New Garrett G-Series turbos!

[metako42]

Originally Posted by Juan@Fontananissan

Last Garrett turbo i sold was leaking out of the box, this is the 4th time i have something like this happen. I have no more faith in Garrett, Borg Warner is where it's at!

I'm interested to know where they were leaking from? Comp housing? Exhaust housing?

[LuckyX2]

The turbine on the G25-660 is only 85% the size of the EFR7163 and the compressor is 94% the size yet it flows the same. Efficiency is 79% vs 74% on the EFR. Hands down, Garrett's turbine/compressor aero is better. The only thing keeping the EFR competitive is the TiAl turbine material, if Garrett made a TiAl version of the G25-660 it'd be no contest.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

The turbine on the G25-660 is only 85% the size of the EFR7163 and the compressor is 94% the size yet it flows the same. Efficiency is 79% vs 74% on the EFR. Hands down, Garrett's turbine/compressor aero is better. The only thing keeping the EFR competitive is the TiAl turbine material, if Garrett made a TiAl version of the G25-660 it'd be no contest.

Tial wheels necessitate a different design due to strength characteristics, and let’s not forget about the mixed flow wheel, which does bring the turbo online faster. Efr’s also have the built in recirc valve and a cost advantage at this point. Garrett definitely has built what seems to be some fantastic competition here though!

I’m excited for further products in the G-series line. The next step up in turbine size is going to get real rowdy!

[PoorMans180SX]

Alright, who's got 'em? Post results here!

[cured13]

The're all crashed and scrapped already, lol.
Keep saving $$$$, haha
This is new hotness now

[slider2828]

^^That is antilag on a battery.... I guess sooner or later gotta have a bigger battery and a bigger alternator..... cool stuf thanks for sharing!

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...turbo-engines/

[tuzzio]

Here for results. wish I wasn't so cheap..haha

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Alright, who's got 'em? Post results here!

Check out the on point dyno guys with the green SR powered drift car. Its on the boobtuuubbbee

[pacotaco345]

Originally Posted by slider2828

^^That is antilag on a battery.... I guess sooner or later gotta have a bigger battery and a bigger alternator..... cool stuf thanks for sharing!

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...turbo-engines/

Imagine if you used the antilag motor in the CHRA as a generator when you got to your desired boost level.. i.e. no wastegate, just turn it into an electric brake that limits the turbine speed and feeds back into the battery. Then you get rid of the wastegate AND the bigger alternator

[spooled240]

All I can think of is all the transmissions I'd be breaking LOL

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by pacotaco345

Imagine if you used the antilag motor in the CHRA as a generator when you got to your desired boost level.. i.e. no wastegate, just turn it into an electric brake that limits the turbine speed and feeds back into the battery. Then you get rid of the wastegate AND the bigger alternator

This is how modern F1 cars function.

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

Check out the on point dyno guys with the green SR powered drift car. Its on the boobtuuubbbee

Yeah I've seen it, was just curious about other combinations.

[pacotaco345]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

This is how modern F1 cars function.

Mhm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[e30gangsta]

Originally Posted by tuzzio

Here for results. wish I wasn't so cheap..haha

Lz has a video on his built Sr with a g25-550 on the Dyno. Iirc it made 500 on stock fuel lines or very close to it. With solid response on a stock intake manifold. If I was to run one of these it would be with a mazworx intake manifoldz or the stock intake manifold and have it extrude honed.

[e1_griego]

^^Just shy of 500whp on e85 and stock intake manifold. Though I think it was like 95* on that day, too.

I'm planning to grab one this winter -- still undecided between the 550 or 660 (leaning towards 660 because why not?), but I bought the mazworx intake manifold already...

[Colorado S14]

Where is the best bang for the buck in the market right now? New G-Series or EFR, or ?.

[tb13]

Originally Posted by e1_griego

^^Just shy of 500whp on e85 and stock intake manifold. Though I think it was like 95* on that day, too.

I'm planning to grab one this winter -- still undecided between the 550 or 660 (leaning towards 660 because why not?), but I bought the mazworx intake manifold already...

His setup made really impressive power, I picked up a G25-550 after seeing that and talking to some friends.

My SR is built with slightly bumped compression, ported/polished head, Tomei 260 cams, Greddy manifold and will be on ethanol. I've got the .72 housing on mine, kinda worried its going to be a choke point, but we'll see once I get its a little later this year. Will report back with numbers!

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by tb13

His setup made really impressive power, I picked up a G25-550 after seeing that and talking to some friends.

My SR is built with slightly bumped compression, ported/polished head, Tomei 260 cams, Greddy manifold and will be on ethanol. I've got the .72 housing on mine, kinda worried its going to be a choke point, but we'll see once I get its a little later this year. Will report back with numbers!

Very nice setup. IMHO I think it would make more sense to move to the G30-660 than run a big turbine housing on the G25's. If you are looking for response, I think you'll be really happy with that setup.

[e1_griego]

^That's kind of where i'm at. Either g25-660, or g30-660. From look at ATP it seems they run the same inlet/outlet flanges, too, so easy enough to swap around.

[tb13]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Very nice setup. IMHO I think it would make more sense to move to the G30-660 than run a big turbine housing on the G25's. If you are looking for response, I think you'll be really happy with that setup.

Response was the main focus of the setup, if I make 400whp and have near instant response I think I'll be happy. Car will probably stay a street car for a while, but if it ever transitions to a mainly track car and want some more top end the G30-660 would probably be the way to go.

Originally Posted by e1_griego

^That's kind of where i'm at. Either g25-660, or g30-660. From look at ATP it seems they run the same inlet/outlet flanges, too, so easy enough to swap around.

Speed Academy on YouTube just swapped from a G25-660 to a G30-660 on their STi and saw great top end gains. Even with the larger exhaust wheel on The G30 and a larger A/R housing they didn't lose much low end on the EJ207 that is in the car.

[e1_griego]

Literally watching that right now haha.

Making me lean towards the g30 for sure.

[tb13]

Originally Posted by e1_griego

Literally watching that right now haha.

Making me lean towards the g30 for sure.

Seeing their results, a G30-660 with the .83 A/R housing would probably be the sweet spot for a 500whp SR with insane response.

I'm really considering getting the Garrett turbine wheel speed sensor for my setup too after seeing AdamLZ explode one on his car. Considering the response people are seeing running these turbos, I could see it being important to keep an eye on turbine speed while tuning to ensure longevity. Would also be really cool to compare this data vs a G30 on an SR with a similar setup.

[e1_griego]

Originally Posted by tb13

Seeing their results, a G30-660 with the .83 A/R housing would probably be the sweet spot for a 500whp SR with insane response.

Exactly what I'm thinking.

[tuzzio]

That thing doesn't look as bad top mounted as I thought it would.

[e30gangsta]

I saw that video as well. They lost a lot of response under the curve though almost 1000 rpm. I'd shoot for the g25-660 before the g30-660 to try to keep the response as best as possible.

[RalliartRsX]

I don't know if I'm down with the speed academy results. Not only did they lose 1000 rpm in spool, they really tried to play it down/off as no big deal on the street

Also they never discuss boost tip in/recovery at all

Sorry, I'm just not buying what speed academy is selling and disappointed in the test/results if they really were focused on response. Even Pete at one point was like "yeah it falls out of boost between shift but hey its cool....."

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by tb13

Seeing their results, a G30-660 with the .83 A/R housing would probably be the sweet spot for a 500whp SR with insane response.

I'm really considering getting the Garrett turbine wheel speed sensor for my setup too after seeing AdamLZ explode one on his car. Considering the response people are seeing running these turbos, I could see it being important to keep an eye on turbine speed while tuning to ensure longevity. Would also be really cool to compare this data vs a G30 on an SR with a similar setup.

Yeah if you're running any turbo hard and get a decent size boost leak, that thing is going to spin to the moon. Always good to have turbo speed on a serious setup.

Originally Posted by e30gangsta

I saw that video as well. They lost a lot of response under the curve though almost 1000 rpm. I'd shoot for the g25-660 before the g30-660 to try to keep the response as best as possible.

They went larger with the exhaust housing as well. This kinda makes the test moot. These kinds of things have already been shown to happen in the EFR lineup. If you're going to move to a bigger turbine housing, you might as well move up a whole turbo size, because they spool roughly the same, but the bigger turbo just makes more power. It's the same thing with the GTX gen II. If you had a 3076 and were thinking about moving up in turbine housing size, it was a much better idea to go to the GTX3576, because it spools identically, just makes more power.

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

I don't know if I'm down with the speed academy results. Not only did they lose 1000 rpm in spool, they really tried to play it down/off as no big deal on the street

Also they never discuss boost tip in/recovery at all

Sorry, I'm just not buying what speed academy is selling and disappointed in the test/results if they really were focused on response. Even Pete at one point was like "yeah it falls out of boost between shift but hey its cool....."

Yeah, they do goofy things with their turbo sizing. A stock cam EJ207 isn't exactly a top-end kind of engine hah. Of course they need huge exhaust flow to cram all that air in that anemic engine. I thought it was hilarious when they moved up in turbine housing size on the G25 and gained basically zero top end. This proves that the turbine is always the biggest restriction. If someone is shooting for response, I always recommend they run a turbine that will flow the power they need in the smallest (reasonable) turbine housing.

To put it in perspective, I have personally seen a G25-660 in a .92 housing make 505whp on E85 on an Evo X. AdamLZ's SR20 made just shy of 500whp on the 550 with mild cams! The EJ just doesn't make power.

I did think it was funny how they were trying emphasize how much faster it "feels"...well yeah, it makes 100 more whp... and how they said that the spool really wasn't noticeable or even better on the street... like naw guys, you just have a goofy setup haha.

As a side note, the G25-660 has a turbine to compressor diameter difference of 13mm. That's pretty significant on such a small turbo, and kind of fits Garrett's classic mistake of "big compressor, little turbine" in the name of "response". This usually affects transient response the most, and I bet if you put the two turbos back to back on the same engine, the 660 would be less than impressive in it's power gain/response loss.

I'm not claiming that I'm some turbo knowledge god, but I nerd out on this shit and I've seen a ton of different turbo setups. These are my educated theories.

[e30gangsta]

What I really want to see is a g25-550/g25-660 with some jwt s4hl cams on a det full tilt. Just so we can actually know what exactly were looking at for peak det performance without a vvl upgrade.

[RalliartRsX]

Poorman you pretty much sum up what I was thinking.

Garret, for years, have had an outdated turbine wheel. Shoot, the old outgoing wheels were coming along on 40+ years old and all they did was address the compressor wheel. Sweet, I just squeezed 100WHP more of heat at the same boost level, with none of the benefits of a more efficient turbine wheel. That causes all sorts of imbalance issue......more evident in the shitty tip in and boost recovery...the shit that actually matters on the street and track

There is a reason manufacturers do not give out turbine wheel maps. Because that is where is magic is and Garrett has paid little attention for the aftermarket as they had little competition a decade ago. That has changed drastically.....

The speed Academy results are........not something I would hang my hat on. The EJ series of engines have a really shitty flowing head, long runners to the turbo and overall, is not a good design. The new FA20 is much improved.

Now, I am not shitting on the new G series. I am shitting on the Speed Academy mischaracterization of the results.

[RalliartRsX]

Stick with the G25-550, a good flowing head and go break some hearts. I would not be stepping up to the G30-660 unless I have a VET, B series v btec or a K series head in terms of flow if I want a useful rev range

[e30gangsta]

I'm waiting for driftcrash's channel on YT to post his g25-660 Dyno sheet. So I can compare how much laggyer it is than a g25-550. I just want to see how much later the power comes on.