Prop 8 yes or no

[murda-c]

What about the fact that marriage isn't defined by any one religion, it is something that people do all over the world with or without religion.

I think that with gay couple should be given legal marriages, or marriage should be abolished from the law and it should be civil unions only.


If marriage is truly a religious institution only, it doesn't need to be a legal status.

[luftrofl]

My favorite part about the pro-prop 8 argument is how gay marriage is now being imposed upon us and being taught in public schools! It's like OMFG THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE OUR CHILDREN GAY WTF, which is funny but they're dead serious

[spngr311]

Traditional marriage is defined as a union between a man and a woman. That is just the way it has been. Don't change the definition of marriage, but let civil unions exist that have the same legal rights and allow gays to have civil unions. By using the word "civil" you are implying that this is a legal situation enforced by the government without and religious implications. It's really just semantics - and you can use the concept to circumvent the religious right.

[coreansurfer]

I'm a christian, and I WILL VOTE NO on prop 8.

Church and state should always be separate.

I view this as a government control issue, they should NEVER be able to say who can or can't get married.

[vodka2]

Vote no! ! ! ! ! !

[azndoc]

Seriously if two people are in love and feel that having a piece of paper stating that they are in love and to make it a legal binding contract between the two of them is what they want.

Who are we to stop them.

Let them be.

I don't make more or less money and it doesn't affect me.

I mean shit if kevin and dook want to go off and get married who are we to stop them.

[revat619]

First off, yes i'm a Christian so you already know that i'm voting yes. I couldn't care less about your opinion on my religion so dont even bother. I believe what i believe, so deal with it. This DOES NOT mean however that i HATE gay people. Thats stupid. I believe homosexuality is wrong, but i dont hate the people. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people giving Christians a bad wrap in the media. Please understand that hateful speech and all that other nonsense is not what Christianity is about.

oh and please dont equate this to the black civil rights movement. It is NOT the same thing.

[ZipTiedCoupe]

+1 Revat....


200 post club!

[sac]

I voted no!! however.. i agree with spngr311.. They shouldnt change the meaning of the word marriage. They should just recognize the life long commitment these two people have made to each other. Give them the tax breaks, let them co sign on loans, let them adopt children, etc..

[ESmorz]

Originally Posted by spngr311

I don't think gay "marriage" should exist. Marriage is defined by religion - that would be a case of the state forcing a religion to change its beliefs. However, I think there needs to be a legal gay civil union so that homosexuals are afforded the same rights as straight couples in the eyes of the government. This would allow gay couples to adopt children (which is fine because there are too many children that are not helped), have insurance, and other legal rights. I didn't vote in the poll because I didn't agree with either.

You don't have to have a "religious wedding"

You can just as easily get a judge to do it. Therefore bypassing any aspect of religion

Dumb cunts.

Every religion has their own way of doing the whole marriage deal, but in the end it has to be sanctified by the government, there are many ways to go about it.

If Christianity wants to ban gay marriage they can take their "beliefs" and do so. Just stay the fuck out of peoples lives with your ignorant fucking views. Every day I lose more and more faith in humanity. We truly deserve every bit of whats coming to us.

:b ash:

[spoolandslide]

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

Everyone deserves the right to be happy. If that happens to be with someone of the same gender, then so be it.

Yay for Ellen and Portia!!

I would start to believe in god if they moved in next door to me.

Religion is bullshit. - Scopes Trial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Marrige is bullshit. - http://www.bsos.umd.edu/socy/vannema...ds/divorce.jpg
Old people are bullshit. http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...ixsix/poop.jpg

[Flipzide]

Oh what a great topic considering the whole shitload of prop 8 commercials i have to watch on tv.

I currently hold conservative standards (Catholic, but not practicing) and I personally don't agree with the whole same sex marriage thing.

But the thing is, how can it hurt me on a level that it'll negatively impact my life? The more I thought about it, the more I became politically relaxed about the whole thing. Other people's decisions to love someone of the same sex does not affect me in anyway. If it works out for them, kudos!

Above all else, I believe in separation of "church and state". Voting yes to ban gay marriages and impose a belief that stems from a religion on someone who doesn't believe in the same thing is stupid.

What cracks me up even further is the Prop 8 ads on tv. The ones with the most sense and justification are the Vote No on Prop 8 and the most rediculous ones are the Vote Yes on Prop 8.

I remember seeing one yesterday with a little girl talking to her mom about what she learned in school today and how that a prince can marry a prince and that she could marry a princess.

What really had me laughing my ass off is when I saw it for the second time, the little girls voice was DUBBED over. BAHAHAHAHHA.

Anyway this is just my opinion and it by no means criticizes anyone else... well maybe except the idiot who decided to make the pro-prop 8 commercials unbelievable.

[spoolandslide]

Originally Posted by Flipzide

.

I currently hold conservative standards (Catholic, but not practicing) and I personally don't agree with the whole same sex marriage thing.

But the thing is, how can it hurt me on a level that it'll negatively impact my life? The more I thought about it, the more I became politically relaxed about the whole thing. Other people's decisions to love someone of the same sex does not affect me in anyway. If it works out for them, kudos!

A

Exactly my thoughts, the church should have nothing to do with the laws.

If it doesn't hurt you then you shouldn't give a shit. Right, or else you would also care about the living conditions of most of your fellow humans across the world.

[ESmorz]

I think Christianity should try and focus on trying to stop people from jerking off, since that is just as much of a sin. Or how about lying, or fucking your neighbors wife who is protected by that "oh so holy sanctity of marriage".

The biggest issue here is not whether you think it's right or not because of your religion. It has everything to do with government control. Put your fucking bible down and think about the people. How would you feel if the only person you have ever loved and shared your entire life with died and you didn't get the same compensation as other people who had the RIGHT to marry. Just because you happen to like the wiener or axe wound.

Anyone who votes yes... I pity you. I truly do.

[irax]

"Marriage" Is 100% religious in its origins.
Show me a religion where Homosexuality is okay, then homosexual marriage is okay.
Because we as HUMANS should respect other peoples religions.

Oh and show me where 'Separation of Church and state' is part of the constitution.
Another statement from a founding father that gets spun out of context >.>


I feel instead of letting Homosexuals getting the title of Married, they should expand common law partner rights and liberties to the same of marriage. That way, the Gay people actually get what they deserve as a human, and religious zealots won't feel oppressed and won't think that society is getting more lewd.

[SilviaDoctrine]

I vote "Yes" only because it is only opening a can of worms. I have nothing against homosexuals, but I am a conservatist and I believe we should not stray from traditional values and customs.

[soreballz]

Originally Posted by SilviaDoctrine

I vote "Yes" only because it is only opening a can of worms. I have nothing against homosexuals, but I am a conservatist and I believe we should not stray from traditional values and customs.

Can of worms? Oh, please explain. I'm sure many people would love for you to elaborate on this.



To the ignorant, close-minded fucks voting "Yes" on this... Why not let them? How does gay marriage affect YOU? Why should YOU care if gay people get married? Seriously, why not?
Don't say, "because it is wrong in the eyes of God", or some shit like that. That's a cop out answer.

[ZipTiedCoupe]

Elaborate on how its a cop out answer?

[revat619]

Originally Posted by ESmorz

I think Christianity should try and focus on trying to stop people from jerking off, since that is just as much of a sin. Or how about lying, or fucking your neighbors wife who is protected by that "oh so holy sanctity of marriage".

The biggest issue here is not whether you think it's right or not because of your religion. It has everything to do with government control. Put your fucking bible down and think about the people. How would you feel if the only person you have ever loved and shared your entire life with died and you didn't get the same compensation as other people who had the RIGHT to marry. Just because you happen to like the wiener or axe wound.

Anyone who votes yes... I pity you. I truly do.

just stop already. WE GET IT. You're bitter towards Christians....or should i say retards claiming to be Christians and lumping those of us who practice it legitimately in the same category. Ok.

It has everything to do with whether or not i think its right. What sense does that even make, dude. Seriously listen to what you're saying. "oh i think this is wrong, but i'm gonna vote the opposite because someone else (the government) thinks otherwise/doesnt have an opinion at all. i believe what i believe and i vote accordingly. Period.

You're totally entitled to your opinion of course but seriously, i cant stand the way you and a lot of people who are anti-religious go about it. You're all suuuuuuuuuper quick to give you're stance on something and your reasons why, but as soon as God is a reason for someone else (which is perfectly valid, based on your "everybody should do what they want theory") you guys come in with the "fuck yous" "you're a fucking idiot" , "you're an ignorant close minded fuck" the mocking of our religion, Jesus jokes etc......and all of it being entirely unprovoked.

For all the bitching you guys do about how offensive "Christians" are towards homosexuals and whatnot, you sure have no problem being offensive on here.

If some clown on the street claiming to be Christian says some really offensive stuff to you, i can understand flying off at the handle, but on a forum where we're asked if we're voting yes or no on a proposition and we give our reasons why, there's no need for that guys, seriously. Be an adult or at the very least, act like one.


oh and you can keep your pity, thanks.

[supportTHEezln]

Originally Posted by PhilthyS13

True, our country was founded by Christians. Christians such as the Puritans who fled Europe to escape persecution by other Christians. That is why we have the separation of church and state - to prevent one religion from imposing its views on others. This measure is about civil marriages. Religions that refuse to recognize gay marriage can continue to do so.

In college I used to work at a group home for boys. They all had heterosexual parents. I saw their files and what their parents did to them. The thing that messed them up the most was the fact that the very people who were supposed to protect them were the ones hurting them. Heterosexual parents have the capacity to abuse children just as much as homosexual parents.

Sexual orientation has nothing to do with how you raise children, you are apparently confusing pedophiles with homosexuals. Those are two very different things.


This is really about equal protection (meaning you can't treat one group differently from another). Yes, our country was founded on Christian principles. But it was also founded on slavery, an institution that was rationalized using those very same principles. Our society is constantly changing, and our Constitution changes with us. I don't think a return to 1787 is possible, feasible or even desirable.

Read this thread, and this is definitely the best post.

Why the fuck would anyone want to dictate to another person who they can marry?
Also saying the country is "founded" on Christian principles doesn't make it a fucking Christian state. That's like saying "Oh, they meant to say everyone must obey the Bible...but when drafting the Constitution they forgot."

[revat619]

Religions that refuse to recognize gay marriage can continue to do so.

Ummm WRONG.

If this happens, in the state of CA any church that refuses to do a homosexual marriage, can have their tax exempt status removed by the STATE and the minister that refuses to perform the ceremony can be arrested on charges of racial discrimination. Also, if a minister preaches on homosexuality, he can be arrested for hate speech.

That is FACT. Look it up. You wanna talk about separation of church and state....it doesnt get much worse than that. The state is going to tell my church what they can and can't do. THAT is outrageous. So if because the Bible says its wrong doesnt sit well with you, i'm sure you can understand why i would vote yes based on the aforementioned facts.

here's the thing, prop 8 isnt about rights. Its about the definition of a word. Homosexual couples have all the rights of a married heterosexual couple. Its called a civil union and they are all recognized in CA. They get all the tax breaks and all the other crap just like everybody else. EVERY employer recognizes civil unions.

These are all facts guys.

[irax]

Originally Posted by The Letter to Dansburry Baptist association, from Thomas Jefferson

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their "legislature" should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

so therefore it's against the law to make pro/against legislation. Separation of church and state is just a practice and not a law. The law as interpreted

prohibiting Congressional establishment of a religion over another religion through Law and protecting the right to free exercise of religion

And prop 8 is unconstitutional as it establishes one religion (or lack of religion) over others and would inhibit the free exercise of religion.

[drftmark]

I don't think gays should get married.

You can bring in all this "They are holding people back from being in love!!!"

Oh please, give me a break.

Next we will be voting if 5 year old gf and bf can get married because they love each other.

Or 5 year old gf/gf and bf/bf can get married lolololol

If they really need a piece of paper saying they love each other then they can go suck one....... or not.

[supportTHEezln]

Originally Posted by drftmark

I don't think gays should get married.

You can bring in all this "They are holding people back from being in love!!!"

Oh please, give me a break.

Next we will be voting if 5 year old gf and bf can get married because they love each other.

Or 5 year old gf/gf and bf/bf can get married lolololol

If they really need a piece of paper saying they love each other then they can go suck one....... or not.

This makes no sense.

And the argument of "They are holding peopleback from being in love" has not been brought up.

Two consenting adults getting married are just like two 5 year olds getting married. I totally get what you are saying. Great point. Can't argue against that.

[Rayne]

Originally Posted by irax

Oh and show me where 'Separation of Church and state' is part of the constitution.
Another statement from a founding father that gets spun out of context >.>

The whole "Separation of Church and State" is not specifically written in the Constitution as it seems you are implying. However the principle is derived from the first amendment of the Constitution.

Wikipedia: First Amendment

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

The interesting thing about the whole issue is how the principle came about despite it not being specifically written in the first amendment or the remainder of the constitution.

If my understanding is correct an individual needs to study case law/judicial opinions to see the connection. I am not going to get into it all, however read the following for more information.

Wikipedia: Separation of Church and State

Originally Posted by irax

I feel instead of letting Homosexuals getting the title of Married, they should expand common law partner rights and liberties to the same of marriage. That way, the Gay people actually get what they deserve as a human, and religious zealots won't feel oppressed and won't think that society is getting more lewd.

I will agree with you.

[spoolandslide]

Originally Posted by ZipTiedCoupe

Elaborate on how its a cop out answer?

Its a cop out answer because its such a narrow minded, ignorant, bullshit view.

Have you ever seen the world through the eyes of god? I think not my friend.

[jimmytango00]

Originally Posted by ZipTiedCoupe

Think about what it does to the children when they grow up.

what will it do to the children? tell me please im curious... there are plenty of straight parents who raise some fucked up children. My parents raised me catholic and taught me that marriage between a man and woman was the right thing to do, but hey guess what.....Im gay! and the whole thing about the teacher asking the child about mommy and mommy, the reason shit like that happens is because society is so fucking closed minded to the idea of homosexuality, if we were more open then shit like that wouldn't happen.

[irax]

Originally Posted by spoolandslide

Exactly my thoughts, the church should have nothing to do with the laws.

It's the other way around, the laws should have nothing to do with the church! If prop 8 passes(or doesn't pass I forgot which one it was) churches will lose tax exemption for even saying being Gay is a Sin.

What's worse is no one talks about the Scientologist views on homosexuality.

they fucking try to use electro shock therapy to get the gay out of you... if you want to start bashing a religion on its views of homosexuality least not forget the scilons.

[SilviaDoctrine]

Originally Posted by soreballz

Can of worms? Oh, please explain. I'm sure many people would love for you to elaborate on this.



To the ignorant, close-minded fucks voting "Yes" on this... Why not let them? How does gay marriage affect YOU? Why should YOU care if gay people get married? Seriously, why not?
Don't say, "because it is wrong in the eyes of God", or some shit like that. That's a cop out answer.

Lol I don't think were ignorant and close-minded. You are right, immediately it doesn't affect us. However in the long run, it does. I mean ever since we started to stray from the traditional values the U.S. was brought upon, society has taken a huge downturn. First we allow gay marriages, than what? Legalize prostitution? Legalize marijuana? All of them have just as many excuses as to why they should be legal. Does it make it right? no. Did the traditional system work for hundreds of years? yes. I believe gay marriage is a gateway subject to legalizing more things that will demoralize our country.

PLEASE NOTE, IF I SAID ANYTHING TO OFFEND ANYONE, I APOLOGIZE BEFOREHAND. ONLY MY PERSONAL BELIEF. ALSO I AM NOT ATTACKING ANYONE IN MY STATEMENTS, PEOPLE CHILL OUT AND LETS HAVE A CIVIL DISPUTE.

If that can't happen than this thread fails.

[ThatGuy]

^Prostitution and Maijuana are already legal in some places.

Segregation and hate are more demoralizing to our country then acceptance.

Too many people treat Gay like it's super AIDS. "OMG there's a Gay person on my street, now we're all gonna get it, and the world is going to open up and swallow us hole, then deliver us into Hell. It's all the Gay's fault!"

It's just silly. Live and let live people.