STL Riots

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by S14DB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.[1][2]

Care to apologize?

[VROOOM]

he probably put that up there because you called it Cognitive Dissidents

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by VROOOM

he probably put that up there because you called it Cognitive Dissidents

I did didn't I. Sorry myself, fucking iPhone autocorrect.

Back on topic, 11 shots huh. The 5 that missed could have struck bystanders.

[VNG704]

@leg1t's FB insert.

What I don't understand is that, though true, some of them (black community) will do those horrible things, racist people like Catherine Nardi can't seem to understand that what she said(or similar) can be said about any race. It just blows my mind how blind and/or hypocritical people can be. Hate like racism will always be around because we can't stop labeling each other. /rant

[HORShi]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

I did didn't I. Sorry myself, fucking iPhone autocorrect.

Back on topic, 11 shots huh. The 5 that missed could have struck bystanders.

Yes I counted 10/11 shots also from the video. The first 6 shots was in rapid succession...I would speculate this during the "struggle" that supposedly happened and I'm sure at least one of those shots made contact. But after the pause or "hesitation" the next 4-5 rounds of fire definitely seemed more "controlled" compared to the first 6.

Once again only I can only speculate, this is when M. Brown hands was up "as the witnesses mentioned" and Officer Darren Wilson fired the last 4-5 to "neutralize" the threat. Which I'm also speculating this is when he took those 2 head shots. Unless he graze Michael Brown before...which if that is the case, I'm pretty sure he would been on the ground way before hand. I don't know many people who have got grazed in the skull and didn't fall, resist or fight back after that.

[LEG1T]

Originally Posted by HORShi

I posted the article link above in my previous post...but here is the embedded clip of the gun shots that POSSIBLY was the encounter of the officer and Michael Brown at the time. The hesitation of shots is the big topic and debate.

@LEG1T

Please tell me that's not a real Facebook post man???

"Feral & Violent"?..."They murder their unborn babies"?

oh yea this what got me...."They hate police officers and murder some of them, even black ones"?

...this old ass broad need to do society a favor and execute herself.

Sadly this was indeed a real Facebook post from an Author at that. The worst part about this is that a person with this mindset is the person that breeds hate. Imagine how a parent like this would raise there kids, it's disgusting.

Originally Posted by VNG704

@leg1t's FB insert.

What I don't understand is that, though true, some of them (black community) will do those horrible things, racist people like Catherine Nardi can't seem to understand that what she said(or similar) can be said about any race. It just blows my mind how blind and/or hypocritical people can be. Hate like racism will always be around because we can't stop labeling each other. /rant

It's a sad thing man, to know that someone has judged you as a person even before you have even opened your mouth solely based on skin color.

@Horshi . I am very curious as to your stance on this and please forgive me if i have missed it. What is your take on the way the officer handled this situation, just on what you know?

[HORShi]

Originally Posted by LEG1T

@Horshi . I am very curious as to your stance on this and please forgive me if i have missed it. What is your take on the way the officer handled this situation, just on what you know?

Your cool man, pretty much I feel that there is too many loop holes in this situation for me to actually judge. The audio tape of the tape is the first real kind of evidence that will be monumental into finding out more information.

Concerning with the way the officer handling the situation...what I will say, that after hearing recording of the incident and also the other incident in St. Louis with the cops killing another black male (pumping 9 rounds in him on video), there needs to be a thorough investigation of both St. Louis and Ferguson PD. There is SIMPLY NO REASONING to unload 9+ shots to "neutralize" the threat. Especially if the "threat" is unarmed. It's simply not justifiable. Seriously I'm starting to think the other witnesses (Mike's friend Johnson and the other two ladies I believe) testimonies isn't far off. There was a moment of contemplation I would speculate within that pause of the shooting and leads me to assume that those last 4-5 shots were kill shots.

[HORShi]

What puzzles me still is exactly why the officer stopped Mike? and if it really because of "J-Walking", then maybe I need to start wearing a Kevlar vest the next time I walk across street illegally (which everyone does...me, kids in school, "thugs", your mother, businessmen etc etc etc). I'm starting to believe there was some racial profiling during this whole ordeal now. The "strong-arm robbery" to me is irrelevant at this point because the officer (which was said on TV) had no prior knowledge of this, nor it was radioed in by dispatch.

But once again...I make all my accusations just from what I speculate. The truth is there but everyone is skewing the exact and real truth, to make it fit their agenda.

As I mentioned in my previous post, this country still has not moved upon our past. I would never picture the bitter intense "shot" of racism to be sparked from this...from BOTH sides. It's 2014...not 1964. This shit is so pathetic and embarrassing. Apparently this Ferguson issue is vastly deeper than any of us understand and shows that we still have not come about face with our skeletons in the closet. Have any of us lived in Ferguson? have any of us experience racial profiling? have any of us lived in a socioeconomic deprived environment? predominantly black low income/poor neighborhood? predominately Hispanic/white low income/poor neighborhoods?

at the end of the day, I THINK TOO MANY PEOPLE GIVE THEIR JUDGEMENT...not OPINION.

Giving a judgement is very different from giving an opinion about something. This is what makes situations such as we have here, provoke hate amongst ourselves as the human race and bring out people's true colors in where they stand.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by HORShi

What puzzles me still is exactly why the officer stopped Mike?

If I understand correctly the two guys where not crossing the street but walking in the middle of it. I don't find that two hard to believe as I see people doing that all the time around here after midnight in the downtown area.

Originally Posted by HORShi

and if it really because of "J-Walking", then maybe I need to start wearing a Kevlar vest the next time I walk across street illegally (which everyone does...me, kids in school, "thugs", your mother, businessmen etc etc etc).

Or just don't kick the cops door and get in an argument with him when he tells you to "get the fuck out of the street".

That part of the story is not up for debate, both sides agree to what happening. The cop stopped, told them to "Get the fuck out of the street" and words then got exchanged. When the cop tried to get out of the door Brown kicked it back in and there was a tussle - now the Friend states the cop pulled Brown into the car and discharged his weapon trying to draw it on them, the cop argues Brown discharged his weapon when he reached in the car for for it.

Ballistics will be critical in this case. It will show the trajectory of the round inside the cop car, it will show at what angle the rounds hit Brown and how he was standing latter.

Originally Posted by HORShi

I'm starting to believe there was some racial profiling during this whole ordeal now. The "strong-arm robbery" to me is irrelevant at this point because the officer (which was said on TV) had no prior knowledge of this, nor it was radioed in by dispatch.

What is "Racial Profiling" about yelling at two guys to get out of the street? Do you think he would not have yelled at them had they been white, asian or latino?

The Cops knowledge of the robbery is actually very important, in that HE DIDN'T KNOW. Several experts have already stated that is what may have potentially made the situation dangerous and may have been why (if he did) Brown "attacked" the cop. Brown new of the robbery and had no way of knowing if the cop knew or not, this put Brown on edge. Not knowing Brown was "on edge" would mean the cop wasn't seeing this as a "Dangerous situation" and is why he engaged the two men so "casually".

Originally Posted by HORShi

But once again...I make all my accusations just from what I speculate. The truth is there but everyone is skewing the exact and real truth, to make it fit their agenda.

Thats why there is really no point getting upset until we see the actual recreation of events based on the forensic information. If the cop shot the fleeing brown before he turned around, casing placement, blood drops and entry wounds will show that. Entry wounds will also indicate which shots hit Brown and when and how Brown was standing in relation to the Cop.

It's hard to trust any wittiness. Obviously Browns friends and others may want the cop in jail... obviously the Cop doesn't want to go to jail.

Originally Posted by HORShi

have any of us experience racial profiling?

Yes, 1 88 U is assuming I'm white and therefore a racist.

Originally Posted by HORShi

have any of us lived in a socioeconomic deprived environment?

YUP

Originally Posted by HORShi

predominantly black low income/poor neighborhood? predominately Hispanic/white low income/poor neighborhoods?

27% Black, 14% Hispanic

Originally Posted by HORShi

at the end of the day, I THINK TOO MANY PEOPLE GIVE THEIR JUDGEMENT...not OPINION.

Not sure I follow you on this one..

Originally Posted by HORShi

Giving a judgement is very different from giving an opinion about something. This is what makes situations such as we have here, provoke hate amongst ourselves as the human race and bring out people's true colors in where they stand.

Neither should be aloud in this situation. Yours and Mine OPINIONS do not matter regarding the circumstances of Mr. Browns death. That is the problem, everyone has their half-baked ideas about what went down and are trying to fill the pieces of the story with their own bullshit projections. One side FEELs like the cop was out trolling for young black men to line up and murder in the streets for yucks and grins. The other side thinks cops can do no wrong and the fact that the cop shot Brown means Brown deserved to die.



This one is just for your I 88 U,

Should SLC be out protesting?



http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/black-cop...dia-hide-race/

Interesting how the media fails to mention the cop was Black and the department is refusing to give up the body-cam footage...

[HORShi]

Originally Posted by Corbic

If I understand correctly the two guys where not crossing the street but walking in the middle of it. I don't find that two hard to believe as I see people doing that all the time around here after midnight in the downtown area.

I thought Johnson said they was preparing to cross the street as their destination was relatively close. If he didn't say this, I apologize for this mislead of information. I'm going to try and find that article.

Originally Posted by Corbic

Or just don't kick the cops door and get in an argument with him when he tells you to "get the fuck out of the street".

That part of the story is not up for debate, both sides agree to what happening. The cop stopped, told them to "Get the fuck out of the street" and words then got exchanged. When the cop tried to get out of the door Brown kicked it back in and there was a tussle - now the Friend states the cop pulled Brown into the car and discharged his weapon trying to draw it on them, the cop argues Brown discharged his weapon when he reached in the car for for it.

Ballistics will be critical in this case. It will show the trajectory of the round inside the cop car, it will show at what angle the rounds hit Brown and how he was standing latter.

Once again, I thought Johnson said that the Officer Wilson open his door so aggressively that it hit Michael and "rebounded" back to the officer. It's very unfortunately that we only have 2 testimonies that where actually in the heat of the moment where everything is blurred.

Not to bring an off topic issue, but this is why I believe mandatory cameras (specifically dashcams) should be required for the police (since Ferguson does not have any). With the proper written policy to avoid loopholes, and set a time limit for the for when the legal (law enforcement or the recording of the illegal act) should be release to the public (maybe after 48 hours?), unless judge mandates otherwise. Because even with ballistics and audio recording of the shots everything is still based of speculation and stories. Not to mention there is a possible issue of police misconduct/behavior, which is also not clear either. Their is only 3 people who knows fully what happen...one is dead, Dorain is Mike's friend, and Darren Wilson is a cop. In ALOT of cases (such as car crashes and the driver's blaming each other for being at fault) either one can change their story, modify it or change small details for either being under constant straining pressure, covering up or to protect someone.

Here's that article by the way, I'm pretty sure you may have seen it:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/us/mis...-what-we-know/

Originally Posted by Corbic

What is "Racial Profiling" about yelling at two guys to get out of the street? Do you think he would not have yelled at them had they been white, asian or latino?

The Cops knowledge of the robbery is actually very important, in that HE DIDN'T KNOW. Several experts have already stated that is what may have potentially made the situation dangerous and may have been why (if he did) Brown "attacked" the cop. Brown new of the robbery and had no way of knowing if the cop knew or not, this put Brown on edge. Not knowing Brown was "on edge" would mean the cop wasn't seeing this as a "Dangerous situation" and is why he engaged the two men so "casually".

responding to the first part, the approaching or engaging the situation with the words and yelling "get the fuck out the street" is absolutely unnecessary and by any means not casual or normal. Why couldn't he say "Hey, can you guys walk on the sidewalk, your obstructing traffic"? I would bet the situation wouldn't had escalated instantly as it did at that point or escalated at all. The officer choose the wrong choice of words in this situation. As much

and secondly, do I think if it was white, Asian or any other race be approached in that manner that the officer did? Honestly, I truly don't know...but I will say and bet, that the approach of the officer or rather "choice of words" may have been different. This to me is why I speculate that the robbery is not major factor in my opinion, since we can't ask Michael Brown why he "attack" the officer, given of course IF he really did attacked the officer (the officer could be trying to muscle and be an asshole), because of the questionable, up for dispute actions that happen with the officer and Michael during this time.

Seriously, if you happen to be walking the street, almost arriving to your destination, preparing to cross the street and a officer, yelling at you saying "get the fuck off the street", anyone of us would feel some type of resentment, I know I would. Just wrong approach on the officer end to a really simple, should have been harmless and low interaction situation

Originally Posted by Corbic

Thats why there is really no point getting upset until we see the actual recreation of events based on the forensic information. If the cop shot the fleeing brown before he turned around, casing placement, blood drops and entry wounds will show that. Entry wounds will also indicate which shots hit Brown and when and how Brown was standing in relation to the Cop.

It's hard to trust any wittiness. Obviously Browns friends and others may want the cop in jail... obviously the Cop doesn't want to go to jail.

Well I do know according to the preliminary autopsies of Dr. Michael Baden, the assistant Shawn L. Parcells said their is a wound to the right arm that is consistent with Brown having his back turned to the officer, in a defensive position or having his hands up. So I reckon we must wait for full in-depth federal autopsy to come out to truly go any further.

Here is the source to that: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/...uri-protesters

and I agree with you on the second line. As I mentioned in an earlier response, between the constant pressures, possible coverups, and the need to protect someone, both Johnson and Wilson is subjected to change, manipulate or "Come out with the truth". Everything is up in mist.

I think the main reason of why people is upset, and I specifically mean the people of Ferguson, is because 1) The way the situation was handled, which includes the dialogue, the aftermath of the shooting (the carelessness of his body, the riots and the almost martial-law like mentality that the Ferguson/St. Louis police exhibited in public, on TV for the entire country to see. 2) The spontaneous burst of racism that occurred from the situation. (Which I myself personally did not expect to surge this bad, its actually very embarrasing)

Originally Posted by Corbic

Yes, 1 88 U is assuming I'm white and therefore a racist.

lol, I plead the 5th on this one. I'm out of that equation between you and 1 88 U man lol.

Originally Posted by Corbic

Not sure I follow you on this one..



Neither should be aloud in this situation. Yours and Mine OPINIONS do not matter regarding the circumstances of Mr. Browns death. That is the problem, everyone has their half-baked ideas about what went down and are trying to fill the pieces of the story with their own bullshit projections. One side FEELs like the cop was out trolling for young black men to line up and murder in the streets for yucks and grins. The other side thinks cops can do no wrong and the fact that the cop shot Brown means Brown deserved to die.

A judgement (which is most people is doing) is you announcing how you feel...BUT, there is a conviction, their is a right and wrong that you announce, good for finger pointing and accusing.

A opinion (which most people believe they are doing) is you announcing how you feel...BUT, there is no conviction, there is a respect among a differing opinion, there is not right or wrong, good for debating.

In retrospect
Opinion - Yeah I agree but.....[One Different Opinion later] I still respect your opinion, everyone has them

Judgement - You know that's pretty idiotic of you to like/believe that and here is why you are terrible....

At the end of the day, I'm anticipating and hoping that justice will be served rightfully. You have to expect people will get very upset about things like this, especially if their is tons of mysteries clouding the circumstance. Apparently it shows that Ferguson/St. Louis have deeper problem that anyone of us can see, that could possibly reflect our problem on a broader scale.

[J3123MY]

Does anyone have the police dash cam or is that not released to the public yet?

[HORShi]

Originally Posted by J3123MY

Does anyone have the police dash cam or is that not released to the public yet?

Ferguson PD doesn't use dash cams...as quote "we have 2 dash cams and 2 body cams them but there not installed".

Their budget doesn't allow it, as so say Thomas Jackson, Police Chief of Ferguson.

[STL240SXDRIFT]

http://fox2now.com/2014/09/10/protes...day-afternoon/

Sounds like they are going to try to stop traffic on I-70 today...

Will be watching this...if it happens

[1 88 U]

Now that white, non resident witnesses are coming foreward saying they saw Brown with his hands up and was shot mercilessly can we end this debate?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

Now that white, non resident witnesses are coming foreward saying they saw Brown with his hands up and was shot mercilessly can we end this debate?

So are you saying white witnesses are more creditable?

[turbronegro]

Originally Posted by Corbic

So are you saying white witnesses are more creditable?

Yes we are.

[supersayianjim]

Originally Posted by turbronegro

Yes we are.

well that can go either way...

[1 88 U]

http://www.abc22now.com/shared/news/..._vid_189.shtml

This is beyond fucked up.

[1 88 U]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XFYTtgZAlE

I guess you need to survive in order for the police to be prosecuted.

[VNG704]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

http://www.abc22now.com/shared/news/..._vid_189.shtml

This is beyond fucked up.

Damn this Ronald Richie.

[Frank_Jaeger]

Check this out

http://www.mintpressnews.com/man-sho...enalty/196865/

[STL240SXDRIFT]

No knock raids sounds dangerous on both the officers and suspects...many things can happen in the heat of the moment. Were they not identifying themselves as police?

[JesusFreakDrifter]

YEa that no knock is definitely risky. there was an 90 year old lady in atlanta that died in a shootout with the police a couple years back.
They were searching for a suspected drug dealer at the residence. She heard people outside her home, pulled her shotgun. and well they obviously outgunned her in the end. especially when the person they were looking for wasnt there.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/16/....botched.raid/

Also donald richie is fucked up for that phone call. at first i was confused as to why buddy had the gun. then i actually read the article and began to ask myself certain questions, like did he walk into the store with the toy gun? and why is donald richie lying to the police about him pointing and loading the alleged firearm?

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by JesusFreakDrifter

YEa that no knock is definitely risky. there was an 90 year old lady in atlanta that died in a shootout with the police a couple years back.
They were searching for a suspected drug dealer at the residence. She heard people outside her home, pulled her shotgun. and well they obviously outgunned her in the end. especially when the person they were looking for wasnt there.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/16/....botched.raid/

Also donald richie is fucked up for that phone call. at first i was confused as to why buddy had the gun. then i actually read the article and began to ask myself certain questions, like did he walk into the store with the toy gun? and why is donald richie lying to the police about him pointing and loading the alleged firearm?

Donald Richie is a lying racist asshole but it was the cops that stormed in and murdered the man that was just shopping and caused another woman to die of a heart attack.

[J3123MY]

Damn dude Marvin guy pwned some pigs.

[STL240SXDRIFT]

With the grand jury decision coming out in the next 48hrs I've personally seen a few National Guard Helos flying around and armored vehicles coming in. I am pretty sure they are preparing for some major reactions/protests. If you thought the first rounds of "protests" were bad...just wait. I have a feeling they are not going to charge Darren Wilson...

This was from yesterday...









Is Ferguson on the verge of civil unrest followed by martial law? What do you think will happen?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by STL240SXDRIFT

No knock raids sounds dangerous on both the officers and suspects...many things can happen in the heat of the moment. Were they not identifying themselves as police?

Knocking is even more dangerous in some cases.

We had two officers killed her years ago serving a warrant. Suspect was wanted for shoplifting or some crap and when he answered the door shot one cop in the face and shot it out with the other two. A second cop was mortally wounded in the neck, the suspect was ultimately killed.

[AFSil80]

So now that this has gone on for a day or two...

What's everyone's thoughts?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by AFSil80

So now that this has gone on for a day or two...

What's everyone's thoughts?

Well I heard a Shoe Carnival got looted and they took everything! Even the cash registers and fixtures! Only thing left was the work boots.....

I kid I kid.


I love the mob-justice mentality there however. Grand Jury investigates and does not send an indictment... Riot and Protest. So what, they want someone to say "oh, you don't like that? Okay we'll hang the guy for you." Justice by Public Opinion.


There are a thousand more better causes to riot over than this fiasco. What ever happen to nonviolent protest?

[AFSil80]

That's why I feel for the nonviolent protestors that ARE out there...while I don't side with them, I do firmly believe in the right for people to express their thoughts.

But the images I'm seeing of these assholes out there burning our nation's flag just makes me wish the cops weren't being as restrained as they are. It's pathetic, they're accusing the cops of aggression and yet the police didn't fire a SINGLE gunshot the first night. They arrested a handful of people and confiscated ONE handgun.

I mean, these idiots looting and rioting SET FIRE TO THE CHURCH THAT THE BROWN FAMILY ATTENDED. SERIOUSLY?!