Variable valve timing - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Ni5mo180SX · 12-09-2002, 12:29 PM

Well it seems Jeff240sx likes to close the threads ive been posting on lately so I had no choice but to open up another thread.

" know this is mostly a semantic argument " -uuic

"but like Uiuc said, Ni5mo attempted his semantic argument"-Jeff240sx

No, sorry jeff, this was a semantic argument in general. I dont know how you interpreted it otherwise.

I understand that nothing may be the same to every detail but variocam plus and vvtl-i all use a third cam lobe to change lift with the variable between them being the actuator for this process.

onefast240 · 12-09-2002, 12:48 PM

What the main question is  is "How fast do you want to go and how much do you want to spend?" If you have a good sum of $$$ and are like me and want stupid amounts of HP 500+ you want to go with an s-13 black or red top. The VVT it the s-14 engines fails over 400 HP. Granted many have built 400+ motors and haves destroyed the valve train but do you really want the headache. The s15 motor hav a more refined vvt that is stronger but the 6 speed trans isn't the best thing in the world. So you have to think how much horsepower, how much $$$ as well as daily driveability. If you plan on keeping the motor pretty stock do an s-14. If you nuts like me get an s-13.

uiuc240 · 12-09-2002, 01:30 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ni5mo180SX @ Dec. 09 2002,1:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well it seems Jeff240sx likes to close the threads ive been posting on lately so I had no choice but to open up another thread.

" know this is mostly a semantic argument " -uuic

"but like Uiuc said, Ni5mo attempted his semantic argument"-Jeff240sx

No, sorry jeff, this was a semantic argument in general. I dont know how you interpreted it otherwise.

I understand that nothing may be the same to every detail but variocam plus and vvtl-i all use a third cam lobe to change lift with the variable between them being the actuator for this process.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
VVTL-i

VANOS

VarioCam Plus

MIVEC

VTEC

While all of these accomplish much the same task, Honda's system is unique in having three cam lobes joined by an oil-actuated pin (Porsche's is the closest to this). I'm glad you brought this up, as I needed to keep up on new technology...however, I am right. You are wrong. heheh. No offense, man. I'm just saying that VTEC is *unique* from the other systems (not that it's any better, or that no one has anything like it). In fact, Porsche's system is MUCH better...its range of adjustability far exceeds VTEC. BMW's new Double VANOS (E46 M3) is close on Porsche's heels, too.

Eric

Ni5mo180SX · 12-09-2002, 04:12 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (uiuc240 @ Dec. 08 2002,3:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">While all of these accomplish much the same task, Honda's system is unique in having three cam lobes joined by an oil-actuated pin (Porsche's is the closest to this). I'm glad you brought this up, as I needed to keep up on new technology...however, I am right. You are wrong. heheh. No offense, man. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
"I understand that nothing may be the same to every detail but variocam plus and vvtl-i all use a third cam lobe to change lift with the variable between them being the actuator for this process. "

I agree with what you've said. They above mentioned systems a third cam lobe to increase lift. The difference is how they're actuated. The principal and intent of each system is the same. Thanks for the review though  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='

'>

Integraholic · 12-09-2002, 05:20 PM

VTEC sucks, VVTi sucks, Zetec sucks.  Its not true variable valve timing, it just changes from one cam lobe to another.  BMW's Valvetronic is true variable valve timing.  It actually varies the timing according to different conditions.  Read up on it.

RedSuns · 12-09-2002, 05:50 PM

from MY experiance with my S14 SR is that the VVT/VTC(whatever you want to call it)....it is controlled by the ECU(duhh) it uses the readings from the MAFS,TPS and VSS sensors...i did 8 dyno runs....and then i compared the different curves....the different boost levels yeilded different results(of course) but when i changed throttle positions i began to notice a slight change in the curve.....i have been doing a lot more research on the system in hope to be able to safely upgrade cams while still using the VVT/VTC systems.....i have heard of it being done...but the tuning is tedious.....if anyone sees any flaws in what i just said be sure to let my know IN A NICE MANOR OR I WILL GIVE YOU A DIRTY LOOK THRU THE INTERNET(if is possible)

12-09-2002, 12:29 PM	#1
Ni5mo180SX Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Orange County Posts: 423 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Well it seems Jeff240sx likes to close the threads ive been posting on lately so I had no choice but to open up another thread. " know this is mostly a semantic argument " -uuic "but like Uiuc said, Ni5mo attempted his semantic argument"-Jeff240sx No, sorry jeff, this was a semantic argument in general. I dont know how you interpreted it otherwise. I understand that nothing may be the same to every detail but variocam plus and vvtl-i all use a third cam lobe to change lift with the variable between them being the actuator for this process. __________________ Mazda RX-7 FC3S: Jspec motor, ported turbo & wastegate, JIC FLT-A2 coilovers, Mazdatrix adj. rear camber link, TB mod, Koyo 53mm Radiator, Corksport Cat back/midpipe/downipe, 3" Al TID, Apex'i air cleaner, Mazda Comp. mission/motor/differential mounts, Mazdaspeed Strut Bar(R), FD torsen differential, HKS SSQV, HKS elec. boost gauge & elec water temp, Cusco Oil catch, 680cc secondary's, Walbro 255, Banzai Racing FCD, RB DTSS Eliminator bushings, Exedy Clutch & PP, Exedy chrome moly flywheel, RB oil baffle, RB dual alt. pulley, 5 lug conversion, FC3S.org thermal bypass pellet, KVR Cross drilled rotors, complete Energy PU bushings, stainless steel brake lines/clutch line, Aerodyne shroud panel, Azenis RS, and some other stuff. A hybrid of sorts I guess

12-09-2002, 01:30 PM	#3
uiuc240 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Age: 45 Posts: 2,093 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ni5mo180SX @ Dec. 09 2002,1:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well it seems Jeff240sx likes to close the threads ive been posting on lately so I had no choice but to open up another thread. " know this is mostly a semantic argument " -uuic "but like Uiuc said, Ni5mo attempted his semantic argument"-Jeff240sx No, sorry jeff, this was a semantic argument in general. I dont know how you interpreted it otherwise. I understand that nothing may be the same to every detail but variocam plus and vvtl-i all use a third cam lobe to change lift with the variable between them being the actuator for this process.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> VVTL-i VANOS VarioCam Plus MIVEC VTEC While all of these accomplish much the same task, Honda's system is unique in having three cam lobes joined by an oil-actuated pin (Porsche's is the closest to this). I'm glad you brought this up, as I needed to keep up on new technology...however, I am right. You are wrong. heheh. No offense, man. I'm just saying that VTEC is unique from the other systems (not that it's any better, or that no one has anything like it). In fact, Porsche's system is MUCH better...its range of adjustability far exceeds VTEC. BMW's new Double VANOS (E46 M3) is close on Porsche's heels, too. Eric __________________ 2002 Mazda Protege5 1989 S13 w/SR20DET (sold)

12-09-2002, 04:12 PM	#4
Ni5mo180SX Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Orange County Posts: 423 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (uiuc240 @ Dec. 08 2002,3:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">While all of these accomplish much the same task, Honda's system is unique in having three cam lobes joined by an oil-actuated pin (Porsche's is the closest to this). I'm glad you brought this up, as I needed to keep up on new technology...however, I am right. You are wrong. heheh. No offense, man. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> "I understand that nothing may be the same to every detail but variocam plus and vvtl-i all use a third cam lobe to change lift with the variable between them being the actuator for this process. " I agree with what you've said. They above mentioned systems a third cam lobe to increase lift. The difference is how they're actuated. The principal and intent of each system is the same. Thanks for the review though  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> __________________ Mazda RX-7 FC3S: Jspec motor, ported turbo & wastegate, JIC FLT-A2 coilovers, Mazdatrix adj. rear camber link, TB mod, Koyo 53mm Radiator, Corksport Cat back/midpipe/downipe, 3" Al TID, Apex'i air cleaner, Mazda Comp. mission/motor/differential mounts, Mazdaspeed Strut Bar(R), FD torsen differential, HKS SSQV, HKS elec. boost gauge & elec water temp, Cusco Oil catch, 680cc secondary's, Walbro 255, Banzai Racing FCD, RB DTSS Eliminator bushings, Exedy Clutch & PP, Exedy chrome moly flywheel, RB oil baffle, RB dual alt. pulley, 5 lug conversion, FC3S.org thermal bypass pellet, KVR Cross drilled rotors, complete Energy PU bushings, stainless steel brake lines/clutch line, Aerodyne shroud panel, Azenis RS, and some other stuff. A hybrid of sorts I guess

12-09-2002, 05:20 PM	#5
Integraholic Leaky Injector Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 124 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	VTEC sucks, VVTi sucks, Zetec sucks.  Its not true variable valve timing, it just changes from one cam lobe to another.  BMW's Valvetronic is true variable valve timing.  It actually varies the timing according to different conditions.  Read up on it. __________________ Variable valve timing is like your girlfriend, everyone's doin it. Christian, aka The Integraholic 1999 Acura Integra GS-R Slower than poo 156 whp and 120 lb-ft

12-09-2002, 05:50 PM	#6
RedSuns Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Northern VA Age: 42 Posts: 1,865 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	from MY experiance with my S14 SR is that the VVT/VTC(whatever you want to call it)....it is controlled by the ECU(duhh) it uses the readings from the MAFS,TPS and VSS sensors...i did 8 dyno runs....and then i compared the different curves....the different boost levels yeilded different results(of course) but when i changed throttle positions i began to notice a slight change in the curve.....i have been doing a lot more research on the system in hope to be able to safely upgrade cams while still using the VVT/VTC systems.....i have heard of it being done...but the tuning is tedious.....if anyone sees any flaws in what i just said be sure to let my know IN A NICE MANOR OR I WILL GIVE YOU A DIRTY LOOK THRU THE INTERNET(if is possible) __________________ Johnathan 2005 Titan 1996 240SX 1991 240SX 1974 260Z 1996 Honda CBR 600 F3

12-09-2002, 12:48 PM	#2
onefast240 Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 27 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	What the main question is  is "How fast do you want to go and how much do you want to spend?" If you have a good sum of $$$ and are like me and want stupid amounts of HP 500+ you want to go with an s-13 black or red top. The VVT it the s-14 engines fails over 400 HP. Granted many have built 400+ motors and haves destroyed the valve train but do you really want the headache. The s15 motor hav a more refined vvt that is stronger but the 6 speed trans isn't the best thing in the world. So you have to think how much horsepower, how much $$$ as well as daily driveability. If you plan on keeping the motor pretty stock do an s-14. If you nuts like me get an s-13.