Noob post - SR vs RB

[Casperjay]

i will add my 2 cents since i have owned both shitty sr20's and rb20's..

both engines are unreliable as hell unless they are freshly rebuilt. even then ive seen brand new sr20's blow up doing a very soft pull down the road. the most fun of the 2 was an rb20, even though it also is horribly unreliable, it sounded like angels mating. and it had awesome torque when it wasnt blowing turbo seals and shit. if you wanna waste your money on one of these to id pick an rb and at least have some sort of enjoyment before it pops

[guitaraholic]

Originally Posted by Casperjay

i will add my 2 cents since i have owned both shitty sr20's and rb20's..

both engines are unreliable as hell unless they are freshly rebuilt. even then ive seen brand new sr20's blow up doing a very soft pull down the road. the most fun of the 2 was an rb20, even though it also is horribly unreliable, it sounded like angels mating. and it had awesome torque when it wasnt blowing turbo seals and shit. if you wanna waste your money on one of these to id pick an rb and at least have some sort of enjoyment before it pops

If the engine has been taken care of before you get it (that's what's key), then these engines are about as reliable as any other engine (at least the SR for sure).

I've put over 100k miles on my SR (so figure 130k-150k total) yes I got it used, and figured if it blew I would rebuild it, but I have yet to have any problems with the engine. For years I have been running it with the stock gt2560r with about 13-14lbs of boost, and I've just now recently stepped it up to a gt2860r, and might upgrade it to the gtx2867 at the end of the year.

- Engine doesn't use a drop of oil
- I get 29 mpg on the highway
- idles nice, runs smooth, starts every time


The only issues I've ever had, I caused myself (boost leak, manifold came loose when I replaced turbo, and car ran HORRIBLE, when I replaced the spark plugs when the coil pack bolt broke before I could get a replacement, oh and a "tiny" bit of moisture gets on the coil pack, and it's misfire city)

So it has been a learning experience, but everything else has been solid. In fact, the only thing I've had to replace that wasn't your normal maintenance was the timing chain tensioner, and I replaced the timing chain while I was at it.

I think the SR's get a reputation for being unreliable is a two fold cause.

1. Yes, the part I "kind" of agree with you is, you don't know what you are getting. You are hoping that the engine was taken care of before you get it. The first thing I did was look at the spark plugs, and see if they were either new (meaning replaced and then I would have wondered for what reason) or if they had signs of detonation. They were brown and a little worn, as they should be, no white spots, then a compression test. The rest you'll see if you have any problems in the first few thousand miles (e.g. oil leaks, bad bearings,,ect ect) but if the engine was taken care of, it's just as reliable as anything else

2. This is the BIG one. You got people that want a bazzillion horsepower, and think they can squeeze it out of a 2.0L engine without any ill effects. For the longest time I've been running close to 270whp (so at least 300 FW) and that is 50% more than what the engine was designed for.

You have people that are cranking the boost with stock injectors, stock fuel pump, or worse trying to ghetto rig their way into more horsepower by "fooling" the MAF, or getting a cheap FPR and cranking the pressure to make up for smaller injectors.

A lot of the guys with 240s are cheap, not saying it's always bad, yes, I'm a bit thrifty myself, but there are times you have to spend the money if you want to go faster, and many chose to ignore the safe guards and turn up the boost without the proper supporting mods.


Okay,, there is my rant, but unless I got a unicorn SR, the engine is pretty reliable.

[Con-city_s13]

I have an rb20 and regret it. If budget is a big deal, go sr. If you're dead set on six cylinders, go rb25. I remember hearing guys say this before i did my swap and ignored them. Do yourself a favor and dont get go rb20.

[33jrod33]

RB25 series 1 and 2...difference? pros cons. Yeah tried lookin it up. Just got pulled into build threads and what not lol. Very new to this game. Thanks in advance.

[S12 Drifter]

Originally Posted by Drift_FX

fixed.....

your a dumbass nissan silvia REBUILT a RB20 block did a shitty weld job of welding a GT-R manifold on the RB20 used ebay parts and pushed at much power until they ran into loads of lag.

they made 500hp on a STOCK rb20 pistons for OVER 10 hard pulls. 450 for OVER 50 hard bulls and 400hp with OVER 100 hard pulls they were trying to blow it up. it held, as a matter in fact the motor ended up outlasting the shop that re-built it.

I my self will be doing a RB20 compound turbo setup. and will easily push 600rwhp with little to no lag. BB T3 with either a GT35 or possibly a GT40 dual ball bearing.

flaws of the SR20

IT'S NOT A MAIN GIRDLE IT IS INTERNALLY A WEAK NISSAN ENGINE WITH A LOT OF FLEX!!!

it's an aluminum block but because it does not use a main girdle like the RB/ VG's ETC ETC a engine with a main girdle is physically STRONGER then a engine with main caps. the rocker arms show the SR20 is NOT built for performance, it was just a shitty communicator engine.

and while their BOTH 2 liters the RB has less stress across cylinders, RB makes 33.33hp per cylinder while the SR makes 50.00 hp per cylinder the RB is for sure going to be more reliable then the SR.

parts for the RB are NOT as hard to get as you might think it would be.

the SR20 is a shitty fan boi motor people buy because it was in fast and the furious.

do you want a true race inspired motor? FJ20 BEST 4 cylinder nissan made PERIOD end of story.

nissan engines

4 cylinder = FJ20

6 cylinder = RB/VR

v8 = VK56

the RB uses cam on bucket there is direct contact with the valve THUS there is minimal energy loss over period, the SR20 uses rockers, which can break, rocker tappets can go back and eat the lifter, there's a whole slew of things that can happen it also takes more energy to move a rockers and you also lose energy through points you have to move...

does it work? YES is it efficient? NO!

EDIT: stock FJ24's can make as much as 270 crank hp out of the pox with a mild compression of 10.5:1 thats not a lot, and in factory form, clearly the FJ IS a better engine then even the SR shitty.

[S12 Drifter]

Originally Posted by Casperjay

i will add my 2 cents since i have owned both shitty sr20's and rb20's..

both engines are unreliable as hell unless they are freshly rebuilt. even then ive seen brand new sr20's blow up doing a very soft pull down the road. the most fun of the 2 was an rb20, even though it also is horribly unreliable, it sounded like angels mating. and it had awesome torque when it wasnt blowing turbo seals and shit. if you wanna waste your money on one of these to id pick an rb and at least have some sort of enjoyment before it pops

if you had a unreliable RB it's because YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING!

RB = Real brains, because thats what it takes to build them. had it ever spun a bearing? had it ever dropped a valve? has it ever blew a rod out of the block?

the ENGINE it's self was reliable EVERYTHING ELSE! is aged, gaskets need to be changed, seals need to be changed, o-rings need to be changed. and if you blew a rb it was entirely YOUR fault for improper engine setup or improper rebuild.

any engine 20 years or older needs a re-fresh. I'm willing to bet it was probably either your tune, or you have SHITTY luck building motors, or dont know what your doing because nissan engines ARE reliable ESPECIALLY THE rb20 being only 2 liters.

[OrangeVirus1]

All I got to say is I put down 554 at the wheels on my RB20 without even a head gasket.
stock intake manifold, stock cams, stock pistons / rods, stock bore, just a really big turbo

Now.. the head gasket popped shortly after lol, but with Cometic + ARPs you're golden.

if your car is unreliable, it isn't the engines fault, it's the person who owns it.

[S12 Drifter]

Originally Posted by OrangeVirus1

All I got to say is I put down 554 at the wheels on my RB20 without even a head gasket.
stock intake manifold, stock cams, stock pistons / rods, stock bore, just a really big turbo

Now.. the head gasket popped shortly after lol, but with Cometic + ARPs you're golden.

if your car is unreliable, it isn't the engines fault, it's the person who owns it.

you're after my own heart <3 LMAO! you should consider going compound the benifits are godly. full boost by 2,800 all the way to 8,500? and not a dip in power, the perfect power band haha.

[OrangeVirus1]

Originally Posted by S12 Drifter

you're after my own heart <3 LMAO! you should consider going compound the benifits are godly. full boost by 2,800 all the way to 8,500? and not a dip in power, the perfect power band haha.

I am actually doing a Twincharge build on it. I am sticking with my Big turbo for the high end, while using a Eaton Supercharger to get me spooled quicker.

That is a form of compound aswell because they won't be indpendent, the Turbo will be feeding the supercharger, which will compress the boost!

Should be done with it by end of june.

4k-9k is fun zone :P, but I blew my head gasket at 9200, and You get some serious Valve float around 9200


and dude don't even bother with the RB20 speal.. these people here are Die hard Sr20 fans, even when they blow up revving to what a RB20 could consider cruising RPM.
I've said the exact same things to them, Less load per rod, higher rpm, Less detonation because you can run less advance due to the smaller cylinders.. the list goes on. and they say "SR this SR that"
They will never open up to the fact that if you put the two in a line up, the SR20 will blow up before the RB20 even starts getting stressed out.

[S12 Drifter]

Originally Posted by OrangeVirus1

I am actually doing a Twincharge build on it. I am sticking with my Big turbo for the high end, while using a Eaton Supercharger to get me spooled quicker.

That is a form of compound aswell because they won't be indpendent, the Turbo will be feeding the supercharger, which will compress the boost!

Should be done with it by end of june.

4k-9k is fun zone :P, but I blew my head gasket at 9200, and You get some serious Valve float around 9200


and dude don't even bother with the RB20 speal.. these people here are Die hard Sr20 fans, even when they blow up revving to what a RB20 could consider cruising RPM.
I've said the exact same things to them, Less load per rod, higher rpm, Less detonation because you can run less advance due to the smaller cylinders.. the list goes on. and they say "SR this SR that"
They will never open up to the fact that if you put the two in a line up, the SR20 will blow up before the RB20 even starts getting stressed out.

that is BALLS badass.

no one builds RB20's they slap on a rb25 turbo and complain about lag because it's not setup properly LOL n00bs

and yea a bunch of ignorant people i suppose if your going to follow one another follow each other like blind sheep haha

[OrangeVirus1]

lol Lag.. I don't see any boost until 4k rpm WOT

and that's if I WOT right off idle RPM in 3rd gear.

[S12 Drifter]

Originally Posted by OrangeVirus1

lol Lag.. I don't see any boost until 4k rpm WOT

and that's if I WOT right off idle RPM in 3rd gear.

I've seen thats about the RB20's boost threshold around 3000-4k honestly that's still not so bad.

My R32 GTS-T daily driver. RB20, big turbo, big power, but small budget.

hahaha I was thinking of also doing HY35 like this guy lol

[OrangeVirus1]

Originally Posted by S12 Drifter

I've seen thats about the RB20's boost threshold around 3000-4k honestly that's still not so bad.

My R32 GTS-T daily driver. RB20, big turbo, big power, but small budget.

hahaha I was thinking of also doing HY35 like this guy lol

I'd personally go with a HX40 or bigger sized turbo.

I don't like the Holset 35 anything.. Not enough power for that "big size"

and the only thing about a compound build, is that if you really want to make boost down low, you need a REALLY small turbo like K03 sized, which IMO would be a restriction up top even with compound. that's why I decided against it. the Rb20 doesn't even spool a T25 fast enough..

[S12 Drifter]

Originally Posted by OrangeVirus1

I'd personally go with a HX40 or bigger sized turbo.

I don't like the Holset 35 anything.. Not enough power for that "big size"

and the only thing about a compound build, is that if you really want to make boost down low, you need a REALLY small turbo like K03 sized, which IMO would be a restriction up top even with compound. that's why I decided against it. the Rb20 doesn't even spool a T25 fast enough..

ahh I see, I'm pretty new to RB's but there nothing special just another nissan engine but pretty nicely built, simple to work on etc etc. I've messed with a few of them but never owned one but now as a owner their pretty simple engines.

looking to make 400-500hp reliably haha. with supporting mods but I'd be happy with 400 honestly.

[OrangeVirus1]

Originally Posted by S12 Drifter

ahh I see, I'm pretty new to RB's but there nothing special just another nissan engine but pretty nicely built, simple to work on etc etc. I've messed with a few of them but never owned one but now as a owner their pretty simple engines.

looking to make 400-500hp reliably haha. with supporting mods but I'd be happy with 400 honestly.

400 is easy. good sized turbo, fuel mods, tune, done.
yeah they really aren't that special, and they aren't that awesome either. you want to get into the awesome the 4G63 will hands down beat anything.

Compound build is gonna be hard, you will need a custom manifold. for 400hp, if you don't mind a little late spooling ( 36-3800 ) You can do it just from a good turbo.

I'd say get a Gt3071, or a Borg Warner Sxxx

[hobbs]

Originally Posted by S12 Drifter

flaws of the SR20

IT'S NOT A MAIN GIRDLE IT IS INTERNALLY A WEAK NISSAN ENGINE WITH A LOT OF FLEX!!!

it's an aluminum block but because it does not use a main girdle like the RB/ VG's ETC ETC a engine with a main girdle is physically STRONGER then a engine with main caps. the rocker arms show the SR20 is NOT built for performance, it was just a shitty communicator engine.

Florida strikes again with massive amounts of the dumb.

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by S12 Drifter

flaws of the SR20

IT'S NOT A MAIN GIRDLE IT IS INTERNALLY A WEAK NISSAN ENGINE WITH A LOT OF FLEX!!!

it's an aluminum block but because it does not use a main girdle like the RB/ VG's ETC ETC a engine with a main girdle is physically STRONGER then a engine with main caps. the rocker arms show the SR20 is NOT built for performance, it was just a shitty communicator engine.

and while their BOTH 2 liters the RB has less stress across cylinders, RB makes 33.33hp per cylinder while the SR makes 50.00 hp per cylinder the RB is for sure going to be more reliable then the SR.

parts for the RB are NOT as hard to get as you might think it would be.

the SR20 is a shitty fan boi motor people buy because it was in fast and the furious.

Apparently you have no idea what you're talking about. Perhaps you're confusing yourself with the SR20DE and not the SR20DET. All DET's have a main girdles, not to mention very stout rods from the factory. I myself, among with many others have had motors that put out 500whp on factory rods. So, before you go out there spitting misinformation, perhaps you should do some research.

[hobbs]

All SR20DE JDM and USDM come with main girdles aswell, only motors that do not are the SR16VE/SR20VE.

[S12 Drifter]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

Apparently you have no idea what you're talking about. Perhaps you're confusing yourself with the SR20DE and not the SR20DET. All DET's have a main girdles, not to mention very stout rods from the factory. I myself, among with many others have had motors that put out 500whp on factory rods. So, before you go out there spitting misinformation, perhaps you should do some research.

I never said anything about RODS! i said mains. and i must have mistake my self with the crank girdle.

regardless the rocker is a terrible. just because you and a million other people put down 500hp does not make it efficient.

please keep in mind reliability and efficiency are two different things.

[S12 Drifter]

i can make 1,500hp in my 5.0 ford stang with in block cam and push rods. does that mean it's reliable? yes does make it efficient in it's operation? NO it's possibly the LEAST efficient type of valve train setup.

[OrangeVirus1]

Originally Posted by hobbs

Florida strikes again with massive amounts of the dumb.

with all the shit I say, It's a wonder why I don't live in florida :P

[hobbs]

Originally Posted by S12 Drifter

I never said anything about RODS! i said mains. and i must have mistake my self with the crank girdle.

regardless the rocker is a terrible. just because you and a million other people put down 500hp does not make it efficient.

please keep in mind reliability and efficiency are two different things.

A crank girdle and main girdle are the same thing. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Originally Posted by S12 Drifter

i can make 1,500hp in my 5.0 ford stang with in block cam and push rods. does that mean it's reliable? yes does make it efficient in it's operation? NO it's possibly the LEAST efficient type of valve train setup.

Who said anything about a 5.0?

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by hobbs

All SR20DE JDM and USDM come with main girdles aswell, only motors that do not are the SR16VE/SR20VE.

I meant VE dammit...

Originally Posted by S12 Drifter

I never said anything about RODS! i said mains. and i must have mistake my self with the crank girdle.

regardless the rocker is a terrible. just because you and a million other people put down 500hp does not make it efficient.

please keep in mind reliability and efficiency are two different things.

No one will argue that the Rocker design is bad, but it doesn't mean is an unreliable or unefficient motor. People use them to RACE, there are going to be casualties...

Putting 500hp down through any 2L actually makes them efficient. Infact, if you do the math, a 2L 4cyl making 500hp is more efficient than your 2L 6cyl making the same power and weighing 300lbs less while doing it.

[hobbs]

Originally Posted by OrangeVirus1

with all the shit I say, It's a wonder why I don't live in florida :P

You've gotten better, I do have a feeling your days of intercooler piping with duct tape and zip ties are coming to an end. Starting to realize what everyone has told you in the past kinda is making some sense now?

[OrangeVirus1]

Originally Posted by hobbs

You've gotten better, I do have a feeling your days of intercooler piping with duct tape and zip ties are coming to an end. Starting to realize what everyone has told you in the past kinda is making some sense now?

yes those days are over. and I try harder to listen before I start spouting shit.

I swear I only put the duck tape on that pipe to make it look better, it was beat so damn bad.

I still think Rb20 > SR20, except the sad fact that on my dyno paper I was making like 110whp with no boost, which is sad for any straight 6 in existence.

also I read everywhere the Rb20 is only 100lbs heavier. and I'd have to disagree on efficiency. 500hp out of a 6 is more efficient because there is less work on each cylinder to make that power.
when I think efficiency I think how easy it is to do X or X. 1000 HP out of a v8 is way more efficient than 1000hp out of a I4.

[hobbs]

Originally Posted by OrangeVirus1

also I read everywhere the Rb20 is only 100lbs heavier. and I'd have to disagree on efficiency. 500hp out of a 6 is more efficient because there is less work on each cylinder to make that power.
when I think efficiency I think how easy it is to do X or X. 1000 HP out of a v8 is way more efficient than 1000hp out of a I4.

No way the RB20 is only 100lbs heavier, no way in hell.

As far as efficiency, you're doing more work per cylinder on the SR vs RB, you're efficiency rating is higher with the SR because you're doing more with less. I think you confusing efficiency with load per cylinder.

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by OrangeVirus1

yes those days are over. and I try harder to listen before I start spouting shit.

I swear I only put the duck tape on that pipe to make it look better, it was beat so damn bad.

I still think Rb20 > SR20, except the sad fact that on my dyno paper I was making like 110whp with no boost, which is sad for any straight 6 in existence.

That's your personal opinion, just like it is everyone else's that doesn't like the RB20. Don't get so butt hurt over it.

Originally Posted by OrangeVirus1

also I read everywhere the Rb20 is only 100lbs heavier. and I'd have to disagree on efficiency. 500hp out of a 6 is more efficient because there is less work on each cylinder to make that power.
when I think efficiency I think how easy it is to do X or X. 1000 HP out of a v8 is way more efficient than 1000hp out of a I4.

That's not efficieny though... Your using more cylinders, more fuel, more drag, more everything to make those numbers with more rotating mass and parts. It makes them less efficient, not more efficient. Now can those larger motors can be more reliable because they have less stresses on those internal parts, yes.

[OrangeVirus1]

Originally Posted by hobbs

No way the RB20 is only 100lbs heavier, no way in hell.

As far as efficiency, you're doing more work per cylinder on the SR vs RB, you're efficiency rating is higher with the SR because you're doing more with less. I think you confusing efficiency with load per cylinder.

right, wouldn't less load = more efficient? I dunno.. whatever.

I stand by my statement that the Rb20 is only a boat anchor if you leave it stock.

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by OrangeVirus1

right, wouldn't less load = more efficient? I dunno.. whatever.

I stand by my statement that the Rb20 is only a boat anchor if you leave it stock.

Less load doesn't equate to more efficient...

And that would be a good statement.

[hobbs]

Originally Posted by OrangeVirus1

right, wouldn't less load = more efficient? I dunno.. whatever.

I stand by my statement that the Rb20 is only a boat anchor if you leave it stock.

Agreed, nissan could have made the RB motors so much better if they just fixed little shit. I am a FWD SR20 guy at heart though.