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Old 02-25-2020, 02:58 PM   #1
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S15 SR SAFC Neo Settings

So a couple months ago I picked up a S13 hatch that has a stock S15 SR20DET in it. After driving for a while it started acting up and eventually figured out it was the MAF. So I went ahead and put in a Z32 MAF which I know you need an SAFC to get it to run properly. My only issue is, being so new to turbo'd cars, is how I should have this thing set up. I have searched a few threads and got the basics like 2 in 5 out for idle but anything past that I'm unsure of. From what I know, the motor is still all stock, turbo, injectors, etc etc. Just looking to get some more info on it since most posts seem to talk about S13/S14 SRs with beefy mods. Not looking to push crazy power out of it, just need it running smoothly. Thanks in advance!
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Old 02-25-2020, 04:07 PM   #2
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1. get a wideband
2. find a good OEM s15 maf
3. dont use the safc at all unless you are an electronics and tuning expert, use the factory maf or a tuned ecu ONLY

4. perform a boost pressure test, apply pressure to compressor through plumbing to engine, remove crankcase vent tube first, pop dipstick
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Old 02-25-2020, 04:13 PM   #3
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Yea I recommend exactly what Kingtalon said. I wouldn't suggest a safc unless you really know how to wire things. Plus you really dont need a z32 maf just get a good oem s15 maf.

However if you insist on going the safc route I would watch a youtube video explaning on how to tune. Its not too hard you just need a wideband and understand how it works.
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Old 02-25-2020, 04:14 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingtal0n View Post
1. get a wideband
2. find a good OEM s15 maf
3. dont use the safc at all unless you are an electronics and tuning expert, use the factory maf or a tuned ecu ONLY

4. perform a boost pressure test, apply pressure to compressor through plumbing to engine, remove crankcase vent tube first, pop dipstick
Already has an AEM AFR gauge. I do also have a S15 MAF that I luckily found locally, but good luck finding pigtails for them. I believe the maf that was on the car was a jerry-rigged KA MAF which didn't last long.
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Old 02-25-2020, 04:15 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by JrDarknes View Post
Yea I recommend exactly what Kingtalon said. I wouldn't suggest a safc unless you really know how to wire things. Plus you really dont need a z32 maf just get a good oem s15 maf.

However if you insist on going the safc route I would watch a youtube video explaning on how to tune. Its not too hard you just need a wideband and understand how it works.
I'd love to stay stock and just run a S15 MAF, which I did happen to pick up recently, just can't seem to find anywhere that sells the pigtails
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Old 02-25-2020, 04:19 PM   #6
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Actually I take that back, I did another search and it seems wiring specialties does sell the S15 MAF pigtails, which didn't come up before. But double checking the MAF that I have, it looks like it is the S13 SR20DET MAF or S14/S15 SR20DE MAF, not the S15 SR20DET :/
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Old 02-25-2020, 04:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquirt View Post
I'd love to stay stock and just run a S15 MAF, which I did happen to pick up recently, just can't seem to find anywhere that sells the pigtails
https://www.wiringspecialties.com/s1...afs-connector/

Edit: Tree'd,
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Old 02-25-2020, 04:21 PM   #8
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It's part # 22680-52F01
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Old 02-25-2020, 04:24 PM   #9
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I would just sell that one and get this one
https://www.ebay.com/itm/S15-Blackto...wAAOSw7Rtd8jeY

just as much as a safc neo if Im not mistaken. Not worth tuning stock sr20 with a z32 maf in my opinion.
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Old 02-25-2020, 04:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JrDarknes View Post
I would just sell that one and get this one
https://www.ebay.com/itm/S15-Blackto...wAAOSw7Rtd8jeY

just as much as a safc neo if Im not mistaken. Not worth tuning stock sr20 with a z32 maf in my opinion.
Yeah, already bought and wired in the SAFC neo, but not to the point where I can't undo it. So I went ahead and bought that MAF and pigtail. So if you know anyone needing a NEO, Z32 MAF w/ pigtails, or a S13 SR MAF, lemme know cause I want these gone lmao
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Old 02-25-2020, 05:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquirt View Post
Yeah, already bought and wired in the SAFC neo, but not to the point where I can't undo it. So I went ahead and bought that MAF and pigtail. So if you know anyone needing a NEO, Z32 MAF w/ pigtails, or a S13 SR MAF, lemme know cause I want these gone lmao
I'm pretty sure you're on there but if not, join the 240sx owners club on facebook. I could see those items selling pretty quick on there. I dont think you've reached enough posts to sell on here yet.
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Old 02-25-2020, 07:06 PM   #12
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ROM tune the car would be your best bet. Enthalpy does a great job.

Typically speaking, if there are issues with the car running after the ROM, it pertains to your car, not the tune.
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Old 02-26-2020, 08:49 AM   #13
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Yeah, glad these people turned you around. SAFC's belong in the trash can. Keep the stock setup and if you must get an Enthalpy ROM tune.
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Old 02-26-2020, 10:19 PM   #14
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SAFC has its place. It can be very useful in small increments for lightly modded motors.
It is practically an essential component of effectively using a rom tune.

I recommend Apexi PFC + Z32 maf for 310-500hp sr20, larger than factory turbo situations

but if it still has the OEM s15 turbo on it, set to 12-13.5psi manifold pressure and use the factory ecu/maf/injectors and leave it alone until it gets a larger turbo
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Old 02-27-2020, 06:24 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquirt View Post
Yeah, already bought and wired in the SAFC neo, but not to the point where I can't undo it. So I went ahead and bought that MAF and pigtail. So if you know anyone needing a NEO, Z32 MAF w/ pigtails, or a S13 SR MAF, lemme know cause I want these gone lmao
Good choice

What ECU are you going with next?? So many options out there now it's not even funny.

Also, by the time you recoupe the funds, you can buy a nismotronic.
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Old 02-27-2020, 10:51 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingtal0n View Post
SAFC has its place. It can be very useful in small increments for lightly modded motors.
It is practically an essential component of effectively using a rom tune.

I recommend Apexi PFC + Z32 maf for 310-500hp sr20, larger than factory turbo situations

but if it still has the OEM s15 turbo on it, set to 12-13.5psi manifold pressure and use the factory ecu/maf/injectors and leave it alone until it gets a larger turbo
Why waste money on archaic technology? See below for a much better value option...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RalliartRsX View Post
Good choice

What ECU are you going with next?? So many options out there now it's not even funny.

Also, by the time you recoupe the funds, you can buy a Nismotronic.
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Old 02-27-2020, 06:25 PM   #17
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Why waste money on archaic technology? See below for a much better value option...
i'm looking at an L jetro for my s15. can you give me a quick tldr on why nismotronic is a better option?
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Old 02-27-2020, 07:15 PM   #18
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PFC is ideal. there is nothing archaic about it nor does that word have any reference to anything here. The units are still being manufacturered as NEW and offer more ease of operation than any other stand-alone in the world for the sr20 engine. The things that matter for a stand-alone are:

1. how the computer communicates with the trigger system, and how well it is able to decipher that signal from noise. Many stand-alones (AEM and Megasquirt come to mind) have great difficulty with this not so simple task. Even the AEM engineers can't seem figure out how to do it using the OEM disc.

2. how the computer deals with the ignition system i.e. dwell, noise, spark/signal saturation, etc... is a common trouble spot for Japanese engines using stand-alone computers.
3. how easy it is to correct and tune the engine given the complexity of modern SEQEFI systems, as the PFC uses both a MAF and hand-held it is among the easiest, or is the easiest, in the world.

The pfc does these things better than any computer in the world IMO. It is superior to Haltech, Megasquirt, AEM, etc... with respect to trigger stability and ease of tuning capability. There is nothing out there that even comes close for 500hp sr20det engines.



PFC allows instant/real time tuning while you drive, just like a typical stand-alone, except that it offers a hand-held device which also doubled as a series of 'gauges' , it reads coolant temp/iat/KPA/tps/etc, which no other stand alone offers, along with the easy tuning of a voltage based MAF sensor system, with both a fuel map and pressure based correction

In other words, someone can tune a PFC in under an hour for any 500~hp sr20det, while it also supplies the necessary signals to run the OEM CAS and coils, and all using a hand-held device which negates the need for a laptop in the car. Ever.

There is nothing superior for this power range on this engine. Even Haltech, which offers far more features and OEM-like stability, offers nothing new in terms of trigger, compatibility, and takes longer to tune with a broader learning curve, as there are far more settings and options to be aware of and one may wish to use a MAP sensor at that point (might as well). Thus the PFC is still 'faster' and more 'user friendly' and still has the benefit of the hand-held device which speaks for itself.
While a Haltech is superior in terms of power/potential (as many stand-alone units are) you have to be making over 550hp with the sr20 to warrant this as a feature, and while below that power level it doesn't offer anything over the PFC unless you specifically need it for some critical functions, such as E85 compatibility or map switching for racing/ different fuels/etc... And since the pfc does incredibly well until around 500hp , the breaking point for most MAF based street driven cars, it is preferable to use in those situations on gasoline.

I would skip the nismotronic and most others. Either use the PFC or jump to the Haltech and go E85 550hp+. Those are my two recommendations.

Finally one more reason for PFC vote, you can find them on ebay for $350~ ranges sometimes. The S15 engine can use the S14 harness, valve cover, coils, and computer, so keep that in mind if you find a "NA" or "WC" style pfc (95-98 model sr20det S14) Switch the harness/coils/valvecover and use the cheaper PFC for the S14 on the S15 engine if necessary. This is also great for re-sale value, say you decide later to get a haltech and switch to flex-fuel, you can easily sell the s14 pfc whereas the s15 pfc is a difficult sell, its more rare.
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Old 02-27-2020, 07:34 PM   #19
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Out of curiosity I checked out nismotronic website and it says:

Supported ECUs:

91-93 Nissan Sentra/SE-R/NX2000/Pulsar B13,N14,N15 SR20DE Manual
ECU Part Nos: 64Y00, 64Y01, 67Y00, 68C00, 1N960

91-93 Infiniti G20 P10 SR20DE Manual
ECU Part Nos: 62J00, 62J01, 77J00

91-93 Nissan 240sx S13 SR20DET Manual
ECU Part Nos: 50F00, 50F01, 50F05

91-94 Nissan 240sx S13 KA24DE Manual
ECU Part Nos: 53F00, 53F01

Nissan Pulsar RNN14 SR20DET
ECU Part Nos: 54C00, 54C60

---------------------------------
So unless they changed it and forgot to update their site I am not sure it will even work for the s15 ecu
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Old 02-28-2020, 10:36 AM   #20
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My gripe with PFC is it only sends signals to the engine, and doesn't care how the engine is responding really. Basically a PFC will gladly blow your engine up and not care while it's doing it, there are zero failsafes.

Also Martin at RS recommends removing any SAFC you might have when installing his ECU. Hell i had an SAFC with everything set to 0%, no corrections, and chasing a hesitation issue that was solved by removing the SAFC entirely. As Martin recommended me to do in the first place. It's always interrupting your signals.
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Old 02-28-2020, 07:25 PM   #21
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My gripe with PFC is it only sends signals to the engine, and doesn't care how the engine is responding really. Basically a PFC will gladly blow your engine up and not care while it's doing it, there are zero failsafes.

Also Martin at RS recommends removing any SAFC you might have when installing his ECU. Hell i had an SAFC with everything set to 0%, no corrections, and chasing a hesitation issue that was solved by removing the SAFC entirely. As Martin recommended me to do in the first place. It's always interrupting your signals.
I've had great success using the safc. I think you just need to know what you are doing, and how badly you need it or not.

You can't adjust a rom tune on the fly, you have to send it back to the tuner in the mail. So a safc is the only way to really dial in a rom tune, if its off even in the slightest.

This has nothing to do with the tuner, btw. Martin tunes all the computers 'the same' and it can give several different results on several different engines because there are variances/differences in every maf sensor and the pressure situation around/near the turbo, including variables involving the bypass placement and other small details.
So one rom tuned ecu could be spot on one engine and completely wrong on the same exact setup for ten other cars.

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My gripe with PFC is it only sends signals to the engine, and doesn't care how the engine is responding really. Basically a PFC will gladly blow your engine up and not care while it's doing it, there are zero failsafes.
The same goes for majority of stock computers, such as HPtuners on the OEM ecu which many use to tune their 500-1200hp LS engines. Yesterday as I was getting off the highway I hit it in third and the wastegate line blew off, the car took off so violently I thought for sure something was broken when I finally let up. It felt so good I couldn't take my foot off the pedal for a couple seconds though. The point being, no it didn't blow up because as an experienced tuner I set the final couple rows of my fuel map excessively rich just in case something like that happens. You have to think in advance what could happen, the gate in this case was still lifting due to exhaust gas pressure so maybe I got 22psi instead of the 14psi I wanted, but the map was so rich it was still 'tuned right' for those couple of seconds. A nice big cloud of dark smoke behind me was a helpful indicator since I didn't get a chance to glance at the wideband.

So more to the point. there are still several things you as an individual can do about 'failsafes' for these type of situations. For example, using an Arduino microcontroller -$20 to $40 unit- it is possible to tap into the map sensor -or maf sensor- and read the ADC using code, apply a fuel cut for when the sensor taps out at maf voltage for example. Another option is fuel cut safety switch -fuel pressure safety switch- type of units which open or close depending on the pressure as another example.

there are a bunch of ways to protect your engine and drivetrain with a little bit of thought and effort, having those features integrated with the ECU is nice but unnecessary for the savvy user.
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