LM-1 is a wideband controller with display and dataloging. Last time I checked JAW is a Wideband controller with display and datalogging.

The functionality isn't the same at all man... Thats the difference between a $60 wide band, and a $300 wideband, you simply can't mimick that.
I've dealt with the LM-1 on the dyno, and dyno tuned my own KA with an SAFC, the real time tuning involved that you get with the LM-1 comes no where near that fucking piece of shit $60 JAW. You can quote me.
I used the wideband sensor at the tail pipe of the exhaust and still used a catylitic converter, the JAW can come no where near that precision for reading the exhaust gases from the end of my pipe especially after my AIV dumps a shit load of air into the exhaust system.
Now to the developer of the JAW, I do owe some respect to as he has presented something in the market place for people that are simple, and do simple tuning solutions, but no where, I will say it again, no where does the JAW come close or could even be mimicked in anyway to the LM-1.
Have you even opened up an LM-1? It is far more sophisticated than that little piece of shit daughter board that the JAW comes on, it's a fucking joke...

Not to mention that you don't instruct the difficulty of calibrating the JAW for people that have never used a wideband before. I can tell you for ease of use the LC-1 is better at calibrating than the JAW, since the developer of the JAW compares his product with display to an LC-1 with no display. You get what you pay for and the cheaper the product, can sometime come at the expense of some one elses time for tuning. There are calibrating flaws with the JAW that I don't like, and the tuning features are archaic and aren't very simple. When you get into affording more expensive widebands then maybe you will see what I am talking about, as far as ease of use.

You did nothing but hype it up and put it in a plastic case, the developer of the JAW sells plastic cases him self with an instruction manual for install. If not anyone can buy a plastic case at any computer chip shop for like $2~$5. Don't fuckin think about punking me into your little stupid pathetic business ploy, it won't work. Why don't you go back to your 240sxforums, with the rest of the little kids, and come back when you can act like an adult, and understand what representation is. You need to understand who you are and what you represent when you take some one else's shit, take weeks to build it for other forum members, sell it and call it your own. In the process of you "acting nice and responsible, which it is an act"; you take weeks to ship out something that should take you hours, (LITERALLY). There was no reason why members of Zilvia should of waited from what I have seen in this thread, up to a month before receiving there product.
You probably pissed off the dude that made the JAW as well, since he himself can sell cases, and put together the DIY kits for his own device.. Ever think of that one jerk off. Just because you have experience putting together a mega squirt doesn't make you king of the chip assembly. I'm out of this thread indefinitely.



BTW I hope you like that rep I sent you.

[MegasquirtCA]

Wow your truly pathetic but whatever.







I love the negative feedback, but what I loved more is the numerous positive feedback of how many people disagree with you and think your a retard.

Do a search on google for JAW Wideband you'll see its a great success and has been tested against other widebands. If the guys on MSEFI give it the OK than I trust them, and trust me they would put you to shame. I have 2 bungs on my downpipe and I used both the LM-1 and JAW. I did this when I first got my JAW so I can see how accurate it was. The readings were practically identical, the only time where it was a significant difference was when it got to lean conditions of about 17,18 AFR but they pretty much were parallel the richer you got. And that has been confirmed on a few forums and confirmed by the creator.

But hey your the one that fucked this thread because you made some bullshit claims just for the sake of argument I mean seriously your truly pathetic, no where in this thread were any claims, and what HYPE their was no hype. I posted my stuff and everyone got excited thats not hype.

Alan does not include a casing, he puts up ideas on the site from what previous members have done. The only casing thats included is in his new wideband that hes coming with called NAW. Its the size of a credit card.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by MegasquirtCA

I love the negative feedback, but what I loved more is the numerous positive feedback of how many people disagree with you and think your a retard.

Don't think so brah, the rep speaks for itself. So you and the rainbow kids that disagree with me have a good gay ol' time....
Last thing I didn't see from you is a warranty for all this suppose to be free work, if you do the work back up your shit!
Your also getting close to being banned from what I see with your red indication, let this thread R.I.P man.

AllStyle rules bitches!!! yeah!!

[Ninjabread]

BigVin, you have serious issues man.

All this guy did was provide a service to the people of zilvia. All his points are valid, and i have to agree when he says that you are nit-picking his posts just to justify your arguments.

Honestly, you need to shut up for a second. I'm tired of getting the thread updates and seeing "BigVin : blah blah blah my epenis is bigger than yours i have a small brain blah blah".

.

[deuceforty]

so what would be the price for a fully assempled and enclosed JAW? i can get the o2 sensor myself

[frosti108]

hey man i got my exhaust welded up to the back of the car. still having the same problem though. i constantly get readings of like 19:1 and leaner. once in a while under some accel i will get a realistic reading, but its rare. obviously, the car wouldnt be running at 19:1, so theres gotta be something wrong.

now ive only had this sensor/reader installed for about a month or less, and its been doing this since i put it in. do you think the sensor is bad? or the reader? or do you think a recallibration would do it? im dyin here

[Ninjabread]

Originally Posted by BigVinnie

How much do you know about widebands?
If nothing, please say nothing.
Please; I will step aside for a moment while you educate the rest of us.
Please bring some knowledge to this forum, at least if I'm going to talk shit I have experience to back it up.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH to you too...

Who gives a crap what I know about widebands, I'm talking about the way you are treating this guy who has done NOTHING WRONG.

Whooptie fucking doo, you know more about widebands than I do. Does that mean you have the right do disrespect this guy? NO!

Just using your knowledge to be an e-thug doesn't do anybody any good. Especially when the guy said he wasn't going to offer his service anymore. It's not like he's trying to convince more people to buy them, so I don't get why you are still in here ragging on about nothing.

"brahhhhhh"

[deuceforty]

Originally Posted by frosti108

hey man i got my exhaust welded up to the back of the car. still having the same problem though. i constantly get readings of like 19:1 and leaner. once in a while under some accel i will get a realistic reading, but its rare. obviously, the car wouldnt be running at 19:1, so theres gotta be something wrong.

now ive only had this sensor/reader installed for about a month or less, and its been doing this since i put it in. do you think the sensor is bad? or the reader? or do you think a recallibration would do it? im dyin here

check for exhaust leaks, my UEGO was doing that for a while and i looked back and the 5 bolt dump pipe gasket from the back of the turbo exhaust housing had blown through

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by Ninjabread

Just using your knowledge to be an e-thug doesn't do anybody any good.

I'm not an E-thug, E-thugs make threats, I tell it how it is, your just an emo crybaby, that doesn't know shit.

[Ninjabread]

Haha you're calling me an emo crybaby, and saying you're not an e-thug?

Come up here and say that to my face you worthless fuck.

Anyway, I'm done posting here.

[downshift_sideways]

^I can vouch for vinnie. He WILL say it to your face, because thats the type of person he is.

He does have great points in this thread.
For the Record the JAW is the cheap shit base of a wideband.

NinjaBreed. you might need some ice from that last burn.

[Ninjabread]

Originally Posted by downshift_sideways

For the Record the JAW is the cheap shit base of a wideband.

Thats the whole issue. Did he ever say it wasn't? He clearly states that it's a CHEAP way to do it.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by Ninjabread

Thats the whole issue. Did he ever say it wasn't? He clearly states that it's a CHEAP way to do it.

What you fail to understand is the word mimic means to copy.
In other words to make in direct correlation to an existing product to make it as a copy of, or as to work the same. That is as simple as that definition gets without being literal. In this case the JAW does not function at all as the LM-1, nor in my mind does it come close to the LC-1. The only reason why the JAW happens to be a wideband that is put on any level of a wideband is because it gives you the display for monitoring as well as BASIC data logging features that are in essence retarded to that of the LC-1 with no display, or LM-1 when you are dealing with a slow refresh (sample) rate. On any level it is sub par to both the LC-1 and the LM-1 do to the simple fact that the effort it takes to calibrate the JAW is very substandard to todays widebands. The technology of the JAW comes from very simple programming and chip architecture that has been around since the 1980's, and early 90's and if this was the 80's, and 90's it would be an expensive device worth over $300, but that isn't the case. It's old technology built around new firm ware and there isn't much to say about the firmware either. I think the designer of the JAW understands this and is why he sells it for $60 without going in depth about the draw backs that his own unit performs at, if he did discuss the draw backs he wouldn't be selling any JAW unit's .
I also don't like the $50 bosch sensor, it just continues to put the JAW on that cheap short life wideband level. Although the LM-1 uses the bocsch, the programming is much more effective to work with that sensor, the firm ware is that good, not to mention the LM-1 is more responsive to dealing with errors unlike the JAW using that sensor type

Now to MegaSquirtCA; it would of been fine to keep your thread simple and just say" hey if you can't do the DYI, or don't want to pay for the DYI, I can do it for you effectively and put it into a nice looking plastic box". But no that wasn't the case you felt that you had to hype up this product. For those that don't know shit about widebands and look up a retail price of over a $300 LM-1, and then chose to buy the JAW they are thinking they are getting a bargain when you claim that you can mimic this product. It's actually very tasteless, it has no tact, and it's an old sales ploy that you are taught as a business major, or in marketing in college, which some of you are still in high school and don't understand this type of marketing yet.I'm saving the consumer that doesn't know shit about widebands. So while you think I'm an asshole and you think you want to neg rep me think again, I am proposing positive enlightenment, to this fucked up situation.
For those of you that bought the JAW, I feel bad for you as at least you could of bought an AEM UEGO with no datalogging, and a better sample rate than that of the JAW has, not to mention the calibration on a UEGO is simple, and it looks nicer than any plastic box you put the JAW into.

Thats my 2cent's without being angry Vinnie

[gotta240]

Although there has been a bit of flaming, this thread(inlcuding angry vinnie) has been very informative.

[okterrific]

well, I just ordered mine directly from the site. Big Vinnie, seriously man.. wtf are you talking about ? it comes from tech from the '80s, '90s? dude... its a microprocessor.. they have been around since... well... the dawn of computing. If you think the LM-1 uses anything different... good luck to you ! Furthermore, there is not too much to the firmware itself, its a simple mapping of this voltage == this A/F. really really simple. Even if it is a non linear input, it can be modled with a simple formula to convert.

For the UEGO, it does have an analog 0-5v output that can be easily hooked up into a rs232 serial connector. Second, its does not have open air calibration, which sucks. Third, its range is not as great as the JAW kit.

I just don't like you knocking the JAW kit because its not a brand name/ its a DIY kit. Thats just like saying an AEM EMS or even a megasquarts/biki is better than just using a rom tune/ECCS, since the rom tune setup is <200 bucks and the AEM unit is >1000, etc. But then again, you tune on a SAFC, so, I guess I am not too surprised. well, I just ordered mine directly from the site. Big Vinnie, seriously man.. wtf are you talking about ? it comes from tech from the '80s, '90s? dude... its a microprocessor.. they have been around since... well... the dawn of computing. If you think the LM-1 uses anything different... good luck to you ! Furthermore, there is not too much to the firmware itself, its a simple mapping of this voltage == this A/F. really really simple. Even if it is a non linear input, it can be modled with a simple formula to convert.

For the UEGO, it does have an analog 0-5v output that can be easily hooked up into a rs232 serial connector. Second, its does not have open air calibration, which sucks. Third, its range is not as great as the JAW kit.

I just don't like you knocking the JAW kit because its not a brand name/ its a DIY kit. Thats just like saying an AEM EMS or even a megasquarts/biki is better than just using a rom tune/ECCS, since the rom tune setup is <200 bucks and the AEM unit is >1000, etc. But then again, you tune on a SAFC, so, I guess I am not too surprised.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by okterrific

I just don't like you knocking the JAW kit because its not a brand name/ its a DIY kit. Thats just like saying an AEM EMS or even a megasquarts/biki is better than just using a rom tune/ECCS, since the rom tune setup is <200 bucks and the AEM unit is >1000, etc. But then again, you tune on a SAFC, so, I guess I am not too surprised.

Muahahahahahaha..
Dude seriously I'm not knocking the JAW, I'm knocking on hommie for comparing to an LM-1, or to think it can be mimicked, or anythig a like....
Not at all the case.....

Have fun with your JAW.....You have no clue what the fuck sample rates are.


I tuned an SAFC to prove that it makes power with it's simplicity, and not at all am I saying that an SAFC is top of the line. Nore do I make bold blasphemous statements that an SAFC could be compared to a G-Reddy emanage....LOL ... So what the fuck does that have to do with anything????

[okterrific]

max sample rate : 100hz (or for you, thats 100 times a second)
min sample rate : 10hz (10 times a second)
its configurable in the software. From my understanding, the LM-1 is 12 a second, so it looks like JAWs wins this one.

Next, lets, see. the LM-1 claims .1% accuracy, and the JAW claims .01%, looks like JAW wins again.

I never claimed that SAFC was top of the line or on equal grounds with anyone other EMS. I was simply stating you seem to like expensive things with name brands. The SAFC is a good example of something way overpriced for what it provides. SAFC sucks, simple as that.

The only thing I was comparing emange and the like to was ECCS/Rom tuning, and how you can accomplish a hell of a lot more with ECCS for a lot of cheaper of a price than with any wicked overpriced standalone crap.

This all ties back to the orginal topic, in that, rom tuning is DIY, as is this kit, and yet rom tuning is greater than anything you can buy, so why can't this be on par with a commercial product, too ?

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by okterrific

max sample rate : 100hz (or for you, thats 100 times a second)
min sample rate : 10hz (10 times a second)
its configurable in the software. From my understanding, the LM-1 is 12 a second, so it looks like JAWs wins this one.

Next, lets, see. the LM-1 claims .1% accuracy, and the JAW claims .01%, looks like JAW wins again.

12 times a second beats 10 times a second basic math. You also aren't paying attention that is the LM-1's lowest efficient setting when you data log 44 minutes of data is 12 samples a second, it's far more efficient than you think. Your way off base on this one.
The LM-1 is self calibrating, and even tells the tuner when the sensors starts to go bad....
If I had an instrument that clocked 10 times a second I could see why the accuracy drops to .01..... But then your giving up a more efficient sample rate, over computation accuracy which still blows. The objective is to have the highest sample rate with the least amount of error. Your still not compensating for that.
The firmware of the LM-1 is far beyond what JAW has to offer, sorry to say but thats the truth.
This really shouldn't be an argument.
I wouldn't buy an LM-1 because it's a name brand, I would buy an LM-1 because it is notoriously the best piece of equipment on the market hands down.

Now to further more state that an SAFC is shit, it is something to be noted that it works great for any one that keeps making corrections to rom tunes or keeps adding additional bolt ons, it's great for basic tuning until some one completes there build and is comfortable with A/Fr settings ( which can be years down the line for many people). Besides I received my SAFC for dirt cheap so it was worth every penny. Of coarse standalone is truly the way to go which in any case if I had the boocoo bucks it would be a haltech, or AEM EMS. Not some megasquirt that is more of a pain in the ass than anything.

DIY's are fun but they are not as reliable as a product that is manufactured and given a warranty. You can't beat that, and thats why the JAW cannot be compared to products that are backed and approved. Thats just a glimpse of reality for you.

[okterrific]

Ok, last time I am going to reply to this.
1) 10hz is the MINIMUM sample rate. you can set it to 10,20,30,40,50, etc. up to 100hz. This is CONFIGURABLE in the software.

2) My second point is still stands, I would much rather buy a Calum or Nistune ECCS setup than an EMS & et all. Hell, I would rather convert to the U12 Stanza ecu and use an emulator for realtime.