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Old 04-01-2021, 03:49 PM   #1
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Nismo Parts... a scam?

So with an eye toward restomod instead of track-derping; I was looking at some Nismo parts. However, I have the feeling they just premium priced standard OEM parts.

Example -

Nismo Tension Rods (GTR) are $400, Nissan Tension Rods (GTR) are $200.

They literally look the same except one is silver with a sticker. Then you read the description..

Quote:
Description

The Nismo Tension Rod Set 4WD are a great improvement to the steering of your vehicle. Using the strengthened rubber type Bushing to reduce flex and in turn makes for more predictable cornering. The body of the Nismo Tension Rods offer twist and fatigue resistance while still providing a very light weight and high rigidity.
Features:

Nismo Tension Rod Set 4WD
Improved Steering
Utilizes Strengthened Rubber Bushings
Reduced Flex
More Predictable Cornering
Offer Twist in Rods
Fatigue Resistant
Light Weight
High Rigidity
Part Shape and Materials Identical to Standard Parts
Silver Color with NISMO Sticker
They then both reference the same replacement bushing - Nissan 54476-RS580


Then stuff like this - Basically showing the N1 and 500 RRR Blocks are actually crappier then the standard RB26 Blocks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF1iTh-2u3E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHNBze5OS0c
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Old 04-01-2021, 05:12 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbic View Post
They then both reference the same replacement bushing - Nissan 54476-RS580
I feel like you've been living under a rock for a long time...

Nismo parts are not a scam. Nismo parts reflect several things on the cost side:
  • Genuine Nissan OEM vendors produce the parts, using genuine Nissan stamping/tooling as-if you are purchasing a new suspension part (for arms)
  • Stronger rubber bushings are pressed in and the color is different than stock.
  • They are meant for Japanese domestic market, are supposed to be sold through authorized dealers/shops, and carry a warranty.
  • They are designed to meet all Japanese vehicle inspection requirements (shaken)

https://www.nismo.co.jp/products/cat....html#page=319

Nismo stuff are overpriced because it reflects the cost of an OEM vendor to produce ONE item for ONE customer. You can't use R32/33/34/35 parts as a point of price comparison because 1) a lot of parts are still produced due to the popularity of the car in Japan, and 2) labor is not free.

Of course, if I spend time to press in a pair of bushings into OEM arms and repaint it silver, I can say I saved a ton of money vs Nismo. But Nismo arms are like buying optional 19" factorywheels on your 2020 Toyota Camry... it's an add-on for the car, for someone who doesn't work on their own cars, for someone who wants quality over price.

At the end of the day, if the price seems absurd to you, you are not the right customer base for these products. Me, I'm in the process of collecting all the remaining Nismo arms for my S13 for a proper OEM+ restoration build.
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Old 04-01-2021, 05:37 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mav1178 View Post
Me, I'm in the process of collecting all the remaining Nismo arms for my S13 for a proper OEM+ restoration build.
I actually just finished installing every possible Nismo part for my arms/suspension. HUGE upgrade. My car only has 87k on it and the stock parts weren't in bad shape at all, it was garage kept its whole life and babied by an old woman..but I can never leave well enough alone. The car feels way sportier without sacrificing comfort. Of course, brand new rubber vs. 30 year old rubber will always feel better, but this definitely is an upgrade.

I also installed the Nismo S-tune suspension as well as the subframe bushings, tranny mount, and power brace. Next up is the engine mounts, solid shifter, and steering rack bushings. After all that I will see how the car feels fully "Nismo'd" out.
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Old 04-01-2021, 05:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mav1178 View Post
Nismo stuff are overpriced because it reflects the cost of an OEM vendor to produce ONE item for ONE customer. You can't use R32/33/34/35 parts as a point of price comparison because 1) a lot of parts are still produced due to the popularity of the car in Japan, and 2) labor is not free.
I'm not talking about being overpriced compared to aftermarket parts.

What I'm asking is, how often is it a legit different part from the standard OEM part. I know guys talk about the bushings and control arms on here a lot - and how it makes a big difference.

However, is the difference really because NISMO uses a completely different balljoint, bushing, rubber or geometry then stock OEM - or is it because you just put new parts on a 30 year old clapped out car?

I reference the blocks, an N1 Block is 3x the cost of a RB26 block - with no quantifiable difference.

The Tension Rods - again, 2x the cost of an OEM tension rod - which both reference the same replacement bushing....

I've worked in Automotive OEM for 12 years - I'm well aware why a GM OEM Balljoint is $100 vs a DuraCrap for $15 and the differences. What I'm getting at is does Nissan just put a sticker on a Nissan OEM part and charge a mark up?
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Old 04-01-2021, 06:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbic View Post
I've worked in Automotive OEM for 12 years - I'm well aware why a GM OEM Balljoint is $100 vs a DuraCrap for $15 and the differences. What I'm getting at is does Nissan just put a sticker on a Nissan OEM part and charge a mark up?
If you worked in OEM then you know that after the first 10 years or so (after a car stops production), vendors often renegotiate contracts to produce replacement items.

The Nismo cost reflects the price of ordering ONE tension rod set. It might take an hour of labor for the factory to produce it but the cost to run the tooling is high. I can do an inventory check of Nismo items and 9 out of 10 times parts are always "15-45 days to produce"...

Genuine parts offered by Nissan differ significantly because it's ordered in batches, to keep costs at a pre-negotiated level between Nissan and the vendor that still makes it for them. This "batch" concept is also why Nissan PDC will have leftover inventory of an item after it's flagged as stop production or NLA. "New old stock" is just those large batches ordered that is now dead stock, waiting for enthusiasts to buy.

That's why. I can spend an hour of my time doing a single thing for you but I will charge you $50-100 an hour to do that single job. Hire me full time and it's suddenly much cheaper to pay for my time.

Also, none of what I wrote is talking about aftermarket parts. I'm only talking about Nismo vs OEM Nissan, which is what your post was about.
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Old 04-01-2021, 06:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mav1178 View Post
If you worked in OEM then you know that after the first 10 years or so (after a car stops production), vendors often renegotiate contracts to produce replacement items.

The Nismo cost reflects the price of ordering ONE tension rod set. It might take an hour of labor for the factory to produce it but the cost to run the tooling is high. I can do an inventory check of Nismo items and 9 out of 10 times parts are always "15-45 days to produce"...

Genuine parts offered by Nissan differ significantly because it's ordered in batches, to keep costs at a pre-negotiated level between Nissan and the vendor that still makes it for them. This "batch" concept is also why Nissan PDC will have leftover inventory of an item after it's flagged as stop production or NLA. "New old stock" is just those large batches ordered that is now dead stock, waiting for enthusiasts to buy.

That's why. I can spend an hour of my time doing a single thing for you but I will charge you $50-100 an hour to do that single job. Hire me full time and it's suddenly much cheaper to pay for my time.

Also, none of what I wrote is talking about aftermarket parts. I'm only talking about Nismo vs OEM Nissan, which is what your post was about.
Again,

Is the Nismo Tension Rod actually different then the OEM Tension Rod or are you spending a premium because it's a "low batch run" in silver paint instead of black.
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Old 04-01-2021, 07:04 PM   #7
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I'm not sure if this is really a conversation that has any definitive answer. A lot of it comes down to personal preference. Can you buy a OEM tension rod, push out the factory bushing, then push in a Nismo version, and throw it on and say it's just as good as a Nismo unit? Probably. But that's more effort on your end, verses someone who doesn't want to do all that, and just wants to buy the part, put it on, and have that little something extra over the factory Nissan unit.


The more I work on cars, the more I realize that parts for these cars are actually very reasonable, especially Nismo and OE parts. Even at 400 bucks for a pair of suspension arms, that's not that crazy. I just installed a mirror for a Lexus that cost 850, and an aftermarket headlight for another one that was 1700 because the OE was well over 2k.


We all have those things that we all refuse to come to terms with. For me it's the price of Ganador mirrors, and some "rare" cup holders for 1k. It's something I can't wrap my head around and don't really see the value in it. For you, and what you want to do, Nismo may not be the right fit..and that's fine. There are plenty of other options out there.

Again, I guess at the end of it, it comes down to how you feel about it. If you feel like it's worth it, then do it. If you feel like it's not worth it, then don't.
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Old 04-01-2021, 08:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbic View Post
Again,

Is the Nismo Tension Rod actually different then the OEM Tension Rod or are you spending a premium because it's a "low batch run" in silver paint instead of black.
You can easily Google Translate and get the answer without this thread:

https://www.nismo.co.jp/products/cat....html#page=199

No.1/3/5/7, in the part info it says
Left/right 1 set
same shape/material as OEM equipment (aside from Tension Rod Set)

The notes talk about the Nismo Tension Rod set being unable to use the stock R33 brake air guide (it doesn't come with some clips or something).

Nismo positions the arms as a sort of "upgrade once and never touch it again" type of suspension component. But its probably a scam, who knows.

I explained the economics behind the pricing, you can figure out if you want to spend the money or not.
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Old 04-01-2021, 08:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
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Even at 400 bucks for a pair of suspension arms, that's not that crazy. I just installed a mirror for a Lexus that cost 850, and an aftermarket headlight for another one that was 1700 because the OE was well over 2k.
the OEM lower arms on my 2015 ES was ~$220 each via a friend at Longo Lexus.

full retail was $400. each.
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Old 04-01-2021, 09:09 PM   #10
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Some of the nismo arms have additional bracing as well
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Old 04-05-2021, 12:02 AM   #11
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Typical of Zilvia, lots of long winded answers... let me cut to the chase

Most of the parts are identical with minor differences. How important are those minor differences will depend on who you are. For example:

For some customers, I just order Nismo arms and get a NEW OEM+ components. What does this mean? It means it comes with new ball joints, higher durometer rubber, and silver paint. And yes, authentication paperwork for nerds and/or inspection (if ever needed).

For ME, I could give a flying fuck because the paint is inferior to powder coat. So what I do, is I strip my old arms, fab up gussets and bracing, stitch weld them, and then send them off for powder coating. Then press in my bushings and my ball joints and done. No authentic paperwork, sigh.

So it all depends on what you want. I can tell you that after all my fab work, my arms cost more than Nismo arms. So sure, there is some value in their products. Sometimes.

One thing I'd like to add is that I really hate the fucking car nerds who jerk off to all these parts. Some guys really need to step aside from cars and get laid.
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Old 04-05-2021, 10:30 AM   #12
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If they use the same bushing, then it's no better than the factory tension arm. Idk why they claim "stiffer rubber" if it's the same bushing.
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Old 04-05-2021, 11:19 AM   #13
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If they use the same bushing, then it's no better than the factory tension arm. Idk why they claim "stiffer rubber" if it's the same bushing.
The same Nismo bushing can be used in factory tension arm.

The Nismo bushing is not the same part as the OE Nissan tension arm bushing.
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Old 04-05-2021, 11:50 AM   #14
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If they use the same bushing, then it's no better than the factory tension arm. Idk why they claim "stiffer rubber" if it's the same bushing.
Stiffer being stiffer than that 30 year old bush lol
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Old 04-05-2021, 03:30 PM   #15
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Old 04-06-2021, 02:04 AM   #16
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If they use the same bushing, then it's no better than the factory tension arm. Idk why they claim "stiffer rubber" if it's the same bushing.
what part of higher durometer rubber do you not understand?

this concept is the same for pretty much everything nismo offers for our cars. engine and transmission mounts visually look the same, but are higher durometer.

not everyone wants to run hockey pucks or spherical bearings. like others have noted, there is a big benefit to those who understand and value OEM+.

one thing i would like to note and publicly say, is fuck you to nissan who decided a few years ago to price hike bushings from say 15 to 50. at those prices, they can keep them. shenanigans like these have left a very sour taste in my mouth, which is why i wouldnt be surprised if the company goes under in the near future. there is a huge difference between affordable, expensive, and straight up gouging.
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Old 04-06-2021, 10:53 AM   #17
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One thing I'd like to add is that I really hate the fucking car nerds who jerk off to all these parts. Some guys really need to step aside from cars and get laid.
My tail lights work. Why the fuck should I run yours?

Same argument, presented just as nicely.
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Old 04-06-2021, 04:43 PM   #18
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Some Nismo parts are worth the price, like the motor mounts and trans mounts offer great movement control without too much harshness. Some other Nismo parts, like the adjustable FPR I had was a POS.
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Old 04-06-2021, 06:06 PM   #19
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My tail lights work. Why the fuck should I run yours?



Same argument, presented just as nicely.
That's an idiotic argument since no one is waxing poetically about ixfxi taillights being made with real spartan air by Samurai atop Mount Fuji.


Now if his name what Yuki Tashadi and he lived in Japan and some guy in Option Magazine had his taillights, Hype-Beasts would trying to get $5k for a set.

Nissan isn't stupid and is certainly screwing with the market place.

Why can I get a new OEM R32 rear bumper for $250 still, but a "Heritage" N1 bumper is almost $2k and a regular GTR bumper was $400 like a year ago and now that we have a demand surge it's discontinued?

Why is an N1 Block $6k but a regular block is $2k and there is no measurable difference between the two?
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Old 04-06-2021, 06:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Nissan isn't stupid and is certainly screwing with the market place.

Why can I get a new OEM R32 rear bumper for $250 still, but a "Heritage" N1 bumper is almost $2k and a regular GTR bumper was $400 like a year ago and now that we have a demand surge it's discontinued?

Why is an N1 Block $6k but a regular block is $2k and there is no measurable difference between the two?
I can't speak for the N1 block but the other issues with pricing in the supply chain is not a result of Nissan screwing with the marketplace.

It's a result of Nissan's own financial incompetence, they've been losing money before COVID-19 last year and 2020 only made things worse.

People forget that a factory will make any product for any company out there, but there is a cost to holding on to tooling/molds/etc. Nissan is simply cutting the costs it pays to have vendor(s) continually produce parts, and as a result the parts are becoming more expensive on an individual basis.

None of this is new, I've been hearing rumors out of Nissan's Asia suppliers for years that some of these factories have been in a money-losing arrangement with the contracts, shit is just now hitting the fan.

But for you and everyone else in the market, all you see is unjustified price increases.
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Old 04-06-2021, 08:05 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by mav1178 View Post
If you worked in OEM then you know that after the first 10 years or so (after a car stops production), vendors often renegotiate contracts to produce replacement items.

The Nismo cost reflects the price of ordering ONE tension rod set. It might take an hour of labor for the factory to produce it but the cost to run the tooling is high. I can do an inventory check of Nismo items and 9 out of 10 times parts are always "15-45 days to produce"...

Genuine parts offered by Nissan differ significantly because it's ordered in batches, to keep costs at a pre-negotiated level between Nissan and the vendor that still makes it for them. This "batch" concept is also why Nissan PDC will have leftover inventory of an item after it's flagged as stop production or NLA. "New old stock" is just those large batches ordered that is now dead stock, waiting for enthusiasts to buy.

That's why. I can spend an hour of my time doing a single thing for you but I will charge you $50-100 an hour to do that single job. Hire me full time and it's suddenly much cheaper to pay for my time.

Also, none of what I wrote is talking about aftermarket parts. I'm only talking about Nismo vs OEM Nissan, which is what your post was about.
It sounds like you're believing some total bullshit.

That's not even a long time to order parts and move them around. That's not a guy with a huge factory of tooling and a list of single parts for dudes cars, that's a part moving through a dealership logistics network.

I've read about some things being made one at a time, and I believe it, if it's something stupid and someone calls in a favor. But they've got a bin of every arm you want, or whatever. It'd be moronic to only make one, even if the reason for that order was being out, you still re-up your stock. If it's not even made yet, they don'e expect to sell that part ever again.
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Old 04-06-2021, 10:05 PM   #22
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It sounds like you're believing some total bullshit.
Believe? I've been sourcing automotive parts like this on/off for close to 20 years now. You can believe whatever you want.
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Old 04-06-2021, 11:07 PM   #23
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maybe 5 years ago I looked at nissan parts website for some sr20 related transmission hardwares... single snap rings of various thicknesses to set some clearance inside the 5-speed.

I came back a couple days later to buy them and the price changed from $0.28~ ranges to $5+ each item.

I would say there is definitely some third party software keeping track of viewed items on their websites, and people who routinely update the prices to reflect interest and supply/demand type of information. Take that however you like (is it thievery to jack up the price of something once you notice there is some interest? Or was their price sample so far out of date that it required updating to reflect current costs of storage space, or whatever, and nobody noticed until it came up on their screen as a potential near future purchase)
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Old 04-07-2021, 06:48 PM   #24
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Believe? I've been sourcing automotive parts like this on/off for close to 20 years now. You can believe whatever you want.
You've never seen a part made.

They come from the big rock candy mountain, and you believe what they tell you about how and when and why and how many.

Sourcing parts means as much as sourcing dank nugz. You gave a wad of cash to a sketchy dude who fed you a line about how schwiggity his schwag is.
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Old 04-08-2021, 09:04 AM   #25
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Old 04-08-2021, 09:45 AM   #26
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You've never seen a part made.

They come from the big rock candy mountain, and you believe what they tell you about how and when and why and how many.

Sourcing parts means as much as sourcing dank nugz. You gave a wad of cash to a sketchy dude who fed you a line about how schwiggity his schwag is.
I'm just saving this for posterity.
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Old 04-08-2021, 04:52 PM   #27
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I'm just saving this for posterity.
Context is everything, buddy - we better save it all.

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Believe? I've been sourcing automotive parts like this on/off for close to 20 years now. You can believe whatever you want.
Sourcing parts, and 20 years, are the key bits.

Hucksters say one thing, alcoholics who can't fix a carb say the other - you say both.

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Originally Posted by mechanicalmoron View Post
You've never seen a part made.

They come from the big rock candy mountain, and you believe what they tell you about how and when and why and how many.

Sourcing parts means as much as sourcing dank nugz. You gave a wad of cash to a sketchy dude who fed you a line about how schwiggity his schwag is.
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Old 04-08-2021, 10:15 PM   #28
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Sourcing parts, and 20 years, are the key bits.

Hucksters say one thing, alcoholics who can't fix a carb say the other - you say both.
Sourcing also means that I know what factories make what parts for what brand/component.

We can go around in circles all day. I know where the parts are made, I'm trying to explain to people about the current supply chain for a brand like Nismo, and you keep accusing me of what, sending money to people that feed me BS?

Would it help that I've actually been to the factories that make these parts?
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Old 04-10-2021, 11:36 AM   #29
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Sourcing also means that I know what factories make what parts for what brand/component.

We can go around in circles all day. I know where the parts are made, I'm trying to explain to people about the current supply chain for a brand like Nismo, and you keep accusing me of what, sending money to people that feed me BS?

Would it help that I've actually been to the factories that make these parts?
No, you are the people that feed BS and get sent money.

I mean, this is all your answer to the OP pointing out the same part number for the bushing in these parts, currently for sale - your answer is porsche-grade masturbatory horseshit that denies and/or ignores the points you're pretending to counter.
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Old 04-10-2021, 10:59 PM   #30
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No, you are the people that feed BS and get sent money.

I mean, this is all your answer to the OP pointing out the same part number for the bushing in these parts, currently for sale - your answer is porsche-grade masturbatory horseshit that denies and/or ignores the points you're pretending to counter.
Here's my retort:

OP complains about GT-R tension rods being pricey. I have no idea what pricing is like from a dealer, but let's use Amayama and the Nismo MSRP as a reference point:

R32 GT-R front suspension:
https://www.amayama.com/en/catalogs/...on-chassis-536

R32 GT-R front tension rod lists as 1x 54468-05U00 + 1x 54469-05U00. The replacement bushing for the tension rod is 54476-05U00 and 2 is required.

A quick search of these parts yields tension rod pricing around ~$160-180 each, so around $300-350 depending on who you buy from. Tension rod bushing is around $50 to $60 each/ These are factory R32 GT-R tension rod part numbers. I don't know nor do I care what else they fit to. I am not pricing it out of Japan bc once you add in shipping the cost savings is offset by shipping costs for the individual parts.

Nismo suspension:
https://www.nismo.co.jp/products/cat....html#page=197

R32 GT-R uses 1x 54460-RS580 which is a pair of left/right tension rods, but it can't reuse the brake air guide. MSRP of this is JPY35000 but based on my import experience most sellers would price this at around $400 for the pair. The tension rod bushing that Nismo offers is 54476-RS580 which you need 2x of. Each is JPY6000 MSRP which would put a sell price of around $70-80 USD each.

So... not sure where I'm seeing the price difference that OP posted of 1) $200 vs $400 for a set of tension rods for GT-R, and 2) where the tension rod part numbers are the same... OEM and Nismo are different part numbers. The Nismo bushings can be used to replace the factory bushings in the factory arms (since the factory and Nismo arms are the same dimension), some people go this route instead of buying new arms outright. That's what I did with my S13 tension rods, since the bushings were shot after 30 years.

...or am I still feeding you BS?
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