Mosque being built near Ground Zero

[ThatGuy]

It's a good thing Christians have never built a Church around a site where they killed Native Americans and drove the survivors off the land where they were born. That would just be horribly evil of Christians.

Oh, wait...

Well, at least there aren't Christian Churches built around the sites of the atrocities committed during the Crusades. That would really be insensitive.

Oh, wait...

Well, at least we didn't build Military bases in places we destroyed, so that we might continue to occupy part of the countries we fought, and claim that area as United States soil.

Oh, wait...

[godzillarb]

I read this whole thread, mainly because this is a hot button issue with some of my friends. Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. If it's legal to build there, they should do it. If the public gets all up in arms about it, so be it.

We're a nation of laws (at least, supposed to be). Follow the law. If you don't like it, change it.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by Brian

I simply feel that there are some things in life that people know should not be done, even though there might be nothing illegal about it. I believe this is one of those things. That's all I have to say about it.

Well said brother.


I'm like you...do I like the idea? No. Is it probably poor judgment? In my mind yes

BUT

We were founded (as a nation) to accept people/religion/morals/values of all walks of life. For us to say 'no' as a nation to this project simply goes against everything we were founded on.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

Well, at least we didn't build Military bases in places we destroyed, so that we might continue to occupy part of the countries we fought, and claim that area as United States soil.

Sooooooooo true. I laugh when people make a big stink about issues like this, and I remind them 'I lived on American soil, in Kirkuk...' they quickly retract what they were saying.

[EDT007]

I haven't read the whole thread to know whether or not this has been said so here I go anyway. I don't think most people have a problem with a mosque being built as much as the location itself. The fact is there are over 100 mosques in the five boroughs alone! Do they really need one more in that SPECIFIC area. It seems they are doing it more out of spite than necessity or simply because they can. I've heard some hearsay that a Greek church that was around since 1916 next to the towers was demolished when the towers went down and they were told they could not rebuild. Again, I'm not saying that is true or not but I really hope it isn't. For some to say that it's ok to build one and not the other is hyprocritical. Now I understand that this is getting all of this media due to the group that is involved but still. Let me ask you guys this, would you want to be one of the workers constructing this new mosque? Now take into account people threatening your life on a daily basis, petitions, demonstrations,etc. Is that something you're willing to do/put up with? Is that something the city of nyc and it's taxpayers will have to pay for (added security)?

[thrax]

Originally Posted by EDT007

I haven't read the whole thread to know whether or not this has been said so here I go anyway. I don't think most people have a problem with a mosque being built as much as the location itself. The fact is there are over 100 mosques in the five boroughs alone! Do they really need one more in that SPECIFIC area. It seems they are doing it more out of spite than necessity or simply because they can. I've heard some hearsay that a Greek church that was around since 1916 next to the towers was demolished when the towers went down and they were told they could not rebuild. Again, I'm not saying that is true or not but I really hope it isn't. For some to say that it's ok to build one and not the other is hyprocritical. Now I understand that this is getting all of this media due to the group that is involved but still. Let me ask you guys this, would you want to be one of the workers constructing this new mosque? Now take into account people threatening your life on a daily basis, petitions, demonstrations,etc. Is that something you're willing to do/put up with? Is that something the city of nyc and it's taxpayers will have to pay for (added security)?

100% True about the chuch, a historic Church was destroyed during 9-11 and the city has been giving them a hard time to rebuild.

St. Nicholas Church » Home

[rc1honda]

I likes where this thread went. I have somewhat changed my stance from pure digust to more tolerance due mostly to the responses posted here.

Be that as it may, i still think a religous memorial in anyway is still a terible idea. I would rather have a pomp and circumstance memorial that is open to everybody. Not just a Mosque that's open to everybody.

It's the religous undertones that make me nervous not the fact thats it's a Mosque. I am a religous person but i know that religoin played a major role in 9/11 happeneing in the first place.

So build it and call it a Spirtual Center or something, Not a damn mosque, chruch, or temple. Honor the dead and our country at the same time.

[murda-c]

Originally Posted by rc1honda

I likes where this thread went. I have somewhat changed my stance from pure digust to more tolerance due mostly to the responses posted here.

Be that as it may, i still think a religous memorial in anyway is still a terible idea. I would rather have a pomp and circumstance memorial that is open to everybody. Not just a Mosque that's open to everybody.

It's the religous undertones that make me nervous not the fact thats it's a Mosque. I am a religous person but i know that religoin played a major role in 9/11 happeneing in the first place.

So build it and call it a Spirtual Center or something, Not a damn mosque, chruch, or temple. Honor the dead and our country at the same time.

I thought it was being called a community center?

[SlideWell]

I guess they gotta have some place to pray 5 times a day, bankin on Manhattan. I wasnt aware there was a shortage of Mosque's there.
Just because something is legal, doesnt mean its right, its just what the 60 year old farts in office passed. did you or i have a say in it? hmmm. and just because something is illegal, doesnt mean its wrong. its just what the 60 year old farts passed in office. i could really care less about whether its built or not. still think a new megastructure should be built at ground zero, cuz u know thatd piss off those taliban bastards more than anything. be like, ok yes, we lost people and 2 great buildings, but we still have mo money than you, so BAM, new super-skyscraper in yo face.
whats also funny i might add is that im catholic(non-practicing), my dad is Muslim(non-practicing), and no one on that side of the family has said anything about it. i get to hear about this crap on Zilvia

[5pecialist]

Originally Posted by SlideWell

and no one on that side of the family has said anything about it. i get to hear about this crap on Zilvia

Because it's a political agenda being pushed by Mr. Hopey Changey, not the Muslims. Obama is trying to force Islam down our throats, whereas your family is probably busy being peaceful & shit, not trying to convert everyone.

[Quail]

I'm glad to see level headed people in this thread. A lot of the online media are blowing this way out of proportion. Excuse me for posting one of these articles, and excuse the stereotypical dry British humour, but it does raise some valid points:

Charlie Brooker | 'Ground Zero mosque'? The reality is less provocative | Comment is free | The Guardian

I see no problem with this community center (whatever you want to call it) being built, but is it sensible idea? No. I fear the repercussions. People need to detach the Islamic faith from the few extremist individuals that ruin it for the masses, but most don't seem to be able to.

[5pecialist]

Originally Posted by Quail

People need to detach the Islamic faith from the few extremist individuals that ruin it for the masses, but most don't seem to be able to.

It would help if Islam would publicize this detail, or run a PR campaign. Their apathy does not help regular people to understand.

It also doesn't help that the only time we hear about Islam is when it's negative... such as their attempt to wipe out teaching of the Holocaust.

[Quail]

Originally Posted by 5pecialist

It would help if Islam would publicize this detail, or run a PR campaign. Their apathy does not help regular people to understand.

It also doesn't help that the only time we hear about Islam is when it's negative... such as their attempt to wipe out teaching of the Holocaust.

I totally agree, and most do, but as we know, as far as the media are concerned, bad news is good news (for selling papers and viewing statistics). Reporting on what everybody already agrees with (ie, terrorists are bad) doesn't do them any favours. Every interview I've seen with Islamic spokespeople has always denounced the actions of terrorists. What more can they do if they don't get the airtime? Unfortunately theres no PR department for the Islamic faith!

Originally Posted by 5pecialist

such as their attempt to wipe out teaching of the Holocaust.

Again, the few ruining it for the masses.

[ronmcdon]

What PR Campaign efforts would be recommended?
In all honesty, I think the most they can do is host charity events.
Christian based groups do this.
I don't hear much about Islamic groups doing this
(but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist).

Obviously you can't expect ads in the Superbowl or something like that.

[BustedS13]

i don't like churches in subdivisions. where's the angry mob for that?

[Quail]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

What PR Campaign efforts would be recommended?
In all honesty, I think the most they can do is host charity events.
Christian based groups do this.
I don't hear much about Islamic groups doing this
(but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist).

Obviously you can't expect ads in the Superbowl or something like that.

All Muslims are meant to give 2.5% (minimum) of their wealth (monetary, livestock, etc) to Charity each year. I'm not Muslim so I can't say whether most stick to this, but I know its a requirement of the faith. Zakat

[kingkilburn]

Originally Posted by 5pecialist

Because it's a political agenda being pushed by Mr. Hopey Changey, not the Muslims. Obama is trying to force Islam down our throats, whereas your family is probably busy being peaceful & shit, not trying to convert everyone.

QFT






Oh wait

[Matej]

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

Well, at least there aren't Christian Churches built around the sites of the atrocities committed during the Crusades. That would really be insensitive.

Between the 7th and 18th century Muslims actually murdered or took into slavery pretty much half of Europe, along with a great portion of North Africa and Central Asia.
Just throwing that out there, because everyone always talks about how insensitive the Crusades were, even though Muslims did the same thing on a much larger scale and in a way more brutal manner.
Not trying to defend the Crusades, I dislike all things done in the name of religion, just sharing some neat history.

[5pecialist]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

What PR Campaign efforts would be recommended?
In all honesty, I think the most they can do is host charity events.
Christian based groups do this.
I don't hear much about Islamic groups doing this
(but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist).

Obviously you can't expect ads in the Superbowl or something like that.

The Mormons seem to have a lot of ads on television... (not that I condone fake religions).

[BustedS13]

Originally Posted by 5pecialist

The Mormons seem to have a lot of ads on television... (not that I condone fake religions).

the mormons are just as ridiculous as any other denomination of christianity.

[5pecialist]

Originally Posted by BustedS13

the mormons are just as ridiculous as any other denomination of christianity.

No, they are not. Mormonism is a fabricated religion.

What do you have against Christianity?

[BustedS13]

Originally Posted by 5pecialist

No, they are not. Mormonism is a fabricated religion.

What do you have against Christianity?

let me get RIGHT to the point here. which denomination are you?

[kingkilburn]

Originally Posted by 5pecialist

No, they are not. Mormonism is a fabricated religion.

What do you have against Christianity?

Christianity IS a fabricated religion and the LDS church isn't any crazier than any of the others.

That is my opinion based on actual experience going to MANY different churches.




BustedS13 I would bet money that this guy is a Baptist. That denomination tends to believe that no one is getting into heaven but them and the rest of the world is wrong for not agreeing with them.



Personally I'm more with the Jews with these issues.
First you had these shitty Jews break away from orthodoxy in the name of a false messiah. Then an all around horrible guy comes in from the dessert and tries to co-opt your contract with God.
After that both of these yahoos go around killing your people in the name of YOUR OWN God.

[BustedS13]

BustedS13 I would bet money that this guy is a Baptist. That denomination tends to believe that no one is getting into heaven but them and the rest of the world is wrong for not agreeing with them.

eh, I could see him being a Lutheran, but his location says KY so Baptist is a pretty good bet. I was a Lutheran and they were pretty "we're right you're wrong" too, always making jokes about Mormons/etc, but almost always Mormons. "they hate black people and native americans", "they allow polygamy", yeah, read the old testament, it's FULL of zany shit that we don't do anymore for the most part.

i guess i don't really care what religion 5pecialist is.

all religion is fabricated. it's a crutch. it helps people deal with death. that's my stance. i could go on for paragraphs but that sums it up. Mormonism was founded relatively recently. that's the only difference.

[kingkilburn]

As for the so called "mosque". . .

The media straight up lied about nearly every thing having to do with it.

It's not at, on, or even near the World Trade Center.

It's not a mosque.

Even if it was a mosque, who are you to tell any person what they can and can't do with their property. You can take away the first two points and it still stands.

Worst of all is the xenophobia and overt racism.

Originally Posted by BustedS13

Mormonism was founded relatively recently. that's the only difference.

Not any more recently than any of the American forms of Christianity when compared to the older European and Middle Eastern branches.

[BustedS13]

i really think atheism is going to catch on this century. hot new trend. heatseeker.

[kingkilburn]

I don't know if it will be atheism catching on or people just not caring any more.

Either way +1 for that. We need the rep system back.

[5pecialist]

Denomination?! Go home.

[BustedS13]

Originally Posted by 5pecialist

Denomination?! Go home.

you just made fun of Mormonism, a denomination of Christianity. now, what superior denomination are you?

[5pecialist]

Originally Posted by BustedS13

you just made fun of Mormonism, a denomination of Christianity. now, what superior denomination are you?

Mormons are a make believe religion. Sorry.