Occupy Wall Street vs. Tea Party

[kingkilburn]

The corruption and co opting of the unions is another issue and I'm with you on most of that.

Being forced into a union is bogus.

[mantas]

Originally Posted by Walperstyle

Corporations are no different then unions at all. They are both in it for money.


also how exactly do you work at a job that requires you to be a Union member. The unions are a huge problem toward corporations that are trying to make money. General Motors can't turn a profit like they use to because of Union members sucking profits dry via a BS pension plan and benefits that should have never happened. To make matters worse, something like 20% of GM's shareholder is the Union. That is unnecessary Leverage.

As for Union Vote; I don't know about you, but usually the 'members' don't get to vote, its the Union Representatives. Usually the Reps are the ones that look out for themselves before you and I. Thats how it was in every Union Job I was in.



To a corporation, and avoid being taxed, they contribute money to Non Profit organizations. In some situations, these non-profit organizations are funds to help advertise for political leaders. Is it right or wrong? maybe.

Would you rather pay a bunch of tax money to the government thats in power that you dont like, or to a non-profit to help advertise to get the one you do like? Thats what its about.

Its a 50/50 split across the US on where they want money going.

Fortunately a few good Corporations are out there that donate to charity and actual good things like women shelters and such. Or senior centers like where my wife works.

Do some research on charitable contributions and how much the receiving institution uses for overhead costs -, you will be surprised. I don't feel like doing the legwork for you, and I do not recall the exact figures so I won't make something up, but... for each dollar donated only a few cents end up going to the "needy" (like the bitches at OWS). This is true for most NOT for profit and NON profit organizations. Big f-ing scam! Same goes for money pissed away to other parts of the world. Half is spent by our government to get the money or goods there - the other half pissed away by the receiving nations government. LMAO

[codyace]

Originally Posted by cdlong

No. Because there are contribution limits.

Corporations however... (I really don't know, feel free to explain what they can do). If GE was limited to donating $2500 to a candidate, I think most people wouldn't care.

Who's to say they donate it direct to the campaign though? That's my point. if Jonny CEO wants to 'donate' whatever to a supposed canidates 'charity'...then that saves the candidate the investment, which they can dump wherever.

I don't read too closely to limits...when it's so easy to appoint/account for the cash elsewhere.

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Unions vote on how the dues are to be spent. Don't like it don't join. Don't think you fool anyone phrasing it the way you did.

You say that in a very generic sense. You don't like the union and don't join...often times in pro-union places that means you don't have a job.

Unions are as much a 'business' as the companies that employ them.

[Walperstyle]

Originally Posted by mantas

Do some research on charitable contributions and how much the receiving institution uses for overhead costs -, you will be surprised. I don't feel like doing the legwork for you, and I do not recall the exact figures so I won't make something up, but... for each dollar donated only a few cents end up going to the "needy" (like the bitches at OWS). This is true for most NOT for profit and NON profit organizations. Big f-ing scam! Same goes for money pissed away to other parts of the world. Half is spent by our government to get the money or goods there - the other half pissed away by the receiving nations government. LMAO

I understand what you are saying, kind of. Stay on topic.

[Walperstyle]

I want many of you to realize that there is a handful of professional protestors, also with corporate sponsorship in all of these cities too. So as much as you want to hate how money is being sent to bogus non-profit organizations, so is such with many of these protestors.

[kingkilburn]

Originally Posted by codyace

You say that in a very generic sense. You don't like the union and don't join...often times in pro-union places that means you don't have a job.

Unions are as much a 'business' as the companies that employ them.

When it's in the governments best interest(unionized state/federal workers with the union controlled by government) for unions to be strong you bet they will be strong. When it stops being a voluntary thing it's gone to far. When your representation from you to your employer IS your employer the system is flawed.

[harrypotter]

Not sure if this is already posted in this thread, don't like reading BS so I just skimmed it. Found this while looking at the reasons zombies would not survive!


5 Ways We Ruined the Occupy Wall Street Generation | Cracked.com

[mantas]

Originally Posted by harrypotter

Not sure if this is already posted in this thread, don't like reading BS so I just skimmed it. Found this while looking at the reasons zombies would not survive!


5 Ways We Ruined the Occupy Wall Street Generation | Cracked.com

Good article, conclusions is epic! "Grow up or, be poor and cry me a river that your parents screwed up".

[kingkilburn]

I figured it out.

Republicans "stealing" your money(taxes) and spending it on your behalf(giving subsidies to the most profitable industry in the history of man, oil). Good.

Democrats "stealing" your money(taxes) and spending it on your behalf(NPR, public health/welfare, subsidizing artists, EPA). Bad.

Unions "stealing" it's members money(union dues) ans spending it on their behalf. Very bad.

Corporations/financial institutions getting tax breaks and subsidies and spending it on more tax breaks and subsidies. Very good.

[RJF]

It’s kind of sad when you show up to a protest and the people that you’re trying to intimidate have better and louder chants.



"We want the dog!" Occupy Denver elected a dog to run their movement.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

When it's in the governments best interest(unionized state/federal workers with the union controlled by government) for unions to be strong you bet they will be strong. When it stops being a voluntary thing it's gone to far. When your representation from you to your employer IS your employer the system is flawed.

I don't get you point here at all. I work with this shit daily. Union shops are just as corrupt as the businesses you claim are the reason for them being the way they are.

There will never be 'order' or fairness in a situation where a strong chain of command is circumvented in place of strong representation.

So you really mean...

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

I figured it out.

-Republicans "stealing" your money(taxes) is bad, and always corrupt...but when it's used on your behalf it is 'ok' as 'you deseve it'

-Democrats "stealing" your money (taxes) is good, and never corrupt, as it's going to nonsensical things like abstract art presentations, as it 'broadens the masses minds'

-Unions "stealing" it's members money(union dues) and spending it in the name of the union (although you really have no clue where it's spent or used for, often times lobbying) is ok, as I'm part of the team!

-Corporations/financial institutions getting tax breaks and subsidies and spending it on growing the business and employing mere (which forces them to pay more taxes) is bad.

To me, the Occutard's biggest issue is that they refuse to accept accountability on their own behalf. Half of what they are pointing fingers at for being 'corrupt' they are just as guilty of themselves.

[Walperstyle]

All protestors and people angry at 'wall street' should read these books.

Explains in great detail how the demographic changes and what will change with it


also these from Robert Kiyosaki whom was a kid with ambition


He also wrote a book about how the economy was going to crash before it actually did


automatic millionaire


These are just some books I read when I probably should be been going to college. Either way, I have a 5 bedroom house, and yes, I worked hard for it, but I also realize how to turn bad situations around into good ones. It helps to understand tax laws, and how to create passive income without advice from bankers.

reason: Bankers protect the bank, and try to get you to 'diversify'. I daily traded GM and Ford shares in 2008 and 2009. Gaining (and loosing at times) upwards of 800%. No bank will give you that return.

Now is actually the best time to profit on the market, because people are confused. Fear allows the little guy to buy in low before companies rebound.

Also helps to learn to use OPM (other peoples money) aka, Banks, renters, etc. Got a business idea, get someone else to pay to set it up. Thats what I'm doing right now.

[RJF]

Originally Posted by codyace

To me, the Occutard's biggest issue is that they refuse to accept accountability on their own behalf. Half of what they are pointing fingers at for being 'corrupt' they are just as guilty of themselves.

Amen.

That's not just the problem with the Occutards, but the problem with many in this country. They've got their hand out and are expecting someone else to give them what they want.

JFK said it best: "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"

Whatever happened to self-reliance and personal responsibility? Government, especially the Progressives want people so reliant on the government that the government has the ultimate power and control over every aspect, the Founding Fathers didn't want a powerful government, but that's what we've got now.

[TheWolf]

Originally Posted by RJF

Whatever happened to self-reliance and personal responsibility? Government, especially the Progressives want people so reliant on the government that the government has the ultimate power and control over every aspect, the Founding Fathers didn't want a powerful government, but that's what we've got now.

I prefer the phrase "contrary to what you've been told, no one owes you anything".

If you haven't noticed, this "indoctrination" has become part of the gov't marketing plan that starts in college. The fafsa forms, going to "One Stop" for financial aid, etc. Then when you need unemployment and food stamps? Oh you goto "One Stop". Wow it looks just like the one on campus. It's designed to reduce the stigma associated with taking gov't assistance. The problem is that there is no stigma anymore. There's a belief that regardless of any economic issue. The Gov't will always be around to provide benefits and a whole social class has built it's existence around just existing for free.

A more prophetic quote would be.

"when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors—when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you—when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice—you may know that your society is doomed.”-Ayn Rand

As far out as people seem, there is no turning back though. When confronted with an enemy, there are only 3 things that you can do.

Attack
Compromise
Retreat

The tea party and the OWS party are not about compromise and I truly believe that if you look at our political system, compromise is gone. Attacking or retreating are the only two options left and that polarization is present in all of america. There is an all or none end game that is being played for what remains of american tax dollars. Define the middle of the road and you get nothing anymore. You can't have low taxes, great social programs, a balanced budget and happiness for all. Something must give and the country has reached a fork in the road; there are only two directions it can go in. At this point, you've got the path towards socialism. Higher taxes, more money spent, and greater "economic justice". The other direction is towards limited gov't, no nation building and fend for yourself.

Politicians want both because they enjoy spending other peoples money for their own end but that is over. America doesn't just need a balanced budget amendment, they need a way to lower the national debt. This whole debt "super committee" is a stall tactic. Instead of shooting a BB gun at the freight train of debt, they're going to use a .22lr. "At least 4x the power of the previous try, definitely going to work". Neither side is going to implement sound fiscal change unless it's at the end of a gun barrel. Both sides have gone so far as to manipulate financial markets to further their own reckless spending. Ponzi schemes, trick accountings, realizing savings now for things that will be 10 years off, even trying to incorporate "interest payment reduction" as part of "savings".

There's no way to fix entitlement thinking though. You can either feed them, or let them starve. Continue giving handouts, free food, free gas, free rent, free income tax, free health care, etc. That population will continue to demand free something else next week. They will never continue to be responsible and they will never value something that's free. So you can either feed them, let them starve, or kill them. There's no compromising with that. That's the choice that faces america, and politicians will tap dance around it until there is no other choice.

[mantas]

Originally Posted by Walperstyle

All protestors and people angry at 'wall street' should read these books.

Explains in great detail how the demographic changes and what will change with it


also these from Robert Kiyosaki whom was a kid with ambition


He also wrote a book about how the economy was going to crash before it actually did


automatic millionaire


These are just some books I read when I probably should be been going to college. Either way, I have a 5 bedroom house, and yes, I worked hard for it, but I also realize how to turn bad situations around into good ones. It helps to understand tax laws, and how to create passive income without advice from bankers.

reason: Bankers protect the bank, and try to get you to 'diversify'. I daily traded GM and Ford shares in 2008 and 2009. Gaining (and loosing at times) upwards of 800%. No bank will give you that return.

Now is actually the best time to profit on the market, because people are confused. Fear allows the little guy to buy in low before companies rebound.

Also helps to learn to use OPM (other peoples money) aka, Banks, renters, etc. Got a business idea, get someone else to pay to set it up. Thats what I'm doing right now.

Only read rich dad poor dad from your list, but have read others by kiyo. And it was as if i was reading my own words, im a true believer in working hard and keeping your money to yourself. Only absolute idiots use their own money to fund a business. Find a sucker that will pay for it!

You my friend missed one big key point - a house is not an asset its a liability. But im really glad you made those books work to your advantage!! And although you got a house first instead of starting a business you made it happen.

On the other hand, i missed the train with gm and ford, i gave advise to a friend and now he has a house and i just sat back and watched him make trades, what a shame! Add to friends and remember these zilvians hame no edu,acation so you cant beat an ounce of sense into them, i try constantly...lol

[Walperstyle]

"a house is not an asset its a liability"
It all depends on location, and how its being paid off. I forgot to mention I had renters covering some of my mortgage, and an exchange student for the last year has brought in $600/mo too.

Best advice for anyone in the stock market is to look for Fear Mongers. Back during the 'crash' I purposely looked at huge companies like Ford and GM that were not going to go away. You buy when the stock is sitting at an all time low. ...let the fear mongers loose money while you gain 100%+ in a very short time when it 'bounces'. I did the same with Nortel Networks back a few years ago too. Purchased at 79 cents, sold at $3 before they finally went under.

Play on fear, as well as researching good technology before its released to the world. Another big one for me was XM and Sirius satellite radio way before they had TV commercials. Also stay connected to technology and where the world is going. Go to ted.com and find out what scientists and smart people are talking about.

Also, Look for opportunity during disasters, natural or man made to profit.

Then, once you have made it, give some of that money back to less fortunate. I have not made it yet, but I sponsor two kids overseas. Two families technically get to eat and go to school.

[mantas]

Originally Posted by Walperstyle

"a house is not an asset its a liability"
It all depends on location, and how its being paid off. I forgot to mention I had renters covering some of my mortgage, and an exchange student for the last year has brought in $600/mo too.

Best advice for anyone in the stock market is to look for Fear Mongers. Back during the 'crash' I purposely looked at huge companies like Ford and GM that were not going to go away. You buy when the stock is sitting at an all time low. ...let the fear mongers loose money while you gain 100%+ in a very short time when it 'bounces'. I did the same with Nortel Networks back a few years ago too. Purchased at 79 cents, sold at $3 before they finally went under.

Play on fear, as well as researching good technology before its released to the world. Another big one for me was XM and Sirius satellite radio way before they had TV commercials. Also stay connected to technology and where the world is going. Go to ted.com and find out what scientists and smart people are talking about.

Also, Look for opportunity during disasters, natural or man made to profit.

Then, once you have made it, give some of that money back to less fortunate. I have not made it yet, but I sponsor two kids overseas. Two families technically get to eat and go to school.

Absolutely nothing wrong with buying a home, but I would rather have a steady income from an investment first than a cash outlay and a big debt tied to my name - even if some of the mortgage is covered by renters.

From your track record you know exactly what you are doing so no point in discussing that, and you are an example of people like myself. When we do make money we give it back, I do donate in small amounts to AIDS foundations Cancer etc, but only after I do my homework as I do not trust most of these bullshit organizations. On the other hand I do get a tax write-off. HAHA.

Keep it going, and do you trade stocks only? I did a lot of options trading but got greedy and eventually started back at square one.

[Matej]

[Walperstyle]

Well, I talked to some protestors today. Got them angry.

I simply said 'instead of being against something, how about you get creative and make change'.... I love street trolling.

The next generation of successful people can take advantage right now if they get a little creative. You can be successful and do good in society.

TED: Ideas worth spreading

[Walperstyle]

Originally Posted by RJF

JFK said it best: "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"

Exactly. Every person in the US has the ability to hit the stars if they spent the time to learn laws and how the 'big guys' do it. Now's the time to make the change. It starts with the individual, not the government.

[kingkilburn]

The government has to be willing to play ball too.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by Walperstyle

Exactly. Every person in the US has the ability to hit the stars if they spent the time to learn laws and how the 'big guys' do it. Now's the time to make the change. It starts with the individual, not the government.

Well said. If half these protesters spent the same energy bettering themselves, they'd outdoubtedly be better off. However those in rough times often resort to pointing fingers instead of adapting. Shame that there is an ever-growing number of those who accept failure and would rather change the rules, instead of abiding and overcoming.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

The government has to be willing to play ball too.

True, but they shouldn't bend overbackwards to help out the helpless.

[kingkilburn]

They equally shouldn't bend over for big business and banks.

All I ask for is a level playing field and a fair crack the success I have worked for.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

They equally shouldn't bend over for big business and banks.

All I ask for is a level playing field and a fair crack the success I have worked for.

I agree. Kinda like how I wish I wasn't forced to pay unemployment on my derelict workers...and that they should float their own bill etc etc. Trust me, businesses are legally forced to 'suck it' in many cases as well (well at least the ones who abide by employment laws...1099 fly by night places need not apply here) here...I guess being a small business owner, I get fucked the most as we get shafted from big brother, get shafted by crappy employees who cost us in the end, etc etc.

[Carbomb]

Originally Posted by codyace

I agree. Kinda like how I wish I wasn't forced to pay unemployment on my derelict workers...and that they should float their own bill etc etc. Trust me, businesses are legally forced to 'suck it' in many cases as well (well at least the ones who abide by employment laws...1099 fly by night places need not apply here) here...I guess being a small business owner, I get fucked the most as we get shafted from big brother, get shafted by crappy employees who cost us in the end, etc etc.

^ gotta play the game...
if you dont they will play you

[codyace]

Originally Posted by Toadstool

^ gotta play the game...
if you dont they will play you

I know the game -- I just often like to remind those who immediately paint the picture of businesses running amok with their tax breaks and help, that they also get their own fair share of a 'screwing' as well. Trust me when I say the amount of money we could save from these employee safety nets is a strong amount.

[RJF]

Wall Street Heroes

[revcyanide]

the amount of stupidity in this thread from both sides is astounding.



This is why nothing will ever change in this country, politics have become extreme left, or extreme right. Absolutely no compromise.

Tea party has some great ideas, and some fucking dumb as shit ones. Wanting a government shutdown during a recession is a sure fire way to shoot us headfirst into a depression.
OWS has a GREAT message, and things that really need to change, I don't care where you aligning yourself politically. However they do not convery it well, and has attracted a LOT of idiots who have no idea what this was originally about, and are protesting war, and captillism, and anything they can come with that they think is bad.



What this country needs, is bipartisan-ship again. we need politicians who can agree on things, Who can actually work out a damn budget, who can agree to cut spending AND increase revenue through taxes (our taxes are the lowest they have been in 50+ years.)

And in order for THAT to happen, we need civilians who can see the value in other people ideas, not calling people anti Semites and racist. It is easy to pick out the bottom of the barrel people from the someone with opposing views as yourself, but to understand their views and see where some of them might be good, that deserves true respect.

[mantas]

Originally Posted by RJF

Wall Street Heroes

WINNING!!!

MOD close this thread, we have reached a verdict. HAHAHA