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Old 11-29-2018, 01:48 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX View Post
Well it seems one should just skip M11 then, as M11 time serts are larger in diameter than M12x1.25 threads, and I know that 1/2in studs are really close to too big for the block and you can start running into wall thickness issues depending on core shift.

Good call on the washers, I've never put them in a KA head but we use them in the 4G63 platform.
I wouldn't necessarily say so, m12s would require machining done to the head to be able to torque the fastener, unless someone create some sort of custom nut to allow use of smaller socket. Not needed with m11s, and with l19/ca625, you'll still get comparable clamping loads which probably sufficient for 95% of builds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by simmode1 View Post
Holy shit. Man, development for the KA lately has been so cool to see. Thanks for explaining, guys. Who do we owe thanks for these headstub/timesert discoveries for the KA? Did this come from Tomei or some KA-T community diehard?
The idea of using a bigger headstud in KA has kicked around for awhile. Dsport had wrote an article about using timeserts for a bigger stud in KAs, but i'm sure they probably got the idea from somewhere else as well, they just brought it to light. Duncan351 documented the use of insert washers with the KA.

http://dsportmag.com/the-tech/how-to...of-any-engine/

http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php
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Old 11-29-2018, 02:04 PM   #32
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this thread is cool; sub'd. glad to see it staying civil. love the geeking out over small stuff like headstud size.
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Old 11-29-2018, 02:44 PM   #33
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I guess i could do up some pros and cons on Ka24de, since we're talking about it.

Pros:
-original equipped engine, so no dot/carb/epa/etc. fussiness
-iron block durability
-good low/midrange tq due to long stroke and displacement
-decent rod/stroke ratio even with larger displacement
-simple shim over bucket valvetrain
-240 KA blocks utilizes a one piece main cap girdle design and piston squirters
-Factory forged crank and rods
-Aftermarket support has gotten better in the last 10 years

Cons:
-original engine, so high mileage engines will probably need a refresh/rebuild in most cases
-iron block is heavy
-Distributor ignition
-Factory cams are bad in any application except maybe economy
-long stroke = reaches critical piston speeds quicker
-Half counterweighted crank
-Cast pistons, low hp capacity
-aftermarket support still isn't anywhere near sr20, evo, etc.
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Old 11-30-2018, 06:37 AM   #34
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What about 4G63?





Pros:
Massive aftermarket support
Factory internals good for 400wtq
Legendary iron block durability
Great oil pump
hydraulic lifter head that's good for short bursts to 10,000rpm+
Mivec (Evo 9) for a broad power band
Bellhousing adapters available for a variety of transmissions

Cons:
No swap kit, so everything is custom fabricated
Cooling system needs to either be modified or coolant routed from back of head
Not a popular swap, so very little support for "swap problems"
Heavy
Reliability modifications necessary (Balance shaft delete)
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Old 11-30-2018, 07:25 AM   #35
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May as well go 4B11T. Least it was made for inline installs.
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Old 11-30-2018, 10:48 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiSilS14 View Post
Cons:
-Factory cams are bad in any application except maybe economy
Imma have to disagree on this, plenty dudes run stock intake, heads and cams making almost equal HP/TQ, in the KA groups we always recommend an intake and some generic 264 cams if you're trying to push more than 500 and want just a tad more flow up top.

What I do want to see since I havent seen any proper numbers or reviews is the tomei poncams for the KA, I wouldnt mind the less torque to save my stock trans for some more highend rev and more brap sounds.
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Old 11-30-2018, 11:46 AM   #37
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As much as I love the 4G, it seems overly complex to achieve the same results a properly sorted VET will get you sans the complexity of making mounts, trans adapter, intake manifold, exhaust manifold, coolant routing, etc etc. 4G iron block is soemwhat heavier than the a SR.

Non billet mains, etc should be good for just shy of 600WHP before block cracking issues on stock sleeves. At which point, a proper Plazaman girdle and billet mains and you are good for well over 800 WHP. Throw some sleeves in and you are at the cost of entry for custom trans adpater, mounts, etc just to get the 4G into a S chassis.
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Old 11-30-2018, 01:05 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiSilS14 View Post
The idea of using a bigger headstud in KA has kicked around for awhile. Dsport had wrote an article about using timeserts for a bigger stud in KAs, but i'm sure they probably got the idea from somewhere else as well, they just brought it to light. Duncan351 documented the use of insert washers with the KA.

http://dsportmag.com/the-tech/how-to...of-any-engine/

http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php
Thanks man. I haven't been to KA-T.org in years. Let me go see whats new over there...
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Old 11-30-2018, 02:00 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3b View Post
Imma have to disagree on this, plenty dudes run stock intake, heads and cams making almost equal HP/TQ, in the KA groups we always recommend an intake and some generic 264 cams if you're trying to push more than 500 and want just a tad more flow up top.

What I do want to see since I havent seen any proper numbers or reviews is the tomei poncams for the KA, I wouldnt mind the less torque to save my stock trans for some more highend rev and more brap sounds.
The additional airflow from a turbo makes stock cams not seem as bad, but they're still terrible, minus maybe the dual 248 cams. Take a look at any stock Kade dyno, torque falls off really bad after 4-4.5k. Just about any engine platform is going to benefit from bigger cams, but with KAs just more so.
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Old 11-30-2018, 02:59 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S14DB View Post
May as well go 4B11T. Least it was made for inline installs.
Negative. There are no 4B11's in longitudinal applications. The genesis engine is 2-bolt main, different head, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3b View Post
Imma have to disagree on this, plenty dudes run stock intake, heads and cams making almost equal HP/TQ, in the KA groups we always recommend an intake and some generic 264 cams if you're trying to push more than 500 and want just a tad more flow up top.

What I do want to see since I havent seen any proper numbers or reviews is the tomei poncams for the KA, I wouldnt mind the less torque to save my stock trans for some more highend rev and more brap sounds.
The old addage of "cams shift power right" isn't always true nowadays. Cam profiles are much better, and you generally make more power everywhere with a mild set, except maybe under 3000rpm, which we all know is pointless anyway. A set of cams massively improves the KA's powerband. The only reason they make equal hp/tq is because they have a big torque hit with boost and then hp falls way off up top. Rally car powerbands aren't ideal lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RalliartRsX View Post
As much as I love the 4G, it seems overly complex to achieve the same results a properly sorted VET will get you sans the complexity of making mounts, trans adapter, intake manifold, exhaust manifold, coolant routing, etc etc. 4G iron block is soemwhat heavier than the a SR.

Non billet mains, etc should be good for just shy of 600WHP before block cracking issues on stock sleeves. At which point, a proper Plazaman girdle and billet mains and you are good for well over 800 WHP. Throw some sleeves in and you are at the cost of entry for custom trans adpater, mounts, etc just to get the 4G into a S chassis.
Dang, I haven't been following the SR world for a while, guys are pushing 600+ on stock sleeves? That's awesome.

Yeah it's all pretty close. VE head is much better than a 4G63 flow wise. The dirt cheap engine and lack of expensive machining is really the only advantage if you're looking to push big power I guess.
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Old 12-17-2018, 03:18 PM   #41
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Stock VQ35HR on 265's = reliable rocket ship.

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Old 08-21-2019, 05:18 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiSilS14 View Post
I guess i could do up some pros and cons on Ka24de, since we're talking about it.

Pros:
-original equipped engine, so no dot/carb/epa/etc. fussiness
-iron block durability
-good low/midrange tq due to long stroke and displacement
-decent rod/stroke ratio even with larger displacement
-simple shim over bucket valvetrain
-240 KA blocks utilizes a one piece main cap girdle design and piston squirters
-Factory forged crank and rods
-Aftermarket support has gotten better in the last 10 years

Cons:
-original engine, so high mileage engines will probably need a refresh/rebuild in most cases
-iron block is heavy
-Distributor ignition
-Factory cams are bad in any application except maybe economy
-long stroke = reaches critical piston speeds quicker
-Half counterweighted crank
-Cast pistons, low hp capacity
-aftermarket support still isn't anywhere near sr20, evo, etc.
QTF gota say, this was well written, this kinda what I'm lookin for

its too easy because it comes in the 240
I want this but lets include other platforms, cars, etc... any car that you think is worthy RWD candidate... weight, style, parts, it all counts and if it isn't we will all point and laugh


Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX View Post
What about 4G63?





Pros:
Massive aftermarket support
Factory internals good for 400wtq
Legendary iron block durability
Great oil pump
hydraulic lifter head that's good for short bursts to 10,000rpm+
Mivec (Evo 9) for a broad power band
Bellhousing adapters available for a variety of transmissions

Cons:
No swap kit, so everything is custom fabricated
Cooling system needs to either be modified or coolant routed from back of head
Not a popular swap, so very little support for "swap problems"
Heavy
Reliability modifications necessary (Balance shaft delete)
This was well done , however it leaves me wanting to know much more.
What is 4g63 weight, we must compare it with sr20, and aluminum LS engine for sure. Also 3SGTE and similar 1.8L engines I am curious weight difference. Nothing quite like removing 100lbs from the nose of a RWD vehicle. There are not many FWD engines I would adapt to RWD but the 4G and similarly famous 1.8~range is applicable.
I am curious about the ignition, dwell, coils, typical gap, racer details. Oil control strats that work right out of the box, where do most people buy their 'built' 4g63, what piston alloy is typically selected, the list man we need the list


I'm curious about corolla-weight cars (2200-2800 ranges) using 1.6-2.2L engines RWD around 300-500hp... And slightly heavier options (2800-3400lbs) using slightly larger engines (2.5-3.5L) and of course an aluminum LS can go into anything easily so thats always a worthwhile comparison contrast unit.

The LS platform is sort of like a 'bare minimum' or how you say 'standard comparison' because there are so many statistics on them in all manner of weight range RWD platforms... so this is a chance to see how other platforms and engines stack up against them.

I'll come back eventually with some more SR vs LS in a 240 platform comparisons but I want to learn more about the other engines and cars... thank you those who contribute valuable experience there was more than just the above those were just highlights so far
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Old 08-22-2019, 05:29 AM   #43
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Surprised no one has listed the K24 yet.. I dont know many of the details off hand but there are a few swaps into S-chassis out there
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Old 08-22-2019, 06:58 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenkicpe View Post
Surprised no one has listed the K24 yet.. I dont know many of the details off hand but there are a few swaps into S-chassis out there
Funny, I was thinking about posting the same thing. K20s and K24s are awesome. In very basic terms, they're similar to an SR20VE engine, but a lot cheaper to acquire - installing may be a different story. K20s share their R/S ration with a 2JZ only they're obviously four cylinder.

They seem like stout little engines, main cons are the sump set up when converting to RWD, the inlet options when converting to RWD and also the transmission options.

I recently bought a K20A6 (9.5:1 CR) for £80 (~100USD) and sold the transmission for £70 (~85USD) - they can be picked up cheap.
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Old 08-22-2019, 11:18 AM   #45
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^^ Apparently Touge Factory is working on a "bolt-in" K-swap kit for the S-Chassis... It's going to keep the stock subframe and steering rack.

Hert did a video with them talking about it on his way to Final Bout.
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Old 08-22-2019, 11:43 AM   #46
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Old 08-22-2019, 01:02 PM   #47
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13b rotary
pros revs to the moon! lol 9k factory
smooth power delivery
small size
~300lbs with all accessories
self "cleaning"
fewer moving parts so less to worry about
best power delivery ratio
can just add more rotors to make more power
easy to rebuild


cons
high heat
seals develop carbon buildup quickly causing loss in compression and need for frequent rebuilds
poor economy compared to similar engine displacements
consumes oil due to oil injection system
launching can cause rotors to become inbalanced
factory ignition system tends to be weak
rebuild easily messed up with seals being primarily silicone


ej25
pros
self balancing
lots of power per displacement
efficient and compact design
design enables engine to be mounted lower and thereby lower center of gravity of vehicle
factory up to 400hp reliably
easy to work on
easy to maintain
easy to rebuild


cons
high heat
head gaskets blow as apparent regular maintenance (normally due to overheating)
poor economy compared to other 4 cylinders
parts are a little pricier
factory exhaust also causes heat buildup contributing to burnt valves
factory pistons can crush ringlands without changing factory configurations (boost, fuel, timing etc)
bulky horizontally due to tall heads on either side
lots of electronics that fail, especially emissions devices
poor economy with modifications, scaling far worse than other 4 cylinders eg: 565 injectors ~23mpg mixed on my sti, 1300 injectors ~16mpg mixed driving (i know can get smaller injector and prob would do better lol)
factory tune contributes to engine failure
factory oiling system prone to issues




both just thoughts i had regarding a blown rotory i just swapped out for a guy and my current sti!
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Old 08-22-2019, 01:27 PM   #48
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Mercedes- Benz M270/m274 found in the Infiniti Q60. Pro it can handle 400hp in the 2018 or newer versions.

Cons it only comes awd or fwd.

I was told there is a rwd version in Germany, but couldn't find it.
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Old 08-22-2019, 02:10 PM   #49
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Quote:
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^^ Apparently Touge Factory is working on a "bolt-in" K-swap kit for the S-Chassis... It's going to keep the stock subframe and steering rack.

Hert did a video with them talking about it on his way to Final Bout.
There is whole video from Speed Academy on how its done and the oil pan looks horrible.
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Old 08-22-2019, 04:12 PM   #50
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Quote:
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There is whole video from Speed Academy on how its done and the oil pan looks horrible.
??? What does that Speed Academy K-Swap series have to do with the full "drop-in" kit Touge Factory is working on?
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Old 08-23-2019, 06:00 AM   #51
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Only problem with the k swap is the height of the engine. I know Speed academy had to space their subframe down and was hoping TF would find a workaround but i talked to them and they had to space it down as well. They said it was only 7mm but till kinda annoying
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Old 08-23-2019, 06:28 AM   #52
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Old 08-23-2019, 08:36 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by rv_zenki View Post
Only problem with the k swap is the height of the engine. I know Speed academy had to space their subframe down and was hoping TF would find a workaround but i talked to them and they had to space it down as well. They said it was only 7mm but till kinda annoying
I believe the solution is a modified oil pump pickup. I have an S2000 pump for my application, I have just seen how TF plan to do it but I plan to do it another way again.

Once I have developed this I will look into a tubular (read thinner) subframe to help drop the motor even lower.
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Old 08-23-2019, 09:42 AM   #54
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Only problem with the k swap is the height of the engine. I know Speed academy had to space their subframe down and was hoping TF would find a workaround but i talked to them and they had to space it down as well. They said it was only 7mm but till kinda annoying
Is dropping the front subframe by that much a pretty big negative?
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Old 08-23-2019, 01:17 PM   #55
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Is dropping the front subframe by that much a pretty big negative?
It will affect your geometry a lot, especially when you go as extreme as they did. As much as I love what Speed Academy did, sometimes their techniques left a lot to be desired...

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Old 08-23-2019, 02:30 PM   #56
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ej25
pros
self balancing
lots of power per displacement
efficient and compact design
design enables engine to be mounted lower and thereby lower center of gravity of vehicle
factory up to 400hp reliably
easy to work on
easy to maintain
easy to rebuild


cons
high heat
head gaskets blow as apparent regular maintenance (normally due to overheating)
poor economy compared to other 4 cylinders
parts are a little pricier
factory exhaust also causes heat buildup contributing to burnt valves
factory pistons can crush ringlands without changing factory configurations (boost, fuel, timing etc)
bulky horizontally due to tall heads on either side
lots of electronics that fail, especially emissions devices
poor economy with modifications, scaling far worse than other 4 cylinders eg: 565 injectors ~23mpg mixed on my sti, 1300 injectors ~16mpg mixed driving (i know can get smaller injector and prob would do better lol)
factory tune contributes to engine failure
factory oiling system prone to issues




both just thoughts i had regarding a blown rotory i just swapped out for a guy and my current sti!



These two things do not correlate.


Also EJ25 in an s-chassis? That is something I've never seen/read/heard of
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:48 PM   #57
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I hate to eliminate them but the V6 and split 4-cylinder designs do not apply in this thread at all in any shape or form for a variety of reasons, mostly due to inherent complexity vs superior alternatives.
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Old 08-31-2019, 09:48 AM   #58
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https://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread....-Sil80-Project

4G63 swapped 200SX S13. Seems like a really interesting build, more for the technical stuff like the wiring and how the owner has engineered the shifting geekery on page 9/10
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Old 09-01-2019, 08:22 AM   #59
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There's a guy here that swapped a BEAMS 3sge from an Altezza into an s chassis. Seems like a great alternative to the SR and the exhaust side is on the same side to make plumbing for fuel and exhaust easier. The closed deck iron block and the Yamaha-built high flowing dual vvti cylinder head make for a stout NA or boosted engine. They also come with a 6 speed trans and are less than $1500 for a motorset.
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Old 09-03-2019, 01:02 PM   #60
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hexa garage made motor mounts that allow for a vq35hr to fit under a stock hood. Might work for the vq37 too but im not sure. Not a bad route for easy and reliable 300-330hp.
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