General politics discussion. Keep it civil.

[brndck]

Originally Posted by mr.nismo.

I wish the dialogue to keep going. But it seems anyone who has any agreement with any policy that's right leaning are all being grouped in with racists and people like the fuck faces from last Wednesday.

meh, theres a huge separation between "i support limited govt and want financial conservatism" and "MAGA QANON STOP THE STEAL 8MOREYEARS".
If you endorse and support leaders who espouse racist agendas, its not surprising that you would get lumped in together. (not pointing at YOU particularly, just "you" in general)

Originally Posted by Future240

And here we have a major issue in todays politics. No one wants to talk about the issues on the left.

I got called a white supremacist on reddit for saying a white person donning dreads and painting their face to cosplay as a black character from a show they like is not the same thing as black face. I had to point out the fact I was black for them listen. Though several suggested I was a white guy posing as black.

Trans people are people. trans people should have rights. Yet the fringe left tries to convince us that men who trans into women are actual women instead of men who have transitioned into a faux woman.

Some of the left would have you believe all trump voters are racist.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ts/5312336002/

Are there racist trump voters? abso-fucking-lutely

Are all trump voter racist? abso-fucking-lutley not

This ignores that blacks and latinos both voted for trump too.

Stuff like this is why I do not subscribed to a single political ideology.

The fringe on both sides can get eat several dicks.

im fairly fringe and prefer a dick-free diet.

white person cosplaying a black character is absolutely not problematic in the same way as straight up blackface, but imo its could still be taken as offensive by many, or tasteless at best. Participate at your own risk, but dont be shocked when theres plenty of blowback.

the discussion around trans persons is simple. dont beat the shit out of them. dont assault or disparage them. dont try to deny them the rights and protections that the rest of us get. does it affect YOUR life in a negative way for someone else to live as a gender other than what they were assigned at birth?

in 2016 i would easily accept that not all trump supporters were racists.
in 2020 i would easily accept that MANY more trump supporters were racists. If you keep supporting/endorsing someone who espouses racist views, enacts racist policies, etc, don't be surprised if you get lumped in, even if you personally don't verbalize racist views. Plenty of Jews voted for hitler in 1935, not knowing what he would become.

https://sfi.usc.edu/video/manfred-st...s-voted-hitler

https://www.wilsonquarterly.com/quar...ed-for-hitler/

\/\/\/ this one is an opinion piece
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.pre...tler-1.5417967

[kingkilburn]

There's a old saying: You are the company you keep.

Don't be surprised when you neatly box yourself up and observers correctly label the box. We're all going to keep talking and at various points you're going to hear "that's that shit", and it's up to you to understand and keep it moving without trying to start a fight about it.

[mr.nismo.]

Originally Posted by Future240

And here we have a major issue in todays politics. No one wants to talk about the issues on the left.

I got called a white supremacist on reddit for saying a white person donning dreads and painting their face to cosplay as a black character from a show they like is not the same thing as black face. I had to point out the fact I was black for them listen. Though several suggested I was a white guy posing as black.

Trans people are people. trans people should have rights. Yet the fringe left tries to convince us that men who trans into women are actual women instead of men who have transitioned into a faux woman.

Some of the left would have you believe all trump voters are racist.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ts/5312336002/

Are there racist trump voters? abso-fucking-lutely

Are all trump voter racist? abso-fucking-lutley not

This ignores that blacks and latinos both voted for trump too.


Stuff like this is why I do not subscribed to a single political ideology.

The fringe on both sides can get eat several dicks.

And that's my problem with lumping in. There's no individualism. No one person is accountable, it's everyone that's right leaning is bad. Kingkilburn literally indirectly called me a racist in the last thread because I disagreed with him on some policies, even though I literally did nothing to him. When I hear "you can't converse with them", that's a double standard. Then conversations never happen. Goalposts get moved, etc.

Originally Posted by brndck

meh, theres a huge separation between "i support limited govt and want financial conservatism" and "MAGA QANON STOP THE STEAL 8MOREYEARS".
If you endorse and support leaders who espouse racist agendas, its not surprising that you would get lumped in together. (not pointing at YOU particularly, just "you" in general)

Isn't this slightly contradictory? I'm reading this as "yeah, there's individualism but it doesn't matter, all bad".

Originally Posted by brndck

im fairly fringe and prefer a dick-free diet.

This made me actually lol [emoji23]

Originally Posted by brndck

white person cosplaying a black character is absolutely not problematic in the same way as straight up blackface, but imo its could still be taken as offensive by many, or tasteless at best. Participate at your own risk, but dont be shocked when theres plenty of blowback.

While this is true, context should be what matters.

Originally Posted by brndck

the discussion around trans persons is simple. dont beat the shit out of them. dont assault or disparage them. dont try to deny them the rights and protections that the rest of us get. does it affect YOUR life in a negative way for someone else to live as a gender other than what they were assigned at birth?

The libertarian in me completely agrees with this. People should be able to do their thing and it's no one's business. But the fairness part of me (and may be what future is referring to) are biological women being forced to compete in sports to biological men, having to use the same restrooms, etc.

Originally Posted by brndck

in 2016 i would easily accept that not all trump supporters were racists.
in 2020 i would easily accept that MANY more trump supporters were racists. If you keep supporting/endorsing someone who espouses racist views, enacts racist policies, etc, don't be surprised if you get lumped in, even if you personally don't verbalize racist views. Plenty of Jews voted for hitler in 1935, not knowing what he would become.

https://sfi.usc.edu/video/manfred-st...s-voted-hitler

https://www.wilsonquarterly.com/quar...ed-for-hitler/

\/\/\/ this one is an opinion piece
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.pre...tler-1.5417967

And I have no disagreement that there are racists who voted for him. But there are others that are voting for policies rather than the person. If you write off everyone as a racist that can't be talked to, then it sounds like everything will always be divided in an ugly way.

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[mr.nismo.]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

There's a old saying: You are the company you keep.

Don't be surprised when you neatly box yourself up and observers correctly label the box. We're all going to keep talking and at various points you're going to hear "that's that shit", and it's up to you to understand and keep it moving without trying to start a fight about it.

Your personal opinion on how you categorize doesn't make you right. If you box me up as a racist, I'm definitely going to tell you something about it.

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[kingkilburn]

If you actively align yourself with ethno-nationalist christian dominionists I truly do not care what you actually believe. If you want an olive branch and dialog you must understand that your views and beliefs are a danger to me and people like me, as has been on full display over the last 5-6 years of right wing radicalization.

Frankly I don't care if I'm right or not. As long as I'm allowed to post here you're not going to act like American Conservatism has any legitimacy in 2021. After 4 years of Trump and McConnell you should be reconsidering your entire worldview.


To the mods
Have I been aggressive about this? Absolutely, but look at just the last week of what's happened. The majority of elected Republicans are STILL talking like something was taken from them, talking like they were cheated, talking like they are victims. I'm not inclined to concede anything.

[mr.nismo.]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

If you actively align yourself with ethno-nationalist christian dominionists I truly do not care what you actually believe. If you want an olive branch and dialog you must understand that your views and beliefs are a danger to me and people like me, as has been on full display over the last 5-6 years of right wing radicalization.

Frankly I don't care if I'm right or not. As long as I'm allowed to post here you're not going to act like American Conservatism has any legitimacy in 2021. After 4 years of Trump and McConnell you should be reconsidering your entire worldview.


To the mods
Have I been aggressive about this? Absolutely, but look at just the last week of what's happened. The majority of elected Republicans are STILL talking like something was taken from them, talking like they were cheated, talking like they are victims. I'm not inclined to concede anything.

So again, I'll point out that I am not a conservative.

You indirectly called me a racist and grouped me with zombie and rebuild because I disagreed about packing the supreme court and adding more people to congress so it's easier to push x,y,z polices through. You think that's okay?

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Fuck em? The majority of them will never change their mind. Even those with doubts are emotionally invested in their worldview. It reminds me of explaining institutional racism to people that don't want to hear it.

Are you going to hold up a mirror to yourself about this statement? Because as much i do not like the way you've talked to me/about me, I've been completely cordial and tried having normal debate with you. That being said, Im not going to beg for conversation. I'm merely trying to the thing that should be able to happen, which is where you said "fuck em". But, if you're so predisposed that I'm a racist and that I'm a "danger" to you, I don't know what to tell you.

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[Future240]

Originally Posted by brndck

im fairly fringe and prefer a dick-free diet.

Honestly you do not seem fringe to me. You definitely left but not like white people can't eat mexican food left.

Originally Posted by mr.nismo.

The libertarian in me completely agrees with this. People should be able to do their thing and it's no one's business. But the fairness part of me (and may be what future is referring to) are biological women being forced to compete in sports to biological men, having to use the same restrooms, etc.




And I have no disagreement that there are racists who voted for him. But there are others that are voting for policies rather than the person. If you write off everyone as a racist that can't be talked to, then it sounds like everything will always be divided in an ugly way.

Sent from my Note 20 Ultra using Tapatalk

Right. The trans movement is bumping dick first into the women's movement. So much so the trans have come up with an acronym Terf which stands for Trans exclusive radical feminist. Despite the fact it is a issue which not even .5% of the population is directly affected by.

I believe you cannot encroach on the freedoms of the majority, women, to please an ultra minority. At the same time they cannot be treated like second class citizens. It is a fine line.

And on trump voters do remember a lot of them voted for him simply because he was the republican candidate and they tow the line for their party.

Pretty much goes like this. Not all trump voters are white racists, but all white racists are trump voters.

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

If you actively align yourself with ethno-nationalist christian dominionists I truly do not care what you actually believe. If you want an olive branch and dialog you must understand that your views and beliefs are a danger to me and people like me, as has been on full display over the last 5-6 years of right wing radicalization.

Frankly I don't care if I'm right or not. As long as I'm allowed to post here you're not going to act like American Conservatism has any legitimacy in 2021. After 4 years of Trump and McConnell you should be reconsidering your entire worldview.


To the mods
Have I been aggressive about this? Absolutely, but look at just the last week of what's happened. The majority of elected Republicans are STILL talking like something was taken from them, talking like they were cheated, talking like they are victims. I'm not inclined to concede anything.

I get this. Align yourself with dickheads, be looked at as a dickhead. However consider this. Today's republicans have little to do with real american conservatism. Hell a lot of repubs now called themselves Trumplicans.

Trump brought out some of the worst in people we have seen.

The gop is as needs to die a swift death in its place rises a real conservative party. One that will work with the dems to bring balance to the nation.

Neither the left or the right has all the answers. However between the two of them is enough to make this country truly great.

We need revamp the prision system, the healthcare system, the education system, the court and police system as a start.

Will Biden do any of it is the question of the day.

[SimpleS14]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

In other news, Pompeo says Cuba is funding terrorism in the western hemisphere and Al Qaeda is operating out of Iran. The desperation is palpable.

IMO, these policy moves were done to hamstring the Biden administration. With Cuba, it's probably geared towards hurting diplomatic relations and versing policy executed by the Obama administration. As for Iran, that could impact Biden's goal of re-entering the nuclear deal.

The Biden administration can certainly reverse these policies moves, but I also think such moves will give more fodder for some Republicans and conservative media outlets.

[deolio]

Originally Posted by Future240

We need revamp the prision system, the healthcare system, the education system, the court and police system as a start.

Will Biden do any of it is the question of the day.

The answer is no because prison makes money, healthcare makes money, shit education makes people easier to manipulate and drain money from, and police reform would take actual work.

You?d need to push through a lot of ?socialist? legislation and make major societal changes to see any real progress on those fronts. Abolish private prisons. Adopt FULLY universal healthcare. Pay teachers a lot more. Increase IA budget, get rid of qualified immunity, and actually hold cops accountable.

I suppose it could be doable since it?s an all Dem party on capital hill, but they?d have to actually want to do it, which I don?t think they do...

[kingkilburn]

Be the change, mr nismo. Put down old talking points/paradigms and be constructive. I'm moving on from the topic like I want America to move on from Republicanism.


On Pompeo
I never understand Congress going along with executive branch policy swinging back and forth with changing presidents. They, as a collective body, should be setting policy that guides us at home and our diplomats abroad. Pompeo should have to provide evidence to various Congressional committees to designate foreign states as criminal or terrorist. Congress needs to take back its role from the presidency regardless of political party.

[brndck]

Originally Posted by deolio

The answer is no because prison makes money, healthcare makes money, shit education makes people easier to manipulate and drain money from, and police reform would take actual work.

You?d need to push through a lot of ?socialist? legislation and make major societal changes to see any real progress on those fronts. Abolish private prisons. Adopt FULLY universal healthcare. Pay teachers a lot more. Increase IA budget, get rid of qualified immunity, and actually hold cops accountable.

I suppose it could be doable since it?s an all Dem party on capital hill, but they?d have to actually want to do it, which I don?t think they do...

what about my fucking PONIES???
https://media.giphy.com/media/RJJzGA...Pbv/source.mov

[dizzariot]

Originally Posted by Future240

Are there racist trump voters? abso-fucking-lutely

Are all trump voter racist? abso-fucking-lutley not

This ignores that blacks and latinos both voted for trump too.


Stuff like this is why I do not subscribed to a single political ideology.

The fringe on both sides can get eat several dicks.

This is simply put, yet eloquent lol.

Originally Posted by brndck

im fairly fringe and prefer a dick-free diet.

The lie detector test proved that was a LIE.

Originally Posted by mr.nismo.

I wish the dialogue to keep going. But it seems anyone who has any agreement with any policy that's right leaning are all being grouped in with racists and people like the fuck faces from last Wednesday.

Yeah and that's the problem. It's a double standard. It seems like this isn't going to be the thread to break any new ground on how lop-sided the accusatory language is but whatever.

[kingkilburn]

https://apnews.com/article/biden-vir...&utm_medium=AP

Am... Am I riddin with Biden? Obvious policy seems downright heroic after 4 years of that.

[deolio]

Originally Posted by brndck

what about my fucking PONIES???
https://media.giphy.com/media/RJJzGA...Pbv/source.mov

Ponies are a more likely outcome than any real change

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

https://apnews.com/article/biden-vir...&utm_medium=AP

Am... Am I riddin with Biden? Obvious policy seems downright heroic after 4 years of that.

Oh look, a president actually laying out a plan to deal with the pandemic. It's almost as if he's actually qualified for the job. It's a god damn miracle!

[mr.nismo.]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Be the change, mr nismo. Put down old talking points/paradigms and be constructive. I'm moving on from the topic like I want America to move on from Republicanism.

You cannot be serious about everything you've said at me, then tell me to be the change? What a joke. You ignored everything I said as usual....

Originally Posted by dizzariot

Yeah and that's the problem. It's a double standard. It seems like this isn't going to be the thread to break any new ground on how lop-sided the accusatory language is but whatever.

Case and point above, as he gets to call me a racist and just roll with it like it's nothing.



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[kingkilburn]

I didn't call you racist. I demonstrated that you've thrown yourself in with devout racists. Does that hurt your feelings? Good. Now consider whose policy and rhetoric you say you agree with and maybe uh don't anymore.

The rest of you see this as a double standard because I'm tired of talking about it. You want to see good conservatives where I see people I wish weren't conservative. Every single time I have a face to face conversation with a republican it turns out they aren't nearly as conservative as they think. Once you talk then off the rhetoric and start talking historical fact and what policies actually mean suddenly goddam everyone is a fucking progressive that wants to be left alone. But is it my job to hold everyone's hand to get there? I'm fucking tired.

[mr.nismo.]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

I didn't call you racist. I demonstrated that you've thrown yourself in with devout racists. Does that hurt your feelings? Good. Now consider whose policy and rhetoric you say you agree with and maybe uh don't anymore.

The rest of you see this as a double standard because I'm tired of talking about it. You want to see good conservatives where I see people I wish weren't conservative. Every single time I have a face to face conversation with a republican it turns out they aren't nearly as conservative as they think. Once you talk then off the rhetoric and start talking historical fact and what policies actually mean suddenly goddam everyone is a fucking progressive that wants to be left alone. But is it my job to hold everyone's hand to get there? I'm fucking tired.

This was literally your reply to me disagreeing about packing the supreme court and congress.

So yes, you actually did indirectly call me a racist, and a couple posts later grouped me in with zombie and rebuild who were literally provoking you. Hurt my feelings? You can't say that shit and expect them to not tell you something. It's not all or nothing. Or if you do believe that, I'm guessing you support the rioters and looters from the BLM protestst. You know, ones who burned people's shit to the ground (a lot of minority owned to add). The "mostly peaceful" onces as a reporter is standing in front of a large structure fire. Since that's how you view everything? Mind me, I don't assume you're okay with that, as everyone should be treated as an individual. But hey if that's how you see yourself, so be it.


Again to add, I'm not a conservative...



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[dizzariot]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

1.) I didn't call you racist. I demonstrated that you've thrown yourself in with devout racists. Does that hurt your feelings? Good. Now consider whose policy and rhetoric you say you agree with and maybe uh don't anymore.

The rest of you see this as a double standard because I'm tired of talking about it. 2.) You want to see good conservatives where I see people I wish weren't conservative. Every single time I have a face to face conversation with a republican it turns out they aren't nearly as conservative as they think. Once you talk then off the rhetoric and start talking historical fact and what policies actually mean suddenly goddam everyone is a fucking progressive that wants to be left alone. 3.)But is it my job to hold everyone's hand to get there? I'm fucking tired.

1.) So if racists support big government and someone on this forum does as well, they are racist by association? Where are the degrees to this? He has stated multiple times that there are PARTS he agrees with and parts he disagrees with.

2.) This is okay for you but not for the people you are so against? Because you perceive you are on the side of 'righteousness'? How about this: you just want to see villains to justify you stooping to their level. Case-in-point with mr.nismo. You attack him, he starts to defend himself, and because he doesn't take it he's the enemy. It's like you're hunting for a reason to treat him like two previously banned forum members because you need a punching bag. C'mon, man...

3.) No, it isn't, and yes it's tiring...but isn't fighting the good fight (in this case trying to reach others with words) worth the utopia we all want one day? I also don't believe you do this because you seem just as intolerant as the people you despise so much.

Dude you are espousing looking in the mirror and it's like you've never seen one.

I'm sorry man but you're like a movie protagonist that's hunting a villain down because he does bad things. Once you get him right where you want him, you proceed to do the things you abhor so much to him because it's okay for you and not for him...but you're the protagonist, right? The crowd still cheers even when you perpetrate the very same shit you don't like upon the villain in your story?

If you are a paragon that wrongdoes a wrongdoer for wrongdoing, you are now a wrongdoer. An eye for an eye makes the world blind. I ran out of metaphors.

[kingkilburn]

Oh fuck off already. Go start a dogpile on Kilburn thread or something. You can make up whatever words and motivation makes you feel warm and fuzzy about yourselves.

I'll be in here talking about policy and current events.

[FaLKoN240]

No one is dog-piling on you, you're making yourself the target of the conversation by not listening to anything they're saying.

What you're doing is very similar to them moving the flag posts and what about-ism we were fighting against the other guys about for so long.

[kingkilburn]

What the fuck are you even talking about? This is stupid. You guys are spending days thinking about me while Biden releases an actual covid19 plan. Might as well lock this one too if no one intends to talk about anything but me.

[KA24DESOneThree]

I got a text last night from an engine supplier of mine.

It appears to be QAnon bullshit, and its gist is that Trump allowed the Democrats to elect themselves to positions of power in USA INC, but Trump already signed the papers to make us the United States Republic. There will be an election of the president within 180 days of Jan 8 and on Jan 20th, all Democratic offices are defunct and the new US Republic will be debt free.

That is batshit, my dudes. People actually believe this, and not an insignificant amount of people.

[SimpleS14]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

That is batshit, my dudes. People actually believe this, and not an insignificant amount of people.

It's really going to be a significant challenge for this country in the years ahead when you have such a large populace in denialism.

IMO, the Biden administration should not give any of these conspiracies any oxygen and just follow through with their agenda as much as possible.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by SimpleS14

IMO, the Biden administration should not give any of these conspiracies any oxygen and just follow through with their agenda as much as possible.

True as this may so be, the people who peddle this shit are adept at sucking all the air out of a room.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Further research shows that QAnon followers also believe that there will be mass executions.

If there are tens of thousands of Americans who are okay with martial law and mass executions, what the holy fuck does that say about us as a society?

[Future240]

A right wing conspiracist lives with me.

I've heard it all.

Trump is going to declare marshall law, the vaccine is just a ploy to turn black kids gay. The dr's are killing patients claiming covid to get money. Masks make your body weaker since you breath in carbon dioxide instead of oxygen.

[Antihero983]

Originally Posted by Future240

A right wing conspiracist lives with me.

I've heard it all.

Trump is going to declare marshall law, the vaccine is just a ploy to turn black kids gay. The dr's are killing patients claiming covid to get money. Masks make your body weaker since you breath in carbon dioxide instead of oxygen.

I've also heard that Obama knew in 2014 that this was all gonna happen so the Dems would be able to win, and that wearing a mask gives you cancer. Nevermind all the tinfoil shit I hear from my redneck coworkers.

I just want the inauguration done with already so I don't have to hear about it anymore.

[brndck]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/97/f6...082ce5691c.jpg

[Future240]

Originally Posted by Antihero983

I just want the inauguration done with already so I don't have to hear about it anymore.

Oh contraire

It is going to get worst. Now they will have a full for year to say how Biden's actions are going to [insert radical nonsense].

[KA24DESOneThree]

Originally Posted by Antihero983

I just want the inauguration done with already so I don't have to hear about it anymore.

This is not going away until there are a Republican-majority House and Senate with a Republican in the WH. The myth that the election was stolen won't stop and will likely be amplified with every "socialist" policy enacted under Biden's term.

Seriously. This is our lives now, with consistent and constant conspiracy theories being bandied about like we're truly idiotic.

Re: gay frogs (not really gay but sex-changed and hermaphroditic and I understand the context of the picture had nothing to do with starting a conversation on atrazine) and atrazine- that's what happens when industrialized farming is subsidized and championed. Yield per acre goes down, yield per year goes down, petroleum products used per acre go up, pesticide usage goes up without long-term studies on its environmental effects. Atrazine's been banned in the EU since 2004 but remains present in the soil more than 15 years after its last use.