The Future Automotive Thread

[Future240]

Nissan is breaking up with Renault.

https://www.ft.com/content/8e09fb16-...3-9a26f8c3cba4

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Future240

Nissan is breaking up with Renault.

https://www.ft.com/content/8e09fb16-...3-9a26f8c3cba4

Further fueling Goshen's claims of a conspiracy...

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[TheRealSy90]

Originally Posted by spooled240

Very neat. It's almost like they were just tired of the complaints and are now going overboard to address the lack of power, I love it.

This new GR86 will be the true successor to the Silvia K's/Spec R..that is if they still offer a manual transmission option lol

Especially considering the 86 and S15 Spec-R used basically the same Aisin AZ6 transmission architecture.

[mechanicalmoron]

Originally Posted by Corbic

English as a second language? I have no idea what you are arguing.

I listed why Nissan did not sell the Turbocharged versions of the S13 and S14. It's not conjecture, it's the truth.

All the Japanese brands where forced at the end of the 90's to globalized their platforms and cut the fat. Goshen combined the S15 and Z32 into one car, the 350Z and killed wasteful programs like the GT-R.



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You wrote some crap that looks like the masturbation in motor magazine articles - do you write for panorama?

SR still sucks, no matter how hard you rationalize swapping that turd.

[spooled240]

Any guesses on how much this GR86 will be? The Supra's $50k, so I'd guess around $35k-$37k. Not too bad considering a loaded s15 spec R was over $40k in today's dollars if I remember correctly.

..this might be the first time I've ever been excited about a new car

[ronmcdon]

current 86 starts off 27k and brz 29k. I think toyota/subaru will be taking a risk if they raise prices too much, so I'd go with 29k gr86, 31k new BRZ. Max pricing, 34k gr86 & 36k new BRZ.

you also figure the 86's closest competitor, the miata club convertible goes for right around 30k to 35k depending on if you want the brembos, bbs, recaros. So I doubt the gr86 would go significantly higher unless somehow Toyota makes the unfortunate decision to go 'upscale,' bloat the car with luxuries and tech.

hell I'll be happy if the car doesn't get released as a crossover. The word coupe is pretty confusing by today's standards. Agreed it's exciting. Would be ecstatic if forced induction was confirmed.

I blame the failure of the 240sx as a result of xenophobia, arrogance and closed mindedness. Not sure what the fuss is about the sr20det not being good. had one and it was fine for the most part and not noticeably worse than the ej25 (usdm sti) or 4b11 (evo x) that ive experienced. the ej25 does sound pretty great.

[exitspeed]

Yeah I agree that it no longer starts at less than $30 if they’re going this GR86 route and trying to market it as Supra’s little brother, which would a genius move for both the 86 and the Supra. Toyota IS dedicated to cars (they will NOT be abandoning sedans either) and making niche vehicles. They’re huge, they can and watch to make cars for enthusiasts. They aren’t maybe exactly as we’d want (I agree they should use their own engines) them but they exist and are pretty damn good.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by spooled240

Any guesses on how much this GR86 will be? The Supra's $50k, so I'd guess around $35k-$37k. Not too bad considering a loaded s15 spec R was over $40k in today's dollars if I remember correctly.

..this might be the first time I've ever been excited about a new car

Motor trend makes a good point on this.

These improvements—save, we figure, the new badge—will no doubt warrant a jump in price. That said, it's unlikely it'll be too much more than the 86's current $27,000 price of entry, lest the model cease to serve as an attainable jump-off point for the Supra. (That car currently runs $50,945 to start.) The next-gen sports car will also help expand the relationship between Subaru and Toyota, as the automakers are reportedly collaborating on other vehicles, including hybrids.

The problem is for 27K you can get a used Stang.

Shoot, here is one near me two years old with 35K miles for 25K

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/t-Used...765_isFeatured

Edit:

Found a manual GT 35K miles 2017 24.7K
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/t-Used...ting=247011976


Two year old mustangs would not have dramatically worse financing than new cars. The BRZ/86 twins would have a hard time competing with that.

[exitspeed]

Yeah but those are two different weapons serving 2 different purposes (sledge hammer vs katana). You can't deny the bang for the buck you get from the Mustang and Camaro but they are still totally different cars (compared to the brz/86).

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by Future240

Motor trend makes a good point on this.



The problem is for 27K you can get a used Stang.

Shoot, here is one near me two years old with 35K miles for 25K

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/t-Used...765_isFeatured

Edit:

Found a manual GT 35K miles 2017 24.7K
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/t-Used...ting=247011976


Two year old mustangs would not have dramatically worse financing than new cars. The BRZ/86 twins would have a hard time competing with that.

True, my dad purchased a GT with the performance package for $32k in 2017. A ton of car for the money, but they are a different animal (pun intended) compared to the 86. You have almost a 1000lb difference in weight and drastic differences in size and overall driving experience.

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Yeah but those are two different weapons serving 2 different purposes (sledge hammer vs katana). You can't deny the bang for the buck you get from the Mustang and Camaro but they are still totally different cars (compared to the brz/86).

This.

3700lb Mustang GT with 435-460hp Vs. (I'm guessing) 28XXlb GR86 with (also guessing) 265-280hp. *Edit: spooled beat me to it.

For the type of driving I like to do, I'd choose the GR86... Sure the Mustang GT will probably be one second quicker in the 1/4 mile (stock), but the person who buys a GR86 isn't going to care.

A GR86 (turbo) with the Brembo package is going to be pretty enticing for me.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

This.

3700lb Mustang GT with 435-460hp Vs. (I'm guessing) 28XXlb GR86 with (also guessing) 265-280hp. *Edit: spooled beat me to it.

For the type of driving I like to do, I'd choose the GR86... Sure the Mustang GT will probably be one second quicker in the 1/4 mile (stock), but the person who buys a GR86 isn't going to care.

A GR86 (turbo) with the Brembo package is going to be pretty enticing for me.

The 18+ run high 10s with bolt ons and e85.

I'm guessing low 12's for a tuned GR86.



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[Corbic]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Yeah but those are two different weapons serving 2 different purposes (sledge hammer vs katana). You can't deny the bang for the buck you get from the Mustang and Camaro but they are still totally different cars (compared to the brz/86).

"Totally Different"... Meh

Challenger is different, but the compact and light Camaro Turbo 4 is your spiritual successor to the S15. Hell, it even looks like one from certain angles.

GR86 and Ecoboost Mustang will be direct competitors in Europe and in the magazines.

Mustang is larger and heavier, that's good and bad. It means more interior space and better build quality.

We've all heard the complaints about shitty materials, easily cracked and scratched glass, rattles etc from the Brfzr86s.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we're getting a sequel and I hope it all the best.

It's just going to lack that 90's styling and charm and I'm not going to give a shit.

I bought a 500hp street/strip muscle car and I'm not about to change it up anytime soon.



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[spooled240]

Originally Posted by Corbic

It's just going to lack that 90's styling and charm and I'm not going to give a shit.

Are there any new cars today that have this?

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by Corbic

The 18+ run high 10s with bolt ons and e85.

It's truly impressive how quick a bolt on 18+ can be in the 1/4 mile.

The S15 Spec R ran 13.9 stock vs. the '17 Mustang GT doing 12.9/ 13, so that's what I roughly based the one second quicker of off.

If I was into a "street/strip" type car it would definitely be one of these new American muscle cars. For me I'm just more into driving on narrow winding roads.

Also, (imo) a true "spirited successor" to the S15 has to be:

• sub 3000lbs
• turbo with at least 250hp
• 5, or 6 speed manual
• two door coupe with a back seat (even if it's useless)

The 2020 Camro LS is showing 3351lbs (that's AWD, or might as well have a V8 weight).

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by spooled240

Are there any new cars today that have this?

2020 Nissan Frontier... Since it's basically from the 90's...


New cars are best appreciated for their solid luxury feel and comfort.

A FRZB86 will never feel as raw and light as a AE86 or S13.

But a Challenger Hellcat is going to be a billion times nicer to cruise in then a '93 Camaro.

So I guess you just gotta love it for what it is I guess. I don't love the 86 the way it is more than I love cars it's supposed to emulate, the S13, FC, AMD 350Z.

I love the new Challenger for what it is. It's not Vintage Mopar, but that's alright, because what makes it "not", still makes it fun.

For the 86, what makes it "not an S15", doesn't make it fun, it just reminds me it's "not an S15".

Does that make any sense?



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[Corbic]

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

Also, (imo) a true "spirited successor" to the S15 has to be:

• sub 3000lbs
• turbo with at least 250hp
• 5, or 6 speed manual
• two door coupe with a back seat (even if it's useless)

The 2020 Camro LS is showing 3351lbs (that's AWD, or might as well have a V8 weight).

AWD Camaro... Huh

[emoji849]

Its 2020, average car is now pushing 4k lbs.

Base Manual Turbo 4 is $25,000, weights 3,300lbs.

275hp

That is damn light. The car is also small in person and is very sharp handling. The Silvia is the defacto Japanese Mustang.

I'm sure if you saw more guys rocking these with body kits and TE37s, you'd get it.


http://stancewheels.com/wp-content/u...nce_sf08-3.jpg



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[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by Corbic

For the 86, what makes it "not an S15", doesn't make it fun, it just reminds me it's "not an S15".

This is why a lot of people were disappointed with the FRS/BRZ/GT86 not being available with a turbo...

Instead of "not an S15" it could of been it's own viable contender (being equal to, or better in performance).

Originally Posted by Corbic

AWD Camaro... Huh

[emoji849]

Its 2020, average car is now pushing 4k lbs.

Base Manual Turbo 4 is $25,000, weights 3,300lbs.

275hp

That is damn light. The car is also small in person and is very sharp handling. The Silvia is the defacto Japanese Mustang.

I'm sure if you saw more guys rocking these with body kits and TE37s, you'd get it.


http://stancewheels.com/wp-content/u...nce_sf08-3.jpg

Not at all... EVO's and STI's are around the same weight/ HP and are "AWD". Why would I want a similarly weighted RWD turbo 4 muscle car?

Now if Ford, or Chevy put their motors in a sub 3000lb RWD car I'd be all in. The same would be said if they made a 3300-3400lb AWD sports car (it sucks Ford didn't further the Focus RS).

[ronmcdon]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Yeah but those are two different weapons serving 2 different purposes (sledge hammer vs katana). You can't deny the bang for the buck you get from the Mustang and Camaro but they are still totally different cars (compared to the brz/86).

Im with you on that. Nobody buys cars like the 86 or miata because its the fastest car. its appeal is in more the way it drives and with personal experience speaking of the miata, how fun it is on the street and track. Not to mention how cheap it is to track too in general.

If I had 35k to spend on a car right now it would definitely be a ND miata 30th anniversary convertible and no way it would be a mustang even if I could get a GT w performance pkg 2 for the same money.

Issue with the camero are the dimensions. it's a huge car with a longer 110" wheelbase. that's not going to change even at 3300 lbs. There's still something cumbersome about the about the way it drives especially as a daily driver, and it's not going to drive the same way a lighter miata or 86. Only ever driven a NA miata & Z1LE so speculating here. I do think the turbo 1LE looks great on paper, along with the other 1LE cars.

[exitspeed]

Hold the fucking phone...new Z is going to envoys the 240z!?

“They’re going back to the roots of the car,”

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/01/16/...-nissan-z-car/

So is this going to be a Supra competitor at around $50k or is this slotted above a GR86 but below a Supra? In the like $40k range? I’m all about that shit. As long as it’s not just a rebadged Q60 that’s heavy af.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Hold the fucking phone...new Z is going to envoys the 240z!?

“They’re going back to the roots of the car,”

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/01/16/...-nissan-z-car/

So is this going to be a Supra competitor at around $50k or is this slotted above a GR86 but below a Supra? In the like $40k range? I’m all about that shit. As long as it’s not just a rebadged Q60 that’s heavy af.

... Sooo the 350Z again?

Or worse the 370Z?

Remember all the retro throw back features in the 350Z and then they tried to make it even more Retro and it just looked like dogs ass (370Z)?

The Z32 was a departure from super car styling and technology and a throw back to a simple 2 seat N/A Coupe, complete with retro center gauges, lift back trunk and corner headlights...



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[dorkidori_s13]

well i guess Nissan didnt build that "manual" option in the ECM in for nothing given all of its parameters allow for a manual transmission tune setup... not sure if any of you saw that manual tranny swap in the Q60 from Concept Z Performance, but im guessing that manual programming was in there for a reason

i cant find the exact video where the show the ECM toggle for it, but heres proof that a manual swap in the Q60 twin turbo can be done 100% functionally (and im not talking half ass, back yard ghetto 240sx swap shit)

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Corbic

... Sooo the 350Z again?

Or worse the 370Z?

Remember all the retro throw back features in the 350Z and then they tried to make it even more Retro and it just looked like dogs ass (370Z)?

The Z32 was a departure from super car styling and technology and a throw back to a simple 2 seat N/A Coupe, complete with retro center gauges, lift back trunk and corner headlights...



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I’ve always really liked the 350 and 370. I think they hold up really well.

[Future240]

Agreed as far as looks. The problem with the Z car is it is in direct competition with the Pony cars.

I'm sure yall remember when the 350z launched it was faster than the Mustang of that year.

The Mustang, Camaro are so far ahead of the 370z for less money.

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by Future240

The Mustang, Camaro are so far ahead of the 370z for less money.

This is why Nissan should make a smaller sports car and not another "Grand Tourer".

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

This is why Nissan should make a smaller sports car and not another "Grand Tourer".

And Miata, Alfa, Porsche and BMW are.. Sooo far ahead with compact roadsters.

The other problem is the number of people that can live day-to-day with a Mustang sized Coupe is exponentially larger then the people that can survive with a Miata.

Nissan needs to do a Ford/Dodge and build the next Z35/R36 on the same chassis.

Base Turbo 4
N/A V6
Turbo V6

RWD + Optional AWD

GT-R being the stupid overbuilt GT500/RE/ZL1 fighter with a DCT AWD system instead of auto based one.

Offer Sedan and Coupe, partner with Porsche for that 7spd DCT AWD transaxle, get with ZF for am 8spd Auto, continue using the CD09 based 6spd.

Call the car..

Nissan Skyline

Turbo (I4)
GT (V6)
Type-Z (turbo 6)
GT-R

Have a GTS-T with the performance parts from the Type-Z on a Turbo-4 and a GTX with the same on a V6.

28k I4
35k V6
48k V6TT
85k GTR





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[Future240]

Originally Posted by Corbic

GT-R being the stupid overbuilt GT500/RE/ZL1 fighter with a DCT AWD system instead of auto based one.

With the MSRP now over 100K for one is it really a GT500/ZL1 fighter?

MSRP

GT500-$73,995
Zl1 -$62,000
GTR-$113,540

It even costs more than a Porsche 911 Turbo.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Future240

With the MSRP now over 100K for one is it really a GT500/ZL1 fighter?



MSRP



GT500-$73,995

Zl1 -$62,000

GTR-$113,540



It even costs more than a Porsche 911 Turbo.

Well Nissan was stupid and didn't share the chassis costs. So each year individual parts became astronomically more expensive driving up costs.

HC RE Windshield - $439 (OEM)
GTR Windshield - $985 (OEM)

HCRE Fender $175.50 (OEM)
GTR Fender $1,349.65 (OEM)

HCRE Dash Panel $161
GTR Dash Panel $1,030


List goes on. Build 400 cars a year parts costs go up. (331 for 2019)

Had Nissan shared this car even with the dismal sales of the 370Z (2,380 cars this year), that's a 720% increase in body part and interior orders.

That's huge.

370Z windshield is $650. $400 savings over a GTR, 40% cost reduction.

A HCRE is basically $40k in mods into a $30k base car.

A GTR is $40k mods into a base $70k car.

Get that base car price down to $30k and boom, realistically priced GTRs that actually sell.








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[mechanicalmoron]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Hold the fucking phone...new Z is going to envoys the 240z!?

“They’re going back to the roots of the car,”

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/01/16/...-nissan-z-car/

So is this going to be a Supra competitor at around $50k or is this slotted above a GR86 but below a Supra? In the like $40k range? I’m all about that shit. As long as it’s not just a rebadged Q60 that’s heavy af.

Looks like a 370. Only uglier and like they pilfered design language from classics that deserved to be left out of nissan's current fuckery.

It has "infotainment" in the article's title - run the fuck away.

[ronmcdon]

Good luck getting a gt500 at msrp $74k. Its already well over 90k with the track package so its realistically closer to a 85 to 100k car if not more. Seems to perform really well in a recent track test video against the Porsche GT3RS thats almost double in price.