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S Chassis Technical discussion related to the S Chassis such as the S12, S13, S14, and S15.


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Old 01-02-2020, 09:01 PM   #31
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At the very least pop off the hub dust caps and grab a torque wrench and hit the hub nut, S13 specs 108-150 lbs

If the vibration has been present with all those different wheels its most likely not a tire or rim issue.

And just food for thought, warped rotors can cause a vibration at all times and be worse at higher speeds, and if they are really bad when you brake it will vibrate/ shake the steering wheel badly.

But seeing that your saying its an intermittent vibration im thinking its more of a suspension component thats loose and when your hitting uneven ground thats when you feel the vibration.

I dunno bro, its hard to diag without looking at it in person. But theres really not that much to look at honestly. Do a shake down, left to right on the wheel will check tie rod play, pulling towards yourself from the top and pushing the bottom will tell you if there is wheel bearing play, and using a large pry bar under the tire will tell you if there is ball joint play.

When you did the solid rack joint and rack bushings did you unbolt the shaft collar from the rack? If so did you tighten it back?

When you did the tension rod bushings, if they are stock, did you put in the steel collar for the bolt in the center?

Im just trying to think of things you may have overlooked.

Also and most importantly, did you have this vibration issue before you replaced any parts? If not, then one of the parts you replaced is most likely the cause. Good rule of thumb is going back to the last job done if theres a problem
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Old 01-03-2020, 12:36 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NashT View Post
At the very least pop off the hub dust caps and grab a torque wrench and hit the hub nut, S13 specs 108-150 lbs

If the vibration has been present with all those different wheels its most likely not a tire or rim issue.

And just food for thought, warped rotors can cause a vibration at all times and be worse at higher speeds, and if they are really bad when you brake it will vibrate/ shake the steering wheel badly.

But seeing that your saying its an intermittent vibration im thinking its more of a suspension component thats loose and when your hitting uneven ground thats when you feel the vibration.

I dunno bro, its hard to diag without looking at it in person. But theres really not that much to look at honestly. Do a shake down, left to right on the wheel will check tie rod play, pulling towards yourself from the top and pushing the bottom will tell you if there is wheel bearing play, and using a large pry bar under the tire will tell you if there is ball joint play.

When you did the solid rack joint and rack bushings did you unbolt the shaft collar from the rack? If so did you tighten it back?

When you did the tension rod bushings, if they are stock, did you put in the steel collar for the bolt in the center?

Im just trying to think of things you may have overlooked.

Also and most importantly, did you have this vibration issue before you replaced any parts? If not, then one of the parts you replaced is most likely the cause. Good rule of thumb is going back to the last job done if theres a problem
If he doesn't have a pulsation or wheel wobble under hard braking, the rotors are NOT warped, and it has NOTHING to do with impact wrenches.

However, a rotor could be damaged or defective in a way that allows or forces mis-centering, defective new parts are relatively common. If you can isolate the feeling to one side, swap rotors and see if it changes.

Natural resonances can do really nasty things with bad dampers, and even with fine dampers the 240 has some weird unpleasant crap that the stock suspension causes - you know how they say it has McPherson suspension for "performance" or "handling"? What they mean is, for the bare minimum handling performance that's acceptable, as opposed to good suspension designs...
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Old 01-03-2020, 01:18 PM   #33
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I have had this shake since shortly after I bought the car. The shake used to be a lot worse. So it is getting better but it’s still there.

So far I have done:
BC Coilovers
Inner/outer tie rods
Adjustable angled tension rods
Adjustable rear toe control
Adjustable rear traction rods
Adjustable rear upper control arm
Polyurethane steering rack bushings
Solid steering shaft bushing
Transmission mount

I’m looking at getting the GK Tech front LCAs, new ball joints and also replacing the wheel bearings at the same time. And possibly gonna replace the rotors and brake pads up front since they are getting old.

Last edited by Taylor822; 01-03-2020 at 01:19 PM.. Reason: Missed info
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Old 01-03-2020, 01:34 PM   #34
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Every steering shake that I've encountered has been the ball joints. Just because they look okay doesn't mean they are good.
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Old 01-03-2020, 01:48 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
Every steering shake that I've encountered has been the ball joints. Just because they look okay doesn't mean they are good.
I’ll be doing ball joints tonight or tomorrow. Will update if that fixes the issue.
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Old 01-03-2020, 02:41 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechanicalmoron View Post
If he doesn't have a pulsation or wheel wobble under hard braking, the rotors are NOT warped, and it has NOTHING to do with impact wrenches.

However, a rotor could be damaged or defective in a way that allows or forces mis-centering, defective new parts are relatively common. If you can isolate the feeling to one side, swap rotors and see if it changes.

Natural resonances can do really nasty things with bad dampers, and even with fine dampers the 240 has some weird unpleasant crap that the stock suspension causes - you know how they say it has McPherson suspension for "performance" or "handling"? What they mean is, for the bare minimum handling performance that's acceptable, as opposed to good suspension designs...
Warped rotors can be felt without braking especially at high speeds, yet is more readily felt under braking no doubt.
A badly warped rotor can feel like an unbalanced wheel at cruising.
Ex: Ever notice how nice and smooth a car rides after a full brake job?

And using an impact on wheels unless you are using a torque stick is the number 1 cause of warped rotors. Ask any reputable tech or google it.
If you have a micrometer you can check your rotors easily.

And the only defects in parts that Id say are "common" mostly occur in the cheap stuff and no name brands that have poor quality control

Let us know if you find the culprit as im curious, sorry to high jack but I couldn't help but respond to what that guy posted
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Old 01-03-2020, 02:45 PM   #37
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Have you checked the core support bolts to frame and tension rod bracket bolts to frame?
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Old 01-03-2020, 03:10 PM   #38
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Have you checked the core support bolts to frame and tension rod bracket bolts to frame?
I believe I did. I was underneath the car for a while last night just hitting every single nut and bolt under the front end. There were a couple I was able to turn a bit. But none that seems extremely loose to the point is would cause the issue.
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Old 01-03-2020, 06:07 PM   #39
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Im out of ideas to suggest then bro, and theres no other componets to check.

Really the last idea I have, but im not sure its just a thought, the steering column has bearings, is there any slop in your steering wheel/ column?
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Old 01-03-2020, 06:36 PM   #40
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Steering wheel and shaft are solid. Both of the ball joints look very old. Replacing those tomorrow. Today I noticed that there is some up and down play on the steering rack shaft on the driver side. Not sure if there should be any play there or if that could be the culprit.
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Old 01-03-2020, 06:42 PM   #41
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This is what I’m talking about.

Edit: I’m trying to upload a picture but it’s not seeming to work.
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Old 01-03-2020, 08:09 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor822 View Post
I have had this shake since shortly after I bought the car. The shake used to be a lot worse. So it is getting better but it’s still there.

So far I have done:
BC Coilovers
Inner/outer tie rods
Adjustable angled tension rods
Adjustable rear toe control
Adjustable rear traction rods
Adjustable rear upper control arm
Polyurethane steering rack bushings
Solid steering shaft bushing
Transmission mount

I’m looking at getting the GK Tech front LCAs, new ball joints and also replacing the wheel bearings at the same time. And possibly gonna replace the rotors and brake pads up front since they are getting old.
You're sure you're not feeling intermittent washboard in the road? You'll feel things that are real, and invisible, with what you've done to the car.
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Old 01-03-2020, 08:29 PM   #43
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You're sure you're not feeling intermittent washboard in the road? You'll feel things that are real, and invisible, with what you've done to the car.
That could be a possibility. But it doesn’t really matter if it’s the smoothest or roughest road, it comes and goes almost like it’s on a timer. It’ll vibrate for 30 seconds and be gone for 30 seconds and repeat. But like I said the ball joints look really bad and after closer inspection at least one of the wheel bearings may be also be going out. I am doing ball joints and at least one of the wheel bearings tomorrow and will post an update.
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Old 01-03-2020, 08:45 PM   #44
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That could be a possibility. But it doesn’t really matter if it’s the smoothest or roughest road, it comes and goes almost like it’s on a timer. It’ll vibrate for 30 seconds and be gone for 30 seconds and repeat. But like I said the ball joints look really bad and after closer inspection at least one of the wheel bearings may be also be going out. I am doing ball joints and at least one of the wheel bearings tomorrow and will post an update.
A very happy wheel bearing fun time to you
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Old 01-04-2020, 11:19 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NashT View Post
Warped rotors can be felt without braking especially at high speeds, yet is more readily felt under braking no doubt.
A badly warped rotor can feel like an unbalanced wheel at cruising.
Ex: Ever notice how nice and smooth a car rides after a full brake job?

And using an impact on wheels unless you are using a torque stick is the number 1 cause of warped rotors. Ask any reputable tech or google it.
If you have a micrometer you can check your rotors easily.

And the only defects in parts that Id say are "common" mostly occur in the cheap stuff and no name brands that have poor quality control

Let us know if you find the culprit as im curious, sorry to high jack but I couldn't help but respond to what that guy posted
if the rotors were that warped you would be feeling some serious feedback from the brake pedal when you hit the brakes
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Old 01-04-2020, 12:29 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NashT View Post
Warped rotors can be felt without braking especially at high speeds, yet is more readily felt under braking no doubt.
A badly warped rotor can feel like an unbalanced wheel at cruising.
Ex: Ever notice how nice and smooth a car rides after a full brake job?

And using an impact on wheels unless you are using a torque stick is the number 1 cause of warped rotors. Ask any reputable tech or google it.
If you have a micrometer you can check your rotors easily.

And the only defects in parts that Id say are "common" mostly occur in the cheap stuff and no name brands that have poor quality control

Let us know if you find the culprit as im curious, sorry to high jack but I couldn't help but respond to what that guy posted
Well you don't see too many new parts to see defects in, so.... whatever.


Bullshit, you'll break a stud before you bolt a flat rotor so hard between a flat hub and a flat wheel, that it warps the rotor area totally outside the clamped area. Impact to your hears content, it's how every wheel in the world is installed. Equal torque is the main point.
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Old 01-04-2020, 12:36 PM   #47
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Quote:
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Steering wheel and shaft are solid. Both of the ball joints look very old. Replacing those tomorrow. Today I noticed that there is some up and down play on the steering rack shaft on the driver side. Not sure if there should be any play there or if that could be the culprit.
You mean play in the inner tie-rod? No, it should be tighter than shit, no clicks or movement when you force (even with a pry-bar) against ballljoints of any type. it can help to set it on jackstands with the wheels an inch or two off the floor, and put a big bar under the wheel, to pry and jiggle stuff around. Sometimes this method quickly shows very bad components that looked fine with a hand wiggle test. Put a bar between knuckles and arms, bushings, or anything else suspect, each direction.

An inner tie rod should, at least almost, stay pointed at any direction you stick it, without an outer on it. If it can't hold it's own weight it's really too loose.
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Old 01-04-2020, 03:25 PM   #48
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You mean play in the inner tie-rod? No, it should be tighter than shit, no clicks or movement when you force (even with a pry-bar) against ballljoints of any type. it can help to set it on jackstands with the wheels an inch or two off the floor, and put a big bar under the wheel, to pry and jiggle stuff around. Sometimes this method quickly shows very bad components that looked fine with a hand wiggle test. Put a bar between knuckles and arms, bushings, or anything else suspect, each direction.

An inner tie rod should, at least almost, stay pointed at any direction you stick it, without an outer on it. If it can't hold it's own weight it's really too loose.
I’m taking about the steering rack shaft that the inner tie rod connects to. The actually rack gear in the steering rack. It has minor up and down movement on the driver side. The inner and outer tie rods themselves are brand new and have no play.
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Old 01-04-2020, 05:20 PM   #49
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I’m taking about the steering rack shaft that the inner tie rod connects to. The actually rack gear in the steering rack. It has minor up and down movement on the driver side. The inner and outer tie rods themselves are brand new and have no play.
I'm sure there's an axial play spec in the FSM. I'd be a lot more worried about end play. It's really not that sturdy in directions it's not pushing or pulling, they also flex a lot when you do inner tie rods.
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Old 01-04-2020, 05:28 PM   #50
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Well, I think I may have found the issue. I pulled the hubs and the driver side hubs wheel bearing is so bad, the inner ring is about to fall out. Unfortunately I have ABS hubs, so I can’t replace the bearings. So I am currently in search for some non-ABS hubs and hopefully this should fix my problem.
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Old 01-04-2020, 08:03 PM   #51
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Well, I think I may have found the issue. I pulled the hubs and the driver side hubs wheel bearing is so bad, the inner ring is about to fall out. Unfortunately I have ABS hubs, so I can’t replace the bearings. So I am currently in search for some non-ABS hubs and hopefully this should fix my problem.
So like, you have an abs car?
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Old 01-04-2020, 10:36 PM   #52
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So like, you have an abs car?
It may have been at some point. But when I got the car the sensors were cut and it had no abs block.
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Old 01-06-2020, 03:48 PM   #53
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Just buy some hubs man, be a good excuse to do a 5 lug swap.

Also i did think of one other thing no one has suggested: the lca rubber bushing, where it mounts to the engine subframe.

Mechanicalmoron you get equal torque by using a torque wrench or torque stick with an impact. If you just use a socket and impact you wont get equal torque. Thus being the numbro uno of premature warped rotors...unequal torque.
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Old 01-06-2020, 03:58 PM   #54
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Just buy some hubs man, be a good excuse to do a 5 lug swap.

Also i did think of one other thing no one has suggested: the lca rubber bushing, where it mounts to the engine subframe.

Mechanicalmoron you get equal torque by using a torque wrench or torque stick with an impact. If you just use a socket and impact you wont get equal torque. Thus being the numbro uno of premature warped rotors...unequal torque.
I found a good deal on new OEM S14 hubs and used S14 spindles. And I’ll be getting the GKTech LCAs with the S14 ball joint. I would do a 5 lug swap if I didn’t just buy new wheels and tires....
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Old 01-06-2020, 04:05 PM   #55
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Cool man, sounds like you found the issue.

Btw S14 hub nut torque is different than an S13.
S14 torque 152-210 ft lbs

Also if they are cheap ass hubs, you should take the bearings apart and repack with good grease

Check this link if you need more info on hubs:
https://motoiq.com/project-silvia-th...gs-like-i-did/
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Old 01-06-2020, 04:23 PM   #56
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Cool man, sounds like you found the issue.

Btw S14 hub nut torque is different than an S13.
S14 torque 152-210 ft lbs

Also if they are cheap ass hubs, you should take the bearings apart and repack with good grease

Check this link if you need more info on hubs:
https://motoiq.com/project-silvia-th...gs-like-i-did/
Thanks for the info! They are Nissan OEM hubs so I’d expect them to be good.
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Old 01-06-2020, 08:16 PM   #57
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Just buy some hubs man, be a good excuse to do a 5 lug swap.

Also i did think of one other thing no one has suggested: the lca rubber bushing, where it mounts to the engine subframe.

Mechanicalmoron you get equal torque by using a torque wrench or torque stick with an impact. If you just use a socket and impact you wont get equal torque. Thus being the numbro uno of premature warped rotors...unequal torque.
The thing is, you've never used any of these tools.

Overheating rotors warps them, stopping them hot so the pad insulates one spot warps them. Installing wheels does not warp them, what kind of fucking cheese-grade yugo do you have?
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Old 01-06-2020, 08:54 PM   #58
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This is not a discussion about brakes and how or how they cannot get warped. Please create a new thread elsewhere if it is that important.
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Old 02-05-2020, 03:50 PM   #59
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So I have replaced the front lower control arms with the GKTech ones. New ball joints, new wheel bearings, sway bar end links. Fresh alignment. For one day the shake went away. And now it seems like it came back. Not as bad as it before. But it is noticeable. Not sure what else it could be. Unless the cross member is bent or cracked or if it’s a steering rack issue.
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Old 02-07-2020, 10:00 PM   #60
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Put a big rancho steering damper on it and tell the customer you had to flash the stabilitrac module.
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