Does the president's religion matter to you? Why or why not?

[Origin]

Originally Posted by ineedone

What is a "true" follower. Because last time I checked, religion (every religion) is pretty ambiguous when it comes to the shit your suppose to believe, do, not do, etc.

I don't know, read the book. You can learn something, idiot. Well I do know, but why shouldn't you find out on your own? You know I was looking at your car a while back. I wish I was in a position to buy it. I hope it went to a good owner.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by Origin

I do laugh (well just a thought mid-sentence, I normally stop reading your posts about the second line in) at this ability for a pissed off adult boy to just senselessly insult the other person when he's not getting his way. (Wrath). I don't even know what your first sentence means. So now I'm just someone spewing some random dribble? So you think you are above me? Clearly you think you are above the Phelps style of thinking. (Pride). I didn't know you knew where law was created from. You seem to know a lot, are you omniscient? I don't even know what you are arguing about anymore.

I am God, this is the burning bush. I am here to tell you that the internets will end humanity and you MUST... MUST... end it. It has been proclaimed. Here on Ziliva. That YOU... ORIGIN... my most beloved son will say the digital beast (does not mean jerk off to porn). Go forth and may the force be with you - God, aka Jesus, aka zombie jesus, aka Raptor Jesus.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! < ---- ANNNNGGGERRRRR

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by Origin

I don't know, read the book. You can learn something, idiot. Well I do know, but why shouldn't you find out on your own? You know I was looking at your car a while back. I wish I was in a position to buy it. I hope it went to a good owner.

Who decides what was true and what is not? Do you decide?

The car went to NY. Which is second in sin only to CA.

[BarrigaS14]

No, as long as the president doesn't try to make law based on religious views.

[kingkilburn]

I haven't read the thread yet(I'm working on it) but I wanted to say first that I don't care about any person's personal life. As long as they do their job and nothing in their private life compromises that it shouldn't matter and is none of anyone's business.

[Siberian Husky]

Originally Posted by Origin

I do laugh (well just a thought mid-sentence, I normally stop reading your posts about the second line in) at this ability for a pissed off adult boy to just senselessly insult the other person when he's not getting his way. (Wrath). I don't even know what your first sentence means. So now I'm just someone spewing some random dribble? So you think you are above me? Clearly you think you are above the Phelps style of thinking. (Pride). I didn't know you knew where law was created from. You seem to know a lot, are you omniscient? I don't even know what you are arguing about anymore.

I stumbled upon Loud Noises for the first time since I've joined Zilvia year ago and after flipping through a few threads I can't seem to understand why you, Origin, are so dead set on peddling your ass-backwards, mediocre, "beliefs." I'm very much embarrassed for you, almost everything you've tried addressing has come off entirely unprepared and, in most cases, emotionally charged with hardly any ounce of political substance. Before I go on; please don't misinterpret this posting as my disagreeing with your perspectives, because I'm more concerned with pointing out your poor debate process rather than your premature idealisms of "grandeur" reflected by your hate for Obama or your unconditional loyalty to republican gestures and what you feel exists as traditional "Americanism."

I have my beliefs as everyone else, and I enjoy debate as I believe it provides us with catalysts for learning new perspectives. Your thought process, however, is so diseased--its fucking irritating and makes me lose hope in my generation. I don't mind disagreeing with someone but it is poor form to dismiss a notion as trash simply because it doesn't satisfy the fabric of your belief system. When someone presents you with opposing evidence or opinions, please address them objectively rather than dismissing them as utter shit and providing elementary construed blanket statements as if they were factual. If you've spent any time learning about the world you live in, and know anything about knowledge itself, you would understand the importance of relativism--making you less inspired to feel so axiomatic in your beliefs. If you and I were ever involved in a serious debate, I know I would tear you a new asshole, not because of how much I think i know, but because of how sure you are of yourself. Some of the best and brightest men humanity has ever known died in old age admitting ignorance--how many truisms can your 20-something year old ass know? A little hubris goes a long way in finding truth.

On the discussion of religious integrity, with respect to statesmen, I agree with the importance of neutrality. Separation of church and state is fundamental to this nation's manifestation; in fact, it was America that served as the largest harbor for religious refugees from Europe during the colonization of the East. For a country that has always stood for freedom, providing refuge and opportunity for people of varying classes and backgrounds, I personally feel it is imperative to have a figure-head that promotes this separation, regardless of his/her beliefs. I find it archaic that many prospective statesmen blatantly reference religion (Christianity) as concrete factors that define policy. I would not care if President Obama were Muslim, Catholic, or anything else; I would be more proud as a citizen if my state and country reflected the diversity we exhibit.

Edit: For your edification, I am a believer in Christ. I also find beliefs and imagery from other religions moving (problem?) ; I have tentatively decided that my religious fabric is motivated by morality, and would arguably define my system as both spiritually agnostic with monotheistic Christian undertones and humanistic.

[Slims]

What happened to separation of church and state? oh wait its 2012, no one in government plays by the rules.

[terrence]

Originally Posted by Slims

What happened to separation of church and state? oh wait its 2012, no one in government plays by the rules.

There is no document that actually says "there is a separation between church and state" in the US constitution or any other legal document. It was only in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson, he viewed that their should be a separation between the church and state. This letter has been brought up in supreme court a few times, but again; it is not in the Constitution.

On that note, anyone who claims they are religious I automatically assume they are less intelligent. I am embarrassed that we still live in a world that clings to barbaric ideas and traditions blindly on ignorance. It would not surprise me if some politicians actually claim a certain faith to gain voters (worked for W. Bush). So to the topic of the OP, it makes a difference that the person running for office actually claims a religious affiliation; regardless of the context of their superstitions.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by BustedS13

I would like to see an agnostic president, personally, but I know I never will because religion, specifically Christianity, and certainly not any other, is valued so highly by the majority of this country. I'd like to see a president who never cites religion as reasoning for any decision they make. This country is not 100% Christian, and those who aren't should be respected equally, and have their rights respected equally.

So, why do you care that Obama is Muslim? he's not, but why does the suggestion bother you?

First what "non-christian" has been the victim of having their "rights" violated?

Second - fuck you and your respect. (no offense, being dramatic). There is nothing legally that one person has to appreciate and value another views, support them, embrace them or give two flying fucks. It's called tollerate. You tollerate that idiot dressing up as a Jedi in his living room and worshiping Yoda... you don't have to like him.

Additionally, if you are supporting the idea that Obama is Muslim, then you have two non-Christians running. Mormons are no more Christian than Muslims, (thats not an insult).

Lastly, people care what religion their leader are because of obvious reasons. Not only is there the fear or hope that this leader will show favoritism to their fellow brethren but also its a good basis to understand what they value and where they want to take us.

Obviously if you support gay mariage and what to see polygamy legalized a devote Evangelical leader may not have a sympathetic ear to your cause. Just like if you are looking to knock off all the bullshit from cry babies unable to understand the meaning "Separation of Church and State", electing an atheist may not be your best bet.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by terrence

There is no document that actually says "there is a separation between church and state" in the US constitution or any other legal document. It was only in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson, he viewed that their should be a separation between the church and state. This letter has been brought up in supreme court a few times, but again; it is not in the Constitution.

Correct. The basic concept is not that the Government will refuse to recognize religion, God, prayer or spirituality, but rather that they Government will not create and define and mandated religion with taxation for that religion. IE: The Church of England.

You have to remember we are basically the decedents of the British Empire and the primary reason the colonists came to America was because they where religious fanatics who wanted to practice their own bizarre, out there near jihadist style religions.

Quakers, Puritans, ect. Remember the Puritans over threw the monarchy and eventually got chased over to Holland. Once their the Dutch grew weary of their fanaticism and soon the new world was their only hope.


ANYWAY... the my point is people crying about "in god we trust" as being a violation of their "rights" are just idiots. Give me a call when Congress passes a law mandating we must all convert to Scientology and give 3% of our income to the church... something many European and Middle Eastern countries require.

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Mormons are no more Christian than Muslims, (thats not an insult).

What makes the people of the Church of Jesus Christ and Ladder Day Saints no more Christian than Muslims?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

What makes the people of the Church of Jesus Christ and Ladder Day Saints no more Christian than Muslims?

Because they have added onto the New Testament their own version. Its a very fundamentally different religion. Just like Christians (Protestants and Catholics) are not Jews or Muslims (who believe in Jesus as a prophet) are not Christians.

Its obviously a slippery slope argument and if you google it, it is one that has gone on for a long time and won't be decided in this thread.

Regardless 50 years ago America freaked this shit out over the thought of a Catholic being president.

The OP is also making a stink about "Christian" American "requiring" a "Protestant" leader, by the mere fact the Romulon is in the running would be a reason to beg to differ.

What I think people what is not necessarily "omfg he's not a Baptist", but they want a man of values and humble devotion. Its good to know your leader does pray to a higher power, he does feel his actions are being judged by more than what the Washington post catches him doing or what the polls say, and its a strong character test.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by AsleepAltima

this. pretty much all that needs to be said.

Yes, because Atheist governments seem to be the best...

Mao's China
Stalin's Russia
Castro's Cuba


Works out great for the citizenry.

"...the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God."

If you are relying strictly on science and logic, then "might makes right" every time.

[StryfeS13]

Originally Posted by ESmorz

How do you know that the inscriptions on Runes of Thor fighting Frost Giants and The Midgard Serpent weren't eyewitness accounts?

Hahaha! Man that was funny.

Seriously though I don't care what religion the president is as long as his/her choices are not influenced by it.

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Because they have added onto the New Testament their own version. Its a very fundamentally different religion. Just like Christians (Protestants and Catholics) are not Jews or Muslims (who believe in Jesus as a prophet) are not Christians.

Its obviously a slippery slope argument and if you google it, it is one that has gone on for a long time and won't be decided in this thread.

Regardless 50 years ago America freaked this shit out over the thought of a Catholic being president.

The OP is also making a stink about "Christian" American "requiring" a "Protestant" leader, by the mere fact the Romulon is in the running would be a reason to beg to differ.

What I think people what is not necessarily "omfg he's not a Baptist", but they want a man of values and humble devotion. Its good to know your leader does pray to a higher power, he does feel his actions are being judged by more than what the Washington post catches him doing or what the polls say, and its a strong character test.

The difference is Christians don't identify themselves as Jewish but Mormons do identify themselves as Christian. Who are you to determine who gets to identify with what faith?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

The difference is Christians don't identify themselves as Jewish but Mormons do identify themselves as Christian. Who are you to determine who gets to identify with what faith?

I bet that sounded more intelligent in your head.

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by Corbic

I bet that sounded more intelligent in your head.

So do you agree that the Mormon faith is a Christian faith?

[AsleepAltima]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Yes, because Atheist governments seem to be the best...

Mao's China
Stalin's Russia
Castro's Cuba


Works out great for the citizenry.



If you are relying strictly on science and logic, then "might makes right" every time.

damn you for making me go back and read what it was i was referring to. LOL

anyways, this is what i was actually agreeing to -

Originally Posted by roboticnissan

who cares what religion obama is, as long as he can make decisions based on real life problems not on what a god would supposedly liked ti have done.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

So do you agree that the Mormon faith is a Christian faith?

Nope.


Ever here of marketing?


Does Scientology have anything to do with science?

[Slims]

Originally Posted by StryfeS13

Seriously though I don't care what religion the president is as long as his/her choices are not influenced by it.

That's the main thing. the only thing I'm concerned about is how the persons religious affiliation will have an affect on their decisions. religion is a powerful thing for a lot of people, and some would go so far to kill their self in the name of their religion and god. knowing just how devoted someone is to their religion is not something you're going to be able to absorb just from watching them on TV (unless they're Tebo!) I dont care what religion anyone is, just as long as it does not interfere with making a logical, UN-influanced, decision that needs to be made for this country.

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Nope.


Ever here of marketing?


Does Scientology have anything to do with science?

Mormons say they are Christian yet you choose to disqualify them and accuse them of marketing as if that isn't what all evangelism is? You are a religious bigot as well dude. You need to do some soul searching.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

Mormons say they are Christian yet you choose to disqualify them and accuse them of marketing as if that isn't what all evangelism is? You are a religious bigot as well dude. You need to do some soul searching.

I bet that sounded cooler in your head...

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Its good to know your leader does pray to a higher power, he does feel his actions are being judged by more than what the Washington post catches him doing or what the polls say, and its a strong character test.

And THAT is why the whole cuckolding themselves to a specific set of religious belief leads me to believe that literally EVERYONE to run for President is full of shit.
Sure, they would have everyone to believe they're faithful and have the best collective interests of the American people but the truth is that they - ALL of them on both sides of the aisle - are run by the SPONSORS of America who are pretty much buying this election with their contributions.

And that is why I say the President's religion doesn't matter, especially when so few of their actions actually take any root in those actions.
f'rinstance, the New Testament is full of stories of Jesus feeding the hungry and healing the sick. If this country were truly being run on those ideals alone, then we would not have a whole political ideology committed to telling them to "get it together" and waiting on the rich people to give them jobs when the government gets out of THEIR way.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Phlip

The New Testament is full of stories of Jesus feeding the hungry and healing the sick. If this country were truly being run on those ideals alone, then we would not have a whole political ideology committed to telling them to "get it together" and waiting on the rich people to give them jobs when the government gets out of THEIR way.

No one in American goes hungry except because abuse/neglect or mental illness.

Also, what about the whole "teach a man to fish".

The Bible is full of lessons and stories, many of them are telling you God helps those who help themselves.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Phlip

And THAT is why the whole cuckolding themselves to a specific set of religious belief leads me to believe that literally EVERYONE to run for President is full of shit.

I disagree. True you have spend a lifetime working toward becoming President. You have to want it more than anything else and make all the right political moves to even get a chance.

You talk about sponsors but if anyone wealthy enough ran on their own dime the openers would be howling about what a filthy rich fucker they are and how they are not "from the people".

Having read Bush's book, knowing people that know him and even my father has met him... I can confidently say I believe he is in fact a believer.

[Trinidrift3]

A President's religion makes difference on my view of them or whether i woudl vote for them. I want someone who truly wants to make a change for the better in world, and do whatever they can to help the people of our country.

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Having read Bush's book, knowing people that know him and even my father has met him... I can confidently say I believe he is in fact a believer.

And yet his faith didn't stop him from being a shit president.

[usdm180sx]

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[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

And yet his faith didn't stop him from being a shit president.

Oh? Well debate that in 40 years when people can look at the long term impacts and think with some dissipation.

[word sux]

separation of church and state so who cares what religion the president is



but considering christians are the majority of this nation then I highly doubt we will see a non christian president in our lifetime. Considering the three major ethnic groups (caucasian, hispanic, and african) are mostly christian I can't see it ever happening to be honest.. If there were to be it would most likely be a jewish president.