Nistune information guide - How tos, a guide for you

[handinpants]

Nistune informative thread First off I, and a few others are working on this together to help you get started with nistune. For those of you who don't know anything about nistune,

NIStune is a real-time tuning suite designed especially for Nissans which provides the ability to:

• Retune factory Nissan Engine Control Units (ECU)
• Monitor gauges and map tracing on your ECU
• Data log from your ECU using consult, wideband and auxiliary inputs
• Perform playback using graphs, gauges and map tracing

It provides:

• Connectivity for up to two emulators simultaneously (Pocket Romulator and Moates Ostrich)
• Loads and Saves files in regular and odd/even formats for chip burning (EPROM/FLASH)
• Support for up to two simultaneous wideband units (various commercial units supported)
• Communication to our specially developed NIStune Real-time boards to perform real-time tuning

Features:

• Real time tuning, map tracing, logging and playback
• Consult display capabilities with real time diagnostic information in a separate window
• Full Log Recording and playback is available for all consult variants.
• Dual channel Wide Band support
• Wideband can also be recorded inline with consult data and played back.
• Edit five ROM images simulatenously, with comparison capabilities
• Map and table copy feature
• Intelligent display tables decoded for easy modification
• Completely editable multi window grid, map/table views
• Knock cells highlightable, pinpoint map trace configurable for follow and trail functionality, cell marking available
• Resize injectors and change AFM capabilities
• Real time RAM monitoring system
• AFR and auxillary input trace against RPM and load
• Hardware and software installation guides and manuals provided

over the next month or so, I will be documenting the process of installation, and tuning with nistune on my J4 ecu sr20DET, you will learn that you too can make reliable power with out breaking the bank....

Rules for posting in this thread:
please if you are going to post here, please keep it on the topic, this is a thread created to educate you about nistune, the installation process, tuning process, and the experience i am going through getting it all done.

If you have a problem with your nistune feel free to post a question.

If you have something to post about some other tuning program, standalone, this thread is about nistune only please start your own thread.


Stay tuned......

dcperformance.com --socal's authorized nistune Shop

[handinpants]

hexdmy

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4
Trader Rating: (0)


Ok, so back to the INFORMATIVE part of this thread, t

So here goes my first Nistune installation:

Stock ecu

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Removing the conformal coating in preparation for de-soldering (note: the conformal coating will get on you fingers) with lacquer thinner.

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After cleaning with lacquer thinner to remove conformal coating, I used alcohol to remove residue.

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I applied a strip of flux to make it easier to de-solder the holes on the ecu board. The guys at Nistune encourage people to be very careful here during the de-solder process as the traces on the ecu are very fragile.

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Using the HAKKO de-soldering tool, I think it would be difficult to use a manual solder sucker that you might find at Radio Shack, or at least I have not had good luck with those devices in the past.

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Here I'm inserting the ribbon cable into the board, this requires a little patience as the cable required a bit of wiggling to get all of the little wire to go through the board at the same time.

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Nistune recommends tack soldering the cable on this side first to hold it in place before flipping the ecu over and soldering all of the connections.

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Soldering all of the connections, for those that don't do a lot of soldering, it is very important to keep your soldering tip clean with a wet sponge during the soldering process.

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I know this picture does not really show it, but I'm looking for nice even solder joints that have a nice shinny appearance. If the solder joint looks dull or matte , you may want to flux and re-flow that solder connection.

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The last soldering step is to remove the resistor at position R021 to position R020, this tells the ecu to access the Nistune board instead of the normal ROM.

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Fitting the type 4 Nistune board, there was conformal coating in two of the screw holes, so I used a dab of lacquer thinner to soften the coating, and the screws went right in.

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Done ! Hope to test it on Steve's car tomorrow.

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click here to see video of it hooked up in handinpant's car http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An1NhPvQMRM

[GSXRJJordan]

Sweet, can't wait to see more. I'm looking for a 92-94 VG30DE Maxima ECU for my RB25 to go Nistune on towards the end of the year, glad there's a shop here in Socal that's takin it up!

[handinpants]

numbers are in:
I went from a baseline of 219whp and 227 wheel torque
ended up with 268whp and 277wheel torque. Tuned on DC performance's Dynapak setup. videos and pics will be posted shortly.

[TheWolf]

so you made 49HP and 50ftlbs with just changing the ECU and not changing the boost?

[hexdmy]

Originally Posted by TheWolf

so you made 49HP and 50ftlbs with just changing the ECU and not changing the boost?

We did increase the boost, I'm not sure how much of the power gains were from the boost increase, but I can tell you that the previous tune, that the car came in with, was not optimal for Steve's setup. Specifically, it was very rich, which was causing drivability issues, and the load scaling (TP or theoretical pulse width) was not setup correctly with the MAF/injector combination that was installed on the car. Basically we were running to the end of the timing and target afr lookup tables well before our target boost levels. So whether we were running 8 psi boost or 18, our timing values remained constant, which is not a good thing. Because the car was running so rich, it has some very noticeable drivability issues (ie misfiring) , that were not nearly as oblivious on the dyno, as on the road. Below are the power graphs and aft/boost graph.

[4x4le]

What boost controller are you using? The boost spike and then sudden dip shows that it isnt reacting fast enough. Usually dips at your peak tq area are alarming but it can be seen by the map logging that your boost controller is at fault for that. Never the less it can make tuning difficult because its hard to tell the difference between too much timing and pressure drop from the sudden wastegate opening.

Do you have a gain control on your boost controller?

Im not trying to be negative, the rest of the graph looks smooth. I just think the car will feel more controllable and more powerful if this small detail can be overcome.

The boost controller seems to settle down just fine too after max boost is reached so I dont think its a solenoid problem, I think its most likely a setting on the controller itself.

[silly_13]

nice write up steven!

[handinpants]

i have a blitz dual sbc spec s, with the gain set at 25, and the boost setting at 65. before gain was set at 20 or 25, and boost setting was at 50. but still whoever designed the blitz dual sbc made it very confusing, and not very user friendly. i am happy with the gains, but still not sure how the heck the boost controller is supposed to function..... any input?" and yeah the old tune was a rom tune, like the kind you send your ecu to and they tune it based on their tune, then expect it to produce the same results in someone elses car..... but thats another story, i am happy as hell at the results i am getting way better gas mileage per tank, though my rear tires aren't very happy...

[handinpants]

hey i wanted to post up this video

YouTube - Nissan 180sx

[steve shadows]

After playing with a Nis-Tune unit for a customer I have these main reservations still...


1. The unit will not allow Real Time tuning as is
2. The unit will not allow you to actually tune the map if you install the software more than 3 times. That means if you buy this product and you have a systems crash and you own more than three computers which many now do you are totally SOL.
3. The unit does not allow you to adjust while the car is running. You have to Image the map and then "burn" it to the eprom, this is not a standalone unit. This is the definition of a reprogrammable chip just as I thought.
4. The layout of and the ergonomics of the maps and adjustments are very generic or confusing and not very clear compared to FC Data logit for Power FC or Haltech Software. There is much more room for improvement.
Some of the descriptions and adjustments do not even use the standard Vocabulary that most EFI universities or engineering schools refer to in some cases.

That being said It is still a cool unit. However once it is all said and done the cost of the unit is almost as much as a Power FC, which you CAN tune in read time using fc logit or the provided software, you can map trace IN REAL TIME and you do not need to use an outside EMULATOR or additional ghost unit to tune the car in real time.

REAL TIME TUNING: Tuning while the engine in running and watching the power, EGT, knock and AFR in REAL TIME and adjusting a given cell in the MAP while the car is running, under power on the dyno, rolling to see IMMEDIATE results and to adjust accordingly over and over in steady state to fine tune every single cell

Most believe real time tuning is simply tuning the car while the engine is running...NOT SO

That is not true real time function adjustment...Haltech is the one who pioneered this and for Nissan the PFC is a more affordable way to do this with the FC Datalogit because you can adjust a cell and hit "write all" over and over while running and on the dyno for the same effect...

If I am missing something I apologize but it doesnt seem like this is possible for just the cost of the Regular old Nistune setup!

Unless you have dyno tuned cars you would not really understand why this is soo important to truly get the most out of the unit.

If someone could address the emulator and software license issue I still believe this package is overpriced by about 100-150 dollars just purely on the fact you have to image the rom and are not actually re-programming the actual computer.

Before anyone goes into a fit, these are VERY VALID concerns when one is evaluating price and the true capabilty of the unit they are buying. The consult and logging abilities of Nistune are great but when you are buying a REPROGRAMMABLE Engine Management unit the number one focus should be how does this product meet my needs to get the most out of my engine during the actual process of TUNING. This was much less impressive than I was expecting it to be and I don't really see how it is a "better deal" when you can get a used power fc in many cases for a couple hundred dollars less than this

Please answer these questions

1. explain exactly how to tune the unit in Real Time without using an Emulator or external side ecu. As in real time I am rolling on the Dyno Dynamics watching tractive effort and I need to raise or lower timing value in real time to see tractive effort go up or down so I can tune in steady state...

2. explain how to handle the software issue because nistune still has not allowed the consumer software to be free and fully downloadable.

3. Also explain the refresh rate of the "Target AFR" function...target AFR mapping is notorious even on highly advanced quick refresh units like Haltech to be AWEFUL. This is not "tuning" and typically the ecu will over correct or undercorrect and this causes sporadic high temperature period in the engine leading eventually to valve sealing seating issues, hot spots in the combustion chamber and cracked exhaust manifolds (very common)...I would not suggest using this function on the Nis-Tune if you have one. You should edit raw values but you will need to do this IN REAL TIME to really get each cell right....

I am happy to answer and questions of members regarding my experience with the unit and my reservations.

Again I do not sell any hardware and do not have an personal relationships with any company that sells hardware or units. I am purely a weekend dyno tuner with a very specific specialty (Nissan and BMW EFI).

Thanks

[4x4le]

Steve, if you were using an emmulater and you didnt have real time capabilitys you were not using a real full nistune setup. Pm me you number and i will give you a call sunday and i will explain stuff to you. Your consirns with this setup still seem whack because you still are yet to deal with an ecu that has been modified properly with nistune.

[steve shadows]

A real full purpose EMS/Standalone writes directly to the unit...

If you require an external emulator to do real time tuning you have made my point. This is a rom modification unit not a Standalone EMS

Explain the total costs for a full NisTune setup with an emulator vs. without it?

I think this information should be released to the whole forum not just me direct.

Is there any way to tune Nis-Tune in Real time without using a special emulator

The above explanations don't mention emulators

[sidewaysstarion]

Steve, If you open your eyes you will see Chris soldering in the INTERNAL emulator. which referred to as the NISTUNE board. this has been released to the forum as a whole, do us all a favor go ask your doctor for a rectal cranial extraction then read through this thread before you post next time, I'm pretty sure handinpants and hexdmy are tired of cleaning up your idiotic posts.

Also just an FYI only recently has HALTECH started doing 02 reference traget AFR, But you would know that because your an expert Haltech tuner

So do us all a favor and stick to your mail order powerfc base maps and leave the tuning to the REAL experts with REAL dynos.

[/]

[steve shadows]

Originally Posted by sidewaysstarion

Steve, If you open your eyes you will see Chris soldering in the INTERNAL emulator. which referred to as the NISTUNE board. this has been released to the forum as a whole, do us all a favor and pull your head out of your ass and read through this thread before you post next time, I'm pretty sure handinpants and hexdmy are tired of cleaning up your idiotic posts.

I understand this also but on Nis Tune's own site it suggests you use an external emulator board...

Also just an FYI only recently has HALTECH started doing 02 reference traget AFR, But you would know that because your an expert Haltech tuner

Yes I know this and I suggest everyone DOES NOT USE THIS. The reason why haltech added this feature is purely for marketing against the AEM unit. The platinum and brand new Haltech units have a much more advanced and higher sample rate version of this option which is OK but I still recommend against it. You must do real steady state dyno tuning to watch tractive effort and get the best possible cylinder pressure

So do us all a favor and stick to your mail order powerfc base maps and leave the tuning to the REAL experts with REAL dynos.

The base map service is to help others who do not have good or local dyno shops available, most of my business is Dyno tuning? Have you seen my site? Not exactly sure what you are talking about on this comment...

[/]

Again, the license issue is what holds back many of my customers who have mulitple computers that they would like to use with their unit from going with Nis-tune. I believe this software should be given to any paying customer for free with much more than limiting to only 3 computers.

On the issue of the emulator ON-BOARD, I would like someone to show the real time tuning in steady state in a video if possible...

If I can unlock the software for my customers car I will happily post a video of me doing it on my dyno once I can get access to that portion of the unit.

[sidewaysstarion]

Originally Posted by steve shadows

Again, the license issue is what holds back many of my customers who have mulitple computers that they would like to use with their unit from going with Nis-tune. I believe this software should be given to any paying customer for free with much more than limiting to only 3 computers.

On the issue of the emulator ON-BOARD, I would like someone to show the real time tuning in steady state in a video if possible...

If I can unlock the software for my customers car I will happily post a video of me doing it on my dyno once I can get access to that portion of the unit.

Well maybe there is a reason why they sell a dealers license? so maybe people can tune Multiple ecus?

Also they do give a FREE version to the PAYING customers, as crazy as it sounds its true. Hexdmy paid for a dealers license and they gave him a FREE unlimited version of the software.

The reason why they sell the software is because you can use it with hardware other than their own. so if you wanted you could use a third party external emulator to build a map and then burn it to a chip and sell it. but you could also buy the nistune board which has an on board eeprom and an on board emulator which supports live tuning and live map tracing, all done through the stock consult connector.

why would someone bring their car to you to tune their nistune if you haven't even read the documentation? Please do you homework before someone winds up having to rebuild a motor.

ALL OF THE INFORMATION I HAVE POSTED WAS PROVIDED IN THE NISTUNE DOCUMENTATION THAT IS AVAILABLE ON THEIR WEBSITE FOR FREE!!!

Incase you can't use google, here is a link http://www.nistune.com/documentation.html personally Steve for you I would start with http://www.plmsdevelopments.com/file...ing_basics.pdf

[4x4le]

Originally Posted by steve shadows

Again, the license issue is what holds back many of my customers who have mulitple computers that they would like to use with their unit from going with Nis-tune. I believe this software should be given to any paying customer for free with much more than limiting to only 3 computers.

On the issue of the emulator ON-BOARD, I would like someone to show the real time tuning in steady state in a video if possible...

If I can unlock the software for my customers car I will happily post a video of me doing it on my dyno once I can get access to that portion of the unit.

I talked on the phone with this guy, I have no real clue what is going on but there is something screwy going on. His software license was not bought new, but was tried to have been transfered and they are not supposed to be transfered so that may have been picked up on, however I dont think they have safeguards against that.... Somewhat stumpped. I can assure you I have never had a customer that bought the software and board and had It installed by us have never had an issue like this.

And there is no need for a emmulator with nistune, if there is a nistune board, not a cheap chipped daughter board but an actual type 1-3 board there is no need for a emmulator, just a usb or consult cable. The tuning can be done in real time too, live, the changes are made instantly, the car dont have to be shut off, the burn button does not need to be pressed, the results are instant. You can see the vid that hand in pants posted (the one that said not to be confused with any other steve lol) the fuel map with map trace happening. That is showing the puslewidth of the injectors and what part the ecu is pulling from, and you can click on any of them and make a change instantly at any time.

Now if your in streaming mode which makes the program act allot faster the tuning is a little less real time if you will but that is a different discussion.

Either way, I still think you shouldn't (and no one should) so much as think about touching a nistune setup until they have read all the documentation that is available.
Steve, that could have saved one of your customers 3 hours of dyno time couldnt it have?

[4x4le]

I vote lets keep the thread clean, it may take a while but he will be educated If I can help it.

Now I did have someone call me that was having all sorts of wierd problems but he purchased the ecu and software (which isnt supposed to be transfered) from someone other than a nistune shop. Its hard to figure out what all is going on with that situation but that is the one and only time Steve Shadows had a chance to mess with Nistune. No wonder he hates it.

[GSXRJJordan]

Live tuning is not the same as REAL TIME. Emulation + being able to write the ROM is not the same as the ECU making changes while loaded on the dyno. That's Steve's beef, among other things it seems.

I agree that Nistune has to present a significant price/performance advantage to make it preferable to the other "big names" in the industry.

I'm watching to see how this sorts itself out.

[DALAZ_68]

i see it as this, a PFC unit for a CA18 cost pretty much double for me then u SR Rb gents...and thats with out controller usually, im not going for huge numbers...300 and im good, Nistune will get me where i need to be and itll be safer then a chip...

when i get my car done ill see war happens wen it happens

[4x4le]

Newest info from Matt@nistune.

The error message the user had (that steve shadows was going to tune the car for and had trouble with) has opened too many address files looking around at stuff, or its possible that the person he bought the license from has done this. Since this is a single user license and the software detected that it was being used commercially (or so it seemed) it had shut itself down.

Matt gave me instructions for me to pass on to the current license holder in order to make the program work correctly once again.

[steve shadows]

Originally Posted by GSXRJJordan

Live tuning is not the same as REAL TIME. Emulation + being able to write the ROM is not the same as the ECU making changes while loaded on the dyno. That's Steve's beef, among other things it seems.

I agree that Nistune has to present a significant price/performance advantage to make it preferable to the other "big names" in the industry.

I'm watching to see how this sorts itself out.

Yes it is, but I will report back once I use this unit again and tell you guys if it actually does allow real time tuning in the sense of the way that Haltech does.

The main beef I have, however, is that there is not a fully downloadable and openly accessible software for the DIY'er or customer...

The fact that they sell licenses just does not line up with all other main stream class A standalone systems. I don't really see how keeping it this way makes it any easier on the community or the customers either...

Originally Posted by 4x4le

Newest info from Matt@nistune.

The error message the user had (that steve shadows was going to tune the car for and had trouble with) has opened too many address files looking around at stuff, or its possible that the person he bought the license from has done this. Since this is a single user license and the software detected that it was being used commercially (or so it seemed) it had shut itself down.

Matt gave me instructions for me to pass on to the current license holder in order to make the program work correctly once again.

Excellent, thank you.

I will report back into this thread with a full review of the unit once I get to really try Real Time steady state tuning with it.

[4x4le]

This is an email sent to me to post from Matt Brown at NIStune.
Its lengthy, but if you dont care to read it you have no business even participating in this thread.

============================================
Hi Brandon

If you want to post for me...

Hey guys, Matt here from Nistune. I've just been alerted of this thread so
thought I'd add my bit....

1. The unit will not allow Real Time tuning as is

yes it will. it allows changes to the ECU whilst the engine is running from
it. With both emualtors and our boards. If Nistune tells you that you have
exceeded your license conditions then it will only allow offline tuning (see
next)

2. The unit will not allow you to actually tune the map if you
install the software more than 3 times. That means if you buy this product
and you have a systems crash and you own more than three computers which
many now do you are totally SOL.

where did you get this information from? I should clarify from our official
source of information (Nistune FAQ)
"5. Individual License and Tuners License Difference
We have been working with and received quite a number of queries and
requests from workshops with what NIStune will cost for the workshop.
NIStune has now been split into two users licenses.
(a) Individual users license
- Intended for those who wish to purchase one or few boards, only needing
address files for those boards for personal interest
- Limited to three address files, and five differerent ECU IDs that can be
tuned in real-time
(b) Tuners license
- Intended for those in the business of tuning. ie primarily workshops.
Those who wish to either run NIStune with emluators and daughterboards, or
wish to tune using our RealTime boards
- Provided with complete set of Nissan address files with maptracing
information
- Unlimited emulator and boards supported
- Discount prices on boards, and further discount on quantity boards
ordered. "
As per our license agreement which you clicked when installing - you may
install on mulitple computers which are owned by you. You also have the
ability for unlimited realtime tuning on upto 5 vehicles (determined by ECU
ID). You may reset this by uninstalling/reinstalling the software if need
be. What you have written is basically misleading/incorrect

3. The unit does not allow you to adjust while the car is running.
You have to Image the map and then "burn" it to the eprom, this is not a
standalone unit. This is the definition of a reprogrammable chip just as I
thought.

Plain wrong. The boards have EEPROM backed SRAM. All changes made are stored
to SRAM when a cell is altered and take effect immediately. When you wish to
keep those changes the burn button stores from SRAM to EEPROM on the chip
whilst the car is running. It is not FLASH memory like Bikirom which is only
'uploadable' after 20 seconds of FLASH block erasure and reprogram.
Emulators are battery backed SRAM and have the same effect except they keep
their changes all the time but are not a permanent fixture to the ECU.

4. The layout of and the ergonomics of the maps and adjustments are
very generic or confusing and not very clear compared to FC Data logit for
Power FC or Haltech Software. There is much more room for improvement. Some
of the descriptions and adjustments do not even use the standard Vocabulary
that most EFI universities or engineering schools refer to in some
cases

We have a lot of positive tuner feedback expressing how easy the system is
to use. The design of the application was based from other various tuning
programs including TunerPro, Chrome, Hondata etc.
The vocabulary is based from what JECS/Nissan engineers called all the
parameters in the ECU (See Nissan patents for more details). Some of these
definitions (for example TTP could be broken down into plainer english).
Care to elaborate on non-standard and what it should be? We take all
comments on board for improvement of the software to make it easy to use.

However once it is all said and done the cost of the unit is almost
as much as a Power FC, which you CAN tune in read time using fc logit or the
provided software, you can map trace IN REAL TIME and you do not need to use
an outside EMULATOR or additional ghost unit to tune the car in real time.

Nistune single users license + Type 4 board + consult cable = $535AUD
~$430USD.
You can realtime tune, log and maptrace simulatenously with that setup and
guess what, no emulator is required. btw Where can you buy a brand new
PowerFC for that price??? Oh you cant. They dont sell them brand new any
more. What about second hand? I see an ER34 Power FC going on ebay for $2K
AUD... and the average price for a R33 Power FC starts around $1200AUD. Best
prices I have seen are about $800AUD

you can adjust a cell and hit "write all" over and over while
running and on the dyno for the same effect...

Thats what we do also when you have realtime tuning available

If someone could address the emulator and software license issue I
still believe this package is overpriced by about 100-150 dollars just
purely on the fact you have to image the rom and are not actually
re-programming the actual computer.

Our software license is an unlimited time license which is available in two
types, individual and tuners. If you look at FLASH based tuning systems for
Suburu, EVOs etc they charge more than what we charge for a tuners license
for each car reflashed!!
What you see with most 'free' aftermarket software is that they are
specifically designed for one purpose - and that is to run with the ECU that
it supports. In case you didnt realise, the cost of the support and upgrades
is factored into the price of the aftermarket ECU when you purchase it. We
would have sold our boards with the software 'free' and bundled but then we
would still keep the same price as current for the board. We offer
flexibility to split the boards from the software so tuners can install
boards for customers and also to tune with third party products including
emulators and calumsult boards.
License costs covers my time with support each night (20-30 enquiries),
developing new features, bug fixes etc, equipment costs, business running
costs, liability insurance and legal costs (which are massive especially for
selling to the US market) and all profits are taxed at 30% before I even see
any of it a. Compared to most software applications, especially for
automotive - its priced quite reasonably.
Let me put in on another perspective. How much do tuners charge for a tune
which is just changes made to maps? How much money do you put on a tune you
have sold? How often do you sell that tune to others once you have spent the
time and money developing it? Its all time vs cost and software projects
take a long time (its been about 6 years since starting writing the
application). How pissed off would you be if people started taking your
tunes and selling them on ebay or distributing otherwise. Its all
intellectual property and time invested which is worth something in real
dollars.

I am rolling on the Dyno Dynamics watching tractive effort and I
need to raise or lower timing value in real time to see tractive effort go
up or down so I can tune in steady state...

You are making your timing changes on the timing maps and the igntiion
timing reported by consult changes whilst you are altering the map. its all
good you can do that with Nistune

Also explain the refresh rate of the "Target AFR" function...target AFR
mapping is notorious even on highly advanced quick refresh units like
Haltech to be AWEFUL

target AFR is updated within receipt of wideband data from the selected
wideband unit. you put in your required AFRs and then the fuel map will
increase/decrease. I estimate processing time about 30ms at worst. Its a
feature some users wanted and we are implementing and testing

His software license was not bought new, but was tried to have been
transfered and they are not supposed to be transfered so that may have been
picked up on, however I dont think they have safeguards against that....
Somewhat stumpped

hmmmm... sounds like the license was for a board and you are trying to use
it on an emulator. Licenses can only be resold with my permission (see
license agreement doc) and we enable the license conditions depending on
what gets ordered. Sorry but you did not purchase an emulator license. See
the Help-About for the type of license you have

Live tuning is not the same as REAL TIME. Emulation + being able to write
the ROM is not the same as the ECU making changes while loaded on the dyno.
That's Steve's beef, among other things it seems.

The live tuning isnt avaialble with the license he is using which is why
this is the problem to begin with. The reason for the restriction is so
people dont abuse the individual licenses

How could it have saved him any time if the license would not allow us
access?

where did you get your license? what did you specify when you ordered your
license? most licences out there are not for realtime tuning with
emulators....

How will Nis-Tune as a company address re-selling, as is extremely common in
the Nissan community....you can just look to the massive for sale section on
Zilvia for example to know how common and popular this is in the Nissan
community.

We do it already. We transfer license keys and blacklist old ones.

The main beef I have, however, is that there is not a fully
downloadable and openly accessible software for the DIY'er or
customer...

Does it need to be? We have a trial run available. for experimenting. Most
fully downloadable software for vehicles is no good without the ECU
connected anyway


Regards
Matt Brown
NIStune Developments
www.nistune.com

[GSXRJJordan]

Brandon, thanks for getting Matt's input back to us! Sounds like Steve had a bad license/unit, and that the Nistune really does offer us the best value. The "Target AFR" function with a quick wideband sounds like a great option for 'basemaps' for people that can't make it directly to a dyno ~ I agree that the feature is a plus, even if the most advanced tuners wouldn't use it.

To clarify - the Type 4 board will work on a ECR33 ECU? Would it be any easier/better if I used a VG30DE VVT (like the Maxima discussed earlier in this thread) ECU?

[4x4le]

Yea, sorry. No support for the r33 for some reason....... Kinda skipped that one and I dont know why. You can run a maxima ecu like you mentioned or a z32 ecu. We can cut you a deal on a type 2 board if you go with a z32 ecu. We are figuring out the price and we are going to offer a "hook up" on the type 2 boards in the preme section soon to come.

[handinpants]

i'd be more than willing to take someone for a ride in my car to see how it works...... hopefully someone out there can show me how to ride my motorcycle on the freeway

[gmember240]

Going tommorow to local race shop to chat about getting my s14 nistuned there. They just got their dealers license and i would be the first. I have a pretty basic setup and I'm kind of curious if there's anything I need to get before I can get it Nistuned. Here's my setup:

95 240sx KA24DET
SR T25 turbo
SR 370cc injectors
N60 Maf
ebay FMIC
Megan Racing 3" straightpipe exhaust
Megan Racing 3" downpipe
Megan Racing turbo elbow
stock turbo 7psi wastegate
Greddy type rs BOV
Blow Through Setup

I'm extremely new to tuning and basically what I'm asking is do I have all the required parts to get the car Nistuned? I don't want to get an ECU tune and I like what I've heard about Nistune. Thanks

[GSXRJJordan]

Originally Posted by 4x4le

Yea, sorry. No support for the r33 for some reason....... Kinda skipped that one and I dont know why. You can run a maxima ecu like you mentioned or a z32 ecu. We can cut you a deal on a type 2 board if you go with a z32 ecu. We are figuring out the price and we are going to offer a "hook up" on the type 2 boards in the preme section soon to come.

Cool, I'll keep an eye out for that. I'd love to be one of the first with this setup in the states, and put it against other similar RB25 setups out there.

Originally Posted by handinpants

i'd be more than willing to take someone for a ride in my car to see how it works...... hopefully someone out there can show me how to ride my motorcycle on the freeway

Haha, replied to your PM - I'm down to show you how to ride it on one wheel or two on the freeway

[steve shadows]

Originally Posted by 4x4le

This is an email sent to me to post from Matt Brown at NIStune.
Its lengthy, but if you dont care to read it you have no business even participating in this thread.

============================================
Hi Brandon

If you want to post for me...

Hey guys, Matt here from Nistune. I've just been alerted of this thread so
thought I'd add my bit....

yes it will. it allows changes to the ECU whilst the engine is running from
it. With both emualtors and our boards. If Nistune tells you that you have
exceeded your license conditions then it will only allow offline tuning (see
next)

where did you get this information from? I should clarify from our official
source of information (Nistune FAQ)
"5. Individual License and Tuners License Difference
We have been working with and received quite a number of queries and
requests from workshops with what NIStune will cost for the workshop.
NIStune has now been split into two users licenses.
(a) Individual users license
- Intended for those who wish to purchase one or few boards, only needing
address files for those boards for personal interest
- Limited to three address files, and five differerent ECU IDs that can be
tuned in real-time
(b) Tuners license
- Intended for those in the business of tuning. ie primarily workshops.
Those who wish to either run NIStune with emluators and daughterboards, or
wish to tune using our RealTime boards
- Provided with complete set of Nissan address files with maptracing
information
- Unlimited emulator and boards supported
- Discount prices on boards, and further discount on quantity boards
ordered. "
As per our license agreement which you clicked when installing - you may
install on mulitple computers which are owned by you. You also have the
ability for unlimited realtime tuning on upto 5 vehicles (determined by ECU
ID). You may reset this by uninstalling/reinstalling the software if need
be. What you have written is basically misleading/incorrect
Plain wrong. The boards have EEPROM backed SRAM. All changes made are stored
to SRAM when a cell is altered and take effect immediately. When you wish to
keep those changes the burn button stores from SRAM to EEPROM on the chip
whilst the car is running. It is not FLASH memory like Bikirom which is only
'uploadable' after 20 seconds of FLASH block erasure and reprogram.
Emulators are battery backed SRAM and have the same effect except they keep
their changes all the time but are not a permanent fixture to the ECU.

We have a lot of positive tuner feedback expressing how easy the system is
to use. The design of the application was based from other various tuning
programs including TunerPro, Chrome, Hondata etc.
The vocabulary is based from what JECS/Nissan engineers called all the
parameters in the ECU (See Nissan patents for more details). Some of these
definitions (for example TTP could be broken down into plainer english).
Care to elaborate on non-standard and what it should be? We take all
comments on board for improvement of the software to make it easy to use.
Nistune single users license + Type 4 board + consult cable = $535AUD
~$430USD.
You can realtime tune, log and maptrace simulatenously with that setup and
guess what, no emulator is required. btw Where can you buy a brand new
PowerFC for that price??? Oh you cant. They dont sell them brand new any
more. What about second hand? I see an ER34 Power FC going on ebay for $2K
AUD... and the average price for a R33 Power FC starts around $1200AUD. Best
prices I have seen are about $800AUD

Again we are talking about what the common market price is in the United States in US dollars for comparable or single solution units...not AUD but I understand what you are trying to suggest...

Thats what we do also when you have realtime tuning available
Our software license is an unlimited time license which is available in two
types, individual and tuners. If you look at FLASH based tuning systems for
Suburu, EVOs etc they charge more than what we charge for a tuners license
for each car reflashed!!

We are not talking about systems for EVOS and Subarus, we are directly addressing these issues from the perspective of Nissan tuners and nissan customers....Re-Flashing an ecu everytime they get adjusted in this case you are not talking about Full Reprogrammable EMS...you are talking about a different type of system. If you are going to market your unit against the Full Reprogrammable EMS and Standalone units then you shoudl address the issues with them as the competition not deflect to another manufacturers common market ROM flash issue.

What you see with most 'free' aftermarket software is that they are
specifically designed for one purpose - and that is to run with the ECU that
it supports. In case you didnt realise, the cost of the support and upgrades
is factored into the price of the aftermarket ECU when you purchase it.

Exactly...so why do you not invest your costs into your hardware? This way your software is available to all tuners, customers and shops who would like to sell your system and EVEN possibly distribute it? Instead you are creating a divide between preferred shops or customers who will invest in buying liscenes. This will also limit the amount of the market that your prodcut can be RE-SOLD into as well...

We
would have sold our boards with the software 'free' and bundled but then we
would still keep the same price as current for the board. We offer
flexibility to split the boards from the software so tuners can install
boards for customers and also to tune with third party products including
emulators and calumsult boards.
License costs covers my time with support each night (20-30 enquiries),
developing new features, bug fixes etc, equipment costs, business running
costs, liability insurance and legal costs (which are massive especially for
selling to the US market) and all profits are taxed at 30% before I even see
any of it a. Compared to most software applications, especially for
automotive - its priced quite reasonably.
Let me put in on another perspective. How much do tuners charge for a tune
which is just changes made to maps? How much money do you put on a tune you
have sold? How often do you sell that tune to others once you have spent the
time and money developing it? Its all time vs cost and software projects
take a long time (its been about 6 years since starting writing the
application). How pissed off would you be if people started taking your
tunes and selling them on ebay or distributing otherwise. Its all
intellectual property and time invested which is worth something in real
dollars.
You are making your timing changes on the timing maps and the igntiion
timing reported by consult changes whilst you are altering the map. its all
good you can do that with Nistune
target AFR is updated within receipt of wideband data from the selected
wideband unit. you put in your required AFRs and then the fuel map will
increase/decrease. I estimate processing time about 30ms at worst. Its a
feature some users wanted and we are implementing and testing
hmmmm... sounds like the license was for a board and you are trying to use
it on an emulator. Licenses can only be resold with my permission (see
license agreement doc) and we enable the license conditions depending on
what gets ordered. Sorry but you did not purchase an emulator license. See
the Help-About for the type of license you have
The live tuning isnt avaialble with the license he is using which is why
this is the problem to begin with. The reason for the restriction is so
people dont abuse the individual licenses
where did you get your license? what did you specify when you ordered your
license? most licences out there are not for realtime tuning with
emulators....

This was a customers license and he brought his lap top with the car for me to tune...however due to the limitation of licenses we cannot actually use his software - this must be because of the fact he purchased his unit from a private seller who already "used up" all of the available licenses...

We do it already. We transfer license keys and blacklist old ones.
Does it need to be? We have a trial run available. for experimenting. Most
fully downloadable software for vehicles is no good without the ECU
connected anyway

Yes, the software should be fully downloadable and the lisences should be offered at the time of re-selling...otherwise you are going to limit the the level the product can be consumed over time and the number of re-sales the product can effectively live on through...Unless of course you automatically offer a free-license to the next purchaser of the unit...


Regards
Matt Brown
NIStune Developments
www.nistune.com

I appreciate you addressing directly the questions I have regarding your unit

These issues with customers and re-sold ECMs which have the boards will continue to be issues as long as you plan on bundling the licenses as a main source of income / money making part of the system.

I think the best way for Nis-Tune to be competitve with full standalone ecus in teh United States market is to allow Customers unlimited uploads of software that allows access to emulator and tuning maps, but to limit the full Work Shop software to teh work shops.

If there are additional features and options that can be offered to workshops so be it but the individual customer should be able to have an easy to use software that does not require a special license just to use it to tune the Nis-Tune Hardware that he already paid for.

If you taking time out of your schedule to provide free support is costing you valuable time or money then you shoud supply a limited number of free support hours to customers and then charge for time afteer that.

There is no unspoken law that says an ECM or Standalone manufacturer has to provide free and unlimited service or that you have to make up this cost by imbedding it in charging extra to customers to access certain capabilties of the software by limiting licenses

[DALAZ_68]

Originally Posted by steve shadows

If you taking time out of your schedule to provide free support is costing you valuable time or money then you shoud supply a limited number of free support hours to customers and then charge for time afteer that.

There is no unspoken law that says an ECM or Standalone manufacturer has to provide free and unlimited service or that you have to make up this cost by imbedding it in charging extra to customers to access certain capabilties of the software by limiting licenses

true, but then he would be limiting his time to those who supported his product...he's offering more support to us, his costumers. mind you he's not a huge corporation like other companies, the fact that his work has spread as far as it has is without a doubt impressive...the fact that gives more time to his costumers than other tuners and parts suppliers,and he himself the developer answers the questions being asked is straight up honorable...

see if he were to limit his time, then someone elses argument would be why is he limiting his time...