General politics discussion. Keep it civil.

[Antihero983]

He went back on the whole minimum mandatory sentencing thing though, surprising absolutely no one.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by deolio

I like that he undid a lot of Trump's bullshit executive orders in regards to immigration, the environment, and equality and that someone has finally taken charge of the response to Covid.

I'd like to understand how you came to that conclusion. (respectfully)

We have more "Children in Cages" with a huge boarder crisis that's being ignored. There have been no immigration or visa reform.

Environment - okay, we'll have to disagree on the policies.

Equality? Only thing I can think of was opening trans-people in the military. Trump after all is the first president to be elected that supported Gay-Marriage. He also has the best track-record for economic improvements of all minority groups.

Covid? What has Biden done? The vaccine was already well underway.

I do agree Trump's handling was appalling, but likely for different reasons. These mini-dictator fascist Governors should never in a million years been aloud to trample on people's constitutional rights. There is no clause in the Constitution that states "...unless we panic".

A big issue I would hope we all can agree on, since it hurts everyone, is the Media's refusal to play hardball with this administration. The Pipeline shutdown has been devastating and the Admin's response simply unreal. This was practically covered up for half a week by the Media.

Millions of American's unable to get gasoline because of foreign hackers and what's the admin's response? "It's a private matter and up to them if they want to pay the ransom". A ransom that they did pay to get the line running again!

The one's most impacted are also going to be the marginalized groups the DNC so regularly champions. The rich can all work remote or drive their Teslas. While the poor single minority trans-mothers who can only afford to put $10 in their tank have to drive to their minimum wage jobs or be fired.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Equality? Only thing I can think of was opening trans-people in the military. Trump after all is the first president to be elected that supported Gay-Marriage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA-cSCfPrbk

May 9, 2012, Obama supports same-sex marriage.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by mav1178

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA-cSCfPrbk

May 9, 2012, Obama supports same-sex marriage.

Exactly. Halfway into his second term.

He was originally against it.

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...-gay-marriage/

In August 2008, he told Southern California megachurch Pastor Rick Warren his definition of marriage: "I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman. Now, for me as a Christian, it is also a sacred union. God's in the mix."

[mrturboextreme]

Originally Posted by Corbic

is the Media's refusal to play hardball with this administration.

This x1000000.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Exactly. Halfway into his second term.

He was originally against it.

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...-gay-marriage/

But you said Trump was the first president to be elected to be supporting gay marriage...

so what, Obama was appointed? or were you trying to say that Trump was the first president to take a position supporting gay marriage prior to his election win?

for purposes of these discussions it's helpful to be accurate. Also, 2012 was the middle of the election year, not halfway into his second term

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by mav1178

But you said Trump was the first president to be elected to be supporting gay marriage...

so what, Obama was appointed? or were you trying to say that Trump was the first president to take a position supporting gay marriage prior to his election win?

for purposes of these discussions it's helpful to be accurate. Also, 2012 was the middle of the election year, not halfway into his second term

However you want to spin it. Trump ran on being Pro-Gay Marriage. Obama did a hard 180 after having already been elected President. The Clintons and Biden where certainly Anti-Gay Marriage all through the 90's and early 2000's.

Here you have articles with Trump's openly prop gay stance back in 2000.

https://getoutspoken.com/fact-check/...ate-gay-rights

https://thepostmillennial.com/trump-...nt-in-history/

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Corbic

However you want to spin it.

I'm not spinning anything.. you said Trump was the first elected president to be for gay marriage. Tell me I'm reading what you wrote wrong.

Again, if you are trying to say that he was for this issue before being elected, then yes you are correct. But as is the case with your argument about Nismo parts being a scam, you need to be clearer about what you post about instead of changing the argument halfway through to suit your justification.

GT-R and GTS-T tension rods are not the same part number.

First elected president for gay marrage and first president to run on a gay marriage platform are not the same.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by Future240

We a few months in. What yall think of the potus so far? yay? nay?

hes a fuckin idiot

[deolio]

Originally Posted by Corbic

I'd like to understand how you came to that conclusion. (respectfully)

By looking at the numbers. The dozen or so executive orders he's signed/reversed in regards to immigration.

Originally Posted by Corbic

Equality? Only thing I can think of was opening trans-people in the military.

I meant equity. Yes, that along with 9 other orders/reversals.

Originally Posted by Corbic

Covid? What has Biden done? The vaccine was already well underway.

15 orders/reversals dealing with rona.

I didn't say he'd necessarily been doing a good job. I mostly just enjoy the reversals. And ending the federal use of private prisons is huge. Everything else all I see are dollar signs.

Originally Posted by Corbic

Millions of American's unable to get gasoline because of foreign hackers and what's the admin's response? "It's a private matter and up to them if they want to pay the ransom". A ransom that they did pay to get the line running again!

Alarming that hackers can fuck with such an important part of infrastructure, but are you actually asking for the government to meddle in a private company's affairs orrrr????

[ixfxi]

entering the US from south of the border = OK

cubans seeking asylum, floating into the US = NOT OK

at this point, anyone pro-biden is brain dead

[Future240]

I do not know why the illegal immigrant is such a huge issue. The rest of the world has super tough immigration laws. Just try to go legally live in England. They literally have a job list of qualifications you must have unless you marry someone there.

The truth is we cannot take everyone who is seeking asylum no matter where they are from.

Change the rules so people who are born here are only citizens if their parents are. Create family detention centers. Hold people together until they are deported.

Punish the companies who hire illegals for those shit wages. There are ways just need leaders with the balls to do it.

[mrturboextreme]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

entering the US from south of the border = OK

cubans seeking asylum, floating into the US = NOT OK

at this point, anyone pro-biden is brain dead

That is because Cuban's historically have voted more conservative after gaining citizenship.

[ixfxi]

Never thought I'd see people clinging to (and falling from) an aircraft until today.

Intense.

You know you've fucked up when mainstream media is talking bad about the current administration.

[deolio]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

You know you've fucked up when mainstream media is talking bad about the current administration.

Seems like that's been the SOP for the last 20 years...

Which coincides with the start of the war in Afghanistan...

I'm amazed they actually pulled out tbh. Figured we'd be there as long as the war machine keeps printing money.

I'm glad they're stymying the bleeding, but he realist in me is concerned about billions of dollars of weapons falling into the hands of people with decades of pent-up rage. Hope those humvee's have lojack.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Did we even have a chance after 1978? We supported the anti-People's-Democratic-Party-of-Afghanistan mujahideen through the Pakistani intelligence agency, Russia supported the PDPA openly, and the PDPA fought against itself. Then Russia invaded and bolstered the PDPA and we, along with Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and China, supported the mujahideen for nearly 13 years.

Then there was a period where the mujahideen factions all fought each other until the Pakistan-taught Taliban filled the power vacuum and forced Afghanistan practically back to the dark ages. Then the Northern Alliance tried fighting them, doing fairly well, until Pakistan assisted the Taliban with thousands of Pakistani reinforcements. Then we invaded, Bin Laden went to friendly Pakistan, and we got stuck in the quagmire.

The whole fucking thing was doomed from the start. The country yo-yo'd between conservative and liberal governments for the last three centuries... how exactly was our occupation supposed to change that?

Once again, US foreign policy stoked the fires. 20 years ago, Bush started it. Obama continued it. Trump signed a treaty with the Taliban and said, "I really believe the Taliban wants to do something to show we're not all wasting time. If bad things happen, we'll go back with a force like no-one's ever seen." (Except the Taliban saw pretty much the biggest force possible, 19 years earlier) Then Biden made good on that treaty and the right's all like, "what the fuck, dude?" What the fuck right back.

[deolio]

No chance at all. Can't kill an ideology with a gun, especially radicals. That's like trying to put a fire out with gasoline.

But then again the point wasn't really to win a war, it was just an excuse to have another foothold in the Middle East. They must have a new target on their radar.

[KA24DESOneThree]

China and Russia. Maybe Iran, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Mozambique. Gotta make sure the Saudis have weapons to use as a "stabilization force" in the region. Gotta make sure Chinese and Russian PMCs (which are never fully removed from their governments, which had entanglements with our own government, and one of which [Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps] built at least eleven cities in China and still controls ten) don't start completely owning ground combat in Africa.

The less we spend on fuel, the more we can spend on server farms, electricity, and outsourcing of combat to PMCs of our own.

Note that I do not support this in the slightest. I don't want us to have PMCs or a presence in any nations other than our own.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by Future240

It is going to get worst. Now they will have a full for year to say how Biden's actions are going to [insert radical nonsense].

Originally Posted by Future240

This is a special kind of stupid.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep...-against-biden

^ Posted back in January, ironic that the irony is actually starting to ring true. 8/31 is right around the corner and this dimwit had & continues to have no plan.

impeachment is too complex, he's going to step down and hand over the wheel to the next dimwit in line.

so... who PROUDLY wants to saw their "ridin with biden" ?

[KA24DESOneThree]

His plan seems to be the "American Plan:" drone strike a populace into thinking, "hey, at least the Taliban won't execute us without looking us in the face first."

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

His plan seems to be the "Obama Plan:" drone strike a populace into thinking, "hey, at least the Taliban won't execute us without looking us in the face first."

Fixed that for you.

This was the Obama era strategy. Just kill everyone with Drones so we don't have to have bad PR from dead Americans and don't have to solve the "GITMO" question.

Lets just bomb the piss out of Libya and Syria and claim "mission accomplished" while creating the greatest humanitarian disasters of the 21st century. But hey, he got a Nobel Piece Prize! Never mind the actual open air slave markets now in Libya - BLACK LIVES MATTER!

The Afghan government was never going to stand on it's own with enemies all around and internal. Iran, Pakistan and China all wanted the government to collapse. Over half of Afghanistan wanted the government to collapse.

This doesn't mean it wasn't worth propping up. Minimal funding and a presence of 2,500 troop - indefinitely - would have ensured stability and security.

Kevin "But the war was 20 years and will never end!!"

And what?

Korean war is still raging 70 years later. We still have troops in Germany and Japan almost 80 years later. We still have troops in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia 30 years later. We have troops all over the world defending out interests and blocking the interests of others.

Staying in Afghanistan was never to achieve the rainbow and unicorn fart dreams of "equality, women rights, democracy and transgender for everyone!"

It was to strategically deny our enemies (China, Iran) trade routes and prevent a continued staging base of terrorist training (Al Qaeda, Pakistan).

A US presence boxes in Pakistan between us and India, and Iran between Us, and Iraq/us.

It blocked Russian intentions for influence of Central Asia.

Now we basically just made the Taliban, ISIS/Al Qaeda stronger then ever, helped build turn key infrastructure for China to begin strip mining Afghanistan and linking up for land-based trade with Iran. (Which the US Navy can't block)

[KA24DESOneThree]

Bring every servicemember home. Negotiate deals based not on the length and girth of our barrels but rather on the strength and variety of our economy.

Why do our soldiers have to die? Why do we have to spend our tax dollars propping up poorly-managed contracts? You want to project strength and influence geopolitics but our military is fucking HORRIBLE at it- billions upon billions just burn up and burn out.

Our defense contractors are jokes. F-22? F-35? USS Ford? Littoral combat ship?

Stop pissing away our money for short-term geopolitical gains in places we don't understand. For all of the dumbass things Trump said, he was right about us constantly spending our money on things that did not have an appropriate ROI.

We should probably stop striking Som4lia as well.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Bring every servicemember home.

What are you, five?

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Negotiate deals based not on the length and girth of our barrels but rather on the strength and variety of our economy.

This makes no sense and shows you utter nativity. This reeks of 1930's appeasement. "Dear Taliban, Please don't help Osama attack the WTC - here is $1 million dollars. PS, please don't use this money to fund terrorism"

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Why do our soldiers have to die?

When's the last time we had a combat death in Germany, Serbia, Ukraine, Poland, Norway, France, England, Scotland, Japan, Guam, South Korea, Philippines, etc? Last one in Afghanstan was 18 months ago - until we decided to pullout and use our economic influence to hope the Taliban would provide security (like you're suggesting). Didn't work out.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Why do we have to spend our tax dollars propping up poorly-managed contracts?

Because you want to be the fucking apex predator of the world. If you don't, pack your shit and move to Ecuador or Guatemala. That's the difference.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

You want to project strength and influence geopolitics but our military is fucking HORRIBLE at it- billions upon billions just burn up and burn out.

Most likely some of the most productive spending our government actually does. People fail to remember that much of that is spent within the US Industrial complex fueling good paying American jobs while also developing technology that quickly permeates into other commercial industries.

The Internet, GPS, Digital Communication - directly came from military spending. Then we have the other tangibles like turbo-jet development, vertical flight development (helicopters), aerospace - on and on.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Our defense contractors are jokes. F-22? F-35? USS Ford? Littoral combat ship?

Wow, you know some names - and what's so funny?

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Stop pissing away our money for short-term geopolitical gains

Yes, 90 years is a "short-term" gain.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

in places we don't understand. For all of the dumbass things Trump said, he was right about us constantly spending our money on things that did not have an appropriate ROI.

Yes, burn the house down because you don't want to pay the utility bill.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

We should probably stop striking Som4lia as well.

Fun idea until either a mass casualty terrorist attack originates from Somalia or they continue to disrupt shipping lanes to the point that we see an impact on international trade.

This is how we got WTC - 9/11. Clinton failed to respond to the growing Islamic threat because he was to focused on the short-term and didn't want to rock the boat. The Alphabets where to busy chasing "domestic terrorists" and pushing oral sex in school to worry about some embassy bombings overseas.

I see Biden quickly moving to make the same mistake again. All this rhetoric about white nationalists and Trump insurgences. Meanwhile every gain we've made in the last 20 years has vaporized in the last 6 months.

China literally invades HK and breaks the 50 year two state agreement - nothing. Saudi Arabia totally chops some dude up - Biden yells at Trump - gets elected - NOTHING.

Putin poisons some dude - BAN AMMO!!!! SANCTION RUSSHAAAAA

[KA24DESOneThree]

Clinton failed to respond to the growing Islamic threat that Bush before him, and Reagan before him, had stoked the fires of? What exactly was he supposed to do, send more Tomahawks into hospitals?

Do you really think that we didn't reap what we had sown by spreading discord around the ME for most of the previous century? I went through the United States' history there and the strings it pulled, the parties it helped and hurt previously. We set ourselves up for 9/11 and we're likely going to be setting ourselves up for another large-scale terrorist threat by simply thinking that we can kill our way out of this problem.

You can't kill ideas. We saw that with the explosive growth of ISIS and the continued issues stemming from the Arab Spring a decade ago. We see it in widespread support for sharia law. We see it from the unwelcome failure of drawing borders in the sand without an understanding of tribes and religious sects.

We were handed OBL and we created a two-pronged war instead. Are you really so naive to think that the Taliban, educated in Pakistani madrassas, could be defeated as long as those madrassas existed? Do you really think the ISI wasn't playing both sides?

The United States is not a fucking apex predator. The country wasn't founded on that ideal, far from it. Re-read the Declaration of Independence and the Federalist Papers- particularly John Jay in Federalist Paper 4.

Personally, I don't really want my tax dollars to go through a level of absurd profit to pay other people for mediocre work. And yet... that's what we get, whether it's from the military's inability to make good decisions or from the defense contractors' greed.

We're now seeing the chinks in the armor of the military-industrial complex. We're now seeing that it is no longer the innovation driver that it once was.

If you don't know what's funny about the F-22, F-35, USS Ford, and the LTC, you're part of the problem, and your ignorance compounds.

PS- Is it freedom at home and not abroad? Tyranny for thee and not for me? Do you want an M1151 with an M2 manned by a 19-year-old from Bumfuck, Idaho at the end of your street, or do you only want it in countries we're trying to, uh, spread peace to?

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

Never thought I'd see people clinging to (and falling from) an aircraft until today.

Aside from the movie Scarface, I never thought I'd see a body being hung from a noose attached to a US military helicopter.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Clinton failed to respond to the growing Islamic threat that Bush before him, and Reagan before him, had stoked the fires of?

https://www.latimes.com/nation/natio...801-story.html

First WTC attack happened in February 1993 after GWB was out of office.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Do you really think that we didn't reap what we had sown by spreading discord around the ME for most of the previous century?

Are Middle Easterners incapable of taking responsibility for their own actions?

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

You can't kill ideas.

Actually it's retarded easy to do. Just look at the US. We went from "Don't Ask - Don't Tell" and "Marriage is a Man and a Women" in 2008 to full blown paying for sexual transitions in the military, gay marriage and denying the very concept of "men" and "women" not even 20 years later.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

We saw that with the explosive growth of ISIS and the continued issues stemming from the Arab Spring a decade ago.

Unrelated issues that show you don't understand the issue.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

We see it in widespread support for sharia law.

Well when one side wants to marry you kids off at 15 and the other wants to pump them full of hormones so they can choose their own gender when they are 4....

Again, you don't understand WHY people would support sharia law.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

We see it from the unwelcome failure of drawing borders in the sand without an understanding of tribes and religious sects.

None of us got to pick the boards in the United States - I don't see us killing one another. That's a hand waiving excuse.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

The United States is not a fucking apex predator. The country wasn't founded on that ideal, far from it. Re-read the Declaration of Independence and the Federalist Papers- particularly John Jay in Federalist Paper 4.

Geo-Politics and the 19th Century created the Apex Predator known as the USA. The fact that you waste your life restoring novelties for rich people means you are 100% benefiting from that.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Personally, I don't really want my tax dollars to go through a level of absurd profit to pay other people for mediocre work.

I'm glad we agree we should dismantle Government Unions and Public Education. That's not what we're discussion however.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

And yet... that's what we get, whether it's from the military's inability to make good decisions or from the defense contractors' greed.

You again are showing ignorance. Defense Contractors are not "Greedy". They follow the FAR and DFAR and all applicable government contracting laws. If you are concerned about the cost of something, take it up with the acquisition departments and requisition teams working for the Federal Government agencies.

What "poor decisions" did the US Military make? Almost every failure is a direct response to the commands of our elected officials. Whether that's dismantlement the Iraqi Government/Military, murdering Qaddafi or running away from Afghanistan. They can only do as well as the plan lets them.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

We're now seeing the chinks in the armor of the military-industrial complex. We're now seeing that it is no longer the innovation driver that it once was.

Based on what?

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

If you don't know what's funny about the F-22, F-35, USS Ford, and the LTC, you're part of the problem, and your ignorance compounds.

The problem is, I'm not the one that's ignorant on those programs. So again, what's so funny?

Har har har, the Air-Force spent millions on F-22s and is now shit canning them?

Yeah - life moves on. It was an air-superiority fighter who's single role was to shoot down Russian Fighter Jets. It was designed in the 1980's. Everything about it is now 30 years old and its design is not capable of integrating new technology. It's stealth silhouette is no longer competitive. It's payload is minuscule and it's clear the Russians and Chinese are nowhere near parity.

Even if the Russians adopt the SU-57, and even if the SU-57 is on par- they are likely to struggle to field 20 Aircraft in the next 20 years. Further more, US Pilots get more flight time IN TRAINING then most of our enemies' pilots get in their entire career.

So again, what is so funny? I'm shocked you're not laughing about the F-15X contract and that we're buying new "50 year old" fighters.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

PS- Is it freedom at home and not abroad? Tyranny for thee and not for me?

You posting this from your Chinese made phone or computer for irony points?

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Do you want an M1151 with an M2 manned by a 19-year-old from Bumfuck, Idaho at the end of your street, or do you only want it in countries we're trying to, uh, spread peace to?

1. Yes, if my choice is being murdered by roving bands of insurgence, gangs and rebels. I think everyone would prefer that.

2. This drips with the typical California arrogance here. Yes, soldiers are just to gosh damn dumb trigger happy rednecks from those dumb garbage states. herpa derp.

Haven't you seen the latest Army Propaganda? Shouldn't your statement read...

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Do you want an M1151 with an M2 manned by a 19-year-old gender-fluid non-binary latinex with two mothers from San Francisco at the end of your street, or do you only want it in countries we're trying to, uh, spread social justice to?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

Aside from the movie Scarface, I never thought I'd see a body being hung from a noose attached to a US military helicopter.

What about all the service dogs they just left in travel cages at the airport.

[KA24DESOneThree]

You lack substance. You're Coke Zero- all the flavor, none of the calories.

History has shown, time and time again, that you're wrong, that you're on the side of the losers. You deflect and evade, blame things on imaginary enemies, seek scapegoats. You laud those who should not be lauded, simply because they wear uniforms.

You don't understand how connected everything is, that actions beget actions beget actions. We're still paying the price for decisions made in the nineteenth century.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

You lack substance. You're Coke Zero- all the flavor, none of the calories.

History has shown, time and time again, that you're wrong, that you're on the side of the losers. You deflect and evade, blame things on imaginary enemies, seek scapegoats. You laud those who should not be lauded, simply because they wear uniforms.

You don't understand how connected everything is, that actions beget actions beget actions. We're still paying the price for decisions made in the nineteenth century.

When in doubt lob insults and run away. If the topic is to complicated for you to explain, then you just don't understand it well enough to explain it.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

You lack substance. You're Coke Zero- all the flavor, none of the calories.

History has shown, time and time again, that you're wrong, that you're on the side of the losers. You deflect and evade, blame things on imaginary enemies, seek scapegoats. You laud those who should not be lauded, simply because they wear uniforms.

You don't understand how connected everything is, that actions beget actions beget actions. We're still paying the price for decisions made in the nineteenth century.

not really, he made a lot of points and you just had no response other than to try to put him down. you've said numerous times that you should just walk away instead of waste your time replying. no ones putting a gun to your head for you to post