The Future Automotive Thread

[ronmcdon]

I really like the camaro a lot.

I didn't like the looks of the previous gen save for the z28, but the current gen has grown on me. Even if it didn't look great, I would be OK with the car given the stock performance of the ss 1le, zl 1, and z1 1le, and that I would prefer to keep the car as close to stock as possible.

Really hoping to trade in my 12 mustang boss for either a grand sport corvette or camaro zl 1this year or the next. Really liking the fact that it seems like not only is there no adm but under msrp prices are possible.

I just don't see the gt350 offering much below msrp pricing if it isn't still offered at adm pricing from most dealers. It is the best looking car but I don't value how good a car looks as much as how good a deal it is performance wise.

Only thing I really dislike about the camaro is visibility as I think that would make it unpleasant for street driving. As far as the Grand Sport goes I wish it would come with better seats standard and not nickle and dime customers for the nicer buckets.

[dr_]

It's a shame that Mazda sells such a minuscule volume of cars compared to Nissan and Toyota yet is miles ahead when it comes to delivering a car that is actually engaging to drive. The 3 has is hands down the best car that can be had for around 20k new. It goes to show what a simplified lineup can allow a company to do.

+1 to Mazda for actually giving a damn about people who enjoy driving.

[ronmcdon]

I like the 3 a lot in terms of suspension setup and visual design. I just wish the next 3 would come with a more tune friendly engine and not a torsion beam rear suspension.

The only car I like more is the current civic hatchback turbo. It doesn't look as great, suspension setup is not on par with the Mazda 3. However I do like the engine and aftermarket support. Having owned a 08 civic hybrid for almost 10 years I've been impressed with how well the car has held up reliability wise. If one can bring themselves to afford the current Si or CTR, live with the polarizing way it looks, I think one would be hard pressed to find a more well performing and practical daily driver.

As much as I really like Mazda, usually it's lack of a engine with more power or at least one where you can more easily tune for additional power that holds me back. I really hope the company would be more adventurous with performance cars in the future, but the same could be said for most Japanese companies today. Well maybe not Honda, at least they are making an effort, regardless of whether you like what they are doing.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

With all the talk of trends and segments and what does and doesn't sell why does everyone seem to ignore that we have a huge revival of RWD going on in America?

Charger
Challenger
300
Camaro
Corvette
Caprice/ss
ATS
CTS
CT6
Mustang


There's kind of a lot of RWD American cars right now and a good number of them are coupes.

So whats the beef?

There's even more that that. IS, GS, Q50, Q60, G70, G70, Stinger, etc etc. I haven't complained about the lack of RWD cars at all. I believe that I've even used the phrase renaissance while discussing the RWD car situation in this thread.

Originally Posted by mechanicalmoron

Seriously, right?

This is the future rwd coupes thread, and everyone's losing it over a meh four door fwd concept that looks like it rolled right out of 05.

The thing is, we've discussed every RWD coupe and sedan on the market currently ad nauseam. Try and count the number of posts Corbic has about the Mustang in this thread. lol

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

My point is really only that obviously rwd can and does sell despite the rhetoric to the contrary.

Again, I must be missing where people are actually saying there's no RWD cars in this thread. I don't think this thread would get to 362 pages and over 10,000 replies if there was no RWD cars to discuss.



This thread in general has really become about the auto industry in general, with an emphasis on RWD cars. And Mazda killed it at the TAS so that's what has been discussed. Plus, the implications of their new engine tech, which may actualy end up having an impact on some future RX.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

I like the 3 a lot in terms of suspension setup and visual design. I just wish the next 3 would come with a more tune friendly engine and not a torsion beam rear suspension.

The only car I like more is the current civic hatchback turbo. It doesn't look as great, suspension setup is not on par with the Mazda 3. However I do like the engine and aftermarket support. Having owned a 08 civic hybrid for almost 10 years I've been impressed with how well the car has held up reliability wise. If one can bring themselves to afford the current Si or CTR, live with the polarizing way it looks, I think one would be hard pressed to find a more well performing and practical daily driver.

As much as I really like Mazda, usually it's lack of a engine with more power or at least one where you can more easily tune for additional power that holds me back. I really hope the company would be more adventurous with performance cars in the future, but the same could be said for most Japanese companies today. Well maybe not Honda, at least they are making an effort, regardless of whether you like what they are doing.

There's no amount of power that can make me even remotely like the ascetics of the current Civic. Its the epitome of Boy-racer. It looks like a drawing on the back of a 12 year old boy's folder.

[ronmcdon]

Understandble. If I had valued exterior design over performance, I would get a new Mazda too.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

Understandble. If I had valued exterior design over performance, I would get a new Mazda too.

Yeah for me performance isn’t the most important aspect. I’d track a scar like that realistically 6 times a year...and I wouldn’t be expecting to win any national events. So the other 99.9% of he time I’d rather not drive around a car that looks like a child’s drawing.

[simmode1]

What's all this bitching and moaning about us discussing the Mazda 3? Yeah, it's not RWD, but it's worth taking note of it's design language and engine because these things make their way to a RWD car that we DO care about... like the Miata and RX line. Jesus Christ dear god, someone PLEASE hit the Miata with this design stick...

But since we are discussing the 3, it's a damn shame they aren't making the Mazdaspeed 3 anymore. That thing was such an underrated hoot. This new 3 could possibly clean up if they wanted to revive the turbo 3.

[exitspeed]

It just dawned on me that if the Vision concept does because a Mazda 9, it would probably have a Skyactiv-X Turbo engine like the 9. I'm all for a 310ft lb turbo sedan. It would have to be AWD too. That whole idea sounds like a perfect daily.

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

my dad owns a Solstice... interior sucks, cant stand it! too cramped and uncomfortable! also, ZERO trunk room... like none. good luck fitting a 6 pack back there, and im serious!

I hear what you're saying buddy, but I give ZERO shits about trunk space in a car like this. I think I need to get some seat time in one of these because DAYUM!!!

[exitspeed]

^ I’ve always loved those Sky’s. Haven’t looked into them modded. They look dope.

LA Auto Show is at the end of the month. That would be a good place to debut the Supra. Either there or Detroit.

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

^ I’ve always loved those Sky’s. Haven’t looked into them modded. They look dope.

I mean, dorki has a really valid point about their trunk space. Thats an engineering clusterfuck on GM's part. But the cramped interior & gripes about the clutch pedal just seem subjective to me. Of all these gripes, i never hear anyone complaining about the Redline's performance & i lurk on several of their FB groups. But for under $10k for the Redline, i think they're worth a look. Or hell, I'm seeing decent condition stock s13's & z32's listing for like $4k+ nowadays. The NA Sky & Solstice sell for that much. They've got some build potential too. Shit, you can probably grab a z33 for $4k too.

[exitspeed]

$10 for a a Respine you say??? Next year I’m getting something fun. Whether it’s a daily fun car like an ATS V or something else, I’m not sure.

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

$10 for a a Respine you say??? Next year I’m getting something fun. Whether it’s a daily fun car like an ATS V or something else, I’m not sure.

I see local a Redline listed for $6800 on CL. Most times I see them between $7k-$10k.
Not too bad especially when you toss on the $500ish GMPP upgrade and get 290hp/340ftlbs at the crank.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by simmode1

What's all this bitching and moaning about us discussing the Mazda 3? Yeah, it's not RWD, but it's worth taking note of it's design language and engine because these things make their way to a RWD car that we DO care about... like the Miata and RX line. Jesus Christ dear god, someone PLEASE hit the Miata with this design stick...

But since we are discussing the 3, it's a damn shame they aren't making the Mazdaspeed 3 anymore. That thing was such an underrated hoot. This new 3 could possibly clean up if they wanted to revive the turbo 3.

Wow lol this is going to sound like I am pulling another Corbic. You do realize that the Focus ST pretty much picked up were the Mazdaspeed 3 left off. In fact the Chassis. suspension and engine design are actually nearly identical. It's mainly exterior bodywork. The only reason I discovered the Fiesta was because I was looking at a FoST. Though when I tested the FiST in comparison it was a no brainer.

I also did drive the newer 3 and absolutely loved it's handling. The bodywork was ok but not nearly as concise and correct as the Fords.
The biggest drawback on the 3 was the elongated nose to Hatch that made th car look funny from the side. Conversely it actually worked on the Sedan version.
If Mazda released the new design with a Turbo'd engine than it would be quite the fun car.
As it it is the FiST tops the hot hatch charts.

P.S. If Toyoburu hadn't not blown it so royally in the engine department I would probably be on that train.

[exitspeed]

https://www.autoblog.com/2017/11/01/...ction-delayed/

Tesla is hemorrhaging money right now. I just do t see them surviving this and the upcoming EV onslaught from around the industry.

This coupled with the video of the Model S owner going on and on about the problems with his car. There’s just not a good outlook.

[exitspeed]

https://www.autoblog.com/2017/11/02/...lue-christmas/

More stats about the fall of the sedan. Luxury sedans are really in the tank.

Man I’m hoping to vent a screaming deal on an ATS(V).

[SimpleS14]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

https://www.autoblog.com/2017/11/01/...ction-delayed/

Tesla is hemorrhaging money right now. I just do t see them surviving this and the upcoming EV onslaught from around the industry.

This coupled with the video of the Model S owner going on and on about the problems with his car. There’s just not a good outlook.

I don't see them surviving long either. The goals they laid out were too lofty IMO. It probably would have been better to focus more on quality vs. quantity with their cars. They probably should drastically scale back the car operations and focus on the commercial and residential battery pack business too.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by SimpleS14

I don't see them surviving long either. The goals they laid out were too lofty IMO. It probably would have been better to focus more on quality vs. quantity with their cars. They probably should drastically scale back the car operations and focus on the commercial and residential battery pack business too.

They need to become a battery supplier and call it a day. It’s never a good business model, NEVER, to over promise and under deliver. Which is what they’ve been doing for quite a while.

And I agree, they should have tried to be like a RR or Bentley where the cars are perfect. I can understand the goal of wanting to be an EV-for-everyone kinda company because Elon wants to change the world, but it’s not going well now.

[feito]

Im sure it's been asked or mentioned before, but let me ask you guys something: would you guys be interested on an rwd entry-level shitbox if it was stupid cheap? i know kia was still offering the rio with rollup windows, shift stick and no a/c (cant remember PS) a few years back and it was stupid cheap (around 6k iirc). Do you guys think there would be a market for something similar but in a rwd format?
I think that would be fun.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

They need to become a battery supplier and call it a day. It’s never a good business model, NEVER, to over promise and under deliver. Which is what they’ve been doing for quite a while.

And I agree, they should have tried to be like a RR or Bentley where the cars are perfect. I can understand the goal of wanting to be an EV-for-everyone kinda company because Elon wants to change the world, but it’s not going well now.

The way they are going Tesla might end up becoming like Fisker.

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

They need to become a battery supplier and call it a day. It’s never a good business model, NEVER, to over promise and under deliver. Which is what they’ve been doing for quite a while.

And I agree, they should have tried to be like a RR or Bentley where the cars are perfect. I can understand the goal of wanting to be an EV-for-everyone kinda company because Elon wants to change the world, but it’s not going well now.

I look at this a little differently. Yes, their business model is unsustainable at this point with their level of quality and resources. But if the goal was to change the world, they may be well on their way to accomplishing that. They took their comparatively meager resources and forced a market shift towards EV and self driving cars. None of the big names were really committed to that until Tesla gave them all the open source research and jumped on that grenade of building a charging network. Now all the big boys are rushing to the table to get into the game.

If making money was Tesla's end goal with their cars, yeah, failure is looming on the horizon. But if changing perception, building brand recognition and presented a line of interoperable GREEN products was the goal, then they knocked the ball out of the park.

Originally Posted by feito

Im sure it's been asked or mentioned before, but let me ask you guys something: would you guys be interested on an rwd entry-level shitbox if it was stupid cheap? i know kia was still offering the rio with rollup windows, shift stick and no a/c (cant remember PS) a few years back and it was stupid cheap (around 6k iirc). Do you guys think there would be a market for something similar but in a rwd format?
I think that would be fun.

Sure, I think we're all interested in that. Sounds like striped down 86.... Didn't they sell one of those a few years back? An 86 RS or something...

Edit: HYG - The 86 RC
https://www.autoblog.com/2012/02/09/...avor-in-japan/

But a brand new stripped down RWD car around $6k? Hmmm... Maybe the reborn Datsun brand is up to the task?

[TheRealSy90]

Honda did the same with the S2K CR, but it was both stripped down and costed more than the regular s2k lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[[240sx]]

Originally Posted by feito

..would you guys be interested on an rwd entry-level shitbox...?

The next generation 240sx? No thanks.


Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by feito

Im sure it's been asked or mentioned before, but let me ask you guys something: would you guys be interested on an rwd entry-level shitbox if it was stupid cheap? i know kia was still offering the rio with rollup windows, shift stick and no a/c (cant remember PS) a few years back and it was stupid cheap (around 6k iirc). Do you guys think there would be a market for something similar but in a rwd format?
I think that would be fun.

I mean, tbh... Locost 7 might be what you're looking for. Or at least the closest you're gonna come to that.

[feito]

Well Im talking of 6k from the year '09, not sure how much that translates to in todays money. And im not talking necessarily about a sports car, just a rwd stripped cheap compact (coupe or sedan). Let's say the rio Im talking about was rwd, everything the same except the layout. Would you guys be interested?

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by [240sx]

The next generation 240sx? No thanks.


Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

no dumb ass! the 350Z! lol

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by feito

Well Im talking of 6k from the year '09, not sure how much that translates to in todays money. And im not talking necessarily about a sports car, just a rwd stripped cheap compact (coupe or sedan). Let's say the rio Im talking about was rwd, everything the same except the layout. Would you guys be interested?

I mean, that's kinda tough for me to say. If we're talking about a mass produced econo-box that just happened to be RWD... I'd kinda be curious, but I'd also be wondering where they cut corners. I mean, I imagine that $6k Rio was a dog in all aspects. I don't know how much chassis, suspension and engine development you can budget in when the car is gonna be sold for that cheap. I'd need to see it first and it would still take some convincing.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by feito

Im sure it's been asked or mentioned before, but let me ask you guys something: would you guys be interested on an rwd entry-level shitbox if it was stupid cheap? i know kia was still offering the rio with rollup windows, shift stick and no a/c (cant remember PS) a few years back and it was stupid cheap (around 6k iirc). Do you guys think there would be a market for something similar but in a rwd format?
I think that would be fun.

I think that’s what we’ve all been waiting for. The 86’s ONLY disadvantage is it’s powerpoant. Hell even if it would have had an underpowered Turbo in it I think it would have went over better because it could be modded so well.

The IDX was Nissans promise of such a car that was met with incredible enthusiasm and great acclaim...and they totally squandered it and pissed on us directly (I do take it very personally. I’m aware that’s not healthy) by carting this thing out to car shows, doing a Jay Leno’s Garage, etc etc and then scraping the whole thing out of the blue. Hell even the designer was told it was green lit.

Moral of the story is I don’t think any of us have any real faith that we’re going to get exactly what we want.

The other thing is most of us are older now, more mature. And the look and power of the Mustang is more appealing.

Originally Posted by simmode1

If making money was Tesla's end goal with their cars, yeah, failure is looming on the horizon. But if changing perception, building brand recognition and presented a line of interoperable GREEN products was the goal, then they knocked the ball out of the park.

The answer is, it was both.

One of those answers makes him feel good and helps him get a better night sleep. It’s very virtuous. He has definitely changed the world. Something very few people can say. On the other hand, Tesla Motor Company is a sinkin ship. I’ve already posted the numerous reasons why, but the main reason is it seems Elon is a better visionary than he is a business man.

I do also want to say, he didn’t invent the EV or EV technology. He packaged it better. Well he packaged it in a good looking box with major quality issues. That was enough for the enthusiasts. It’s not enough for the masses.

And finally, until EV technology has a MAJOR breakthrough (there are many on the horizon) that brings the cost down, EVs won’t be for the masses. Most people simply don’t care that much and certainly not enough to pay tens of thousands more for a car. If the government EV incentives go away, they won’t sell. And that’s not opinion, it’s fact. When Government incentives aren’t great enough or offered at all EV sales go to almost zero. That has been proven around the world over and over.

/Friday morn rant

[exitspeed]

And right on cue.

https://www.autoblog.com/2017/11/03/...nades-opinion/

“How soon before the Tesla bubble is burst?”