Mods please read carefully (lawsuit possible)

[g6civcx]

Mods, with all due respect, I am referencing this thread: http://zilvia.net/f/interior-exterio...ml#post3484044

I have been practising Intellectual Property law for more than five (5) years now. I am admitted to practise in the US, and I serve an an expert witness for the US government in many cases.


Like we were discussing in the other threads, I don't want to get into an in depth debate, but this is how it goes.

In order for you to be a "knock-off", you have to be stealing something that belongs to someone else. You can't steal something that belongs to the public domain.


Example of "knock-off":

A vendor selling anything automobile related, including seats, with the word "Bride" without licensing from Tee's Corp.

This is considered theft because Tee's Corp owns the trademark "Bride":

Word Mark BRIDE
Goods and Services IC 012. US 019 021 023 031 035 044. G & S: Parts and fittings of automobiles, namely, automobile seats
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 79009734
Filing Date December 20, 2004
Current Filing Basis 66A
Original Filing Basis 66A
Published for Opposition July 4, 2006
Registration Number 3194317
International Registration Number 0845923
Registration Date January 2, 2007
Owner (REGISTRANT) TEE'S CORPORATION CORPORATION JAPAN 1-11-1, Tokai-machi Tokai-city; Aichi 476-0015 JAPAN
Attorney of Record REINA KAKIMOTO
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE


Non-Example of "knock-off":

I don't want to single them out, and I use this as an example only.

The vendor sells a body kit called "Vertex Ridge".

This is not a "knock-off" because there is no intellectual property related to the phrase "Vertex Ridge". As far as I know, there isn't even a company called "Vertex USA". The parent company Car Make T&E is a Japanese company and I don't even know if they're registered to do business in the US.

I can't even license my product from Car Make T&E because T&E doesn't actually own any trademark. They have nothing for me to license.

We can discuss this more in depth if needed, but there is nothing for me to steal if T&E doesn't actually own the phrase I'm using.


This post: http://zilvia.net/f/interior-exterio...ml#post3484044


The problem for Zilvia: the site owner may actually be found an accessory or even liable if you let one vendor defame another with your explicit knowledge.

I understand you don't want to be an accessory to infringement, but you also don't want to be an accessory to defamation.

You know I clearly support dealing with real knockoff companies; if there were an unlicensed Bride vendor I'd be the first one to tell you to deal with it.

In this case; however, Vertex USA (if such a legal entity exists) has not shown that there is any infringement. If you guys let it go further Chaser may actually have a case against both Vertex USA and Zilvia for defamation, libel, slander, etc.


If you have any specific questions about IP please feel free to ask me. I'll ask some of the civil/criminal attorneys to comment and see how they feel.

[5pecialist]

Anything can be grounds for a lawsuit, really. Please don't sue me for saying this...

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by 5pecialist

Anything can be grounds for a lawsuit, really. Please don't sue me for saying this...

Having grounds for a lawsuit and actually have a case for conviction are different things.

Again this is directed at the mods so they are put on notice.

[Drift N Dragg]

I will talk to MrMeph .. and see if he will give West a Call ...

Just wanted to Post in here so you do not think it fell upon " Def " Ear's, as it has been said as of recently..

[S14DB]

Bona fides

[sidewaysil80]

how is it grounds for a lawsuit if I or a vendor says..."they copied that design from such and such" or "that product fits like shit" is that not within the rights of a consumer to voice their opinion? i just think this is getting SO blown out of proportion. since when is it illegal to call a product that was COPIED from another a "knock-off"?

[godrifttoday]

is this called reverse engineering?

[OptionZero]

I'm the crim specialist, I suppose, but unfortunately I can't offer too much insight. I deal exclusive with California jurisdictions and deal only with federal Constitutional law as it applies to California criminal law.

As far as I know, Zilvia is not "based" in California; Chaser is in Maryland. Vertex is in Socal.

I can only speculate as to federal criminal law, but given that we are exclusively dealing with speech, not conduct, it's hard to see any criminal liability for Zilvia's action (or rather, in-action?) The First Amendment means criminal statutes punishing speech have to be narrow, so you can get away with alot.

As far as the civil side (hardly ever deal with it), I see jurisdictional issues finding the owners of the respective websites and issues proving damages. We are, after all, dealing with Zilvia.net: only each thread gets hundreds of views, maybe a thousand or two views at best. Even if ChaserAero could make a prima facie that "Dat Vertex USA" 's posts meet the elements of defamation . . . I can't see them suffering enough that it's worth filing a law suit.

That's just the practical analysis I see.


FYI:
On the bottom of Vertex USA, it says "Copyright © 2000-2010 Vertex USA. All Rights Reserved."

I do not know if the hold an actual copyright.

[Om1kron]

Instead of practicing law, you should practice your fucking spelling and grammar. I don't work for Vertex, it was simply a joke, Dat from vertex got involved, thread title was modified. That's all that bothered me.

I don't care if you paid money to sell shit on this website, your prerogative, but don't mislead your customers into believing they're buying ORIGINAL parts...

Regardless if you want to jump in and try to offer your free advice to chaser so they can find a reason to pursue a dumb ass lawsuit with no proof of anything but your failed research and throw around "you're gunna get sued".

Real big on your part, nobody was defaming anyone.

Grow the fuck up.

[sidewaysil80]

^^^^^^^^^^^^i was trying to be nice...but you said what i was thinking

[Drift N Dragg]

Ok this is going a little to Far Now, Wayne.

A Concern was Brought up and a type of Liablity that might connect Zilvia.net with this was a concern by another member.

You are Right in one point, No one should lie about what they sell ..

I do not practice law, nor do I claim too. But something was brought up and it was attended too.

This is NOT the Rant section for you to shoot off your mouth about things you do not like .. Matter of Fact I do not Recall anyone asking for it.

This thread is NOT a debate!

Member's felt this needed to be addressed and it Was. So Get off your Short Pony and take some of your own advice and " Grow Up " ..

I am locking this, Other Moderators/Admins please feel free to chime in with additional information ..