LS1 S13 Handling and Power Delivery

[josh18_2k]

Originally Posted by Psychomoongoose

But I cant stop driving mountain roads. Thats what I do with my car!!! I wish I could track it but i really dont want the added weight of a cage.

wheres the facepalm icon...

i cant track, because a cage is too heavy (tracks dont require cage), so instead i'm gonna drive fast next to cliffs? wut

[Psychomoongoose]

Part outs make this place go round? Are you assuming that Imma wreck my shit?
I hope not, speaking of haters.

Damn playa whats wrong with Santa Rosa?

And tracks dont require a cage? Where are you from? At my local track they require one.

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by josh18_2k

freshly built upgraded T56's are 1800 with no core (steel forks, carbon synchros, etc)



my '00 pullout was 3800 shipped with an auto attached, back in '04. prices havnt climbed.

While my estimates are a bit on the high side, you do not want to get in the middle of this project and run out of money.

The OP can go to V8Silvia and find dozens of unfinished projects. Daily driveable LS1 S-chassis is really rare to come by.

Most LS1 projects are heaps in the storage sheds with no more than hopes and dreams.

It takes a LOT of work to pull off the swap in an S-chassis, or money. Most times. Both.

I'm on my third iteration with this engine. The first time was a total wreck and I learned what not to do. The second go-round was better but not perfect to what I wanted. The third time is when everything fits perfectly and runs harmoniously.

Most of this swap will require you to do your own research since it's not as well documented as a regular SR swap.

While it's true that the LS1 hs a lot of documentation, the problems you will have come up when you try to work the drivetrain into the chassis.

If you can pull it off for $10k then you're a lot smarter than the average S-owner.

If you can pull it off for $7k then you either have some serious hookups or serious skill, or both.


When pricing a project like this it's better to be high and have extra money leftover than to be low and don't have enough money to finish the swap. Look on V8Silvia.

Now when I convert my backup car, it will cost me less than half of what I spent on the first car, but that's from applying what I've learned in the process. It's not as easy as people make it out to be.

Originally Posted by josh18_2k

hinson = total ripoff. i would never buy anything from him, other than his FC engine mounts (i have an LS1 FC). everything he sells can be had for half the price elsewhere, and his labor proces are rediculous.

I agree. The price for the subframe work alone is a lot. My mounts use the stock subframe. I can pull out the V8 and swap in a KA/SR today with no extra work.

[RacerX1]

Originally Posted by g6civcx

While my estimates are a bit on the high side, you do not want to get in the middle of this project and run out of money.

The OP can go to V8Silvia and find dozens of unfinished projects. Daily driveable LS1 S-chassis is really rare to come by.

Most LS1 projects are heaps in the storage sheds with no more than hopes and dreams.

This is very true and good advice, but when I looked into it further I found that if your PATIENT and look around, make enough calls you can get it done for much cheaper. Obviously most people arent quite that patient but it can be done, your giving him the high side, Im giving him the low so he can make his own decision.

OP-you should definately do it, itd be a blast to drive everyday but be careful!

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by RacerX1

This is very true and good advice, but when I looked into it further I found that if your PATIENT and look around, make enough calls you can get it done for much cheaper. Obviously most people arent quite that patient but it can be done, your giving him the high side, Im giving him the low so he can make his own decision.

OP-you should definately do it, itd be a blast to drive everyday but be careful!

You are absolutely correct.

I have a stock S13 that I was thinking about doing an LS1 swap to. I have slightly below average intelligence so smarter people can get by with less.

If I did all the work myself, I wouldn't be comfortable with a budget of no less than $13k to have a fully driveable daily with all the features that a stock S13 has.

T56 prices have gone down a bit since 5 years ago probably because this swap is geting more popular.

LS1 prices are pretty much the same. So are all the accessories.

Let's price out the other stuff:

Sikky mount kit: $1750
GMPP engine harness: 1700
GMPP ECM: 600

That's already 4 grand on top of the $6.5k drivetrain. You still need:

intake and filter
radiator hoses
radiator fan
heater hoses
headers
downpipe and possibly custom exhaust
speedo and tach
power steering lines
a bunch of other things I didn't bother to list

So if you're already over 10g before you add these parts, $15k would still be a bit uncomfortable even if I did all the work myself.

[thenooblet]

My bad its Johny5...
I paid 2200 for a wrecked 02 z28 with only 52xxx that had a t56...i saved about $1300 to $1500 on that deal but I had to drop the engine myself, but that was no big deal. Im about to get my ls1 s14 done for less than $7500...

I have:
Sikky Mount Kit with alum. DS and solid mounts
Sikky Willwood clutch master cylinder conv.
Sikky PS lines
Daft Innovations fuel system
Bought an s14 lsx exhaust from a guy that wrecked his ls2 s14
BBK shorty headers from a 2000 Corvette then i am going to get a straight pipe welded onto that goes to the exhaust
Mishimoto KA radiator w/ I-sis efans
Sikky wire harness service

and btw I have a brand new Walbro 255lph intank fuel pump for sale if you need it
http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/33355...brand-new.html

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by thenooblet

I have:
Sikky Mount Kit with alum. DS and solid mounts
Sikky Willwood clutch master cylinder conv.
Sikky PS lines
Daft Innovations fuel system
Bought an s14 lsx exhaust from a guy that wrecked his ls2 s14
BBK shorty headers from a 2000 Corvette then i am going to get a straight pipe welded onto that goes to the exhaust
Mishimoto KA radiator w/ I-sis efans
Sikky wire harness service

How much did all this cost you?

What ECM will you be running?


TIP: You can save a little bit of money if you run the headers into a single downpipe and run that into the stock cat. Then you can use a regular S13 cat and catback exhaust.

[Future_gohan]

Originally Posted by g6civcx

While my estimates are a bit on the high side, you do not want to get in the middle of this project and run out of money.

The OP can go to V8Silvia and find dozens of unfinished projects. Daily driveable LS1 S-chassis is really rare to come by.

Most LS1 projects are heaps in the storage sheds with no more than hopes and dreams.

It takes a LOT of work to pull off the swap in an S-chassis, or money. Most times. Both.

I'm on my third iteration with this engine. The first time was a total wreck and I learned what not to do. The second go-round was better but not perfect to what I wanted. The third time is when everything fits perfectly and runs harmoniously.

Most of this swap will require you to do your own research since it's not as well documented as a regular SR swap.

While it's true that the LS1 hs a lot of documentation, the problems you will have come up when you try to work the drivetrain into the chassis.

If you can pull it off for $10k then you're a lot smarter than the average S-owner.

If you can pull it off for $7k then you either have some serious hookups or serious skill, or both.

Not entirely sure how shops price around were you are, but were doing someones swap right now and with parts and an s14 shell it didn't even come too around 7k.

[thenooblet]

Originally Posted by thenooblet

I have:
Sikky Mount Kit with alum. DS and solid mounts - $2020
Sikky Willwood clutch master cylinder conv. - $250
Sikky PS lines - $130
Daft Innovations fuel system - $250
Bought an s14 lsx exhaust from a guy that wrecked his ls2 s14 - $325
BBK shorty headers from a 2000 Corvette then i am going to get a straight pipe welded onto that goes to the exhaust - $250+whatever the labor is to get the pipe welded
Mishimoto KA radiator w/ I-sis efans - $365
Sikky wire harness service - $250

+~130 for shipping some stuff

Originally Posted by g6civcx

How much did all this cost you?


TIP: You can save a little bit of money if you run the headers into a single downpipe and run that into the stock cat. Then you can use a regular S13 cat and catback exhaust.

the ls1 stock PCM is just like a stand alone so it can be completely retuned, so im just going to use it and get a tune in the near future
msglnght..

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by thenooblet

the ls1 stock PCM is just like a stand alone so it can be completely retuned, so im just going to use it and get a tune in the near future

I have not seen the Sikky wiring service. Will you be able to plug in the stock 02 PCM and just run as is? Will you have any codes? What about the OBDII EVAP? Will you be bypassing that?

So you're up to almost 6.5k plus welding labor.

What other parts are needed?

Originally Posted by Future_gohan

Not entirely sure how shops price around were you are, but were doing someones swap right now and with parts and an s14 shell it didn't even come too around 7k.

Does the car run?

[HYPNOTIK]

Originally Posted by e1_griego

Backroads=/= real driving

You're doing it wrong...

[akatimone209]

does anyone know of a wire harness that will work for a ka24e engine, cant find anyone with that harness specifically

[thenooblet]

Originally Posted by g6civcx

I have not seen the Sikky wiring service. Will you be able to plug in the stock 02 PCM and just run as is? Will you have any codes? What about the OBDII EVAP? Will you be bypassing that?

So you're up to almost 6.5k plus welding labor.

What other parts are needed?

It should just plug in to the PCM and run just like it has bolt ons, if i have to i will get a tune and that will only be like 250 or a bit more.

It shouldnt have any codes...

Not sure what you mean by OBD II EVAP? like as in emmisions stuff/EGR?

The only other parts i will need is some radiator hoses and coolant and oil and i need a PS hardline bc one of mine is crushed, and some radiator tab things...mostly just small stuff, that I know of...........................

[Psychomoongoose]

G6civcx i would be stoked to see pics of your setup. What engine are you running? I looked over your posts but I really didn't see for sure.

Thanks again for everyone's insight.

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by Psychomoongoose

What engine are you running?

Generation 0/I pre-1985 small block chevy.

Some baseline measurements for reference. This is a stock single cam KA.

The first measurement is from the rear of the core support to the front of the block.

The second measurement is frm the bottom of the valve cover to the hood ledge.





Small block chevy dimensions: http://www.enginefactory.com/chevdimensions.htm

LS1 dimensions:



An LS1 is 28.25" from oil pan to the top of the engine.

My small block is 22" from the bottom of the oil pan to the top of the valve cover. Then you have to add the intake manifold, carb, and air filter.

[Psychomoongoose]

Originally Posted by g6civcx

Generation 0/I pre-1985 small block chevy.

Some baseline measurements for reference. This is a stock single cam KA.

The first measurement is from the rear of the core support to the front of the block.

The second measurement is frm the bottom of the valve cover to the hood ledge.





Small block chevy dimensions: 350 Chevy Engine Dimensions

LS1 dimensions:



An LS1 is 28.25" from oil pan to the top of the engine.

My small block is 22" from the bottom of the oil pan to the top of the valve cover. Then you have to add the intake manifold, carb, and air filter.

What i really wanted was pics of your setup. I wanna see how you modified your firewall and how low and back your setup is.

[udon!]

Just a thought, but why not just spend the money you would use on the ls1, Building your SR?

[Psychomoongoose]

Originally Posted by udon!

Just a thought, but why not just spend the money you would use on the ls1, Building your SR?

I want something more reliable. I have an SR20 with a 2871 turbo and I cant figure out why its now misfiring. I blew the boost sensing hose off the turbo piping and ever since then, Ive had a nasty misfire after 3500 RPM. I changed the plugs, to no avail. Ive checked all the boost piping, all tight. Im sure its not the MAF being dirty cuz it worked fine before the mishap. Ive checked the coils for cracks or anything out of the ordinary. No dice. Its making me crazzy and I just want a car that runs great and I dont have to hunt down gremlins all the time. I cant really leave it anywhere to be looked at because Its my only DD. I bought cheap NGK copper plugs, and gapped them to the same as Blacktrax (in San Jose) gapped my iridium plugs at, which was .025.......still shitty. Like I said, it ran AWESOME until the boost hose came off the piping. Now it just sucks. I dont know what to do!!! I feel like ive run out of options.

[Psychomoongoose]

civ6cx still havent seen any pics of what you have. The KA24 measurements dont do anything for me, since not only do I not own a KA24, also i know exactly what those measurements are. Everyone does. The thing thats missing is your custom build, didnt you say you have the engine 6 inches into the firewall? sounds like quite a job. I want to see. I have not come across anyone who has done this yet, but then again, ive only looked at like 20 or so build threads.

[jilo]

i know youve only got good aspirations for this project, but man do your learning fiorst. if you cant diagnose a misfire, then id say spending upwards of 15k on a non native engine swap is not in yopur best intrest.

im really not tryinbg to be a dick, but id learn what you have first, then reconsider.

[Mangudai]

^ What I came in here to say.

[Psychomoongoose]

I diagnosed the misfire, it was a broken ground on the coilpacks. Anyway, I appreciate your halp, but its not really something im going to listen about anyway. Good thing im not spending 15K, only 10K hahahaha....its basically the same, I know. Whatever, did you read my first post? Do you own a LS1 s13? No? Have you driven one? Well, thanks for the input i guess...

[gippy87]

Originally Posted by g6civcx

Generation 0/I pre-1985 small block chevy.

Some baseline measurements for reference. This is a stock single cam KA.

The first measurement is from the rear of the core support to the front of the block.

The second measurement is frm the bottom of the valve cover to the hood ledge.





Small block chevy dimensions: 350 Chevy Engine Dimensions

LS1 dimensions:



An LS1 is 28.25" from oil pan to the top of the engine.

My small block is 22" from the bottom of the oil pan to the top of the valve cover. Then you have to add the intake manifold, carb, and air filter.

The ls1 your giving specs on there looks like its a truck ls1 which has a bigger intake mani, not sure on how much bigger but deffinitly sits higher. heres my ls1 with sikky mount kit. it sits very nice and id say even closer to the firewall then my sr was.

[Psychomoongoose]

[QUOTE=gippy87;3646538]The ls1 your giving specs on there looks like its a truck ls1 which has a bigger intake mani, not sure on how much bigger but deffinitly sits higher. heres my ls1 with sikky mount kit. it sits very nice and id say even closer to the firewall then my sr was.

Ya, your pics look very similar to the way mine sits. Crazy, im using the Sikky stuff too. We will just have to see how different the handling is ourselves, huh grippy87? How close are you to finishing your project? I just got to make exhaust, do the wiring and hook up the fuel. Im pretty excited.

[gippy87]

I'm very excited to see how it performs. I've had a 350rwhp SR and it was awesome so I hoping this is equal or better. Also I'm down to fuel Wiring and exhaust as well. My fuel filter/regulator came in I just have to install it. Also my exhaust piping came in so I just need time to make up a y pipe. Wiring was easier than I thought but I still haven't tested it. I'm hoping for a first start within the next couple of days

[Psychomoongoose]

YouTube - IMG_0070.MOV

I need to fix the idling issue. Other than that, just gotta build the exhaust and cooling system, and extend the wiring harness. So stoked! Cant wait.

[Butcher240sx]

I've been watching this thread for a while and decided to ask the obvios qu
estion no oneasked the op, What problems are you sr giving you? Not enough torque I assume? 270hp isn't bad in a small car. I drove my friends ls1 s13 while he was in Iraq 2 years ago. It was very fast and had lots of torque accross the rpmband. Whenhe told how much he spent on the swap I laughed my ass off. I won't tell because I don't want to start another 2 page price war. But it wasn't cheap! I just bought another 240 and if I do a swap it will be for a vg30et from a z31. I had sevral early model z31 cars,and it will make good power cheaply. I can get a running vg dirt cheap. My friend sold the 240ls at a big lossand bought a 95z32tt with 45k miles for 10 grand.its a much better daily driver. Having build and driven v8 for all my life yourtires will need to be in the 10" to 12" width range to maimtain any traction LSD is also a must. Btw most cars go off the mountian front first mabey im full of shit, I like my ka and pop up headlights.

[Psychomoongoose]

Originally Posted by Butcher240sx

I've been watching this thread for a while and decided to ask the obvios qu
estion no oneasked the op, What problems are you sr giving you? Not enough torque I assume? 270hp isn't bad in a small car. I drove my friends ls1 s13 while he was in Iraq 2 years ago. It was very fast and had lots of torque accross the rpmband. Whenhe told how much he spent on the swap I laughed my ass off. I won't tell because I don't want to start another 2 page price war. But it wasn't cheap! I just bought another 240 and if I do a swap it will be for a vg30et from a z31. I had sevral early model z31 cars,and it will make good power cheaply. I can get a running vg dirt cheap. My friend sold the 240ls at a big lossand bought a 95z32tt with 45k miles for 10 grand.its a much better daily driver. Having build and driven v8 for all my life yourtires will need to be in the 10" to 12" width range to maimtain any traction LSD is also a must. Btw most cars go off the mountian front first mabey im full of shit, I like my ka and pop up headlights.

Well the problems my SR was giving me is posted earlier. I had a misfire, because I blew the boost sensing hose off the compressor outlet. Maybe it was coincidence, but I also discovered later that I had a broken ground for the coilpacks. Anyway, after that I got some new sparkplugs and gapped em correctly. After that, It was better but not perfect. I talked to a guy at Formula D about it, he is the tuner at Garage Boso. He told me he tuned 90% of the cars there, and I believed him. Anyway, he said It sounds like I needed a retune. I got a Power FC btw. The engine is out of the car now, and its in my friends car.

Anyway I wanted the LS1 because Im kinda an idiot. I know its going to throw the chassis off a little bit and it has more TQ than I really need. The 270WHP SR was a lot of fun, but it kept giving me problems. I just want to have a reliable, fun S13. Its not cheap. I could have an S2000 or something like that for what I paid. My next purchase is 18x9 and 18x10 wheels. I do have a Kaaz 1.5 way so that is good.

[1991ls13]

could have saved money and bought mine my friend.

[H4ck3d4l1f3]

How's the car running now?