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LOUD NOISES A place for political mudslinging, Pro/Anti legalization, gay marriage debate, Gun control rants, etc. If it's political, controversial, or hotly debated, it goes here. No regular Off-Topic stuff allowed. READ THE RULES BEFORE POSTING!


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Old 01-20-2021, 08:10 AM   #151
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Anyone taking bets on another terrorist riot in DC today?
The only person on Zilvia with apparent knowledge of the first one got himself banned when it didn't have the intended outcome.
Another? When was the last one? 9/11?
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Old 01-20-2021, 09:19 AM   #152
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Another? When was the last one? 9/11?
hahaha

well said

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Old 01-20-2021, 09:20 AM   #153
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Today is the first taste of normalcy in more than four years. It's not what I wanted but holy shit is it good.
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Old 01-20-2021, 10:14 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Corbic View Post
Another? When was the last one? 9/11?
You're on the wrong side of history, my dude.

The attack on the Capitol fits the literal definition of terrorism: "the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes."

Violence: attacking police and destroying windows and offices. Literally beating an officer to death.

Threats: "Hang Mike Pence"

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Originally Posted by Corbic
They see pantifa as dangerous domestic terrorist that are using violence and destruction as a way to intimidate elected officials and the public in order to circumvent our legal process to get what they want.

Couldn't be anymore un-American.
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Old 01-20-2021, 10:27 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree View Post
You're on the wrong side of history, my dude.

The attack on the Capitol fits the literal definition of terrorism: "the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes."

Violence: attacking police and destroying windows and offices. Literally beating an officer to death.

Threats: "Hang Mike Pence"



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First, I'm not your Dude.

Second, oh the mountain of hypocrisy.

So pushing past some barricades and taking an unguided tour of the capital is "terrorism"...

But..

Firebombing the Federal Court House in Portland is an act of protest....

What about when protestors stormed the Hart Senate Office Building to disrupt the confirmation hearings for Judge Kavanaugh... Two days in a row?

Was that terrorism?

What about when protestors stormed and occupied the Wisconsin Capital building for like a fucking month to stop all government work on right to work legislation?

Was that terrorism?

What about when protestors seized an entire 4 blocks of a city, buried a police HQ l, murdered 12 people and declared independence from thr US...

Was that Terrorism?

You telling me I'm on the wrong side of history is like Adolf telling Mackensen he was on the wrong side of history in 1933.
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Old 01-20-2021, 10:45 AM   #156
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When in doubt, Kampf it out. Folx like you always find a way.

The difference between you and me is that I didn't condone any of the things you just listed. I didn't downplay them and pretend that they weren't what they were because the people may have agreed with me politically.

Antifa and BLM were protesting now? Not rioting? It was rioting before- did you just mis-type? Were they protests because now the Capitol invaders can be protestors, rather than rioters?

C'mon, Corbic.
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Old 01-20-2021, 10:58 AM   #157
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Speak of Corbic and he doth appear. I should never have mentioned him.
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Old 01-20-2021, 11:04 AM   #158
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This feels huge. If they are willing to come back to the table in good faith after what Trump and Pompeo pulled it kind of changes the regional narrative we've been running with for decades.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKBN29P0NK
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Old 01-20-2021, 12:41 PM   #159
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From Chris Wallace's mouth to your ears.

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Old 01-20-2021, 02:05 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbic View Post
First, I'm not your Dude.

Second, oh the mountain of hypocrisy.

So pushing past some barricades and taking an unguided tour of the capital is "terrorism"...

But..

Firebombing the Federal Court House in Portland is an act of protest....

What about when protestors stormed the Hart Senate Office Building to disrupt the confirmation hearings for Judge Kavanaugh... Two days in a row?
Was that terrorism?
What about when protestors stormed and occupied the Wisconsin Capital building for like a fucking month to stop all government work on right to work legislation?
Was that terrorism?
What about when protestors seized an entire 4 blocks of a city, buried a police HQ l, murdered 12 people and declared independence from thr US...
Was that Terrorism?
You telling me I'm on the wrong side of history is like Adolf telling Mackensen he was on the wrong side of history in 1933.
i'm seeing a pattern here. . . . .
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it'll fit JANK.. and no one likes Jank except Broke ass zilvians.
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Old 01-20-2021, 02:08 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree View Post
When in doubt, Kampf it out. Folx like you always find a way.

The difference between you and me is that I didn't condone any of the things you just listed. I didn't downplay them and pretend that they weren't what they were because the people may have agreed with me politically.

Antifa and BLM were protesting now? Not rioting? It was rioting before- did you just mis-type? Were they protests because now the Capitol invaders can be protestors, rather than rioters?

C'mon, Corbic.
Authoritarian is as Authoritarian does.

Please show me condoning anyone or anything. You linked me supporting Homeland targeting suspected agitators and arresting them in low profile ways.

I'm glad you'd rather get into a historical semantics debate rather then addressing the hypocrisy and actual issues.

The reality is, what happened on January 6th was par for the course in terms of the last 10 years of political based action - riot, protest or otherwise.

Yet you and your corporate overlords are shitting themselves, black listing, banning and calling for counter terrorism efforts. How long before China Joe starts drone striking people?

If you had a memory longer than the latest news cycle, you'd realize the "Right" has not moved to the extreme. They haven't moved in 60 years. It's the left that has moved and just calls the right extreme because they are farther away.

So rather then "coming together", you've impeached the president again, which means fuck all while accosting 80 million Americans as extremist terrorists.

This could have all been avoided had you accepted the proposal to hold a 10 independent investigation to review the accusations of voter fraud.

After all , you did support a now debunked 4 year Russia Collusion Investigation predicated on what was essentially election tampering by the DNC....
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Old 01-20-2021, 02:09 PM   #162
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i'm seeing a pattern here. . . . .
Yeah, inconvenient truths.

Your side does it for 10 years it's fair. Other side does it once and it's time for a screeching party and when someone points out thr hypocrisy you plug your ears.
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Old 01-20-2021, 03:31 PM   #163
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You're 100% correct about the right not moving. They've been terrorizing the country for generations. Bombing churches. Shooting up clinics. Torching entire neighborhoods. Using the power of government to render undesirables second class citizens.

The only difference now is being able to go live on Facebook so the whole world sees it in real time.
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Old 01-20-2021, 04:27 PM   #164
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you'd realize the "Right" has not moved to the extreme. They haven't moved in 60 years.
In theory, sure, because they keep peddling the same bullshit because it continues to sell votes (same goes for the left), but they are nothing like the parties 60 years ago. Everyone is owned by someone other than the citizens and the ideas they're supposed to represent. America, a country by the corporate-backed upper class for the corporation-owning 1%. Isn't it beautiful? Looking down from Mount Olympus at the little red ants fighting the little black ants for our crumbs instead of climbing onto our table is H-I-L-ARIOUS!
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Old 01-20-2021, 04:58 PM   #165
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It pains me to say that Corbic brings up a valid point that no one wants to see, but he does. I honestly never heard the term 'what-aboutisms' until it was typed in this thread, but when you're comparing things isn't that how you go about it? He isn't comparing something recent (Capitol) to something that happened forever ago...

If it's terrorism for one act and not the other, well, you know. It's just like Twitter.

Where a lot of people see defense of some fuckwit they turn a blind eye to the even application of the rules. The blanket of righteousness is warm but is also blinding.
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Old 01-20-2021, 05:08 PM   #166
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Comparing things isn't what what-about-ism is doing. He's deflecting by drawing open ended bad faith comparisons. Don't fall for literal soviet social control tactics.
Any discussion of BLM is a separate matter from what happened at the Capitol two weeks ago. I'd be happy to have those discussions but not with constant gotchas and deflection in play.
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Old 01-20-2021, 05:18 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingkilburn View Post
Comparing things isn't what what-about-ism is doing. He's deflecting by drawing open ended bad faith comparisons. Don't fall for literal soviet social control tactics.
Any discussion of BLM is a separate matter from what happened at the Capitol two weeks ago. I'd be happy to have those discussions but not with constant gotchas and deflection in play.
It's not designed to be a gotcha.

Twitter bans Trump and people planning the Capitol siege, but was there ever any bans or reviews of the people that turned the BLM protests into riots?

What about the city of CHAZ?

These are honest questions, and not an attempt at a 'gotcha'. If anything, the 'gotcha' would be aimed at Twitter and the powers-at-be not labeling things with the same methodology.

EDIT: I just re-read my post and it's shittily written, but I am having a hard go at life today. Apologies in advance.
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Old 01-20-2021, 06:22 PM   #168
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In theory, sure, because they keep peddling the same bullshit because it continues to sell votes (same goes for the left), but they are nothing like the parties 60 years ago. Everyone is owned by someone other than the citizens and the ideas they're supposed to represent. America, a country by the corporate-backed upper class for the corporation-owning 1%. Isn't it beautiful? Looking down from Mount Olympus at the little red ants fighting the little black ants for our crumbs instead of climbing onto our table is H-I-L-ARIOUS!
You do realize the Right / Left dichotomy has nothing to do with GOP / DNC. It goes back to the French Revolution to describe the two sides of the table.

The GOP is nothing but thr DNC Lite Edition. The DNC being an Authoritarian Corruption machine that will do anything to stay in power.

The DNCs sudden tailspin for Queer Activism is nothing but a vote grab. Their touting of minority advancement an utter lie. Unchecked immigration just means more votes.

After a year of BLM/Antifa riots what did the DNC give ya'll? A woman sniffing racist who helped build the police state your crying about and thr Top-Cop corrupt DA that laughed about locking black men up for slave labor.... Both of whom are 100% supported by those big tech and investment billionaires you so hate.

Good Job. Hope and Change you can believe in.

Who wants to take bets on how many weeks until we invade a 3rd world country or start lobbing missiles at children?
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Old 01-20-2021, 06:31 PM   #169
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Read and lets discuss

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Old 01-20-2021, 06:32 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbic View Post
You do realize the Right / Left dichotomy has nothing to do with GOP / DNC. It goes back to the French Revolution to describe the two sides of the table.

The GOP is nothing but thr DNC Lite Edition. The DNC being an Authoritarian Corruption machine that will do anything to stay in power.

The DNCs sudden tailspin for Queer Activism is nothing but a vote grab. Their touting of minority advancement an utter lie. Unchecked immigration just means more votes.

After a year of BLM/Antifa riots what did the DNC give ya'll? A woman sniffing racist who helped build the police state your crying about and thr Top-Cop corrupt DA that laughed about locking black men up for slave labor.... Both of whom are 100% supported by those big tech and investment billionaires you so hate.

Good Job. Hope and Change you can believe in.

Who wants to take bets on how many weeks until we invade a 3rd world country or start lobbing missiles at children?
couldnt agree with you more. as far as i'm concerned, they can all go and get fucked.

i love how people think ANY of these people have our interests in mind. pandering douchebags
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Old 01-20-2021, 06:58 PM   #171
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This is good:

If the GOP is to have a future outside the fever dreams of internet trolls, we have to call out falsehoods and conspiracy theories unequivocally. We have to repudiate people who peddle those lies.

We also have to show a healthier path forward. The frustrations that caused so many people to turn in desperate directions for a political voice are not going away when Trump leaves the White House for Mar-a-Lago, because deception and demagoguery are the inevitable consequences of a politics that is profoundly, systemically dysfunctional. We must begin by asking how we got to such a discontented place, where we are mired in lies, rage, and now violence. In this essay, I am focusing on the maladies of the right, but Americans across the political spectrum are falling prey to the siren song of conspiracism.


but holy FUCK this is the winner:

Sensing a chance at tribal expansion, some on the left are thrilled by the chaos on the right, and they?re eager to seize the moment to banish from polite society not just those who participated and encouraged violence, but anyone with an R next to his or her name. Already on Twitter, a conservative position as long-standing as opposition to abortion has been recast as ?domestic terrorism.? An MSNBC host talked about the ?de-Baathification? of the GOP, comparing rank-and-file Republicans to supporters of Saddam Hussein. In an exchange on CNN, a host accused Republican voters of making common cause with Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan. Yet the exploitative overreaction by the left should not allow an underreaction by the right.

That, my friend, was a fucking GREAT article. I am going to share it.
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Old 01-20-2021, 08:45 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by dizzariot View Post
It's not designed to be a gotcha.

Twitter bans Trump and people planning the Capitol siege, but was there ever any bans or reviews of the people that turned the BLM protests into riots?

What about the city of CHAZ?

These are honest questions, and not an attempt at a 'gotcha'. If anything, the 'gotcha' would be aimed at Twitter and the powers-at-be not labeling things with the same methodology.

EDIT: I just re-read my post and it's shittily written, but I am having a hard go at life today. Apologies in advance.
The people that stormed the capitol and the people that turned BLM protests into riots are the very same. Proud Boys, 3%ers, Oath Keepers(who actually switched sides after more of the conservative political space homogenized), Qanon... Not to mention the police themselves, who have been noticably absent from right wing protest. If what you seek to protest is misuse of force wilful property damage is not a viable path forward.

The shit in Portland is complicated and predates BLM by years. They've got some nutty anarchists looking for any excuse to break shit. I truly wish they'd minded their own business. Most of the people calling themselves antifa are closer to those anarchists than I'm comfortable with.


The conservative militias that act as paramilitary cells and riot anarchists have really been fucking things up for everyone. They warp the narrative by stealing the focus. The vast vast majority of gun owners are not about walking around in tactical gear trying to intimidate, just like protestors aren't trying to destroy their communities.
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Old 01-21-2021, 08:55 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzariot View Post
This is good:

If the GOP is to have a future outside the fever dreams of internet trolls, we have to call out falsehoods and conspiracy theories unequivocally. We have to repudiate people who peddle those lies.

We also have to show a healthier path forward. The frustrations that caused so many people to turn in desperate directions for a political voice are not going away when Trump leaves the White House for Mar-a-Lago, because deception and demagoguery are the inevitable consequences of a politics that is profoundly, systemically dysfunctional. We must begin by asking how we got to such a discontented place, where we are mired in lies, rage, and now violence. In this essay, I am focusing on the maladies of the right, but Americans across the political spectrum are falling prey to the siren song of conspiracism.


but holy FUCK this is the winner:

Sensing a chance at tribal expansion, some on the left are thrilled by the chaos on the right, and they?re eager to seize the moment to banish from polite society not just those who participated and encouraged violence, but anyone with an R next to his or her name. Already on Twitter, a conservative position as long-standing as opposition to abortion has been recast as ?domestic terrorism.? An MSNBC host talked about the ?de-Baathification? of the GOP, comparing rank-and-file Republicans to supporters of Saddam Hussein. In an exchange on CNN, a host accused Republican voters of making common cause with Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan. Yet the exploitative overreaction by the left should not allow an underreaction by the right.

That, my friend, was a fucking GREAT article. I am going to share it.
I thought so too.

The writer had so many great points.

Politics has become such a teamsport these days. The left brands the right as evil/racists etc. The right brands the left as soulless idiots hell bent on destroying the nation.

Look at media. The fact that instead of being bias like it should be, it is right vs left media.

Like the writer put

Quote:
America?s junk-food media diet
The way Americans are consuming and producing news?or what passes for it these days?is driving us mad. This has been said many times, but the problem has worsened in the past five years. On the supply side, media outlets have discovered that dialing up the rhetoric increases clicks, eyeballs, and revenue. On the demand side, readers and viewers like to see their opinions affirmed, rather than challenged. When everybody?s outraged, everybody wins?at least in the short term.
Outrage sells. The problem is the lasting effects of said outrage. It stops discourse from happening and puts us against one another instead of simply disagreeing.

Just look at the prior thread and this one. It is less of a "I agree to disagree" and more of a "fuck you, I am right".
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Old 01-21-2021, 09:16 AM   #174
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I'm at a point with news media that I want to see something coming from AP and Reuters before I even look at other takes. Report the facts and provide context, that's it.
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Old 01-21-2021, 10:52 AM   #175
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#BidenErasedWomen is trending on Twitter because Biden signed an "Executive Order on Preventing and Combating Discrimination on the Basis of Gender Identity or Sexual Orientation".

There's your blue Qanon type shit. Insanity.
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Old 01-21-2021, 12:49 PM   #176
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Good Job. Hope and Change you can believe in.
Yet again glossing over the part where I say, "same goes for the left," eh? Predisposed to making every conversation into some divisive bullshit. They're both fucked. You're delusional if you think one is better than the other. You think it's a dichotomy, but it's more like a symbiotic relationship.

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Outrage sells.
The ills of capitalism know no bounds! There's no reasonable way to solve this problem. It really comes down to the person taking in the media to do their due-diligence and cross reference several sources across the political spectrum if they really want to build a global understanding of a specific topic - but I think most do not. We enjoy the bias confirmation.
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Old 01-21-2021, 02:24 PM   #177
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The ills of capitalism know no bounds! There's no reasonable way to solve this problem. It really comes down to the person taking in the media to do their due-diligence and cross reference several sources across the political spectrum if they really want to build a global understanding of a specific topic - but I think most do not. We enjoy the bias confirmation.
Get your rage here! Rage for sell! Outrage here!


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Old 01-21-2021, 04:29 PM   #178
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https://youtu.be/R-lIEqYfn1Y

Not like it matters anymore, but the irony is unreal.
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Old 01-21-2021, 07:57 PM   #179
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The conservative militias that act as paramilitary cells and riot anarchists have really been fucking things up for everyone. They warp the narrative by stealing the focus. The vast vast majority of gun owners are not about walking around in tactical gear trying to intimidate, just like protestors aren't trying to destroy their communities.
I agree here. Would you agree that condemning one movement due to these two parties you mentioned is also 'unfair' if you don't condemn the other? Not saying you specifically, just in general.

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Outrage sells. The problem is the lasting effects of said outrage. It stops discourse from happening and puts us against one another instead of simply disagreeing.

Just look at the prior thread and this one. It is less of a "I agree to disagree" and more of a "fuck you, I am right".
There's a quote making the rounds on social media about black ants and red ants. When placed in a jar together. they don't attack. When someone shakes the jar, they go bonkers. The media is shaking the glass, and I still can't figure out 'to what end'...just dollars and cents?


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It really comes down to the person taking in the media to do their due-diligence and cross reference several sources across the political spectrum if they really want to build a global understanding of a specific topic - but I think most do not. We enjoy the bias confirmation.
I don't know how old you are (I already sound preachy) but the two main dudes I was friends with in the military were my younger brother's age. They are good people at their core, but I always take the 'ol' peepaw' stance when I tell them they gotta stop blindly consuming 'news' from Twitter and Facebook. There's no need for confirmation, it's just easier to read and repeat than it is to research.
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Old 01-21-2021, 08:39 PM   #180
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If you mean the two political parties, fuck both if them. There's some decent to good members of both in office but as organizations they both fucking suck.

If you mean the "two sides" of the issue I would argue that there aren't two sides or even a "correct" viewpoint. Having any social issue be able turn into anarchists and militias lobbing molotovs is something we should all be ashamed of. We've got to be able to have good faith discussion and know that the solutions chosen might not always be our favorite.
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